but it's you and a few others.
Thriller era: videos, which showed non-stop, stickers, posters with his picture, dolls, etc. he was beautiful, people liked not just listen to his songs, but also to look at him too. it was a huge part of his success. All the girls from Angelina Jolie to Celine Dion were in love with him and bought all that it involves. this is how to create giant stars, especially the pop star.

Yes, the beauty and luster - components of the pop star.
I think that with his natural looks, he probably would have reached the level of popularity and success of Off the Wall, as an absolute maximum, but not the 80's and Jacksonomania

Now let's not talk about the natural beauty and imposing perverse standards of beauty.

we're talking about a guy who was a child star and who devoted his entire life to it and was taught from early childhood that he should be number 1 .... if his looks has become an obstacle to achieving this goal, he changed it. but he did not really need the absolute alteration, rhinoplasty - that's all he needed. his eyes, lips, cheeks and chin looked good by nature. but it is from the category of inexplicable.

LiLi1992 said:

but it's you and a few others.
Thriller era: videos, which showed non-stop, stickers, posters with his picture, dolls, etc. he was beautiful, people liked not just listen to his songs, but also to look at him too. it was a huge part of his success. All the girls from Angelina Jolie to Celine Dion were in love with him and bought all that it involves. this is how to create giant stars, especially the pop star.

Yes, the beauty and luster - components of the pop star.
I think that with his natural looks, he probably would have reached the level of popularity and success of Off the Wall, as an absolute maximum, but not the 80's and Jacksonomania

Now let's not talk about the natural beauty and imposing perverse standards of beauty.

we're talking about a guy who was a child star and who devoted his entire life to it and was taught from early childhood that he should be number 1 .... if his looks has become an obstacle to achieving this goal, he changed it. but he did not really need the absolute alteration, rhinoplasty - that's all he needed. his eyes, lips, cheeks and chin looked good by nature. but it is from the category of inexplicable.

u absolutely right....1000% percent......

yes, from day one, the day he signed w/Motown, he was groomed to be the #1 star on the globe......

but think about it, the means in which Michael was led to believe he could achieved that #1 status is what eventually undermined his talent, his career, and his livelihood...

because of the way he was groomed, he thought he reached the very pinnacle because of the fact he changed himself, even if it was done in "moderation" in the beginning...but things excaserbated because he thought "changing" would lead to greater success when it never did....

it was the TALENT that rose him to the highest heights..

when he unleashed that OFF THE WALL, people were enamored w/the talent

when he performed MOTOWN 25, people spoke on the amazing talent perspective, not the fact having plastic surgery opened up the doors to achieve what he did

when he unleashed those unforgettable videos during THRILLER, people talked about the amazing dances, and choreography and entertainment value

when the world became captivated, when the united states were THRILLED, they emulated the dances, the voice and the song, the celebrated the music...NOT THE PLASTIC SURGERY.....

and if he would have understood that, or I should say realized that, he never would have taken it a step further, or I should say, having plastic surgery to begin with

see, the means eventuallyed destroyed the ends.....

although beauty really contributed to his greater popularity and success, I think that the reasons for hhis subsequent metamorphosis are deeper and more serious.
I do not think it was inspired by---> I changed my nose and became the biggest star on the planet ... hmm, what happens if I change anything else?
though what would have been his motives, they clearly do not justify what he did to himself.
mental problems he had serious.

but now it does not matter what he looked like, it all pales in comparison with accusations of child abuse ... the last thing I want to believe

Scorp said:

whatsgoingon said:

I am sorry Scorp as much as I admire the Jacksons, although I do not care much for Joe Jackson, the family are greedy. What is the point of sueing AEG for $40000 billion? Even if MJ made it through the concerts he probably would not have made more than 400, million at the very most. Dr Murray is in prison for Manslaughter so it would make more sense to be suing him than AEG. But of course they will not do that because he he is practically bankrupt.

Yes the family supported him in his time of need, but he was practically supporting his mother financially as well as a large number of his nephews and nieces which his 2 brothers Jermaine and Randy decided to dump on their mother.

Now, AEG will be starting their defense soon, if someone like me who has great admiration for Katherine Jackson can see the glaring greed can you imagine how AEG will make her and the rest of the family look in court.

And stop mixing up the family blatant greed with MJ own issues. Even if MJ laid off the surgery and lived a more "normal" life that still does not stop the family being filled with greed. Going on about if only MJ stayed "natural" is neither here or there. As much as I had doubts before I am not going to argue with an offical autopsy report: the guy had vitiligo, yea he may have bleach to try and even his skin out and he still did too much surgery, but that still does not absolve the family of their blatant greed.

[Edited 7/10/13 1:57am]

and after everything you said, you played right into the hands of the hostile view the guy I responded to last night who claim the Jacksons carry on the stereotype of the greedy black family, as this one single family has been "dumped" on by the public realm for well over a quarter century by a society who has been manipulated, misled, and conned into believing anything and everything but the truth

we speak on the effects rather than discerning the cause

we say guys were leeches based on the impression gived, but have no idea how these guys careers were sabotaged 22 years ago.....

and commercial media has been rippin the jacksons to shreds loooooooooooooooooong before the notion was presented they were after somebody's money, the family dynamic was already destroyed by the end of the 80s

but nothing is eeeeeeeeever mentioned about other familys battling over money, real money, money that' actually tangible for decades

see, you respond to my post because you want to believe the notion the family is greedy, but yuo didn't say one iota about a guy who "dumped" by suggesting they play into the stereotype of being a "greedy black family" when his viewpoint is warped.......

for being greedy has absolutely nothing to do with representing stereotypes or what color we are, that behavior stems from the human element when that notion actually applies

for this AEG trial aint about money as much as it is about something else altogether but that's another subject

as far as the plastic surgery goes, I'm totally against it when ANYBODY has too much surgery, rather it's Michael Jackson or somebody else, these public figures who are destroying their body and countenance, and their well being don't need it, never did, and the only reason they are doing it is because society puts the pressure on them to do so........

if a white person, asian person, latino, south american, european, african, or a person of any other culture has too much surgery I'm totally against it....

society needs to check itself, especially those who don't represent the realm of authenticity, who send out the hints, the suggestions, the queues and create the environment that forces indivudals to destroy themselves trying to achieve a look motivated in the need to please them and to be accepted.......

I think it's totally criminal, and not smooth criminal at that.....

[Edited 7/10/13 3:51am]

Oh please Scorp, lets call a spade a spade, the AEG trial is about money and nothing else. The most ardent Jackson family fan can see that. If it were about principals they would have sued Dr Murray fully knowing they would not get a penny. Please don't do all your psycho babble on me because it does not work.

I understand the family dynamics. I am also aware MJ had serious issues. But I am also aware that family is full of greed. These are all different issues which we can choose discuss separately but it is you who likes to bring your psycho babble to make a big issue.

[Edited 7/10/13 13:18pm]

LiLi1992 said:

Although I am against the series of surgeries that are changing the shape of the person, I believe that a couple of them are permissible if it will make someone happier and get rid of complexes.

Michael was very cute as a child. but after 15 his appearance greatly deteriorated, he looked OK (better than some of his brothers), but not good enough for a major pop star of the planet, so I do not mind the first few plastic surgery, I think they were justified and well-made he was really a very beautiful guy .... up to a point, of course... then it all became uncontrollable.

I think he did go through an awkward change between 15 and 18, but once he hit 19/20 I think he looked gorgeous. True his nose was on the big side, but it gave his face character and stopped him looking to girly. All you need to do is look at the interview he did in 1978 at studio 54, he had this great afro with all his natural features intact and he looked gorgeous. I use to think he did his cheek bones but even when his face was clouded with that massive afro you could still see his bone structure was prominent.

The thing is MJ was at his most popular during Thriller where he had done some surgery but not too much to make him look like a completely different person. What subsequent surgery did was just make him tabloid fodder and added to ridicule rather than popularity.

^I think on the contrary that the nose was too big for his face. if he had been more masculine, as Jackie, for example, the nose would not spoil his looks, but he's always been a sissy , and the rest of his face was neat, so his big natural nose spoiled the overall impression, and was disproportionate.

although I noticed that the video camera loved him. on the video he was cute even at 17-18, but in the photo - not!

,

1979-1984 his best years in terms of appearance.

Glad to see for the most part the US media is ignoring this insane Wade and all this tired allegations stuff. Last night on Fox's So You Think I can Dance, there was this wonderful routine to MJ's Dangerous song and the crowd went crazy and the judges showed MJ love. So it just reminds you that those that hate on MJ will, while those that love MJ always will. And as for MJ's family. AEG is going to tear this family's ass apart when it's their turn. I think I read that all the Jacksons except Marlon are supposed to be called to the stand. It's no wonder AEG ignored katherine and her lawyer twice when they asked for a settlement. If that's not telling, I don't know what is. So much money is at stake and AEG doesn't go for a settlement? That says they know they got this. And weirdly its going to be validation for the MJ fans because AEG is going to expose what the fans having been saying for years about the family. Their greed, leeching, constant badgering of MJ, shadiness, stupidity, etc.

LiLi1992 said:

^I think on the contrary that the nose was too big for his face. if he had been more masculine, as Jackie, for example, the nose would not spoil his looks, but he's always been a sissy , and the rest of his face was neat, so his big natural nose spoiled the overall impression, and was disproportionate.

although I noticed that the video camera loved him. on the video he was cute even at 17-18, but in the photo - not!

,

1979-1984 his best years in terms of appearance.

I think on the contrary that the nose was too big for his face. if he had been more masculine, as Jackie, for example, the nose would not spoil his looks, but he's always been a sissy , and the rest of his face was neat, so his big natural nose spoiled the overall impression, and was disproportionate.

I rest my case.......and this level of ambivalence is what drove Michael Jackson to do what he did to himself......

see, I'm going to dissect this and point out something that's never been pointed out........

first things first......all these years, the public has been led to believe the reason MIchael had his first nose job because he broke it while rehearsing while filming for the Wiz......

but see, back in 2010, a month before his mother did that interview with Oprah.....

I sat back and just reflected on that notion, something which I never did before

I always heard about the story but it never sticked, but I couldn't understand why it didn't

the story about him breaking his nose has become part of lexicon, it has become part of the "legend"....

but I reflected, and all these years, which has been 35 years........THERE'S NEVER EVER BEEN A PICTURE RELEASED OF THE SUPPOSED INCIDENT......EVER......as prominent as Michael was, even before THRILLER, somebody with inside access would have been in position to take a photo after he was said to have broke it.....

then I thought about when this all began and how Motown tought Michael to "lie" to enhance his public image or to protect his true career ambition.....

and then all of sudden, it hit me like the juggernaut.....BOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM

and that voice said to me....that MICHAEL NEVER BROKE HIS NOSE...he had his very first nose job by CHOICE.......

now let's get to number 2..

you conveyed the notion that his nose was too wide for his face and that he looked like a sissy

but those who grew up with him as he reached adulthood never felt that, never tripped off teh size of his nose, the audience of authenticity that is.......we felt he looked like a man, just as his brothers did....if anything,

that thought never even crossed my mind once......

I would like everyone to consider this one.........

I've seen many of Michael's current fans (not all) say point blank, they would have never embraced him or became a fan of his if he never changed his being, if he never underwent extreme plastic surgery, or living in the realm of being visibly black......they said it, fans from every continent on the globe outside of the United STates.........

if that's the case, which it is......then how can a fan who holds that position criticize Joe Jackson for alledgedly mocking Michael about his nose and the shape of it.....for they are doing the very thing they've accused his father of doing

because from what I've gathered over time, many of his fans have projected their disapproval over his natural appearance than anyone else has

[Edited 7/10/13 20:37pm]

Lil, this isn't intended to be a personal attack on you, but as a person of colour myself though not black, I fully understand how scorpio finds your statement about mj's nose in it's original form problematic. You're not thinking about race when saying that, but the problem is, for mainstream media, it wasn't small/attractive enough and very oppressive on their part and that's where race comes in. There is too much plastic surgery in general as we know it in many entertainment industries and it's increased overtime. Hearing statements from his dad about his size and being told to be number one are subconscious decisions if not full. Or getting it was a response to uncontrollable acne, doing the nose if not ridding himself of the acne made him feel he had control of the situation, I do believe this is why many people who go along with surgery do it, though it can becoming addicting.

You know, before Invincible was coming out and people were hyping the big comeback, I was also wondering if young people who were little or not born would see him as black or white. When I first saw him, it was between the Thriller and Bad eras, so though I was young, I saw the transformation and just thought I was either too young to get it or it had something to do with makeup until I was older and learned about vitiligo after I heard someone say they hated him for changing. I still think he was beautiful in all the eras, but I absolutely did not become a fan based on his looks later and don't know who in their right mind would have ideas like that.

[Edited 7/11/13 8:17am]

Scorp said:

I've seen many of Michael's current fans (not all) say point blank, they would have never embraced him or became a fan of his if he never changed his being, if he never underwent extreme plastic surgery, or living in the realm of being visibly black......they said it, fans from every continent on the globe outside of the United STates.........

I know a lot of his fans, mostly Europeans, never from one person I did not hear anything like that ....
yes, 99% of these fans really prefer his looks after a couple of plastic surgery, but I've never heard that his appearance was the reason for someone to be his fan.
before I became a fan, I found his appearance in 00's a little intimidating, now I'm tolerant, but my attitude to his work his appearance does not affect in any way. I prefer his looks in 1979-1984, work in 1987-1995

Alpha,
I do not think that any big nose needs to be corrected ....
beautiful face is a harmonious face, very often a big nose is well-suited for the face. Jackie's nose was bigger, but looked good.
the fact is that specifically for the face of Michael was a good fit medium-sized nose, his natural nose looked disharmonious and disproportionate.
+ What does this have to do with race? in Hollywood, 90% of people have a nose job (white, black, Asian).

and again, we're not talking about how standards of beauty are harmful and how beautiful are people in their diversity, we talk about the importance of appearance for the pop star. huge pop stars come in two categories only: handsome and freaks, a huge audience can be attracted by beauty or eccentricity. the laws of show business.
Tell me completely honest, you are personally believe that with his natural looks MJ would have reached the level of success and popularity of the 80's?

Message from the Estate about Tabloids

We know many fans have been upset by recent tabloid stories in the UK about Michael. In his song “Tabloid Junkie” Michael Jackson sings: Just because you read it in a magazine or see it on a TV screen doesn’t make it factual.

Sadly, we were recently reminded of just how prophetic Michael’s lyrics were when these disgraceful, stale and discredited stories more than two decades old were published making unfounded allegations about Michael and so-called FBI “files.” It should be no surprise that one of the authors of this rehash has a long history of writing tabloid articles about Michael. It also should be noted that he formerly was a top editor at a scandal-ridden British tabloid that folded following revelations that the phones of celebrities, public figures and even a child murder victim were illegally hacked. Even more unseemly was one press account in which the tabloid’s source was identified as a former investigator whose license was revoked and who also has filed for bankruptcy. He isn’t denying that he was paid to tell these falsehoods, but he is boasting about his pornography career. It goes without saying that this callous and brazen disregard shown Michael’s children, family and fans is beyond reprehensible.


Responsible journalists who don’t practice checkbook journalism have thoroughly debunked this disgusting story and its unreliable sources. Showbiz411 titled its story: “ ‘FBI Files’ Are From People Discredited Long Time Ago” (http://www.showbiz411.com...g-time-ago). CNN called the London tabloid reports a “questionable” rehash while noting that, “A website can enjoy a sharp spike in traffic -- which can translate into advertising revenue -- with a sensational headline” (http://www.cnn.com/2013/0...kson-files) in describing how media can play fast and loose with the truth to drive viewers or readers to their site.


We believe unethical tabloid journalists and publications spreading falsehoods about Michael for their own selfish reasons are best ignored. Sadly, they hide shamelessly behind a legal shield allowing them to smear those who are no longer with us. As readers abandon them and their businesses collapse, they desperately seek attention and publicity. We don’t believe they deserve it, and are confident that discredited articles such as these vanish quickly and are easily forgotten.



Rest assured that Michael’s legacy is his artistic genius. It’s his humanitarian work that touched millions, and his global messages of peace. Most important, Michael’s legacy is his enduring love for his children, his family and his fans.


- John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors, The Estate Of Michael Jackson

I still support the executors, but my god, they need to do a better job of protecting and defending MJ's character. It doesn't have to always be about making money, you know? I get ignoring some stuff because you don't want to make it a bigger story, but when they are lying about FBI files, you should be rebutting that bigtime.

Anyway the Spike Lee Doc is doing well even though it is only being sold on the MJ website. Just imagine what it would be doing if it was sold in stores.

The Best of Internet @TheBestofMJJ 17h
GREAT NEWS: @SpikeLee doc Michael Jackson BAD25 enters the Billboard Top Music Videos at #11

LiLi1992 said:

^I think on the contrary that the nose was too big for his face. if he had been more masculine, as Jackie, for example, the nose would not spoil his looks, but he's always been a sissy , and the rest of his face was neat, so his big natural nose spoiled the overall impression, and was disproportionate.

although I noticed that the video camera loved him. on the video he was cute even at 17-18, but in the photo - not!

,

1979-1984 his best years in terms of appearance.

Mj was beautiful his entire life. He was beautiful with his original nose tho, look at him! He was hot! Sadly the whole jackson clan suffers from low-self esteem and growing up in hollyweird with fake noses everywhere doesn't help. He was very photogenic his entire life as well, of course there are some bad photos because he was going through puberty and other shit in his life but that's understandable.

GoldDolphin said:

Mj was beautiful his entire life. He was beautiful with his original nose tho, look at him! He was hot! Sadly the whole jackson clan suffers from low-self esteem and growing up in hollyweird with fake noses everywhere doesn't help. He was very photogenic his entire life as well, of course there are some bad photos because he was going through puberty and other shit in his life but that's understandable.

see, this is the thing,

society has been conditioned, engineered to react to the effect rather than discerning the cause of a circumstance

this wasn't something that just jumped out of the woods, it was cultivated over a period of time

this nation is living in a state of pathology, serial pathology, a pathology that served as the basis for the beauty standard that has now projected around the globe, it breeds self hatred...this country was not founded nor established on anything having to do with the truth, that's why contradictions surface time and time again when it comes to the issue of race

we don't enter this world hating ourselves, we are tought to......because of the enviroment we are introduced to that often shape how we view ourselves as individuals, familys, communities, and as a culture of people

this family was indoctrinated w/the idea altering their features would put them in position to attract a greater commercial following.....it's really as simple as that......and the idea was directed towards one invidiaul moreso than anyone else in the family, the centerpiece of the family act, Michael Jackson, and after having his first nose job, and with the amazing success of OFF THE WALL, the rest of the family followed (maybe w/the exception of two of the brothers) began to undergo plastic surgery as well. and this is why I don't believe the notion Michael was teased unmercifully by his brothers or father leading him to make that decision

this started back in 1978, but some 31-32 years later, Michael actually explains the origin of the path he took regarding his transformation, when he said that that Sony Protest forum "I look in the mirror, I know who I am, I know I'm black"..and when he said "the record companies really do take from the artists".....

and looking back on all of this, he was not just referring to taking one's music, or likeness and capitalizing on it, he was talking about something even more devastating...TAKING ONE'S HUMANITY

and I know this can't be proven, and I realize on this occassion, I'm not relying on anything concrete, but when I look at everything and weigh those words he said, Michael took it back to the very beginning and acknowledged what happened without acknowledging the fullness of what happened......

I honestly believe that Michael Jackson was introduced to plastic surgery by his record label, or at least they brought the idea to his attention...

when J5 left Motown and signed w/their new label, it's very possible executives with that label held a meeting with him and posed the notion that he had the talent to be the biggest star on the planet, the most successful artist in recording history but there were obstacles they gave the impression would prohibited that potential status from happening, in particular his ethnicity as well as the most distinctive facial feature we all possess, the nose......someone told him by modifying his features thru increment stages, he could break thru the racial barrier that permeated the airwaves where radio existed as a segregated entity during the mid to late 70s

and consequently, he began focusing on "enhancing" his appearance for that exact reason as the dawn of the 1980s would stage the pop music crossover phenomenon..he was chosen for it

and as MIchael witnessed his career declining over time after he reached the very pinnacle with THRILLER, as he reflected back on all of it, as he uttered those words at that Sony protest forum of early 2002

that was the one instance where Michael Jackson uttered an apology to the black community without uttering the actual words.......for that's what I felt in my spirit.....

for at that point, he knew his career had virtually reached its conclusion

this is a very complication situation but all too simple when we consider the historical context

something like this don't happen w/out some coersion

[Edited 7/12/13 20:30pm]

LiLi1992 said:

+ What does this have to do with race? in Hollywood, 90% of people have a nose job (white, black, Asian).

and again, we're not talking about how standards of beauty are harmful and how beautiful are people in their diversity, we talk about the importance of appearance for the pop star. huge pop stars come in two categories only: handsome and freaks, a huge audience can be attracted by beauty or eccentricity. the laws of show business.
Tell me completely honest, you are personally believe that with his natural looks MJ would have reached the level of success and popularity of the 80's?

Because black people tend to have broader noses than other races, and the preference for smaller noses is based on racism -- this type of racism also affects ethnically Jewish people (and Semitic people generally) since their noses tend to be longer. In the United States, it is not even REMOTELY unusual to see people with noses the same size or bigger than MJ's natural nose. To me, it is really strange and kind of disturbing that you think MJ's original nose was too big for his face. To those of us who are accustomed to seeing and interacting with black people on a daily basis, there's nothing unusual or big about his nose at all. You need to understand that the black celebrities you see in the media have either all had their noses done or (like Rihanna) have smaller noses than most black people; if you saw ordinary black people you wouldn't find it strange. I do wish you would read up on black American history and current issues facing black Americans -- it would also give you a deeper understanding of MJ's music, performance and life (as well as a richer understanding of American music generally). I don't come on here very often, but every time you start talking about race I can't help but cringe.

Arbwyth said:

Because black people tend to have broader noses than other races, and the preference for smaller noses is based on racism -- this type of racism also affects ethnically Jewish people (and Semitic people generally) since their noses tend to be longer. In the United States, it is not even REMOTELY unusual to see people with noses the same size or bigger than MJ's natural nose. To me, it is really strange and kind of disturbing that you think MJ's original nose was too big for his face. To those of us who are accustomed to seeing and interacting with black people on a daily basis, there's nothing unusual or big about his nose at all. You need to understand that the black celebrities you see in the media have either all had their noses done or (like Rihanna) have smaller noses than most black people; if you saw ordinary black people you wouldn't find it strange. I do wish you would read up on black American history and current issues facing black Americans -- it would also give you a deeper understanding of MJ's music, performance and life (as well as a richer understanding of American music generally). I don't come on here very often, but every time you start talking about race I can't help but cringe.

I wrote that the race is not a priority, because I am surrounded by 99% of white people and most of them, including me, are unhappy with the shape of their nose.
Let's make a list of the 100 most popular white Hollywood celebrities and we will see that the vast majority of them have had rhinoplasty.
this is what I had in mind.
and if you are an average man in the street is one thing, but if you are a superstar - that's another thing.
I also irritates by the imposition of standards of beauty, but this is show business, and it has certain rules of the game. if MJ generally refrained from correcting, he would hardly have reached the level of success of Thriller era.
everyone here starts to write that many black people have bigger noses than MJ (btw, some white people also have bigger noses than MJ, you probably have little encounter with white people ....) or that the black community loved MJ with his natural looks even more, but let's be honest, MJ wanted more, he wanted worldwide success.

constant drag any conversation in the plane race makes me cringe.

LiLi1992 said:

Arbwyth said:

Because black people tend to have broader noses than other races, and the preference for smaller noses is based on racism -- this type of racism also affects ethnically Jewish people (and Semitic people generally) since their noses tend to be longer. In the United States, it is not even REMOTELY unusual to see people with noses the same size or bigger than MJ's natural nose. To me, it is really strange and kind of disturbing that you think MJ's original nose was too big for his face. To those of us who are accustomed to seeing and interacting with black people on a daily basis, there's nothing unusual or big about his nose at all. You need to understand that the black celebrities you see in the media have either all had their noses done or (like Rihanna) have smaller noses than most black people; if you saw ordinary black people you wouldn't find it strange. I do wish you would read up on black American history and current issues facing black Americans -- it would also give you a deeper understanding of MJ's music, performance and life (as well as a richer understanding of American music generally). I don't come on here very often, but every time you start talking about race I can't help but cringe.

I wrote that the race is not a priority, because I am surrounded by 99% of white people and most of them, including me, are unhappy with the shape of their nose.
Let's make a list of the 100 most popular white Hollywood celebrities and we will see that the vast majority of them have had rhinoplasty.
this is what I had in mind.
and if you are an average man in the street is one thing, but if you are a superstar - that's another thing.
I also irritates by the imposition of standards of beauty, but this is show business, and it has certain rules of the game. if MJ generally refrained from correcting, he would hardly have reached the level of success of Thriller era.
everyone here starts to write that many black people have bigger noses than MJ (btw, some white people also have bigger noses than MJ, you probably have little encounter with white people ....) or that the black community loved MJ with his natural looks even more, but let's be honest, MJ wanted more, he wanted worldwide success.

constant drag any conversation in the plane race makes me cringe.

yes, he played the game, and he played it big time, but ultimate he lost in the most tragic of circumstances because by playing the game, but the time 1995 he, Michael Jackson became a "king" w/out a kingdom where he was no longer associated with ethnicity, culture, or nationality,

and he told the world he was initially adapt to playing the game but grew weary of playing the game in the song SCREAM

what was those lyrics?

"YALL KEEP CHANGING THE RULES, I KEEP PLAYIN THE GAME, I CAN'T TAKE IT MUCH LONGER, I THINK I MAY GO INSANE"........

this is why I stopped looking for the entertainment value regarding Michael Jackson as early as 1991 because for all practical purposes, there wasn't any left

and that reality hit me when I heard the song WILL YOU BE THERE for the very first time the very week I bought the Dangerous album

and those lyrics hit me in a way that made me exhibit every emotion simultaneously that a human being can experience

for his fans didn't know, even as he was performing at 100,000 seat arenas in Asia and South America, that Michael Jackson was crying out to the world as he acknowledged he was a black man caught up in the web of the Pop Ascension and it's tentacles would not allow him to return back to a state of balance because he saw how it operated on extremes

and with the song STRANGER IN MOSCOW, he also acknowledged he was stripped of his essential goodness when he sang

"here abandoned in my fame, armageddon of the brain, KGB be stalking me, take me name and just let me be"......and eventually, the establishment did just that......

as a result of playing the game, he shared with anyone caring to listen that the pop ascension left him LIVING LONELY

he was willing to play a game that required him giving up his entire hand, then eventually, the deck became stacked against him......

so the question should be who encouraged him to play the game, or who made him feel like he had to play the game in order to be the biggest star in teh world, or let me say

THE KING OF POP....

was it black people who made him feel that way, or other people of the human family who embraces authenticity, or was it someone else ?

for to me, he didn't have to play the game, for he was already winning, winning in such a way that produced Destiny, Triumph, and Victory one right after the other......

[Edited 7/13/13 4:29am]

From another board.

Glad to see the estate has launched a complaint against The Sun and The Mirror

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just thought I would give everyone here an update who is following this. I have just been contacted again by email by the Press Commission. They have stated the Estate has also contacted them to launch a complaint against The Mirror and Sunday People. YES!!! They did not launch a complaint against the Daily Mail though, which has caused my complaint against them to be put on hold. Does anyone have contact with the estate to launch an official complaint against the Daily Mail? (My link to that article is in one of my previous posts.

I wonder what prompted the Estate to go against their own words to "ignore it"? Something must have recently changed. I did notify the FBI. I thought they should know that the British press is accusing them of multiple coverups. Maybe they contacted the estate? Ha!! That would be awesome! Hahahaha!

This is what the coordinator, Ben Gallop tells me today:

Thank you for your email.

The Commission has today been contacted by a representative of the Estate of Michael Jackson. The Estate has informed us that it wishes to make a complaint through the PCC in relation to the coverage in the Daily Mirror and Sunday People which forms the subject of your complaint.

As I am sure you can appreciate, in circumstances where articles have made specific allegation against a named individual, it is more appropriate for the Commission to consider a complaint from that individual or their representatives.

As such, we will be taking this complaint forward with the Estate of Michael Jackson. We will endeavour to let you know the outcome of the PCC’s investigation into the matter, subject to the requirements of confidentiality.

Whilst the Estate has not as yet made a complaint in relation to the coverage in the Daily Mail, we will be putting that complaint on hold pending the outcome of our investigation with them of the coverage published by the Daily Mirror and Sunday people, as this raises substantively the same concerns. Should it become appropriate for us to revert to you on this complaint at a later stage we will do so.

Thank you for raising these concerns with us.

Best wishes

Ben


Ben Gallop
Complaints Officer

Press Complaints Commission
Halton House
20/23 Holborn
London EC1N 2JD

Tel: 020 7831 0022
Website: www.pcc.org.uk

I had an epiphany today concerning the MJ wrongful death trial. We all know a white cabal has schemed for years to destroy MJ's reputation because he surpassed all white pop stars careers. That's a fact. Now I think this same white cabal is behind convincing the Jackson family to bring about this wrongful death trial. Even with him dead they can't stop the destruction of MJ & who more perfect to aid them in this but his own mother & children. The Jackson family doesn't even realize they are being used. This way they can bring up a load of false accusations of drug abuse & they are using the Jackson's as a shield to hide behind. It's a perfect scenario.

Arbwyth said:

LiLi1992 said:

+ What does this have to do with race? in Hollywood, 90% of people have a nose job (white, black, Asian).

and again, we're not talking about how standards of beauty are harmful and how beautiful are people in their diversity, we talk about the importance of appearance for the pop star. huge pop stars come in two categories only: handsome and freaks, a huge audience can be attracted by beauty or eccentricity. the laws of show business.
Tell me completely honest, you are personally believe that with his natural looks MJ would have reached the level of success and popularity of the 80's?

Because black people tend to have broader noses than other races, and the preference for smaller noses is based on racism -- this type of racism also affects ethnically Jewish people (and Semitic people generally) since their noses tend to be longer. In the United States, it is not even REMOTELY unusual to see people with noses the same size or bigger than MJ's natural nose. To me, it is really strange and kind of disturbing that you think MJ's original nose was too big for his face. To those of us who are accustomed to seeing and interacting with black people on a daily basis, there's nothing unusual or big about his nose at all. You need to understand that the black celebrities you see in the media have either all had their noses done or (like Rihanna) have smaller noses than most black people; if you saw ordinary black people you wouldn't find it strange. I do wish you would read up on black American history and current issues facing black Americans -- it would also give you a deeper understanding of MJ's music, performance and life (as well as a richer understanding of American music generally). I don't come on here very often, but every time you start talking about race I can't help but cringe.

I agree whole heartedly with everything you are saying. And she is from Russia anyways so I don't expect her to understand the context we are speaking from, or critically realize how what she's saying comes off. Calling his nose disproportionate is very problematic, and just adding onto whatever insecurity he faced at puberty and when getting deeper, as a person of colour. Besides, I do think that with weight and body changes sometimes some features may stand out more than others. Take me for example, I hated my nose for most of my teen years cause of my other tiny features and feeling my nose was too big, but after losing weight in my 20's and that contributing to my facial features a little, everything else seemed to look balanced again and by then I was realizing it had everything to do with not feeling adequate enough for what society says about beauty standards. And at times, I guess I didn't feel pretty enough as females of my own race who were famous, though later I realized they also happened to get plastic surgery to look that way even if not drastic as mj. I'm not saying this to put him down cause I really do love him, I know he's the same dude despite how he looked on the outside, but I remember how he looked when I first saw him, and that was throughout the 80's.

Those are gorgeous black and white pictures of him in the 70's.

[Edited 7/13/13 16:39pm]

[Edited 7/13/13 16:40pm]

Really rare video of MJ on the set of Black or White! Never seen this before.

[Edited 7/13/13 20:41pm]

_{Interviewer: You’ve been seen out with Janelle Penny Commissiong, the former Miss Universe. Is it a romance?}

_{Michael: [Laughter, giggling.] That’s a hard question to answer. Like most of the people you may see me out with, like Tatum [O’Neal] and Janelle, they’re kind of on and off, they’re friends, and [hysterical laughter] … I talk to them. I don’t know how to describe it, really [more laughter]. I don’t know what to say.}

http://rhapsodyincolour.tumblr.com/tagged/even-reading-the-giggles-i-can-sense-how-embarrassed-he-was-at-this-question-hehe

alphastreet said:

Arbwyth said:

Because black people tend to have broader noses than other races, and the preference for smaller noses is based on racism -- this type of racism also affects ethnically Jewish people (and Semitic people generally) since their noses tend to be longer. In the United States, it is not even REMOTELY unusual to see people with noses the same size or bigger than MJ's natural nose. To me, it is really strange and kind of disturbing that you think MJ's original nose was too big for his face. To those of us who are accustomed to seeing and interacting with black people on a daily basis, there's nothing unusual or big about his nose at all. You need to understand that the black celebrities you see in the media have either all had their noses done or (like Rihanna) have smaller noses than most black people; if you saw ordinary black people you wouldn't find it strange. I do wish you would read up on black American history and current issues facing black Americans -- it would also give you a deeper understanding of MJ's music, performance and life (as well as a richer understanding of American music generally). I don't come on here very often, but every time you start talking about race I can't help but cringe.

I agree whole heartedly with everything you are saying. And she is from Russia anyways so I don't expect her to understand the context we are speaking from, or critically realize how what she's saying comes off. Calling his nose disproportionate is very problematic, and just adding onto whatever insecurity he faced at puberty and when getting deeper, as a person of colour. Besides, I do think that with weight and body changes sometimes some features may stand out more than others. Take me for example, I hated my nose for most of my teen years cause of my other tiny features and feeling my nose was too big, but after losing weight in my 20's and that contributing to my facial features a little, everything else seemed to look balanced again and by then I was realizing it had everything to do with not feeling adequate enough for what society says about beauty standards. And at times, I guess I didn't feel pretty enough as females of my own race who were famous, though later I realized they also happened to get plastic surgery to look that way even if not drastic as mj. I'm not saying this to put him down cause I really do love him, I know he's the same dude despite how he looked on the outside, but I remember how he looked when I first saw him, and that was throughout the 80's.

Those are gorgeous black and white pictures of him in the 70's.

[Edited 7/13/13 16:39pm]

[Edited 7/13/13 16:40pm]

It's hard for certain white people to understand the challenge of being a person of color (regardless of ethnicity) because since they have shaped much of history these past 300 years and made the rest of the world assimilate to the standards made in Europe and white people that spread across the world, they can't understand how such commentaries destroy and infect the society of colored people. We live in a post-racial society in many countries, but in reality that's not really true because we still have the same beauty conceptions that white people have created around the world for many decades. MJs nose was perfect for his face and hence that's why I wanted to show some pictures that were attractive of him during those years. I believe that if MJ hadn't broken his nose the first time, perhaps he wouldn't have gone so far espcially if he had some type of person he could have talked to. MJ and his family experienced much racism during the 70s and 80s and him changing his nose during the OTW/Thriller era, had nothing to do with his success. He was one of the most talented artists in Motown as a kid and he kept growing and after Off The Wall it was just a matter of time till he became the biggest star. He just had the "it" factor, with or without surgery.

thedoorkeeper said:

I had an epiphany today concerning the MJ wrongful death trial. We all know a white cabal has schemed for years to destroy MJ's reputation because he surpassed all white pop stars careers. That's a fact. Now I think this same white cabal is behind convincing the Jackson family to bring about this wrongful death trial. Even with him dead they can't stop the destruction of MJ & who more perfect to aid them in this but his own mother & children. The Jackson family doesn't even realize they are being used. This way they can bring up a load of false accusations of drug abuse & they are using the Jackson's as a shield to hide behind. It's a perfect scenario.

Bingo. Haters have been saying for months this trial was a dream come true. According to them, this trial kills 2 birds with one stone. The tabloid crap is dredged back up and the Jacksons cred once and for all is shot to hell.

#NATURALBEAUTY

Elizabeth Hurley ‏@ElizabethHurley9 Jul
Saw Michael Jackson show last night. I'd always admired him but never been a 'fan'; fully converted now. Amazing tribute by Cirque du Soleil