Found this interesting thread on an MJ board:

Battle of the failed comebacks: Prince's Rave vs Invincible? | MYMJJFORUM (boards.net)

Some interesting comments. Looks like Rave has a pretty bad name universally, but I can definitely see the paralells between the two albums. MJ's Invincible was about as divisive amongst MJ fans as Rave was in the Prince fanbase. And they were both attempts at reintroducing the artists to the commerical pop scene of the late 90s/early 00s. Both projects underperformed and were ultimately hampered by record company poltiics.

I actually think both albums aren't as bad as folks say, with some legit great tracks and very few clunkers. For Prince especially, Rave is a much more rewarding listen than later, more successful comeback albums like Musicology or 3121 that just happened to come along at the right time when the industry was prepared to embrace Prince again.

I think both Rave and Invincible could've been a lot more successful and better received if they'd had a bigger push from their labels and more single releases.

[Edited 11/28/20 9:28am]

If we're voting here based on the albums as they exist, I'm going w/ Invincible all the way. It's too long, and some songs, like Lost Children, need to get lost altogether, but the beats are great, he was in fine voice, and it was an overall good if familiar listen.

Rave is too safe, too canned, and lacking most of the life and energy I look for in music.

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

I believe a lot of the problem with Rave was the imagery - blue jump suit and braids was a bit of a strange choice - I actually prefer the Ultimate Rave cover though! Also the choice of a ballads as singles was a bad choice too (Greatest Romance/Man O' War). He also started to becme a bit sanctimonius and preachy around this time too, and that puts a lot of people off. He learned to tone it done for Musicology and 3121 (a bit). Prettyman woulda been cool as a single (even though it was a hidden track!). So Far So Pleased would of been the best choice for single but i think there were problems with Gwen's record label.

I've never heard Invincible so can't comment there.

[Edited 11/28/20 10:36am]

I seem to remember a Q&A session, where Femi Jiya said he tried to get Prince to listen to "Butterflies" but he wouldn't.

Mintchip said:

If we're voting here based on the albums as they exist, I'm going w/ Invincible all the way. It's too long, and some songs, like Lost Children, need to get lost altogether, but the beats are great, he was in fine voice, and it was an overall good if familiar listen.

Rave is too safe, too canned, and lacking most of the life and energy I look for in music.

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

If MJ was innocent (which all the facts point towards) then he has every right to release a song called The Lost Children.

Fiona01 said:

Mintchip said:

If we're voting here based on the albums as they exist, I'm going w/ Invincible all the way. It's too long, and some songs, like Lost Children, need to get lost altogether, but the beats are great, he was in fine voice, and it was an overall good if familiar listen.

Rave is too safe, too canned, and lacking most of the life and energy I look for in music.

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

If MJ was innocent (which all the facts point towards) then he has every right to release a song called The Lost Children.

He was proven innocent in a court of law. Twice. F-off with the unsubstantiated allegations. This thread is about music. Period.

Mintchip said:

ufoclub said:

Mintchip said:

alphastreet said:

PatrickS77 said:

Fiona01 said:

Mintchip said:

If we're voting here based on the albums as they exist, I'm going w/ Invincible all the way. It's too long, and some songs, like Lost Children, need to get lost altogether, but the beats are great, he was in fine voice, and it was an overall good if familiar listen.

Rave is too safe, too canned, and lacking most of the life and energy I look for in music.

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

If MJ was innocent (which all the facts point towards) then he has every right to release a song called The Lost Children.

I don't think anyone has the right to release The Lost Children, it's like crime against humanity bad, but you may have a point.

RODSERLING said:

Mintchip said:

If we're voting here based on the albums as they exist, I'm going w/ Invincible all the way. It's too long, and some songs, like Lost Children, need to get lost altogether, but the beats are great, he was in fine voice, and it was an overall good if familiar listen.

Rave is too safe, too canned, and lacking most of the life and energy I look for in music.

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

Do you only know what the Lost children is About?

Eh. It's about me skipping the song as quick as I can, before someone else hears? It's about MJ sitting in a tree, and thinking how dope children's chorus' are? It's probably about war refugees or runaways os something but I'm not about to listen to that shit or read the lyrics so I'm just guessing.

PatrickS77 said:

Mintchip said:

That said, I cannot stomach Michael Jackson in a post Leaving Neverland world. Turn the channel, and delete the tracks at the first sound of his voice. How dare he? Even if you don't believe the accusations, to write and release a song like Lost Children, given his history? Fuck that.

Sheep. You don't deserve him.

I don't know if I'm a sheep if I'm the only person on the thread with this point of view, but you might be right. You are definitely right on this: I didn't do anything to deserve The Lost Children, or Leaving Neverland, or any of the straight up horror scenes I've got burned into my head from that documentary. That, I truly didn't deserve.

alphastreet said:

The Lost Children is in my top 20 MJ songs for real. No apologies.

Mintchip said:

PatrickS77 said:

Mintchip said: Sheep. You don't deserve him.

I don't know if I'm a sheep if I'm the only person on the thread with this point of view, but you might be right. You are definitely right on this: I didn't do anything to deserve The Lost Children, or Leaving Neverland, or any of the straight up horror scenes I've got burned into my head from that documentary. That, I truly didn't deserve.

uh, Didn't you have to go out of your way to seek out that doc? Assumedly you weren't strapped down Clockwork Orange style... it was made more explicit than any scene in its contents that it was a lurid hit-piece take-down on Michael Jackson... you'd basically have to already have to have some semblance of a belief that he's a complete and total monster to even be tangentially interested in that shockporn....
.
That being said, doing a doc so many years after his transition, after multiple lawsuits thrown out prior to the doc, lawsuits thrown out after the doc, dude going through a trial and being found not guilty when the court of public opinion already convicted him ten years prior... decades upon decades of theoretical "evidence" that should thereotically exist, except it doesn't.... 2 "sources" in all those years... are molesters of that supposed variety known for their tacit restraint?
.

And here you are, about to clock-in post #5 on a subject you claim repels you.... k.

Between the two I prefer Invincible. Even though I think it's way to long. I think MJ's albums from the ninetes onwards were way too long.

For me the same is true of Rolling Stones albums and Paul McCartney albums from the nineties onwards

Henaz said:

Both are similar because they are TWO mainstream Icons grasping at straws to hold onto that mainstream success. Now obviously MJ was the bigger ICON but he also had the most "baggage" to fight through. Though PRINCE had the whole name change thing where he lost the mainstream because most thought he was totally insane for the whole symbol thing, and looking back at some of those WB and Prince battles, I mean that nonsense with the Billboard magazine battle, was pretty ridiculous. The whole I will release this but not this and I am a symbol and PRINCE is dead but now here in 1999 with RAVE Prince is the Producer? As for MJ I cant be as knowledgeable with that because I was a moderate fan, I liked everything up to BAD and then HISTORY was spotty with the new stuff and then this album after a six year wait was to me not that great a record but also it was just an artist grapsing but that is where it is similar to RAVE. Prince was definitely grasping here because all of a sudden he was doing a one off deal but arista was footing all the bills and promo but you cant do PROMO for someone who is not cooperating with the PROMO the fact that Prince was not really behind this record shows, he got bored it seemed, doing interviews on TRL ? what? if that is not grasping at an audience you dont have anyway what was he thinking? Prince on TRL is like having TRUMP talk about diversity at a church in Harlem. It was cringe worthy when Prince did this and honestly the album also suffers. It to me is his weakest, with the exception of NEWS this is the album i pull out the least. Tons of filler and bad duets and guest appearances to me nothing memorable at all. Factor in he still had the symbol, this is only about three years since that whole deal, he still was all over media about that and doing interviews he was just finishing up CB and that debacle, so I think the label was even wary and then at some point it seemed PRINCE just stopped it and did some euro promotiion did nothing in the states after the first single did nothing. The main trouble with this album is it really had no strong single at all, and the guest spots of EVE and Sheryl and GWEN none of those were memorable so it was a mess, coming at a time because it was 1999 PRINCE could have had a resurgence it seemed that his old song 1999 did more business than anything new he did. So i am not surprised that this album did nothing because PRINCE did nothing for it lets be honest, and it was not that strong a record at all. Look at PRINCE five years later for the Musicology era now that too was not a "Commercial" album BUT Prince did the promo and toured like a madman for it, he also was PRINCE calm talking not preaching labels or bringing Larry around or having this bizarre look, it was almost like he looked at RAVE and said what the hell was I thinking. So I would say both are failed, but MJ was a bigger ICON and more to lose, for PRINCE he really did not care it was turn the page for him, in fact I am sure when RAVE came out he was three albums down the line in creating. As far as albums do I like better, both have a lot of filler, like a lot of 90's albums MORE is LESS quality it seems, lets fill up the CD even if the songs are not that good was a big thing in that era because of the Price of CDS. I cant fairly say what album i think is better or worse being a bigger PRINCE fan by far, I will say the biggest letdown was RAVE, I thought it was going to be better and it was at times a real mess of a record.

Great thread and great insightful comments. I go with Invincible by far as, though both had strong closing songs "Prettyman" vs "Threatened", Invincible starts off with 7 straight JOINTS that you can listen to without skipping (and yes, the 2nd half of that album is mostly mediocre filler). With Rave, you're skipping around from the start...

MattyJam said:

RODSERLING said:

ufoclub said:

I seem to remember a Q&A session, where Femi Jiya said he tried to get Prince to listen to "Butterflies" but he wouldn't.

And why?

"Why?" indeed. We were both saying "But it's so good!" (This was at the 2002 "Xenophobia" celebration).

Femi said it was very hard to get Prince to listen to anything hyped, much less by Michael Jackson, but of course, maybe he checked things out on his own.

Rave for me, because I love Prince and have always been a Prince fan. I liked some of Michael's music too, but when it came between choosing Prince or Michael, Prince wins hands down, every time, no contest.