free2bfreeda said:

just a suggestion.

You mean

purplethunder3121 said:

free2bfreeda said:

just a suggestion.

You mean

in this case goodbye, goodbye!

what started out as an interesting debate, has seemingly turned n2 wookie dookie. just sayin.

[Edited 2/22/16 18:29pm]

MickyDolenz said:

Graycap23 said:

People in modern music cover simple songs that were sucessuful. What I find really interesting about the Beatles is that most of the covers that I enjoy of their material is BETTER than the Beatles versions.

New Kids & KISS were successful and had popular songs. KISS has a casket you can buy to be buried in. An act has to be popular for someone to buy that. They do not get covered to nowhere near the extent of the Beatles. Yesterday has been remade over 2,000 times. Rock N Roll All Nite and Hangin' Tough hasn't.

Wait a minute. New Kids as in New Kids on the Block? Are we seriously bringing them up in this proof even after you said that the topic was going off track? I'm done LOL

bobzilla77 said:

It's impossble to put ourselves back in 1963 and live in a world where the Beatles don't exist yet. A lot of their impact was on things so basic and obvious, we take them for granted now. So I understand why it's hard for someone to see it.

But just to pinpoint one event - their appearance on Ed Sullivan in 1964 - there are many, many testimonies from people who went on to start their own important bands soon after, that seeing that on TV for the first time changed their lives. It's one of the first modern pop groups with no obvious leader, but four interesting characters. And while they sound great, they also look like they're doing something YOU might be able to learn to do. A million garage bands get formed in the week after that show, and some of those go on to become big.

Also, go back and read ANY interview with a prominent pop musician in 1964-66 and see if they talk about the Beatles.

Thank you for this post. It was clear, not accusatory and you state your observations taking into consideration that I made it clear that I wasn't around during that time. I wish others were as rational as you were here. Thanks for the comments. Yes, from that perspective I can see how they had an impact on music in terms of them being a catalyst for other young people to want to start bands. But I often wonder about what life was like before most people had TVs. It's funny to imagine what life was like before that time.

2freaky4church1 said:

Dolenz is a hack. He doesn't even like Prince.

I love him, remember that. Kisses Dolenz.

Do you know how many bands were influenced by the Beatles? Almost every major pop group.

Black Sabbath influenced many too, as did Led Zeppelin, as does James Brown. The Beatles did more. They also got the best reviews from critics than any other artist except for Bob Dylan who is their boy.

Almost all their albums get 5 star reviews. They have at least a hundred flawless songs.

So from what you're saying we can thank the Beatles for giving birth to the movement that started hip hop huh? LOL Yeah, let's take this song below by Kendrick Lamar (who won best rap album...FINALLY). This song is so Beatles huh? LOL

[Edited 2/22/16 18:38pm]

[Edited 2/22/16 18:46pm]

SoulAlive said:

I can't believe the stuff I'm reading in this thread.Bob Marley is nowhere near the Beatles in terms of popularity,influence and talent.Y'all are funny

Yeah I also found that very hard to believe especially since they were saying that Bob Marley was bigger than Michael Jackson....impossible, utterly impossible!

Graycap23 said:

Why do you folks always get so upset because everyone doesn't buy into the Beatles mystic?

Now there are trolls asking for the thread to be locked. Why? What's wrong with this thread? Nothing. I'm sure if I would have started a thread questioning the impact of Little Richard no one would have a problem agreeing with that and wouldn't dare suggest locking the thread. There is one particular person in this thread who trolls me on EVERY thread that I post so I'm not surpised she's trying to get this thread locked because the question posed would also make some people re-evaluate their perspective on what's significant/important in music history and culture overall.

why not

yes the beatles did impact music.

when the majority says yes,

[Edited 2/22/16 18:52pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

Wait a minute. New Kids as in New Kids on the Block? Are we seriously bringing them up in this proof even after you said that the topic was going off track? I'm done LOL

It is on topic. Gray said that The Beatles songs were remade a lot because they were simple & popular. NKOTB had popular and simple songs, so why weren't they covered by many acts if that's all it is?

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Wait a minute. New Kids as in New Kids on the Block? Are we seriously bringing them up in this proof even after you said that the topic was going off track? I'm done LOL

It is on topic. Gray said that The Beatles songs were remade a lot because they were simple & popular. NKOTB had popular and simple songs, so why weren't they covered by many acts if that's all it is?

Oh, so it's on topic because YOU say it's on topic? Man, you ALWAYS shift the goalposts when it suits you, I swear Mickey! Anyway, I think you could see the influence of NKOTB on boy bands of the late 90s. Oddly enough, they are called "boy bands" but they didn't play instruments. They are "dance acts" who also sang. So, with that in mind, since the Beatles didn't dance WHO influenced these boys bands??????

SeventeenDayze said:

So from what you're saying we can thank the Beatles for giving birth to the movement that started hip hop huh? LOL Yeah, let's take this song below by Kendrick Lamar (who won best rap album...FINALLY). This song is so Beatles huh? LOL

That poster said pop bands. What does that have to do with rap? There's very few bands in hip hop. Anyway, Andre 3000 remade this Beatles song

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

So from what you're saying we can thank the Beatles for giving birth to the movement that started hip hop huh? LOL Yeah, let's take this song below by Kendrick Lamar (who won best rap album...FINALLY). This song is so Beatles huh? LOL

That poster said pop bands. What does that have to do with rap? There's very few bands in hip hop. Anyway, Andre 3000 remade this Beatles song

Okay, which is it? Are you saying the Beatles are a rock band or pop band? It seems like when I make a valid point you change the focus of the conversation. Come on already So, a lot of you are hung up on black artists that have done Beatles covers but you don't seem to press the issue that the Beatles COVERED The Isley Brothers, Little Richard, etc. Why is that? Anyway, I think more Americans (as opposed to Brits) are more likley to be dismissive or downplay the influence of black artists on the Beatles. I don't think I've ever met a British person or Irish person for that matter who has ever downplayed the obvious influence here...

SeventeenDayze said:

Oh, so it's on topic because YOU say it's on topic? Man, you ALWAYS shift the goalposts when it suits you, I swear Mickey! Anyway, I think you could see the influence of NKOTB on boy bands of the late 90s. Oddly enough, they are called "boy bands" but they didn't play instruments. They are "dance acts" who also sang. So, with that in mind, since the Beatles didn't dance WHO influenced these boys bands??????

That's not a remake, so it has nothing to do with what I said. NKOTB was literally a copy of New Edition. Both groups even came from the same city, Boston. That's why they were named "New Kids On The Block". So NE started the trend, not the New Kids. After NE became popular, labels signed other teen groups but they were not as popular like 4 By Four and Kids At Work. Anyway, NE sued the head of the record label (Maurice Starr) that their first album was on. Starr produced that album too. After NE got out of the contract, Maurice Starr went to find a white teen group because he figured he could make more money with them. Marky Mark was originally in the group before they were discovered by Starr, but he wanted to rap, not sing and dance, so he left the group. The New Kids debut album flopped, but when the 2nd album Hangin Tough was released, it blew up and did way more business than New Edition. NKOTB became so popular that it also started the sales on the flop debut and it went double platinum at the time.

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay, which is it? Are you saying the Beatles are a rock band or pop band? It seems like when I make a valid point you change the focus of the conversation. Come on already So, a lot of you are hung up on black artists that have done Beatles covers but you don't seem to press the issue that the Beatles COVERED The Isley Brothers, Little Richard, etc. Why is that? Anyway, I think more Americans (as opposed to Brits) are more likley to be dismissive or downplay the influence of black artists on the Beatles. I don't think I've ever met a British person or Irish person for that matter who has ever downplayed the obvious influence here...

I'm pretty sure someone posted some pictures of The Beatles with Little Richard in this thread. You can look at old threads on this subject and folks have mentioned who the Beatles were influenced by. There's no point in saying the same things over and over that have been said in the older threads. Especially since the question was did the Beatles influence music, not who influenced the Beatles. So you can go into search and look up the earlier threads since you claim people are downplaying.

The Jackson 5 singing Let It Be on Jim Nabors in 1970 and then again four years later in 1974 on the Tonight Show/and Alicia Keys and John Legend / also Justin Bieber with Santana.

to further the point

List of cover versions of Beatles songs

: https://en.wikipedia.org/...tles_songs

[Edited 2/22/16 20:40pm]

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Oh, so it's on topic because YOU say it's on topic? Man, you ALWAYS shift the goalposts when it suits you, I swear Mickey! Anyway, I think you could see the influence of NKOTB on boy bands of the late 90s. Oddly enough, they are called "boy bands" but they didn't play instruments. They are "dance acts" who also sang. So, with that in mind, since the Beatles didn't dance WHO influenced these boys bands??????

That's not a remake, so it has nothing to do with what I said. NKOTB was literally a copy of New Edition. Both groups even came from the same city, Boston. That's why they were named "New Kids On The Block". So NE started the trend, not the New Kids. After NE became popular, labels signed other teen groups but they were not as popular like 4 By Four and Kids At Work. Anyway, NE sued the head of the record label (Maurice Starr) that their first album was on. Starr produced that album too. After NE got out of the contract, Maurice Starr went to find a white teen group because he figured he could make more money with them. Marky Mark was originally in the group before they were discovered by Starr, but he wanted to rap, not sing and dance, so he left the group. The New Kids debut album flopped, but when the 2nd album Hangin Tough was released, it blew up and did way more business than New Edition. NKOTB became so popular that it also started the sales on the flop debut and it went double platinum at the time.

Well, who influenced New Edition then?

MickyDolenz said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Okay, which is it? Are you saying the Beatles are a rock band or pop band? It seems like when I make a valid point you change the focus of the conversation. Come on already So, a lot of you are hung up on black artists that have done Beatles covers but you don't seem to press the issue that the Beatles COVERED The Isley Brothers, Little Richard, etc. Why is that? Anyway, I think more Americans (as opposed to Brits) are more likley to be dismissive or downplay the influence of black artists on the Beatles. I don't think I've ever met a British person or Irish person for that matter who has ever downplayed the obvious influence here...

I'm pretty sure someone posted some pictures of The Beatles with Little Richard in this thread. You can look at old threads on this subject and folks have mentioned who the Beatles were influenced by. There's no point in saying the same things over and over that have been said in the older threads. Especially since the question was did the Beatles influence music, not who influenced the Beatles. So you can go into search and look up the earlier threads since you claim people are downplaying.

Well, what do you think music historians 100 years from now will say about the impact of the Beatles? Do you think historians will overlook Little Richard? Will they overlook the Isley Brothers? History tends to be twisted to fit an agenda. I'm afraid this will happen when it comes to music history of the 20th century. I mean honestly, there are people in the United States who have no idea that Garret A. Morgan invented the traffic light but think about how that invention changed the world...

[Edited 2/22/16 21:11pm]

This is for those of you who are hung up on "remakes" proving things...LOL. Luis Miguel is one of the BIGGEST stars in Latin America, and especially in Mexico. SO......

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

But are you doing the reverse- DENYING the Beatles greatness because of their background ?

You guys are being ridiculous. I'm showing videos that demonstrate that the Beatles lifted their sound from other artists but you all just can't accept that...I have told you SEVERAL times that I like the Sgt. Pepper's album but you're just glossing right over that detail huh?

But there is nothing new here- the Beatles readily admitted that their idols were Chuck Berry , Little Richard, Fats Domino, Arthur Alexander....and Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins...and songwriters like Goffin and King and Burt Bacharach. What is your point ? They never his their influences or denied them

Graycap23 said:

NorthC said:

C'mon everybody, this is going nowhere. Gray & Dayze have already made up their minds that the Fabs were unimportant and nothing, not even George Clinton saying they were his favorite band, is going to change that. Move along folks, nothing to see here.

It really isn't about my mind being made up........I actually listened to the MUSIC.

It's simpleton music, simpleton lyrics, it doesn't move me in any way.

It really is about the music isn't it?

You have a right to your opinion, right or wrong as it may be...

But do you also consider Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Ray Charles, Holland-Dozier-Holland, Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield also to be "simpleton music, simpleton lyrics" for the masses ?

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

You guys are being ridiculous. I'm showing videos that demonstrate that the Beatles lifted their sound from other artists but you all just can't accept that...I have told you SEVERAL times that I like the Sgt. Pepper's album but you're just glossing right over that detail huh?

But there is nothing new here- the Beatles readily admitted that their idols were Chuck Berry , Little Richard, Fats Domino, Arthur Alexander....and Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins...and songwriters like Goffin and King and Burt Bacharach. What is your point ? They never his their influences or denied them

Well, it's not a stretch of the imagination to say that throughout American history, there have been conscious efforts to diminsh or in some cases ERASE the history of people who are not of European decent. I remember in school, the ONLY history that was taught was European history. No exceptions. I think there may have been a few sentences here and there about black history but it wasn't much and I remember a teacher once tried to have me suspended from school for asking her why she didn't teach black art. Yes, I was fucking 11 years old threatened with suspension because I wanted to learn about black art. I think THAT is what is heartbreaking sometimes. Every great artist has their influences but the way that history books are written, the way that historians shape the narrative has a powerful impact on how people in the future perceive historical events. It's the NARRATIVE of how music history will be perceived to be by the masses in the future. Imagine if someone in 100 years wrote about 20th century music and didn't include David Bowie and then tried to explain "glam rock" without talking about David Bowie because he wasn't as "commercially successful" as say Duran Duran. How can you have a discussion about British new wave music without talking about David Bowie who, albeit was NOT new wave, had a significant impact on music that is STILL SEEN. I mean do you people think that because Duran Duran was HOT back in the 80s that their music had a long lasting impact on music? Not at all...The Beatles were the "Duran Duran" of the 60s....

jjhunsecker said:

Graycap23 said:

It really isn't about my mind being made up........I actually listened to the MUSIC.

It's simpleton music, simpleton lyrics, it doesn't move me in any way.

It really is about the music isn't it?

You have a right to your opinion, right or wrong as it may be...

But do you also consider Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Ray Charles, Holland-Dozier-Holland, Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield also to be "simpleton music, simpleton lyrics" for the masses ?

Smokey Robinson was the undisputed author of the sound of the 60s. Hands down. How could you put him in the same sentence with the word "simpleton"??

Graycap23 said:

Empress said:

Some people just can't stand the fact that the Beatles are loved and admired all over the world for the last 50+ years.

This makes no sense.

There are quite a few artist where you can CLEARLY see/hear their impact.

James Brown

Pfunk

Hendrix

Prince......etc.

There are some like the Beatles..........wher I simply don't HEAR it.

There are ton's of cover songs, but that is due t the fact that they make simple music that anyone can do. You don't see cover songs of complicated music.

[Edited 2/22/16 9:54am]

[Edited 2/22/16 9:56am]

Here are some artists who were influenced by The Beatles : The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, The Hollies, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Jeff Beck, Jimi Hendrix , Sly Stone (who used to slip in Beatles songs amongst the R&B hits when he was a DJ on the radio), Yes, Genesis, The Moody Blues, Squeeze, Elvis Costello, The Jam, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen, The Ramones, Nirvana (Kurt Cobain said he envisioned his group as a cross between The Beatles and Black Sabbath)....do you know any of these people ? They are all pretty famous musicians...

[Edited 2/22/16 21:36pm]

SeventeenDayze said:

bobzilla77 said:

It's impossble to put ourselves back in 1963 and live in a world where the Beatles don't exist yet. A lot of their impact was on things so basic and obvious, we take them for granted now. So I understand why it's hard for someone to see it.

But just to pinpoint one event - their appearance on Ed Sullivan in 1964 - there are many, many testimonies from people who went on to start their own important bands soon after, that seeing that on TV for the first time changed their lives. It's one of the first modern pop groups with no obvious leader, but four interesting characters. And while they sound great, they also look like they're doing something YOU might be able to learn to do. A million garage bands get formed in the week after that show, and some of those go on to become big.

Also, go back and read ANY interview with a prominent pop musician in 1964-66 and see if they talk about the Beatles.

Thank you for this post. It was clear, not accusatory and you state your observations taking into consideration that I made it clear that I wasn't around during that time. I wish others were as rational as you were here. Thanks for the comments. Yes, from that perspective I can see how they had an impact on music in terms of them being a catalyst for other young people to want to start bands. But I often wonder about what life was like before most people had TVs. It's funny to imagine what life was like before that time.

You didn't have to be around at that time to appreciate and see it;s greatness- I wasn't around in the 1950s to hear Miles Davis at Birdland or Hank Williams at the Grand Ol Opry- but I still know they were great talents....

SeventeenDayze said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Dolenz is a hack. He doesn't even like Prince.

I love him, remember that. Kisses Dolenz.

Do you know how many bands were influenced by the Beatles? Almost every major pop group.

Black Sabbath influenced many too, as did Led Zeppelin, as does James Brown. The Beatles did more. They also got the best reviews from critics than any other artist except for Bob Dylan who is their boy.

Almost all their albums get 5 star reviews. They have at least a hundred flawless songs.

So from what you're saying we can thank the Beatles for giving birth to the movement that started hip hop huh? LOL Yeah, let's take this song below by Kendrick Lamar (who won best rap album...FINALLY). This song is so Beatles huh? LOL

[Edited 2/22/16 18:38pm]

[Edited 2/22/16 18:46pm]

That's like saying Frank Sinatra or Bach is no good because they don't use the break from "Funky Drummer"....There are different styles of music, and they can each have greatness in their own way