jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

I wouldnt say blackster got more praise than lemonade but yes I agree it definitely shouldve got a nomination over bieber definitely. Why was bieber nominated anyway? Anti was better than that trash.

Rolling Stone, the Village Voice Critics Poll, and Entertainment Weekly had "Lemonade" and "Blackstar" as the top 2 albums of the year

Yes they both got alot praise But I believe majority of all sites had lemonade at number 1 and beyonce didnt die. No offense to david bowie but we all know dying is always a career booster in everyway. What actually surprised me is prince death didnt overshadow lemonade which I thought would happen but it didnt.

heathilly said:

Musicslave said:

mjscarousal said:

I think it is most definitly that as well but it was interesting to see celebrities going out of their way to show pity to Beyonce when Beyonce has 22 grammys. There is no reason to pity her when she has been awarded generously and recognized throughout her career. She is literally every where and always obsessively fond over in the media. So why would she need sympathy? There is a psychology behind the reason why people react the way they do to Beyonce. Why people treat her like she is a deity that is above reproach. Its super creepy. The communal reinforcement effect and group think with this obsessive pandering to Beyonce is super creepy and purposeful. It is gotten out of hand. I saw some posts from her fans that was actually calling her a "god" after her performance.

[Edited 2/14/17 8:37am]

-

I'm not surprised to hear that. You're always going to have a few nuts out there that literally make idols out of their Pop idols. This is nothing new. I think the difference is she seems to relish it more than the average artist.

-

As far as celebrities goes, they are part of the larger problem you so often speak of. Entitlement. They're only reinforcing her sense of entitlement.

Beyonce is very narcisstic and self-centered. I think its sad the media applauds her narcisstic behavior and they put her on a pedestal as someone people should revered. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Her peers are reinforcing her sense of entitlement which is why I think its a communal reinforcement that is driven by propaganda. Ain't no way, no how, I would break MY AOTY Grammy on MY night for ANYBODY. Despite her narcissism, they treat Beyonce like she is this humble gracious person, its disgusting.

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

Rolling Stone, the Village Voice Critics Poll, and Entertainment Weekly had "Lemonade" and "Blackstar" as the top 2 albums of the year

Yes they both got alot praise But I believe majority of all sites had lemonade at number 1 and beyonce didnt die. No offense to david bowie but we all know dying is always a career booster in everyway. What actually surprised me is prince death didnt overshadow lemonade which I thought would happen but it didnt.

But Bowie also produced a brilliant album. And he had I believe only one Grammy before Sunday, for a brilliant 40 plus year career...Beyonce had 22 !

Plus, I have not heard all of "Lemonade" , but what I've heard hasn't impressed me all that much. I guess we all have different tastes. I somehow suspect people are reacting more to the "message" than to the music...

And I am the first person to complain about racism, but this is now getting ridiculous. The awards are just representations of the tastes of their voters. They act as if Beyonce is OWED this award, with no dissent allowed :

https://www.nytimes.com/2....html?_r=1

[Edited 2/14/17 9:51am]

mjscarousal said:

Musicslave said:

-

I'm not surprised to hear that. You're always going to have a few nuts out there that literally make idols out of their Pop idols. This is nothing new. I think the difference is she seems to relish it more than the average artist.

-

As far as celebrities goes, they are part of the larger problem you so often speak of. Entitlement. They're only reinforcing her sense of entitlement.

Beyonce is very narcisstic and self-centered. I think its sad the media applauds her narcisstic behavior and they put her on a pedestal as someone people should revered. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Her peers are reinforcing her sense of entitlement which is why I think its a communal reinforcement that is driven by propaganda. Ain't no way, no how, I would break MY AOTY Grammy on MY night for ANYBODY. Despite her narcissism, they treat Beyonce like she is this humble gracious person, its disgusting.

She did muster up some tears during Adele's acceptance speech.

You gotta be impressed by that!

CynicKill said:

mjscarousal said:

Beyonce is very narcisstic and self-centered. I think its sad the media applauds her narcisstic behavior and they put her on a pedestal as someone people should revered. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Her peers are reinforcing her sense of entitlement which is why I think its a communal reinforcement that is driven by propaganda. Ain't no way, no how, I would break MY AOTY Grammy on MY night for ANYBODY. Despite her narcissism, they treat Beyonce like she is this humble gracious person, its disgusting.

She did muster up some tears during Adele's acceptance speech.

You gotta be impressed by that!

Beyonce was crying because she lost.

All Beyonce songs focus on her, how much money she has, how she has the perfect marriage, perfect children, riches, life style, how people should bow down to her, how she is the queen, how she is better than everybody, how we all are peasants Her performances and music videos focus on this same grandioso image she has about herself. Its obnoxious and revolting. What is sad is that her narcisstism is celebrated.

If Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson had walked on that stage with a crown on their head with a bunch of woman dressed like peasants bow dowing at them on stage the media would have crucified them! I am tired of this demonic creepy idol worship proganda when it comes to Beyonce. Its blasepmous and its not right and I will always call it out.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:00am]

mjscarousal said:

CynicKill said:

She did muster up some tears during Adele's acceptance speech.

You gotta be impressed by that!

Beyonce was crying because she lost.

All Beyonce songs focus on her, how much money she has, how she has the perfect marriage, perfect children, riches, life style, how people should bow down to her, how she is the queen, how she is better than everybody, how we all are peasants:nuts: Her performances and music videos focus on this same grandioso image she has about herself. Its obnoxious and revolting. What is sad is that her narcisstism is celebrated.

If Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson had walked on that stage with a crown on their head with a bunch of woman dressed like peasants bow dowing at them on stage the media would have crucified them! I am tired of this demonic creepy idol worship proganda when it comes to Beyonce. Its blasepmous and its not right and I will always call it out.

In total agreement ! These aspects of her personality and music and performances really annoy me

jjhunsecker said:

The awards are just representations of the tastes of their voters.

That's all, that's it. Some years the voters might put aside their own tastes, like say when OutKast or Arcade Fire win AOTY.

In most given years you see the Adeles, Steely Dans and Becks win out because they more accurately represent the voters' tastes.

Lionel Richie's Can't Slow Down won AOTY over Purple Rain.

And so it goes on.

MotownSubdivision said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

Beyonce was crying because she lost.

All Beyonce songs focus on her, how much money she has, how she has the perfect marriage, perfect children, riches, life style, how people should bow down to her, how she is the queen, how she is better than everybody, how we all are peasants:nuts: Her performances and music videos focus on this same grandioso image she has about herself. Its obnoxious and revolting. What is sad is that her narcisstism is celebrated.

If Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson had walked on that stage with a crown on their head with a bunch of woman dressed like peasants bow dowing at them on stage the media would have crucified them! I am tired of this demonic creepy idol worship proganda when it comes to Beyonce. Its blasepmous and its not right and I will always call it out.

In total agreement ! These aspects of her personality and music and performances really annoy me

>

And Drake has the same problem.

Wasn't he nominated in the catagory too?

jjhunsecker said:

CynicKill said:

heathilly said:

CynicKill said:

>

And Drake has the same problem.

Wasn't he nominated in the catagory too?

Rap music very nature is about proclaiming your the best and ostentatiousness you guys act like every other artist is Mother Teresa the hypocrisy here is laughable. No one complains that Kendrick Lamar calls himself King Kendrick. Let's not forget the king of pop with his giant statues of himself and million dollar paintings of himself. What about prince with his stuck up attitude he had his whole career higher than thou. All this stuff is rock & roll it's part of being a pop star.

>

I hope you've actually listened to Drake extensively before you posted that, then maybe you'd know the difference.

The only gross snub for AOTY IMO was when U2 won over MJ in 88, I am sorry but U2 did not deserve AOTY. MJ had 5 number one hits off of BAD which was a record that has not been broken by a Black artist and it was the biggest selling album that year. I know sales are not everything but it was a better album than that Joshua Tree (and BAD has proven to obviously be an Iconic and Classic album) and its ridiculous that MJ walked away with NOTHING that year, gross.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:28am]

namepeace said:

jjhunsecker said:

The awards are just representations of the tastes of their voters.

That's all, that's it. Some years the voters might put aside their own tastes, like say when OutKast or Arcade Fire win AOTY.

In most given years you see the Adeles, Steely Dans and Becks win out because they more accurately represent the voters' tastes.

Lionel Richie's Can't Slow Down won AOTY over Purple Rain.

And so it goes on.

And "Born in the USA" and "Private Dancer" !!

heathilly said:

CynicKill said:

>

And Drake has the same problem.

Wasn't he nominated in the catagory too?

Rap music very nature is about proclaiming your the best and ostentatiousness you guys act like every other artist is Mother Teresa the hypocrisy here is laughable. No one complains that Kendrick Lamar calls himself King Kendrick. Let's not forget the king of pop with his giant statues of himself and million dollar paintings of himself. What about prince with his stuck up attitude he had his whole career higher than thou. All this stuff is rock & roll it's part of being a pop star.

That's part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of hip-hop music, and I disliked those aspects in Prince and in Michael Jackson. But Beyonce really rubs it in people's faces

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

Beyonce was crying because she lost.

All Beyonce songs focus on her, how much money she has, how she has the perfect marriage, perfect children, riches, life style, how people should bow down to her, how she is the queen, how she is better than everybody, how we all are peasants:nuts: Her performances and music videos focus on this same grandioso image she has about herself. Its obnoxious and revolting. What is sad is that her narcisstism is celebrated.

If Whitney Houston or Janet Jackson had walked on that stage with a crown on their head with a bunch of woman dressed like peasants bow dowing at them on stage the media would have crucified them! I am tired of this demonic creepy idol worship proganda when it comes to Beyonce. Its blasepmous and its not right and I will always call it out.

In total agreement ! These aspects of her personality and music and performances really annoy me

Besides being a mediocre talent and her bland music, Beyonce is not a likable person.

She doesn't have an interesting personality and she comes across as phony, when you add her narcisstic complex, she is just very off putting.

At least with Rihanna, she is actually likable. One might not think she is all that talented but at least she is down to earth, has charisma and seems like an overall fun loving person. I get why people like Rihanna as a person.With Beyonce, the adulation her fans have for her is not based on her as a person and more so this "idealized image of herself" that the media and her PR team have constructed. Her adulation doesn't feel real or geniune and more so cult like.

mjscarousal said:

The only gross snub for AOTY IMO was when U2 won over MJ in 88, I am sorry but U2 did not deserve AOTY. MJ had 5 number one hits off of BAD which was a record that has not been broken by a Black artist and it was the biggest selling album that year. I know sales are not everything but it was a better album than that Joshua Tree (and BAD has proven to obviously be an Iconic and Classic album) and its ridiculous that MJ walked away with NOTHING that year, gross.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:28am]

I guess it's all about taste- I liked "Bad", but to me, "The Joshua Tree" is a masterpiece

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

CynicKill said: Rap music very nature is about proclaiming your the best and ostentatiousness you guys act like every other artist is Mother Teresa the hypocrisy here is laughable. No one complains that Kendrick Lamar calls himself King Kendrick. Let's not forget the king of pop with his giant statues of himself and million dollar paintings of himself. What about prince with his stuck up attitude he had his whole career higher than thou. All this stuff is rock & roll it's part of being a pop star.

That's part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of hip-hop music, and I disliked those aspects in Prince and in Michael Jackson. But Beyonce really rubs it in people's faces

Michael Jackson was gracious. He always talked about how his collaboraters helped out in his videos, albums, etc. He always acknowledged his influences and not implied he invented anything. He never made albums after albums discussing how greater he was than everybody else. In fact, he was the exact opposite. He always made charity songs, songs about healing the world, social issues, children and humanitarism. His videos and performances also focused on these issues as well and that is largely why he was loved all around the globe because of his geniune humanilty and vunerability for other people. He didn't just sing about it, he actually did advocacy work in poverish countries, hospitals, and areas that were in need.

Beyonce suffers from narcisstic personality disorder. ALSO, MJ did not have those statues built. Those countries built those statues to honor him. Beyonce fans are delusional, always making excuses for anything she does. Beyonce is narcisstic....period, stop bringing other artists into the conversation to deflect or justify that. I wouldn't waste my time going back in forth with these Beyonce stans.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:56am]

CynicKill said:

jjhunsecker said:

jjhunsecker said:

mjscarousal said:

The only gross snub for AOTY IMO was when U2 won over MJ in 88, I am sorry but U2 did not deserve AOTY. MJ had 5 number one hits off of BAD which was a record that has not been broken by a Black artist and it was the biggest selling album that year. I know sales are not everything but it was a better album than that Joshua Tree (and BAD has proven to obviously be an Iconic and Classic album) and its ridiculous that MJ walked away with NOTHING that year, gross.

[Edited 2/14/17 10:28am]

I guess it's all about taste- I liked "Bad", but to me, "The Joshua Tree" is a masterpiece

I respect your opinion but its not more iconic or more timeless than BAD. BAD should have won AOTY.

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said:

jjhunsecker said:

In total agreement ! These aspects of her personality and music and performances really annoy me

Besides being a mediocre talent and her bland music, Beyonce is not a likable person.

She doesn't have an interesting personality and she comes across as phony, when you add her narcisstic complex, she is just very off putting.

At least with Rihanna, she is actually likable. One might not think she is all that talented but at least she is down to earth, has charisma and seems like an overall fun loving person. I get why people like Rihanna as a person.With Beyonce, the adulation her fans have for her is not based on her as a person and more so this "idealized image of herself" that the media and her PR team have constructed. Her adulation doesn't feel real or geniune and more so cult like.

I never thought I'd find myself defending Beyonce lol, but seriously go listen to Lemonade. It is one of the most honest, least self absorded pieces of music that I've heard from contemporary artist in a while. She really did any amazing job on it - including the accompanying film. I'm not sure if she was robbed of album of the year, I can't debate that either way. But I will say that the "flaws" that were mentioned (singing about her money, how perfect things are etc...) is not a theme of her current project. It's present in a way, but it's not in your face.

PurpleMusic07 said:

mjscarousal said:

Besides being a mediocre talent and her bland music, Beyonce is not a likable person.

She doesn't have an interesting personality and she comes across as phony, when you add her narcisstic complex, she is just very off putting.

At least with Rihanna, she is actually likable. One might not think she is all that talented but at least she is down to earth, has charisma and seems like an overall fun loving person. I get why people like Rihanna as a person.With Beyonce, the adulation her fans have for her is not based on her as a person and more so this "idealized image of herself" that the media and her PR team have constructed. Her adulation doesn't feel real or geniune and more so cult like.

I never thought I'd find myself defending Beyonce lol, but seriously go listen to Lemonade. It is one of the most honest, least self absorded pieces of music that I've heard from contemporary artist in a while. She really did any amazing job on it - including the accompanying film. I'm not sure if she was robbed of album of the year, I can't debate that either way. But I will say that the "flaws" that were mentioned (singing about her money, how perfect things are etc...) is not a theme of her current project. It's present in a way, but it's not in your face.

You seriously cannot be serious with this?

How is it honest with 72 writers? She didn't write any of the music. I listened to songs and I was not impressed and how is "I slay slay slay" not self absorbed? Also, Jay Z exposed the whole Lemonade project on TIDAL by leaking a mix track in which he rapped about how it was just a PR stunt,which I already knew without him leaking a mix tape.

Lemonade was a narcisstic PR stunt. It was never about the music. She used her marriage rumors as a way to drive PR for the album. If it was an honest adaptation of how she really felt, she would have wrote it herself. I mean REALLY think about it, Beyonce proudly sings songs about Jay Z cheating on her with a big smile and Jay Z is smiling right along Beyonce even had the audacity to rub her pregnant belly and sing a song at the Grammys about her cheating husband, and you think her album was honest and not self absorbed? Lol

[Edited 2/14/17 11:17am]

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

That's part of the reason I'm not a huge fan of hip-hop music, and I disliked those aspects in Prince and in Michael Jackson. But Beyonce really rubs it in people's faces

I don't see how Beyoncé does it more than any other artist if anything it's her fans. But mj had the same type of fans I remember a video of the bad tour edited to show people fainting and people holding up signs that mj is god. Other than that fair enough on the rap music tip.

I mentioned earlier how I watched a concert of hers on TV, and she was constantly saying things like "This song hit #1 on the charts" and "This album was a big hit all over the world". I've been to tons of concerts- from Bruce Springsteen to the Stoones to the Who to Prince to Elton John , and I never heard any of them (massive hitmakers all) saying how BIG a particular album was, or how successful they are

PurpleMusic07 said:

mjscarousal said:

Besides being a mediocre talent and her bland music, Beyonce is not a likable person.

She doesn't have an interesting personality and she comes across as phony, when you add her narcisstic complex, she is just very off putting.

At least with Rihanna, she is actually likable. One might not think she is all that talented but at least she is down to earth, has charisma and seems like an overall fun loving person. I get why people like Rihanna as a person.With Beyonce, the adulation her fans have for her is not based on her as a person and more so this "idealized image of herself" that the media and her PR team have constructed. Her adulation doesn't feel real or geniune and more so cult like.

I never thought I'd find myself defending Beyonce lol, but seriously go listen to Lemonade. It is one of the most honest, least self absorded pieces of music that I've heard from contemporary artist in a while. She really did any amazing job on it - including the accompanying film. I'm not sure if she was robbed of album of the year, I can't debate that either way. But I will say that the "flaws" that were mentioned (singing about her money, how perfect things are etc...) is not a theme of her current project. It's present in a way, but it's not in your face.

I want to hear the whole thing, just to see what everyone is praising, and perhaps what am I missing...the songs I've heard, like on the Grammys, I kept asking "Where is the chorus ?", as they just seemed to be verses that meandered. I didn't hear any "hooks"...And I consider "Crazy in Love" to be one of the best songs of the 2000s, and liked the catchiness of many of the Destiny's Child hits.

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said: I don't see how Beyoncé does it more than any other artist if anything it's her fans. But mj had the same type of fans I remember a video of the bad tour edited to show people fainting and people holding up signs that mj is god. Other than that fair enough on the rap music tip.

I mentioned earlier how I watched a concert of hers on TV, and she was constantly saying things like "This song hit #1 on the charts" and "This album was a big hit all over the world". I've been to tons of concerts- from Bruce Springsteen to the Stoones to the Who to Prince to Elton John , and I never heard any of them (massive hitmakers all) saying how BIG a particular album was, or how successful they are

Even Michael Jackson did not do that at his concerts and he has more hits and is the biggest selling solo act of all time. So we really blaming MJ for the fact that people fainted in his prescence? How could anyone possibly blame that on Michael? Chile Anything to defend Beyonce I guess even when it makes no logical sense! Whitney, Mariah, Madonna, Janet, etc (all hit makers) did not talk about their accomplishments in their concerts but like I said earlier its a lost cause going back in forth with Beyonce stans. They think she is above criticism and is perfect. Any rational person would maturely acknowledge that is narcisstic behavior.

[Edited 2/14/17 11:29am]

[Edited 2/14/17 11:31am]

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said:

heathilly said:

jjhunsecker said: I don't see how Beyoncé does it more than any other artist if anything it's her fans. But mj had the same type of fans I remember a video of the bad tour edited to show people fainting and people holding up signs that mj is god. Other than that fair enough on the rap music tip.

I mentioned earlier how I watched a concert of hers on TV, and she was constantly saying things like "This song hit #1 on the charts" and "This album was a big hit all over the world". I've been to tons of concerts- from Bruce Springsteen to the Stoones to the Who to Prince to Elton John , and I never heard any of them (massive hitmakers all) saying how BIG a particular album was, or how successful they are

I remember vaguely of her doing like a skit talking about how her first album the record label said it wasnt good enough or commecial enough. And she had a bunch of hits off it. That was less braging and more telling a narrative of overcoming adversity and being a success. If its something else your talking can you post the link because other than that I dont remember anything else. You guys are making me sound like a beyonce stan but I think alot of you are just being kinda of ridculous.

[Edited 2/14/17 11:45am]