2freaky4church1 said:

Let me guess, no classical or jazz?

>

I read an article that asked if The Grammy's actually like good music.

It stated no classical work has ever won in major catagories and Esperanza Spalding and Herbie Hancock are the only jazz artists to ever win in major catagories.

CynicKill said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree with both of these posts. It really cheapened her victory and she reverted attention away from her and place it on Beyonce. If she felt Beyonce deserved AOTY why did she submit 25 for consideration? Why did she break her award in half instead of giving Beyonce the whole award? Its very nauesauting how it seems everytime someone loses to Beyonce they have to ALSO acknowledge Beyonce. Why can't others have their OWN time to shine!? Beyonce has over 20 grammys (and she doesn't even deserve that) ! Adele rightfully won and deserves to be proud of her honor. She didn't have to save face by kissing Beyonce's ass because we all know Beyonce would not have done that for her.

LOL that is so true Beyonce wouldn't have done the same, UNLESS she was consulted that Adele was a forgone conclusion to win. That way it could curry favor for her.

My theory is that they were too quick to over-reward her in the past, and since she was never in any danger of winning major catagories they were all too happy to do so.

Now that she is actually a contender, people point to the shipload of awards she's already won.

I don't see her making anything better than Lemonade in her career so her AOTY prospects are probably over. Not to compare but she's no Solange. I can see her only getting better.

Beyonce is the industry's token Black girl, that is why she is over awarded.

There is no way the Grammy's were going to give Beyonce AOTY. Whether people like Adele or not, the general public does and her impact cannot be denied...it just can't. Adele's 25 was the biggest selling album for two years in a row (2015 and 2016 respectfully) and the album even went diamond for crying out loud! Lemonade was clearly all hype.

Going diamond back to back IS REAL impact. Adele might not be my cup of tea BUT Adele has the receipts to back up her Grammys. 25 might not have been better than 21 but it was still better than Lemonade.

Anti is a way better album than Lemonade. Rihanna is the one that got snubbed not Beyonce. What this year's Grammy's awards tell me is that despite all the awards Beyonce is showered with, she is not taken seriously as an artist by the Grammy commitee and industry elite AND honestly is this really surprising? I am sorry I don't feel sorry for Beyonce she is overrated, bout time she got exposed. Why does the industry hate Rihanna? She is ALWAYS snubbed! I guess there can only be ONE Black woman that gets all the awards? The fact that she wasn't nominated for AOTY and Bieber was, was a slap in the face.

[Edited 2/13/17 9:41am]

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

CynicKill said:

It looks like no one missed boycotters Drake, Justin Beiber, Frank Ocean or Kanye West.

I didn't- all of these people either annoy and/or bore me

jjhunsecker said:

CynicKill said:

It looks like no one missed boycotters Drake, Justin Beiber, Frank Ocean or Kanye West.

I didn't- all of these people either annoy and/or bore me

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

>

I think someone posted that Beyonce's album had 72 writers!

jjhunsecker said:

CynicKill said:

It looks like no one missed boycotters Drake, Justin Beiber, Frank Ocean or Kanye West.

I didn't- all of these people either annoy and/or bore me

>

I have to admit to being mad at Frank Ocean.

I sort of understand his stance but I was getting strong diva vibes from his tumblr post. I think his personality is becoming industry legend and he's only on his second proper. Maybe that's why Miguel doesn't like him?

If anything I would've performed on the show JUST to save my reputation as a performer; an area in which many feels he's lacking.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned. Maybe saving reps have gone out of style with millenials.

mjscarousal said:

Anti is a way better album than Lemonade. Rihanna is the one that got snubbed not Beyonce. What this year's Grammy's awards tell me is that despite all the awards Beyonce is showered with, she is not taken seriously as an artist by the Grammy commitee and industry elite AND honestly is this really surprising? I am sorry I don't feel sorry for Beyonce she is overrated, bout time she got exposed. Why does the industry hate Rihanna? She is ALWAYS snubbed! I guess there can only be ONE Black woman that gets all the awards? The fact that she wasn't nominated for AOTY and Bieber was, was a slap in the face.

[Edited 2/13/17 9:41am]

>

I think Rihanna's reputation will always be tainted by her hit-or-miss reputation as a performer. Most of the Beyonce hype relies on her reliability to excite live. And though its in the eye of the beholder you can't deny that no one currently tries harder to make sure the show is showy. Sure part of it is memorex, but its memorex at the the right times, right in between a herky-jerky dance move and wagging of hefty weave.

Sometimes Rihanna just don't give a f!ck. It can be endearing but still, a lackluster show is a lackluster show.

CynicKill said:

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

>

I think someone posted that Beyonce's album had 72 writers!

excluding samples:

PYCM: 3 writers, 3 producers

Hold UP: 7 writers, 3 producers

Don't Hurt Yourself: 2 writers, 3 producers

Sorry: 3 writers, 4 producers

6 Inch: 7 writers, 5 producers

Daddy Lessons: 4 writers, 3 producers

Love Drought: 3 writers, 2 producers

Sand: 4 writers, 2 producers

Forward: 2 writers, 2 producers

Freedom: 5 writers, 3 producers

All Night: 9 writers, 3 producers

Formation: 4 writers, 3 producers

CynicKill said:

jjhunsecker said:

I didn't- all of these people either annoy and/or bore me

>

I have to admit to being mad at Frank Ocean.

I sort of understand his stance but I was getting strong diva vibes from his tumblr post. I think his personality is becoming industry legend and he's only on his second proper. Maybe that's why Miguel doesn't like him?

If anything I would've performed on the show JUST to save my reputation as a performer; an area in which many feels he's lacking.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned. Maybe saving reps have gone out of style with millenials.

The Grammy folks are saying that when Ocean was on a few years ago, they tried to talk him out of performing that "Forest Gump" song, and to go with something a little more exciting. He insisted on that song, the performance was as dull as dishwater, and he was savaged in the press and on-line. So perhaps he has some beef with the Grammys over that incident.

FullLipsDotNose said:

CynicKill said:

>

I think someone posted that Beyonce's album had 72 writers!

excluding samples:

PYCM: 3 writers, 3 producers

Hold UP: 7 writers, 3 producers

Don't Hurt Yourself: 2 writers, 3 producers

Sorry: 3 writers, 4 producers

6 Inch: 7 writers, 5 producers

Daddy Lessons: 4 writers, 3 producers

Love Drought: 3 writers, 2 producers

Sand: 4 writers, 2 producers

Forward: 2 writers, 2 producers

Freedom: 5 writers, 3 producers

All Night: 9 writers, 3 producers

Formation: 4 writers, 3 producers

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Many Grammy voters see this as "music by comittee". If your ideal artist is Bob Dylan or Stevie Wonder or Paul Simon or The Beatles or Prince, you are probably saying "what the hell is this all about ?"

So I checked Adele's 25 and credits are:

Hello: 2 writers, 1 producer

Send My Love: 3 writers, 2 producers

I Miss You: 2 writers, 1 producer

WWWY: 2 writers, 1 producer

Remedy: 2 writers, 1 producer

WUTB: 2 writers, 1 producer

River Lea: 2 writers, 1 producer

LITD: 2 writers, 1 producer

Million Years Ago: 2 writers, 1 producer

All I Ask: 4 writers, 3 producers

Sweetest Devotion: 2 writers, 1 producer

Can't Let Go: 2 writers, 1 producer

Lay Me Down: 2 writers, 2 producers

WDYLM: 2 writers, 1 producer

-

Unlike Beyoncé, Adele's album doesn't contain any samples. And while both Adele and Beyoncé contributed to their respective albums as songwriters, only Beyoncé also work on hers as a producer.

CynicKill said:

jjhunsecker said:

I didn't- all of these people either annoy and/or bore me

>

I have to admit to being mad at Frank Ocean.

I sort of understand his stance but I was getting strong diva vibes from his tumblr post. I think his personality is becoming industry legend and he's only on his second proper. Maybe that's why Miguel doesn't like him?

If anything I would've performed on the show JUST to save my reputation as a performer; an area in which many feels he's lacking.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned. Maybe saving reps have gone out of style with millenials.

I just read his Tumblr post- very full of himself . Same lack of humilty that Kanye shows. "I'm one of the best alive " ?? Do you think BB King ever said such a thing ? Or Otis Redding ? Or Jimmy Page ? (Maybe Miles did...) A lot of those folks have a huge chip on their shoulders... Not everybody likes every musical act or style ...get over that . They think they're Gods or something ...

jjhunsecker said:

CynicKill said:

>

I have to admit to being mad at Frank Ocean.

I sort of understand his stance but I was getting strong diva vibes from his tumblr post. I think his personality is becoming industry legend and he's only on his second proper. Maybe that's why Miguel doesn't like him?

If anything I would've performed on the show JUST to save my reputation as a performer; an area in which many feels he's lacking.

But maybe I'm just old fashioned. Maybe saving reps have gone out of style with millenials.

I just read his Tumblr post- very full of himself . Same lack of humilty that Kanye shows. "I'm one of the best alive " ?? Do you think BB King ever said such a thing ? Or Otis Redding ? Or Jimmy Page ? (Maybe Miles did...) A lot of those folks have a huge chip on their shoulders... Not everybody likes every musical act or style ...get over that . They think they're Gods or something ...

He did the same thing to Don Henley during the "American Wedding" debacle.

Don said he was very arrogant about the whole thing. like he was doing them a favor by sampling their song. What could've been smoothed over turned into them not allowing him to use the sample. Lack of humility and lack of interest seem to be his achilles heels.

CynicKill said:

CynicKill said:

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

Yep Rihanna has the double whammy of not being a vocalist or a performer people know Beyoncé can sing and she's going give you everything she got. Also anti was overly long and unbalanced. I feel for her she didn't win anything but she was out of her league in all the categories she lost in. [Edited 2/13/17 12:48pm]

Purpose still had no business getting nominated over Anti.

Purpose is one of the most glaring admissions I can think of, ever.

NSYNC, Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears weren't able to pull off AOTY nods even at their heights.

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

True. I actually gave up on the Grammys when SOTT lost out to Joshua Tree . . . 30 years ago. For that same reason.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

You knew she'd put on a spectacle and she apparently didn't disappoint. I didn't see it. She's not the first to emphasize a visual show over the music itself. It works for her.

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

Good point. She lost out to Beck for Album, so you may be on to something. But the "true artist . . . doing all the work" don't always win. See 1987.

[Edited 2/13/17 13:13pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

CynicKill said:

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said: Purpose still had no business getting nominated over Anti.

Purpose is one of the most glaring admissions I can think of, ever.

NSYNC, Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears weren't able to pull off AOTY nods even at their heights.

Actually, the Backstreet Boys were nominated for AoTY at the 2000 Grammys for Millenium.

However, I use this comparison when addressing Taylor winning over Kendrick last year. 1989 is a shallow 1D paint-by-numbers pop album with Taylor Swift's name on it and its content really wasn't any different from the average Britney, Backstreet or NSYNC album.

Taylor winning over Kendrick would be the near equivalent to Backstreet beating out Santana for AoTY in 2000. Them being nominated in the first place is the equivalent to Bieber being in contention for the award this year.

[Edited 2/13/17 13:40pm]

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Purpose still had no business getting nominated over Anti.

I think Bieber got put in there simply because of who he is but he would be last person to win I know that for a fact.

I felt that way to but if they were just trying to fill up slots then it was such a waste.

But... as I type this I just remembered that apparently the artists now have to submit their own albums for consideration. How does this process work? Does a host of acts submit their albums and the Academy proceeds to make an evaulation on which ones make the cut for nomination?

[Edited 2/13/17 13:33pm]

namepeace said:

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

True. I actually gave up on the Grammys when SOTT lost out to Joshua Tree . . . 30 years ago. For that same reason.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

You knew she'd put on a spectacle and she apparently didn't disappoint. I didn't see it. She's not the first to emphasize a visual show over the music itself. It works for her.

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

Good point. She lost out to Beck for Album, so you may be on to something. But the "true artist . . . doing all the work" don't always win. See 1987.

[Edited 2/13/17 13:13pm]

>

But he lost to true artists doing all the work, on top of sweeping up the country in what felt like somewhat of an inspirational/political wave at the time.

I wanted SOTT to win as much as anyone, but it's hard to get mad at this slight. Now 1984 OTOH. And to a lesser extent we could make the same arguement. And Lionel was a veteran to boot.

2freaky4church1 said:

Adele had like one good cut.

Your statement is a little over the top, there are several good songs in her last album: Hello (although fer from my favorite), Million Years Ago, Send My Love, I Miss You and the best song in the album When We Were Young. I don't think is as good as 21 and therefore to me she does not deserve Album of The Year. Beyoncé deserved with Lemonade which is a much better album than 25; Rihanna was another one with Anti, great album as well.

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

Thank you and I agree with this post 100%

The Grammy's do not take her seriously as an artist because she doesn't write her own music and she relies to much on PR gimmicks instead of making a geniune creative effort on her albums. Can anybody with a straight face say that Lemonade was a personal introspective album with 72 songwriters??? The Grammy's can see through the bullshit. They know she is just chasing grammys and not about the music and the Grammys have made the correct call. Beyonce has not produce a AOTY worthy album.

Does anybody with a functional brain think lyrics like "I got hot sauce in my bag" ""I slay slay slay slay" is worthy of AOTY? Even if she wrote those lyrics it still would not be AOTY worthy The Grammy's have awarded numerous Black artists with AOTY so people need to stop with the faux outrage. On another board we listed all the Black receipients who have won AOTY and I will list some here as well and you are correct Stevie Wonder won AOTY THREE TIMES stop people need to stop with this racist bullshit especially when the singer in question, Beyonce, has won 22 Grammys.

[Edited 2/13/17 13:44pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said: I think Bieber got put in there simply because of who he is but he would be last person to win I know that for a fact.

I felt that way to but if they were just trying to fill up slots then it was such a waste.

But... as I type this I just remembered that apparently the artists now have to submit their own albums for consideration. How does this process work? Does a host of acts submit their albums and the Academy proceeds to make an evaulation on which ones make the cut for nomination?

[Edited 2/13/17 13:33pm]

>

Not sure but its an annoying, lazy process. If your work is eligible it shouldn't have to be submitted. It just lets the academy not have to keep track of what's been released is how I see it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2...-race.html

I simply don't agree with this. I don't think it's a race issue at all. I know this is not the accepted popular opinion these days, but I simply don't think Beyonce is that great. Certainly not on the level of an Aretha or James Brown or Led Zep or the Rolling Stones. I even prefer the music of her "peers", like Lady Gaga or Katy Perry, because their songs are a lot more melodic to my ear. Last night, I preferred Sturgill's performance to Beyonce's, and HE didn't win the big prize. Does that make the Grammy's "anti-White" ??

mjscarousal said:

CynicKill said:

LOL that is so true Beyonce wouldn't have done the same, UNLESS she was consulted that Adele was a forgone conclusion to win. That way it could curry favor for her.

My theory is that they were too quick to over-reward her in the past, and since she was never in any danger of winning major catagories they were all too happy to do so.

Now that she is actually a contender, people point to the shipload of awards she's already won.

I don't see her making anything better than Lemonade in her career so her AOTY prospects are probably over. Not to compare but she's no Solange. I can see her only getting better.

Beyonce is the industry's token Black girl, that is why she is over awarded.

There is no way the Grammy's were going to give Beyonce AOTY. Whether people like Adele or not, the general public does and her impact cannot be denied...it just can't. Adele's 25 was the biggest selling album for two years in a row (2015 and 2016 respectfully) and the album even went diamond for crying out loud! Lemonade was clearly all hype.

Going diamond back to back IS REAL impact. Adele might not be my cup of tea BUT Adele has the receipts to back up her Grammys. 25 might not have been better than 21 but it was still better than Lemonade.

Sales wouldn't have to be a matter when it comes to the Grammys, 25 has sold millions but it's far from great album. Anti and Lemonade are way better.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said: I think Bieber got put in there simply because of who he is but he would be last person to win I know that for a fact.

I felt that way to but if they were just trying to fill up slots then it was such a waste.

But... as I type this I just remembered that apparently the artists now have to submit their own albums for consideration. How does this process work? Does a host of acts submit their albums and the Academy proceeds to make an evaulation on which ones make the cut for nomination?

[Edited 2/13/17 13:33pm]

I know artist and the labels submit the songs for whatever particular category and there album. And I guess which ever album get the mosts vote or which album gets chosen by a committee are nominated to get voted on. I wonder whos voting on this stuff though because kendrick losing twice kanye never winning and though unpopular on this forum lemonade not winning is utterly ridiculous. It just a pattern of marginlation of rnb and rap to their specific corners.