MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

I don't see how Beyoncé does it more than any other artist if anything it's her fans. But mj had the same type of fans I remember a video of the bad tour edited to show people fainting and people holding up signs that mj is god. Other than that fair enough on the rap music tip.

Come on, you can't hold that against people

Maybe... if you didn't act like Beyonce was above reproach by taking jabs at Michael Jackson and other artists every time Beyonce is rationally critiqued, folks would not categoraize you as a Beyonce stan. You constantly deflect and come up with baseless justifications for her questionable antics.

MotownSubdivision said:

BTW am I the only one who didn't care for James Corden as host? He wasn't terrible but he was more annoying than funny and many of his attempts at humor ruined the flow of the show for me. Between him and LL as host, I'll take LL every time. I've never understood the hate he gets.

He was more entertaining than LL. Never watched carpool karoke. Im kinda iffy on him overall.

if arse kisser is in the dictionary...no words are needed ... just a picture of adele

mjscarousal said:

PurpleMusic07 said:

I never thought I'd find myself defending Beyonce lol, but seriously go listen to Lemonade. It is one of the most honest, least self absorded pieces of music that I've heard from contemporary artist in a while. She really did any amazing job on it - including the accompanying film. I'm not sure if she was robbed of album of the year, I can't debate that either way. But I will say that the "flaws" that were mentioned (singing about her money, how perfect things are etc...) is not a theme of her current project. It's present in a way, but it's not in your face.

You seriously cannot be serious with this?

How is it honest with 72 writers? She didn't write any of the music. I listened to songs and I was not impressed and how is "I slay slay slay" not self absorbed? Also, Jay Z exposed the whole Lemonade project on TIDAL by leaking a mix track in which he rapped about how it was just a PR stunt,which I already knew without him leaking a mix tape.

Lemonade was a narcisstic PR stunt. It was never about the music. She used her marriage rumors as a way to drive PR for the album. If it was an honest adaptation of how she really felt, she would have wrote it herself. I mean REALLY think about it, Beyonce proudly sings songs about Jay Z cheating on her with a big smile and Jay Z is smiling right along Beyonce even had the audacity to rub her pregnant belly and sing a song at the Grammys about her cheating husband, and you think her album was honest and not self absorbed? Lol

[Edited 2/14/17 11:17am]

Dammit and again I find myself defending beyonce lol

In all seriousness re: the 72 writers, Lemonade expresses the human experience in a very identifiable way. I said the album was honest, I never said it was her truth if that makes sense. It's an honest expression, it lacks pretense. I can identify with what she is expressing. Thats important to me when I listen to music and albums. Whether all the tracks on the album are her personal experiences or not, it is not a self absorbed project on it's own. It is, imo, a very well done and cohesive concept album. In addition, I dont think it's necessary for an artist to write all of their own work. I prefer it sure, but I think it takes skill to know and concede when someone else can express your feelings or thoughts through language better than you can. Clearly there is some of that going on with Lemonade. No she didn't write all the songs, but she skillfully selected them as well as her collaborators. I've got to commend that. I'd rather hear x songwriter write a well written song about how Beyonce or someone else is feeling that listen to a nonwriter sing some bullshit just for the sake of them saying they wrote it. Every singer isn't a writer, and every writer can't sing. Everyone has their place and role.

PR stunt or not (I'm not going to argue with you there cause clearly there is some of that going on), listen to the album on it's on as a body of work. It's GOOD.

[Edited 2/14/17 12:50pm]

mjscarousal said:

Maybe... if you didn't act like Beyonce was above reproach by taking jabs at Michael Jackson and other artists every time Beyonce is rationally critiqued, folks would not categoraize you as a Beyonce stan. You constantly deflect and come up with baseless justifications for her questionable antics.

I dont act like shes beyond reproach I simply post my thoughts some positive some negative. I respect anyone who really puts work in their craft and she clearly does that more than anyone on the scene today. In terms of work ethic and giving a shit I dont see anyone today who comes nowhere near that. As far as her music is concerned I like some of her songs but I was pleasantly impressed and surprised with lemonade. I ony compare her to other artist to prove these points and compare her to mj and prince etc. because on this forum everyone familar with them. When beyonce's name comes up for the most part I dont care but you post essays upon essays ragging on her everytime shes brought up and I feel that is unjustifed and just hating you clearly cant stand her guts. So I just say some stuff in defense its not all that serious to me I just like fairness.

jjhunsecker said:

PurpleMusic07 said:

I never thought I'd find myself defending Beyonce lol, but seriously go listen to Lemonade. It is one of the most honest, least self absorded pieces of music that I've heard from contemporary artist in a while. She really did any amazing job on it - including the accompanying film. I'm not sure if she was robbed of album of the year, I can't debate that either way. But I will say that the "flaws" that were mentioned (singing about her money, how perfect things are etc...) is not a theme of her current project. It's present in a way, but it's not in your face.

I want to hear the whole thing, just to see what everyone is praising, and perhaps what am I missing...the songs I've heard, like on the Grammys, I kept asking "Where is the chorus ?", as they just seemed to be verses that meandered. I didn't hear any "hooks"...And I consider "Crazy in Love" to be one of the best songs of the 2000s, and liked the catchiness of many of the Destiny's Child hits.

Do listen to it. The songs she performed on the grammys were not performed in full.

mjscarousal said:

paisleypearl said:

mjscarousal said: It's practically a satire of the new political correctness, like maybe she was afraid there'd be riots in the streets, us crazy Americans and all.

It wasn't just Adele though. There were other celebrities defending Beyonce on twitter and showing her pity. She has 20 fuqing grammies for crying out loud. Its exhausting and nauseating how people go on and on and on and on about Beyonce like she the only human being on earth that matters.

Its exhausting and nauseating how do you keep crying about everything related with Beyonce, your hate obsession it's too much, shut up already.

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I personally am not seeing what impact Lemonade has had on culture that wasn't already present. And even so Beyonce could've made any old album about any old superficial thing she usually sings about and I doubt things would be any different than they are now.

But the thing is even you don't see what's so special about lemonade look at 25 that album was lackluster and really is riding the wave of 21. 21 was a great album she had (set fire to the rain, someone like you, rumour has it, rolling in the deep etc.) that album had bangers and Adele deserved everything that year but 25 besides showing no growth musically or lyrically the music was just bland and not as good critics resoundingly weren't enthused by this album and on the other hand lemonade was nearly every critics choice for album of the year last year. So its funny how people on this forum say how everyone's praising Beyoncé because of who she is and she overrated and undeserved of the awards she has. When Adele actually swept the Grammys for that exact reason.

I'm with you, how some people here say that Lemonade is nothing special but they don't say the same about 25 which is even less special.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

But the thing is even you don't see what's so special about lemonade look at 25 that album was lackluster and really is riding the wave of 21. 21 was a great album she had (set fire to the rain, someone like you, rumour has it, rolling in the deep etc.) that album had bangers and Adele deserved everything that year but 25 besides showing no growth musically or lyrically the music was just bland and not as good critics resoundingly weren't enthused by this album and on the other hand lemonade was nearly every critics choice for album of the year last year. So its funny how people on this forum say how everyone's praising Beyoncé because of who she is and she overrated and undeserved of the awards she has. When Adele actually swept the Grammys for that exact reason.

I'm not even saying 25 should have won or that it was a great album. It was lackluster and I've thought that ever since actually buying it when it came out and not revisiting it since the first listen. Me being anti-Beyonce doesn't necessarily mean I'm pro-Adele. The bottom line however is that Adele won. I welcome humility and appreciate her honesty but there's such a thing as being too humble which she was. It wouldn't have been such a big deal had she taken the stage, said her thanks and acknowledged that she thinks Beyonce should have won but she cranked her modesty to 11 and pandered to the audience, crying and rambling on about how she wasn't worthy and making out Beyonce to be some perfect goddess, didn't she even say Beyonce was "the light" or something along those lines? It was absolutely ridiculous and painful to watch Adele tear herself, the winner, down just to build up the Beyonce, the loser. Instead of basking in what should have been her moment, Adele turned all the attention and spotlight to someone who doesn't need anymore spotlight on her. And what was the point of breaking the award in half? Just give Beyonce the whole thing if you truly thought she deserved it. People likely would complain about Beyonce losing anyway but Adele's sobby ass-kissing made things far worse. [Edited 2/14/17 8:11am]

You're so right about this, just take your Grammy and be glad those people regard your album as the best for 2016. Besides, she sounds like fake, it des not sound so sincere. It was made just for the show,that's it.

nextedition said:

mjscarousal said:

It wasn't just Adele though. There were other celebrities defending Beyonce on twitter and showing her pity. She has 20 fuqing grammies for crying out loud. Its exhausting and nauseating how people go on and on and on and on about Beyonce like she the only human being on earth that matters.

Its even more exhausting to keep seeing you post about beyonce over and over and over again. Wow, do you ever think not of beyonce? You are obsessed with her.

Right? sick and tired of her hatred against Beyoncé.

mjscarousal said:

Musicslave said:

-

-

I think people fear the backlash of the so-called "beehive". They've made headlines before concerning their god Beyonce or Oshun or whoever she was channeling this time. Geesh!

I think it is most definitly that as well but it was interesting to see celebrities going out of their way to show pity to Beyonce when Beyonce has 22 grammys. There is no reason to pity her when she has been awarded generously and recognized throughout her career. She is literally every where and always obsessively fond over in the media. So why would she need sympathy? There is a psychology behind the reason why people react the way they do to Beyonce. Why people treat her like she is a deity that is above reproach. Its super creepy. The communal reinforcement effect and group think with this obsessive pandering to Beyonce is super creepy and purposeful. It is gotten out of hand. I saw some posts from her fans that was actually calling her a "god" after her performance.

[Edited 2/14/17 8:37am]

I agree with you in that, it's just over the top.

heathilly said:

Musicslave said:

-

I'm not surprised to hear that. You're always going to have a few nuts out there that literally make idols out of their Pop idols. This is nothing new. I think the difference is she seems to relish it more than the average artist.

-

As far as celebrities goes, they are part of the larger problem you so often speak of. Entitlement. They're only reinforcing her sense of entitlement.

This is no different than Mj floating a 100 ft statue of himself down the river than making that nazi inspired video. All pop people have some narcistic self affiriming shit to them its literally part of the job of being a pop star. And If a few crazy wierdos go along with it (I believe most of these people are actually just joking playing along casually) than so be it.

Prince was not different at all, he's got all that attiude as well. People like Stevie Wonder and Dylan and Cohen, well they really are in another bag.

mjscarousal said:

CynicKill said:

She did muster up some tears during Adele's acceptance speech.

You gotta be impressed by that!

Beyonce was crying because she lost.

All Beyonce songs focus on her, how much money she has, how she has the perfect marriage, perfect children, riches, life style, how people should bow down to her, how she is the queen, how she is better than everybody, how we all are peasants Her performances and music videos focus on this same grandioso image she has about herself. Its obnoxious and revolting. What is sad is that her narcisstism is celebrated.

If Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson had walked on that stage with a crown on their head with a bunch of woman dressed like peasants bow dowing at them on stage the media would have crucified them! I am tired of this demonic creepy idol worship proganda when it comes to Beyonce. Its blasepmous and its not right and I will always call it out.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:00am]

God, Prince was the same especially in the 80´s i don't see you complaining about it, not, right, because you like Prince.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

In total agreement ! These aspects of her personality and music and performances really annoy me

Besides being a mediocre talent and her bland music, Beyonce is not a likable person.

She doesn't have an interesting personality and she comes across as phony, when you add her narcisstic complex, she is just very off putting.

At least with Rihanna, she is actually likable. One might not think she is all that talented but at least she is down to earth, has charisma and seems like an overall fun loving person. I get why people like Rihanna as a person.With Beyonce, the adulation her fans have for her is not based on her as a person and more so this "idealized image of herself" that the media and her PR team have constructed. Her adulation doesn't feel real or geniune and more so cult like.

Who cares about their personality, we're talkin about their music, besides Rihanna seems as very bitchy she doesn't seem as a nice person.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

That's part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of hip-hop music, and I disliked those aspects in Prince and in Michael Jackson. But Beyonce really rubs it in people's faces

Michael Jackson was gracious. He always talked about how his collaboraters helped out in his videos, albums, etc. He always acknowledged his influences and not implied he invented anything. He never made albums after albums discussing how greater he was than everybody else. In fact, he was the exact opposite. He always made charity songs, songs about healing the world, social issues, children and humanitarism. His videos and performances also focused on these issues as well and that is largely why he was loved all around the globe because of his geniune humanilty and vunerability for other people. He didn't just sing about it, he actually did advocacy work in poverish countries, hospitals, and areas that were in need.

Beyonce suffers from narcisstic personality disorder. ALSO, MJ did not have those statues built. Those countries built those statues to honor him. Beyonce fans are delusional, always making excuses for anything she does. Beyonce is narcisstic....period, stop bringing other artists into the conversation to deflect or justify that. I wouldn't waste my time going back in forth with these Beyonce stans.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:56am]

That's not true at all, Sony had those statues built for the promotion of the album with MJ approval.

MotownSubdivision said:

BTW am I the only one who didn't care for James Corden as host? He wasn't terrible but he was more annoying than funny and many of his attempts at humor ruined the flow of the show for me. Between him and LL as host, I'll take LL every time. I've never understood the hate he gets.

You're right, i don't like that guy much.

214 said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael Jackson was gracious. He always talked about how his collaboraters helped out in his videos, albums, etc. He always acknowledged his influences and not implied he invented anything. He never made albums after albums discussing how greater he was than everybody else. In fact, he was the exact opposite. He always made charity songs, songs about healing the world, social issues, children and humanitarism. His videos and performances also focused on these issues as well and that is largely why he was loved all around the globe because of his geniune humanilty and vunerability for other people. He didn't just sing about it, he actually did advocacy work in poverish countries, hospitals, and areas that were in need.

Beyonce suffers from narcisstic personality disorder. ALSO, MJ did not have those statues built. Those countries built those statues to honor him. Beyonce fans are delusional, always making excuses for anything she does. Beyonce is narcisstic....period, stop bringing other artists into the conversation to deflect or justify that. I wouldn't waste my time going back in forth with these Beyonce stans.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:56am]

That's not true at all, Sony had those statues built for the promotion of the album with MJ approval.

214 dropping straight bombs (facts). But on this one you guys are both right some place did build like like shrines and statues to MJ. And MJ clearly had statues built for the history album.

[Edited 2/14/17 13:33pm]

PurpleMusic07 said:

mjscarousal said:

You seriously cannot be serious with this?

How is it honest with 72 writers? She didn't write any of the music. I listened to songs and I was not impressed and how is "I slay slay slay" not self absorbed? Also, Jay Z exposed the whole Lemonade project on TIDAL by leaking a mix track in which he rapped about how it was just a PR stunt,which I already knew without him leaking a mix tape.

Lemonade was a narcisstic PR stunt. It was never about the music. She used her marriage rumors as a way to drive PR for the album. If it was an honest adaptation of how she really felt, she would have wrote it herself. I mean REALLY think about it, Beyonce proudly sings songs about Jay Z cheating on her with a big smile and Jay Z is smiling right along Beyonce even had the audacity to rub her pregnant belly and sing a song at the Grammys about her cheating husband, and you think her album was honest and not self absorbed? Lol

[Edited 2/14/17 11:17am]

Dammit and again I find myself defending beyonce lol

In all seriousness re: the 72 writers, Lemonade expresses the human experience in a very identifiable way. I said the album was honest, I never said it was her truth if that makes sense. It's an honest expression, it lacks pretense. I can identify with what she is expressing. Thats important to me when I listen to music and albums. Whether all the tracks on the album are her personal experiences or not, it is not a self absorbed project on it's own. It is, imo, a very well done and cohesive concept album. In addition, I dont think it's necessary for an artist to write all of their own work. I prefer it sure, but I think it takes skill to know and concede when someone else can express your feelings or thoughts through language better than you can. Clearly there is some of that going on with Lemonade. No she didn't write all the songs, but she skillfully selected them as well as her collaborators. I've got to commend that. I'd rather hear x songwriter write a well written song about how Beyonce or someone else is feeling that listen to a nonwriter sing some bullshit just for the sake of them saying they wrote it. Every singer isn't a writer, and every writer can't sing. Everyone has their place and role.

PR stunt or not (I'm not going to argue with you there cause clearly there is some of that going on), listen to the album on it's on as a body of work. It's GOOD.

[Edited 2/14/17 12:50pm]

No worries, I actually think some of the points you made are fair I actually agree with the boldly 100%

A singer doesn't have to write all their music in order to make good music, AGREE

However, critics are calling Beyonce an artist and visionary. They are praising Lemonade as a work that Beyonce is the mastermind behind. Its not being marketed as "the truth of the human experience", it was marketed as a piece of work that reflect Beyonces relationship with her husband. That is misleading and should be noted as misleading especially if she is being praised for being personal when the music is not a reflection of her own personal experiences although she is marketing it as such. I don't care that she doesn't write her music but its a problem when people praise her for writing music, its a problem when she gets awarded for it.

I respect what you took away from the album and that you enjoyed. However,I promise you I listen to the songs on Lemonade, and I promise you the album is overrated and not that good. I l listened to all the songs on Anti as well. To me, Anti is way better than Lemonade, even lyrically it is better. It is a more artistic and creative effort of music and production. The only song I recall that was good on Lemonade was the song with Jack White and I honestly think the only reason why I like it is because I like Jack White and it sounds like a Jack White song. However, its not a song that I would find myself listening to again.

IMO, the album was hyped because of the visuals and PR stunt around it focusing on the Carters "marriage issues" not because of the music. However, If you think the music is good that is your opinion. I personally think the music is forgettable.

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Come on, you can't hold that against people

Do you remember when mj was talking about hating to preform and he's like oh there's 5000 faints every night. I'm like nigga please I don't know if that was a humble brag or just conveying information.

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

Do you remember when mj was talking about hating to preform and he's like oh there's 5000 faints every night. I'm like nigga please I don't know if that was a humble brag or just conveying information.

I never even heard about this.

Because that's not true. He said he hated to go on tour, but loved to perform.

mjscarousal said:

paisleypearl said:

mjscarousal said: It's practically a satire of the new political correctness, like maybe she was afraid there'd be riots in the streets, us crazy Americans and all.

It wasn't just Adele though. There were other celebrities defending Beyonce on twitter and showing her pity. She has 20 fuqing grammies for crying out loud. Its exhausting and nauseating how people go on and on and on and on about Beyonce like she the only human being on earth that matters.

Yeah, it's pathetic how that screecher with her mostly unlistenable music got 22 Grammys while a true artist like David Bowie got 1 Grammy (for a fucking video) in his lifetime. But not as pathetic as Adele was at the Grammys and the collective pandering and kneeling in the dirt to show the reverance to that rather bland person (Beyonce... but after that showing I also lost a bit of respect for Adele, just as she was gaining a bit of ground). I really do not understand what the supposedly big deal is about her. But then again, I find most of these current, so called, artists rather bland.

[Edited 2/14/17 14:38pm]

RUSSIA

June 25, 2011 in Yekaterinburg (Russia) opened a monument to the King of Pop AND MJ has a wall dedicated to him there as well.

https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-monument-to-michael-jackson-image20050368

America- New Hampshire (there are more in US but just listing this one cause its rare)

http://theonyxswami.deviantart.com/art/Michael-Jackson-Statue-301530021

China

A bronze figure of Michael, arms outstretched with a smile on his face, is an oft-visited feature of the Guangzhou Sculpture Park in Guangzhou City, China. The singer/dancer extraordinaire visited a nearby town in the same province in 1987. After Michael’s death, the people rallied together and raised the funds needed to build a statue.

The opening ceremony was also used as an opportunity to raise money for charity and spread Michael’s message of love. The statue was sculpted by Zeng Kang Lu, who managed to uncannily capture the likeness of the entertainer. The Chinese and Hong Kong fan clubs later commissioned a copy of the statue and had it placed in the Overland Park Arboretum Botanical Garden in Kansas.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2015/01/14/10-interesting-mj-statues-you-wont-believe/

Rome, Italy

Rome honored Michael Jackson with a statue. Michael wanted to build an amusement park in that province of Rome, which inspired them to build the statue. The statue is an accessible, smiling Michael, casually scratching his head

Hong Kong

In 1987, The Gloved One visited TVB City in Hong Kong and met singer Alex To, who commissioned a sculpture after Michael’s death. The copper statue was erected in Shan Yuan Temple in Tuen Mun, Hong Kong.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2015/01/14/10-interesting-mj-statues-you-wont-believe/

Austria

Michael is in Landesbahnpark in Mistelbach an der Zaya, Austria. The project was the brainchild of fan Martina Kainz and funded by donations.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2015/01/14/10-interesting-mj-statues-you-wont-believe/

UK,London

Michael Jackson statue unveiled outside Craven Collage Stadium

Fulham owner Mohammed al Fayed says football fans can "go to hell" if they do not like the new Michael Jackson statue at Craven Cottage.

Rio, Brazil

With Michael’s untimely passing in 2009, the mayor of Rio promptly announced that a memorial would be created for him in Rio. That was on 26th June, the very next day after Michael’s death. Even in his own country, he was not accorded such a swift, lasting honour.Santa Marta isn’t the largest favela, or even the most famous, but it is certainly special. To the people of Santa Marta Michael Jackson is a hero. He is also a tourist attraction now, one that brings people from all over the world to visit their community, and adds a few dollars to their income.Michael filmed his first ‘They Don’t Care About Us’ video in the Santa Marta favela of Rio de Janeiro and in the city of Salvador.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2015/01/14/10-interesting-mj-statues-you-wont-believe/

This is just to name a few. MJ has many statues all over the world. All these locations the president or city officials paid money for the statue to be made. Sony DID NOT make any of these statues.

I love receipts! Don't you?

[Edited 2/14/17 14:38pm]

PatrickS77 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said: I never even heard about this.

Because that's not true. He said he hated to go on tour, but loved to perform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IzRz1pD6M

2.30 -2.40

Mj (Its like 5000 faints everynight)

Come again?

PatrickS77 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said: I never even heard about this.

Because that's not true. He said he hated to go on tour, but loved to perform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IzRz1pD6M

2.30 -2.40

Mj (Its like 5000 faints everynight)

Come again?

heathilly said:

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6IzRz1pD6M

2.30 -2.40

Mj (Its like 5000 faints everynight)

Come again?

Sounded like a casual statement to me.

I did say it made wonder humble brag or just conveying info.