namepeace said:

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

True. I actually gave up on the Grammys when SOTT lost out to Joshua Tree . . . 30 years ago. For that same reason.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

You knew she'd put on a spectacle and she apparently didn't disappoint. I didn't see it. She's not the first to emphasize a visual show over the music itself. It works for her.

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

Good point. She lost out to Beck for Album, so you may be on to something. But the "true artist . . . doing all the work" don't always win. See 1987.

[Edited 2/13/17 13:13pm]

I agree with you EXCEPT if "Sign" had to lose, than it was OK to lose to "The Joshua Tree", which is a GREAT album. It's not like Prince lost to Debbie Gibson or Poison that year

jjhunsecker said:

Let's be real folks : Led Zeppelin never won a Grammy at the height of their career. The Rolling Stones never won Album of the Year. The Beatles only won Album ONCE. Bob Dylan never won AOTY , and neither did Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Donny Hathaway, Curtis Mayfield, The Clash, Bruce Springsteen, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Who, The Allman Brothers, OR Prince...all talents that I believe are much better artists than Beyonce.

I wasn't overly impressed with Beyonce last night- a lot of strutting around looking beautiful and dressed like the Queen of Sheba, but the songs she sang had no real melodies to them, and one seemed like more talking than music. IMHO, she is very overrated today, and I think people are responding more to the "message" than to the "music".

And one of the main reasons I think that she DIDN'T WIN is that many Grammy voters are real musicians ...they look at a Beyonce album and see each song had 12 songwriters listed and 7 producers, and they see this as "music by commitee" , and not necessarily an artist expressing themselves. For those who cry "racism", remember Stevie Wonder won the Album award THREE times in the 1970s, and you can't say it was LESS racist back then. Because Wonder writes and plays almost all of his own music, the Grammy voters see him as a "true artist", who is doing all the work.

I agree with yopu wholeheartedly, with Adele is different, she writes her stuff.

jjhunsecker said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2...-race.html

I simply don't agree with this. I don't think it's a race issue at all. I know this is not the accepted popular opinion these days, but I simply don't think Beyonce is that great. Certainly not on the level of an Aretha or James Brown or Led Zep or the Rolling Stones. I even prefer the music of her "peers", like Lady Gaga or Katy Perry, because their songs are a lot more melodic to my ear. Last night, I preferred Sturgill's performance to Beyonce's, and HE didn't win the big prize. Does that make the Grammy's "anti-White" ??

I agree with you whole heartly, the fact that Beyonce did not win has nothing to do with racism. Lemonade is not a good album period. I saw clips from Beyonce's performance and I felt her performance was pretentious and bland. She relies to much on visuals to compensate for her mediocre music. AGAIN, this is why the Grammy's do not take her seriously and rightfully so. Beyonce is a TOKEN so racism and Beyonce has no business being mentioned in the same sentence with as much ass kissing she gets from the media and establishment PLUZEEEEE. I am SOOOO ready for Beyonce to be EXPOSED for the overrated fraud she is. There are more deserving artists that deserve more recognition.

214 said:

mjscarousal said:

Beyonce is the industry's token Black girl, that is why she is over awarded.

There is no way the Grammy's were going to give Beyonce AOTY. Whether people like Adele or not, the general public does and her impact cannot be denied...it just can't. Adele's 25 was the biggest selling album for two years in a row (2015 and 2016 respectfully) and the album even went diamond for crying out loud! Lemonade was clearly all hype.

Going diamond back to back IS REAL impact. Adele might not be my cup of tea BUT Adele has the receipts to back up her Grammys. 25 might not have been better than 21 but it was still better than Lemonade.

Sales wouldn't have to be a matter when it comes to the Grammys, 25 has sold millions but it's far from great album. Anti and Lemonade are way better.

Yet I can't think of any other reason why Taylor won over Kendrick last year and I think that's the main reason behind Adele's win last night.

I think Beyonce is in the same boat as Hillary Clinton.

Critics really wanted her to win from the nominees listed, and since she didn't win this year she will never win. I'm almost willing to put money on that.

In a way I'm happy Frank and Solange weren't nominated. Just think of the headlines if all three were nominated and lost to Adele and Adele would be up there apologizing to all three of them because she's a fan of them all.

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2...-race.html

I simply don't agree with this. I don't think it's a race issue at all. I know this is not the accepted popular opinion these days, but I simply don't think Beyonce is that great. Certainly not on the level of an Aretha or James Brown or Led Zep or the Rolling Stones. I even prefer the music of her "peers", like Lady Gaga or Katy Perry, because their songs are a lot more melodic to my ear. Last night, I preferred Sturgill's performance to Beyonce's, and HE didn't win the big prize. Does that make the Grammy's "anti-White" ??

I agree with you whole heartly, the fact that Beyonce did not win has nothing to do with racism. Lemonade is not a good album period. I saw clips from Beyonce's performance and I felt her performance was pretentious and bland. She relies to much on visuals to compensate for her mediocre music. AGAIN, this is why the Grammy's do not take her seriously and rightfully so. Beyonce is a TOKEN so racism and Beyonce has no business being mentioned in the same sentence with as much ass kissing she gets from the media and establishment PLUZEEEEE. I am SOOOO ready for Beyonce to be EXPOSED for the overrated fraud she is. There are more deserving artists that deserve more recognition.

Is not a good album, says who? you hate her so much girl. The same tale over and over is getting tired already.

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I felt that way to but if they were just trying to fill up slots then it was such a waste.

But... as I type this I just remembered that apparently the artists now have to submit their own albums for consideration. How does this process work? Does a host of acts submit their albums and the Academy proceeds to make an evaulation on which ones make the cut for nomination?

[Edited 2/13/17 13:33pm]

I know artist and the labels submit the songs for whatever particular category and there album. And I guess which ever album get the mosts vote or which album gets chosen by a committee are nominated to get voted on. I wonder whos voting on this stuff though because kendrick losing twice kanye never winning and though unpopular on this forum lemonade not winning is utterly ridiculous. It just a pattern of marginlation of rnb and rap to their specific corners.

One could point out that a hard rock album has never won either (Led Zep or the Who were never even NOMINATED for AOTY !). Or Country (I consider that Dixie Chicks album more pop than Country, and probably won mainly for its political message). A LOT of music is marginalized. What I've heard of "Lemonade" hasn't impressed me that much (I admit to not having heard the whole album- I'd like to, but it sucks that some streaming services have exclusivity)

CynicKill said:

I think Beyonce is in the same boat as Hillary Clinton.

Critics really wanted her to win from the nominees listed, and since she didn't win this year she will never win. I'm almost willing to put money on that.

In a way I'm happy Frank and Solange weren't nominated. Just think of the headlines if all three were nominated and lost to Adele and Adele would be up there apologizing to all three of them because she's a fan of them all.

But who cares about what the critics think when the general public wanted Adele to win. The PUBLIC felt it was Album of the Year for 2 years in a row. Even if you put the sales to the side, it still was stronger than Lemonade and in the category overall.

Everything is fake and orchestrated by payola instead of the interests of the music buying public. I don't think 25 was the greatest album ever invented but it was the strongest out of the category that it was in and the music buying public obviously thought so as well.

NOW, if Anti was in the nomination then I believe Anti should have won over both TBH. It was a great creative and interesting work of art.

.

People in here hyping Lemonade like it was an innovative work of art. It was very mediocre and undeserving. The hype was mostly around the visuals and theme not the actual music.

[Edited 2/13/17 14:08pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

214 said:

Sales wouldn't have to be a matter when it comes to the Grammys, 25 has sold millions but it's far from great album. Anti and Lemonade are way better.

Yet I can't think of any other reason why Taylor won over Kendrick last year and I think that's the main reason behind Adele's win last night.

Could it be that more voters PREFERRED Taylor's album. I was never a big fan, but that is an excellent POP album. Comparing her to Kendrick Lamar is apples to oranges

CynicKill said:

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

I felt that way to but if they were just trying to fill up slots then it was such a waste.

But... as I type this I just remembered that apparently the artists now have to submit their own albums for consideration. How does this process work? Does a host of acts submit their albums and the Academy proceeds to make an evaulation on which ones make the cut for nomination?

[Edited 2/13/17 13:33pm]

I know artist and the labels submit the songs for whatever particular category and there album. And I guess which ever album get the mosts vote or which album gets chosen by a committee are nominated to get voted on. I wonder whos voting on this stuff though because kendrick losing twice kanye never winning and though unpopular on this forum lemonade not winning is utterly ridiculous. It just a pattern of marginlation of rnb and rap to their specific corners.

That's a pretty arbitrary process. I have to agree with Cynic on this system being an excuse for the NARAS not having to keep up with what's going on themselves.

I'd like to see what would happen if literally nobody or few submitted their albums. I wonder what the academy would do to save face?

jjhunsecker said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Yet I can't think of any other reason why Taylor won over Kendrick last year and I think that's the main reason behind Adele's win last night.

Could it be that more voters PREFERRED Taylor's album. I was never a big fan, but that is an excellent POP album. Comparing her to Kendrick Lamar is apples to oranges

When 2 completely different albums are competing for the same award then they have to be compared. The academy had to compare them when making the decision that 1989 would win and naturally when one wins and the other doesn't, the fans make comparisons and draw their own conclusions.

MotownSubdivision said:

214 said:

Sales wouldn't have to be a matter when it comes to the Grammys, 25 has sold millions but it's far from great album. Anti and Lemonade are way better.

Yet I can't think of any other reason why Taylor won over Kendrick last year and I think that's the main reason behind Adele's win last night.

It shouldn't be this way. By the way, til this very day i can't believe how come Bob Dylan has never won Song Of The Year being probably the greatest composer in popular music. He should have won several times, one of those with Not Dark Yet in 1998.

MotownSubdivision said:

jjhunsecker said:

Could it be that more voters PREFERRED Taylor's album. I was never a big fan, but that is an excellent POP album. Comparing her to Kendrick Lamar is apples to oranges

When 2 completely different albums are competing for the same award then they have to be compared. The academy had to compare them when making the decision that 1989 would win and naturally when one wins and the other doesn't, the fans make comparisons and draw their own conclusions.

Quick : Who's better ? Hank Williams or Beethovan ? Aretha Franklin or Maria Callas ? Count Basie or Buddy Holly ?

I kind of agree with something Humphrey Bogart once said many year ago about the Oscars : the only way to truly judge who the Best Actor was would be if every actor played "Hamlet" and then you picked which one did it best .

214 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Yet I can't think of any other reason why Taylor won over Kendrick last year and I think that's the main reason behind Adele's win last night.

It shouldn't be this way. By the way, til this very day i can't believe how come Bob Dylan has never won Song Of The Year being probably the greatest composer in popular music. He should have won several times, one of those with Not Dark Yet in 1998.

He should have won for "Make You Feel My Love", which I think is one of the best songs of the last 20 years, and has been covered by tons of artists (including Adele)

I haven't watched the Grammys in years.It would be hard for me to sit through a show that gives Grammys to Beyonce every year she has 22 Grammys while Prince (!) only has 7.Freakin' unbelievable!

One big problem is that they have too many catagories!

They need to cut things like Best Contemporary R&B Album and Best Performance by a Duo or Group nonsense. THAT's where over-awarding can occur.

>

And maybe the "strength" of Lemonade comes from the production? Of the four songs I've heard they do have that something extra that previous Beyonce tracks lacked. But like someone said before that just makes this Beyonce album a step up from previous ones.

>

As for critical reaction mjcarousal you're right, it don't matter. I was just stating that's where a lot of the press stuff is coming from. And it always help to be an industry darling, something she developed into as of late. I am at oddds with the critics on this subject. They suckered me with "Self Titled". It wasn't that good. I didn't even give this one a chance.

>

And as far as comparing this to politics, I couldn't help myself. She will be the Hillary Clinton of the grammys.

jjhunsecker said:

MotownSubdivision said:

When 2 completely different albums are competing for the same award then they have to be compared. The academy had to compare them when making the decision that 1989 would win and naturally when one wins and the other doesn't, the fans make comparisons and draw their own conclusions.

Quick : Who's better ? Hank Williams or Beethovan ? Aretha Franklin or Maria Callas ? Count Basie or Buddy Holly ?

I kind of agree with something Humphrey Bogart once said many year ago about the Oscars : the only way to truly judge who the Best Actor was would be if every actor played "Hamlet" and then you picked which one did it best .

You should be asking the NARAS this since they're the ones who pool various different albums together for determination on which one is better.

I think we should be asking what the NARAS' criteria for electing the album of the year is in the first place because it seems to vary year to year. One year the most commercially succesful album can wins, the next it can be the critical favorite whether it's a high-tier mainstream or obscure release, the year after could be an accessible pop album, the year after could be an acquired taste underground release.

The academy is far from consistent when choosing which album of the many different ones they judge to be the best release of the year.

[Edited 2/13/17 15:11pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

I know artist and the labels submit the songs for whatever particular category and there album. And I guess which ever album get the mosts vote or which album gets chosen by a committee are nominated to get voted on. I wonder whos voting on this stuff though because kendrick losing twice kanye never winning and though unpopular on this forum lemonade not winning is utterly ridiculous. It just a pattern of marginlation of rnb and rap to their specific corners.

That's a pretty arbitrary process. I have to agree with Cynic on this system being an excuse for the NARAS not having to keep up with what's going on themselves.

I'd like to see what would happen if literally nobody or few submitted their albums. I wonder what the academy would do to save face?

That would be hilarious to take down a big instituion but unfortantey theres not that type of solidarity amongst artist. And when people brag about how many grammys they have they givee the grammy legitimacy.

jjhunsecker said:

214 said:

It shouldn't be this way. By the way, til this very day i can't believe how come Bob Dylan has never won Song Of The Year being probably the greatest composer in popular music. He should have won several times, one of those with Not Dark Yet in 1998.

He should have won for "Make You Feel My Love", which I think is one of the best songs of the last 20 years, and has been covered by tons of artists (including Adele)

It's a beautiful song, and one if not the most straightforward love song he's written yet, but is not as great as many others; so i don't agree,

heathilly said:

MotownSubdivision said:

That's a pretty arbitrary process. I have to agree with Cynic on this system being an excuse for the NARAS not having to keep up with what's going on themselves.

I'd like to see what would happen if literally nobody or few submitted their albums. I wonder what the academy would do to save face?

That would be hilarious to take down a big instituion but unfortantey theres not that type of solidarity amongst artist. And when people brag about how many grammys they have they givee the grammy legitimacy.

Sadly, it more than likely won't happen. I certainly won't hold my breath for it.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

That would be hilarious to take down a big instituion but unfortantey theres not that type of solidarity amongst artist. And when people brag about how many grammys they have they givee the grammy legitimacy.

Sadly, it more than likely won't happen. I certainly won't hold my breath for it.

You be dead in less than 5 minutes people trying to get theres. If you know what I mean.

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

That would be hilarious to take down a big instituion but unfortantey theres not that type of solidarity amongst artist. And when people brag about how many grammys they have they givee the grammy legitimacy.

Sadly, it more than likely won't happen. I certainly won't hold my breath for it.

You be dead in less than 5 minutes people trying to get theres. If you know what I mean.

heathilly said:

.

Tyka's audience reaction to Adele's do over:

.

.

.

I think this little girl's reaction is priceless:

.

.

i'm glad Gary Clark Jr is getting some props... ive been a fan since 2010... and yeah, he kills live

CynicKill said:

He's so adorable!

morningsong said:

Adele broke her Grammy into pieces and gave half to Beyoncé https://t.co/dEh7iyYJ92

I love her voice but she is always so awkward to the point where Im beginning to think she's drunk.

I was embarrassed for her doing that and the inverview she did today trying to explain only made it worse.