rlittler81 said:

Erotica is my favourite album, love the song writing, the production, the vocals. Amazing.

It is a very good album. Probably her best sonically. As a whole concept album.

Glindathegood said:

ML2016 said:

You didn't come off as "bitchy". You're just trying to defend Madonna with education and constructive arguments.

Look, I love Madge's music. Really do. But I don't see any talent in her apart from her marketing capacity and capability of conducting a career. Musical talent though? Nope. Prince and MJ are the Alps to Madonna's valley little hill. She's not even comparable to her peers. I know this hurts her fans but I think that, in their heart of hearts, they know this full well.

[Edited 7/5/16 10:01am]

No, we don't know that. How is that someone with no musical talent can continue to be successful for so long? You can't be successful just on marketing, you have to have good music to market. How can you love someone's music but say the person who makes it has no talent. It's illogical.

Now I agree she wasn't as good at playing instruments as Prince, but she does write excellent songs and has a much more pleasing voice than people give her credit for. Michael Jackson didn't really play instruments particularly well and required a lot of help in his songwriting from other people.

What I find odd is why do fans of Prince and Michael Jackson need to knock Madonna down and undermine her talent? Are you that insecure with their place in history? I rarely see Madonna fans saying Prince and MJ aren't talented. They don't need to knock someone else down to make Madonna look good, we love her on her own merits.

Has there ever been a superstar who has been successful as long as Madonna has whose talent is constantly questioned. It feels like she always has to prove herself no matter how much she achieves.

I also think the original poster undersells Karen Carpenter and Gloria Estefan. They both have lovely vocals. Karen Carpenter is one of the best singers who ever lived. But for some reason in this day and age, you are only a true vocalist if you scream and yell and try to hit notes only dogs can hear. I definitely hear Karen's influence in Madonna's singing. You can put across emotion with a lovely tone, which she actually does which people rarely give her credit for.

Madonna does not play ANY instrument at a minimally profesional level so to see one of her fans knocking MJ for not playing instruments is ludricous. Madonna can dilly dally on a guitar and a piano but that's it. Sge doesn't even warrant a comparison to Prince on the field. MJ wrote all of his most famous hits so to say he "required a lot of help" to write is ridiculous. But, then again, why am I defending MJ to a Madonna fan? MJ is a heavyweight talent as was Prince. Madonna doesn't compare to them on that area. She simply is a LOT of levels underneath them. Prince is, arguably, the most complete musical act in the history of modern music and MJ is, arguably, the greatest entertainer ever. Madonna doesn't even begin to touch them. Talent-wise they blow her off the park and Madonna would be the first to admit it. And you know it full well.

ML2016 said:

Glindathegood said:

No, we don't know that. How is that someone with no musical talent can continue to be successful for so long? You can't be successful just on marketing, you have to have good music to market. How can you love someone's music but say the person who makes it has no talent. It's illogical.

Now I agree she wasn't as good at playing instruments as Prince, but she does write excellent songs and has a much more pleasing voice than people give her credit for. Michael Jackson didn't really play instruments particularly well and required a lot of help in his songwriting from other people.

What I find odd is why do fans of Prince and Michael Jackson need to knock Madonna down and undermine her talent? Are you that insecure with their place in history? I rarely see Madonna fans saying Prince and MJ aren't talented. They don't need to knock someone else down to make Madonna look good, we love her on her own merits.

Has there ever been a superstar who has been successful as long as Madonna has whose talent is constantly questioned. It feels like she always has to prove herself no matter how much she achieves.

I also think the original poster undersells Karen Carpenter and Gloria Estefan. They both have lovely vocals. Karen Carpenter is one of the best singers who ever lived. But for some reason in this day and age, you are only a true vocalist if you scream and yell and try to hit notes only dogs can hear. I definitely hear Karen's influence in Madonna's singing. You can put across emotion with a lovely tone, which she actually does which people rarely give her credit for.

Madonna does not play ANY instrument at a minimally profesional level so to see one of her fans knocking MJ for not playing instruments is ludricous. Madonna can dilly dally on a guitar and a piano but that's it. Sge doesn't even warrant a comparison to Prince on the field. MJ wrote all of his most famous hits so to say he "required a lot of help" to write is ridiculous. But, then again, why am I defending MJ to a Madonna fan? MJ is a heavyweight talent as was Prince. Madonna doesn't compare to them on that area. She simply is a LOT of levels underneath them. Prince is, arguably, the most complete musical act in the history of modern music and MJ is, arguably, the greatest entertainer ever. Madonna doesn't even begin to touch them. Talent-wise they blow her off the park and Madonna would be the first to admit it. And you know it full well.

Not to pick holes, but didn't Madonna start off as a drummer for the band The Breakfast Club? No idea how far they got or how good they were....

And MJ didn't write all of his most famous hits ...
- Baby Be Mine, Off The Wall, Rock With You, The Lady In My Life, and Thriller were written by Rod Temperton
- Farewell My Summer Love written by Keni St. Lewis
- Human Nature written by John Bettis and Steve Borcaro
- She's Out Of My Life written by Tom Bahler
- You Are Not Alone written by R.Kelly

- Just Good Friends, written by Terry Britten and Graham Lyle
- Man In The Mirror written by Glen Ballard and Siedah Garratt
- PYT written by James Ingram and Quincy Jones
- Plus he had a ton of co-writers for other hits like Teddy Riley, Bernard Belle, Terry Lewis, Paul McCartney, etc

[Edited 7/6/16 5:28am]

DaveT said:

Not to pick holes, but didn't Madonna start off as a drummer for the band The Breakfast Club? No idea how far they got or how good they were....

And MJ didn't write all of his most famous hits ...
- Baby Be Mine, Off The Wall, Rock With You, The Lady In My Life, and Thriller were written by Rod Temperton
- Farewell My Summer Love written by Keni St. Lewis
- Human Nature written by John Bettis and Steve Borcaro
- She's Out Of My Life written by Tom Bahler
- You Are Not Alone written by R.Kelly

- Just Good Friends, written by Terry Britten and Graham Lyle
- Man In The Mirror written by Glen Ballard and Siedah Garratt
- PYT written by James Ingram and Quincy Jones
- Plus he had a ton of co-writers for other hits like Teddy Riley, Bernard Belle, Terry Lewis, Paul McCartney, etc

[Edited 7/6/16 5:28am]

He didn't write most of his famous hits but he wrote his most famous hits. Just saying.

DaveT said:

ML2016 said:

Madonna does not play ANY instrument at a minimally profesional level so to see one of her fans knocking MJ for not playing instruments is ludricous. Madonna can dilly dally on a guitar and a piano but that's it. Sge doesn't even warrant a comparison to Prince on the field. MJ wrote all of his most famous hits so to say he "required a lot of help" to write is ridiculous. But, then again, why am I defending MJ to a Madonna fan? MJ is a heavyweight talent as was Prince. Madonna doesn't compare to them on that area. She simply is a LOT of levels underneath them. Prince is, arguably, the most complete musical act in the history of modern music and MJ is, arguably, the greatest entertainer ever. Madonna doesn't even begin to touch them. Talent-wise they blow her off the park and Madonna would be the first to admit it. And you know it full well.

Not to pick holes, but didn't Madonna start off as a drummer for the band The Breakfast Club? No idea how far they got or how good they were....

And MJ didn't write all of his most famous hits ...
- Baby Be Mine, Off The Wall, Rock With You, The Lady In My Life, and Thriller were written by Rod Temperton
- Farewell My Summer Love written by Keni St. Lewis
- Human Nature written by John Bettis and Steve Borcaro
- She's Out Of My Life written by Tom Bahler
- You Are Not Alone written by R.Kelly

- Just Good Friends, written by Terry Britten and Graham Lyle
- Man In The Mirror written by Glen Ballard and Siedah Garratt
- PYT written by James Ingram and Quincy Jones
- Plus he had a ton of co-writers for other hits like Teddy Riley, Bernard Belle, Terry Lewis, Paul McCartney, etc

[Edited 7/6/16 5:28am]

Are you seriously comparing MJ's talent to Madonna's?

ML2016 said:

Are you seriously comparing MJ's talent to Madonna's?

Here? On the .org? People do that? The same forum where Janet's critically acclaimed Unsellable cancelled tour is blamed on her public TV nipple almost over a decade earlier is lamented as one of pop music's greatest losses of all time... but Madonna is a talentless whore despite selling out dates worldwide and actually singing live? Yesh. MJ couldn't do that either.

.

[Edited 7/6/16 14:11pm]

ML2016 said:

StrangeButTrue said:

ML2016 said:

Are you seriously comparing MJ's talent to Madonna's?

Here? On the .org? People do that? The same forum where Janet's critically acclaimed Unsellable cancelled tour is blamed on her public TV nipple almost over a decade earlier is lamented as one of pop music's greatest losses of all time... but Madonna is a talentless whore despite selling out dates worldwide and actually singing live? Yesh. MJ couldn't do that either.

.

[Edited 7/6/16 14:11pm]

Have you ever watched MJ's Destiny tour? Have you seen him singing on that particular tour? He blows Madonna's singing skills AWAY. And he was just a teen by then.

But, honestly, why am I having this conversation with you? Madonna herself would tell you MJ had away more talent than her. Comparing MJ to Madonna on a pure talent level is mere delusion. Next thing you know, you're going to compare her to Prince.

[Edited 7/6/16 15:23pm]

Madonna is smelling badly..

Never liked her,Totally overrated in the day, she was no more than a pop bubblegummy poser who sounded like minnie mouse on helium.. When she wasent lipsyncing... she wasent a serious artist ever in her career, She never grew as an artist , she cant play an instument and now shes just stale cake ,, its over, but for 58 i will give her credit shes got alot of energy and stamina its hard night after night DANCING AROUND SINGING OVER PRECORDED MUSIC at that age. Her pathetic and embarressing attempt at singing anything live.. let alone giving her the privilage of honoring The great and beautiful Prince wearing that liberace jacket, live...croaking out the wrong song choice,live.. stumbling around with Stevie.. live.... that was enough to make me cry all over again,

were left with inferior talent people:(

hollygolightly said:

hollygolightly said:

Madonna is smelling badly..

Never liked her,Totally overrated in the day, she was no more than a pop bubblegummy poser who sounded like minnie mouse on helium.. When she wasent lipsyncing... she wasent a serious artist ever in her career, She never grew as an artist , she cant play an instument and now shes just stale cake ,, its over, but for 58 i will give her credit shes got alot of energy and stamina its hard night after night DANCING AROUND SINGING OVER PRECORDED MUSIC at that age. Her pathetic and embarressing attempt at singing anything live.. let alone giving her the privilage of honoring The great and beautiful Prince wearing that liberace jacket, live...croaking out the wrong song choice,live.. stumbling around with Stevie.. live.... that was enough to make me cry all over again,

were left with inferior talent people:(

With all that's going on in the world right now, I've never understood people who reserve this much vitirol and anger for another person who just wants to make music for their fans. She's not your cup of tea? Turn the radio or TV over, go listen to something else, its not hard. Folk that feel that the world is going to be a better place if they seek out a forum to let other people now how much they hate something...bizzare...

What I'm really intrigued by is how wound up these sort of folk get about issues that actually matter (poverty, gun control, terrorism, etc)... I assume vein popping, heart-attack inducing, nuclear rage ... or maybe not...

kewlschool said:

I love Madonna's music although i do understand the criticism against her, but just listen something like Mer Girl, Has To Be or Drowned World and tell me those are not great songs?

When there is nobody disgusted by her, when there are no threads asking if she should "sit her badly aged ass down", when there is nobody going to her shows......that's when she needs to sit her ass down. Fortunately for her and her fans, those things haven't happened yet so like it or not, get ready for 30 more years of Madonna.

These kinds of threads are so very transparent. Even 35 years after her first single, people still be sweatin Madonna.

Prince.org is a joke now. These posts are embrassassing.

kewlschool said:

rlittler81 said:

Erotica is my favourite album, love the song writing, the production, the vocals. Amazing.

It is a very good album. Probably her best sonically. As a whole concept album.

Agree, its her best imo.

ML2016 said:

Madonna does not play ANY instrument at a minimally profesional level so to see one of her fans knocking MJ for not playing instruments is ludricous. Madonna can dilly dally on a guitar and a piano but that's it. Sge doesn't even warrant a comparison to Prince on the field. MJ wrote all of his most famous hits so to say he "required a lot of help" to write is ridiculous. But, then again, why am I defending MJ to a Madonna fan? MJ is a heavyweight talent as was Prince. Madonna doesn't compare to them on that area. She simply is a LOT of levels underneath them. Prince is, arguably, the most complete musical act in the history of modern music and MJ is, arguably, the greatest entertainer ever. Madonna doesn't even begin to touch them. Talent-wise they blow her off the park and Madonna would be the first to admit it. And you know it full well.

I'm not knocking Michael Jackson at all. I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to play an instrument excellently to be a great songwriter. Michael and Madonna were/are both great songwriters but not virtuoso on instruments.

Madonna, MJ and Prince were/are all heavyweights. Why not respect all of them and not knock anyone down.

You say MJ was an entertainer. Well, isn't Madonna too? Aren't her shows multi dimensional extraganzas that involve dancing and video and other elements besides merely singing.

What is the main difference between Madonna and MJ/Prince. She's the only female one. Us women always have to prove ourselves more than men. Our talent is always questioned. I think sexism rears its ugly head here a lot.

mjscarousal said:

Prince.org is a joke now. These posts are embrassassing.

.

[Edited 7/12/16 20:29pm]

Glindathegood said:

ML2016 said:

Madonna does not play ANY instrument at a minimally profesional level so to see one of her fans knocking MJ for not playing instruments is ludricous. Madonna can dilly dally on a guitar and a piano but that's it. Sge doesn't even warrant a comparison to Prince on the field. MJ wrote all of his most famous hits so to say he "required a lot of help" to write is ridiculous. But, then again, why am I defending MJ to a Madonna fan? MJ is a heavyweight talent as was Prince. Madonna doesn't compare to them on that area. She simply is a LOT of levels underneath them. Prince is, arguably, the most complete musical act in the history of modern music and MJ is, arguably, the greatest entertainer ever. Madonna doesn't even begin to touch them. Talent-wise they blow her off the park and Madonna would be the first to admit it. And you know it full well.

I'm not knocking Michael Jackson at all. I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to play an instrument excellently to be a great songwriter. Michael and Madonna were/are both great songwriters but not virtuoso on instruments.

Madonna, MJ and Prince were/are all heavyweights. Why not respect all of them and not knock anyone down.

You say MJ was an entertainer. Well, isn't Madonna too? Aren't her shows multi dimensional extraganzas that involve dancing and video and other elements besides merely singing.

What is the main difference between Madonna and MJ/Prince. She's the only female one. Us women always have to prove ourselves more than men. Our talent is always questioned. I think sexism rears its ugly head here a lot.

You are absolutely right.

214 said:

I think Madonna is awesome, I especially love her older material.....it still sounds great today. Been listen to her debut album today my fav song Burning Up https://www.youtube.com/w...ISDgwD7MjU

[Edited 7/12/16 22:24pm]

Goddess4Real said:

I think Madonna is awesome, I especially love her older material.....it still sounds great today. Been listen to her debut album today my fav song Burning Up https://www.youtube.com/w...ISDgwD7MjU

[Edited 7/12/16 22:24pm]

exactly - Some people just cant help but hate. She is Madonna after all!!!

Goddess4Real said:

I think Madonna is awesome, I especially love her older material.....it still sounds great today. Been listen to her debut album today my fav song Burning Up https://www.youtube.com/w...ISDgwD7MjU

[Edited 7/12/16 22:24pm]

exactly - Some people just cant help but hate. She is Madonna after all!!!

jstar69 said:

Goddess4Real said:

I think Madonna is awesome, I especially love her older material.....it still sounds great today. Been listen to her debut album today my fav song Burning Up https://www.youtube.com/w...ISDgwD7MjU

[Edited 7/12/16 22:24pm]

exactly - Some people just cant help but hate. She is Madonna after all!!!

Out of all the tours (I saw her live back in Syndey 1993......I couldn't go this year due to family illnesses) I've watched I love Like a Virgin Tour because it was before all the theatrics, just her, her band and 2 really hot dancers https://www.youtube.com/w...BIgSML-YUM

Goddess4Real said:

jstar69 said:

exactly - Some people just cant help but hate. She is Madonna after all!!!

Out of all the tours (I saw her live back in Syndey 1993......I couldn't go this year due to family illnesses) I've watched I love Like a Virgin Tour because it was before all the theatrics, just her, her band and 2 really hot dancers https://www.youtube.com/w...BIgSML-YUM

love it!!!

jstar69 said:

Goddess4Real said:

Out of all the tours (I saw her live back in Syndey 1993......I couldn't go this year due to family illnesses) I've watched I love Like a Virgin Tour because it was before all the theatrics, just her, her band and 2 really hot dancers https://www.youtube.com/w...BIgSML-YUM

love it!!!

She's not the greatest singer, but she know's how to put on a great show. The Virgin Tour was a great show even her attempt at Billie Jean was entertaining https://www.youtube.com/w...6cGdCcU1uM

[Edited 7/12/16 23:10pm]

Glindathegood said:

alphastreet said:

Glindathegood said:

I'm not knocking Michael Jackson at all. I'm merely pointing out that you don't have to play an instrument excellently to be a great songwriter. Michael and Madonna were/are both great songwriters but not virtuoso on instruments.

Madonna, MJ and Prince were/are all heavyweights. Why not respect all of them and not knock anyone down.

You say MJ was an entertainer. Well, isn't Madonna too? Aren't her shows multi dimensional extraganzas that involve dancing and video and other elements besides merely singing.

What is the main difference between Madonna and MJ/Prince. She's the only female one. Us women always have to prove ourselves more than men. Our talent is always questioned. I think sexism rears its ugly head here a lot.

Agree with this. Never got why mj or prince fans could not stand her or them being mentioned in the same sentence.

I can, and i'm a fan of both of them Michael and Prince; or may i say three of them?

Somebody here, likes Has To Be song and Drowned World song? for me these two are, two of her best songs in her whole career