214 said:

NorthC said:

214 said:

Ok so, Europeans are the superior ones, right?

Don't worry. The Maya were building pyramids and studying the stars and making beautiful art and the most accurate calender in the world when Europe was still in the Dark Ages. [Edited 4/1/16 13:16pm]

Oh bitch do not be polite with me.

I think the reason why some musicians and/or music critics appeal to European artists, tastes,
and conventions is because the Europeans are largely the architects of western ideals/tastes and
conventions. If any of you can read music or play music, you're learning what is mostly a Euro-
pean art form. But, it is kinda shortsighted to gaze at the American contribution to western
music and say, "Meh." The greatest art form America has produced, which has been the only
musical art form that has been as creatively innovative as those forged by all those magisterial
western European classical music composers, probably ending with Stravinsky, is jazz, in my hum-
ble opinion. After Stravinsky died, Europe's production of classical composers hasn't been so hot,
again, in my humble opinion. If you're looking for modern compositions that have interesting and
formidable constructions that are just as innovative as what Beethoven was doing with his late
string quartets; or what Wagner was doing in Tristan und Isolde; or what Chopin, Debussy, and
Schoenberg were doing harmonically, look to jazz! So, we Americans have been able to produce
enduring art in many forms just as proudly as Europeans have. That being said, there's a reason
why Prince and D'Angelo and other "serious" musicians head over to Europe to break in new stuff
or keep their careers going.

I think the reason why some in this board cannot "see" or "hear" the Beatles' influence or impact
on music is because of two reasons:

1) you're too young, or, we are too far removed from the time when the Beatles were persistently
active in American and western pop culture. The further we move away from a transformative, or
any event in history, the more the gleam from that particular moment wanes. Today, if I see a
video clip of Jackie Robinson on ESPN, I'll go: "Hey! That's Jackie Robinson - cool!" But if this was
1947 and I saw footage of Jackie Robinson on TV, I'd lose my mind because I really, really love
baseball and I'm Black. Everywhere you look in sports today, you see his influence as he helped
other professional teams bring in Black players. But seeing Jackie Robinson on TV doesn't excite me
like it would have when he first burst on the scene in the 40s because that was almost seventy years
ago. So, the further away from a moment in time we get, the more that moment's glittering and
shimmering weakens for us - the more it gets lost to time.

2) you have no idea how to spot the Beatles influence or impact on the music scene because you
don't know anything about A) the scene; you simply do not know how to see/hear how one artist
has an influence on another; B) the Beatles; you simply do not have any familiarity with their music
so you really cannot see/hear how their music has managed to be so influential.

NorthC said:

Graycap23 said:

Plain English.........Europeaons always overstate their importance and role in history. Why should music be immune?

Show me an American Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin, Tolstoy, Flaubert, Cervantes, Rembrandt, Vermeer, Van Gogh, Spinoza, Nietschze, Socrates, Da Vinci, Moliere, Michelangelo and then we'll talk. Okay?

Are you serious? Are you discounting the contributions of Americans to music and art??????

SeventeenDayze said:

duccichucka said:

I think the reason why some musicians and/or music critics appeal to European artists, tastes,
and conventions is because the Europeans are largely the architects of western ideals/tastes and
conventions. If any of you can read music or play music, you're learning what is mostly a Euro-
pean art form.

Lol.........Europeans were living in caves when all of these things were Invented by the People of Kemet.

I'd say get a clue........but I don't have to.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

I think the reason why some musicians and/or music critics appeal to European artists, tastes,
and conventions is because the Europeans are largely the architects of western ideals/tastes and
conventions. If any of you can read music or play music, you're learning what is mostly a Euro-
pean art form.

Lol.........Europeans were living in caves when all of these things were Invented by the People of Kemet.

I'd say get a clue........but I don't have to.

The brazen ethnocentric attitude is just amazing.....all while denying the impact of black musicians on the ones who then COPIED the music by the black artists....

Post #487:

Did the Beatles really impact this thread??

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

I think the reason why some musicians and/or music critics appeal to European artists, tastes,
and conventions is because the Europeans are largely the architects of western ideals/tastes and
conventions. If any of you can read music or play music, you're learning what is mostly a Euro-
pean art form.

Lol.........Europeans were living in caves when all of these things were Invented by the People of Kemet.

I'd say get a clue........but I don't have to.

Yeah, Gray, the people of Kemet, that's cool. But western music conventions are not based
upon anything that stems out of a Kemetic culture. I'm sorry, but there is no evidence that
that particular culture had anything to do with western culture's music. If there is evidence,
please provide!

SeventeenDayze said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol.........Europeans were living in caves when all of these things were Invented by the People of Kemet.

I'd say get a clue........but I don't have to.

The brazen ethnocentric attitude is just amazing.....all while denying the impact of black musicians on the ones who then COPIED the music by the black artists....

Black musicians did not impact Europe's original conceptions of and advances of the west's con-
ception of music. If you read my post carefully, instead of allowing the estrus you have to mind-
lessly criticize anything I post to get the best of you, you'll see that I specifically mention that I
think that the most innovative music since all of those white male composers in Europe, ending
with Stravinsky, are jazz composers, i.e., Black musicians. I'm tickled that you two seem to think
that I am a Europhile to the detriment of my being Black.

Are you and Graycap musicians? Do you understand how the western system of music is arranged
and styled? You see, this is my point exactly: there are people questioning whether or not the
Beatles actually influenced music but they don't know anything about music, for example: western
music has 12 tones whereas in places like India, there's many more. Even in the Middle East,
their tonal structure contains some differences with western music: if you listen to some Indian
classical music, you will hear notes that have no representation in western music. But all of jazz,
the most interesting American art form ever, imo, and one founded by Blacks, is based upon a
system set up by Europeans.

duccichucka said:

SeventeenDayze said:

The brazen ethnocentric attitude is just amazing.....all while denying the impact of black musicians on the ones who then COPIED the music by the black artists....

Black musicians did not impact Europe's original conceptions of and advances of the west's con-
ception of music. If you read my post carefully, instead of allowing the estrus you have to mind-
lessly criticize anything I post to get the best of you, you'll see that I specifically mention that I
think that the most innovative music since all of those white male composers in Europe, ending
with Stravinsky, are jazz composers, i.e., Black musicians. I'm tickled that you two seem to think
that I am a Europhile to the detriment of my being Black.

Are you and Graycap musicians? Do you understand how the western system of music is arranged
and styled? You see, this is my point exactly: there are people questioning whether or not the
Beatles actually influenced music but they don't know anything about music, for example: western
music has 12 tones whereas in places like India, there's many more. Even in the Middle East,
their tonal structure contains some differences with western music: if you listen to some Indian
classical music, you will hear notes that have no representation in western music. But all of jazz,
the most interesting American art form ever, imo, and one founded by Blacks, is based upon a
system set up by Europeans.

Lol........I've only been a musician for 30 years.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

Black musicians did not impact Europe's original conceptions of and advances of the west's con-
ception of music. If you read my post carefully, instead of allowing the estrus you have to mind-
lessly criticize anything I post to get the best of you, you'll see that I specifically mention that I
think that the most innovative music since all of those white male composers in Europe, ending
with Stravinsky, are jazz composers, i.e., Black musicians. I'm tickled that you two seem to think
that I am a Europhile to the detriment of my being Black.

Are you and Graycap musicians? Do you understand how the western system of music is arranged
and styled? You see, this is my point exactly: there are people questioning whether or not the
Beatles actually influenced music but they don't know anything about music, for example: western
music has 12 tones whereas in places like India, there's many more. Even in the Middle East,
their tonal structure contains some differences with western music: if you listen to some Indian
classical music, you will hear notes that have no representation in western music. But all of jazz,
the most interesting American art form ever, imo, and one founded by Blacks, is based upon a
system set up by Europeans.

Lol........I've only been a musician for 30 years.

I don't understand the "LOL." I asked you if you could provide evidence that western music is
sourced by the people of Kemet. And my point to to Dayze is to highlight that Prince's music,
Thelonious Monk's music, Mozart's music, 2Pac's music, and Brahm's music - western music -
is all based upon the same European source.

Chill out, bro-bro.

duccichucka said:

Graycap23 said:

Lol........I've only been a musician for 30 years.

I don't understand the "LOL." I asked you if you could provide evidence that western music is
sourced by the people of Kemet. And my point to to Dayze is to highlight that Prince's music,
Thelonious Monk's music, Mozart's music, 2Pac's music, and Brahm's music - western music -
is all based upon the same European source.

Chill out, bro-bro.

You are a walking talking cliche.

There is a REASON why The Afrikan's HISTORY as been destroyed.

Enjoy your misinformation.

Graycap23 said:

duccichucka said:

I don't understand the "LOL." I asked you if you could provide evidence that western music is
sourced by the people of Kemet. And my point to to Dayze is to highlight that Prince's music,
Thelonious Monk's music, Mozart's music, 2Pac's music, and Brahm's music - western music -
is all based upon the same European source.

Chill out, bro-bro.

You are a walking talking cliche.

There is a REASON why The Afrikan's HISTORY as been destroyed.

Enjoy your misinformation.

Gray, you make no sense:

If the Afrikan's HISTORY {h}as been destroyed, then how do you know anything about them?
If the history of the Kemetic people and their influence on music has been lost to time or purpose-
fully blotted out by some nefarious historian(s), how do you know that they were actually who you
say they were? If you do have access to some type of information that the Kemetic people were
an influence on western music, what is it? How did you come across Kemetic history and their in-
fluence on western music if the Afrikan's HISTORY {h}as been destroyed? Your hostitlity towards
me is so strange, but your reasoning here is stranger.

Like I said: the reason why so many western musicians and music critics look towards the ideals
initially established by Europeans is because they started this shit! But! Today, if you want to
talk about what is innovative in western music, I say you have to refer mostly to modern jazz, i.e.,
Parker, Davis, Monk, Coltrane, etc.

If the Afrikan's HISTORY {h}as been destroyed, then how do you know anything about them?
If the history of the Kemetic people and their influence on music has been lost to time or purpose-
fully blotted out by some nefarious historian(s), how do you know that they were actually who you
say they were? If you do have access to some type of information that the Kemetic people were
an influence on western music, what is it? How did you come across Kemetic history and their in-
fluence on western music if the Afrikan's HISTORY {h}as been destroyed? Your hostitlity towards
me is so strange, but your reasoning here is stranger.

Like I said: the reason why so many western musicians and music critics look towards the ideals
initially established by Europeans is because they started this shit! But! Today, if you want to
talk about what is innovative in western music, I say you have to refer mostly to modern jazz, i.e.,
Parker, Davis, Monk, Coltrane, etc.

You have a lot of women mentioning on your profile as hobbys ducci.

The title of this thread is "Did The Beatles Really Impact Music??" The answer is clearly "Yes".

Why the impact of other artists is being brought up is a mystery, as that has nothing to do with the title of this thread.

post deleted

[Edited 4/5/16 12:47pm]

Of course they did. I understand SD's point that their influence may not be as pronounced for folks in SD's generation. But the answer is yes.

namepeace said:

I understand SD's point that their influence may not be as pronounced for folks in SD's generation.

Maybe. But Dayze's generation struggles to detect possible Beatle influences because they don't
have the skills to do so. For example, most people take the album format as a cohesive artistic
statement from a recording artist for granted: "Oh great! So-and-so just put out a new album
that isn't just a random collection of hopeful singles. Cool!" Well, who started this trend?

You guessed right.

Most people in today's generation are simply numbskulls, even though I do agree that the Beatles'
influence, like Elvis' influence, and Hendrix's influence, and Dylan's influence, and Mayfield's in-
fluence, and Ellington's influence, begins to wane. But to ask if the Beatles REALLY impacted mu-
sic is such an ignorant question - and I mean ignorant not in a condemnatory way, but ignorant
in it's original sense. People just don't know their shit about music history and spotting influences
has become something for a few.

And it possible that I'm simply a curmudgeon.

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay, so the British Invasion was DECADES before my time but I have often wondered if the Beatles were a product of media hype/PR machine or did they have a bonafide impact on music. I'm not talking about whether or not they had scores of screaming, fainting fans (they did obviously) but did they have an impact on music? I see an artist like David Bowie who obviously had a huge impact on the direction of music in the 70s but I don't know if I'm convinced the Beatles had that much of an impact. I welcome the comments from those old enough to remember that era and/or music historians (Yes, that means YOU MickeyDolenz)

Well considering The Beatles impacted David Bowie with alter ego character based albums being their pioneering landmark first with Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band in 1967... and that's just the obvious way they influenced Bowie.

But really, all it takes is to look at album and song styles chronologically to figure out the impact of The Beatles on the world of music.

There's accomplished jazz musicians that covered and interpreted Beatles tracks, you had R&B gods interpreting their tracks. They weren't accomplished musicians... They were accomplished artists. There is a difference.

But, just like Prince, they were blending all their influences and combining Chuck Berry with Lewis Carroll... and beyond. And still hitting the charts in a most popular way all the way to the last album and then even into their solo careers.

[Edited 4/5/16 10:01am]