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oh, I'm glad you mentioned CLIVE DAVIS......unfortunately, he was one of the people who drove Whitney Houston to the problems that played out in her life, particularly when he made it known in the late 1980s when she no longer wanted to be seen as 'American's darling" and of that only as an artist......
after Whitney rose to prominence w/her debut album in 1985
right before her second release in 1987 (Whitney)
Do you know what he advised her to do?.....he told her she looked too ethnic (as she appeared on teh album cover fo her debut album) and advised that she modified her look
AND he refrained her from conducting any major interviews w/urban radio stations at the time
and because of that flux, that's what led to the backlash she received at the 1990 Soul Train Awards when she was booed on stage for a situation she was not responsible for creating, that experience left her distraught, which led to the many problems we witnessed over time afterwards......
As far as Quincy goes, of course his work w/Michael will be remembered more than anything else......He's never denied that.....and that should be the case......
but he was already the greatest producer on the planet before they started working together and that's why Michael APPROACHED him about a producer for his debut album which would become OFF THE WALL.....
but the problem is when this stuff meant something, their collaboration was viewed in the proper context, but as of 2012, and for the past 7-8 years, he's been seen as someone who rode the gravy train and went for the ride....and that misperception has led to the comments everyone seems to be blowing a gasket about........
the lies causes hostility, that's the problem...
[Edited 9/29/12 18:53pm] | |
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I deleted it because Im repeating myself to you in every post and my comments in a previous post say the same thing
But noooo I dont have a problem in saying anything..
I can proudly say that I called you senile because THAT IS HOW YOU ARE ACTING and its getting kinda creepy at this point | |
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yeah, go ahead and fool yourself....
because if you ever wanted to find out if I'm senile or not,
all you have to do is email me personally beyond the confines of this thread and watch how fast you change tune.........
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WILL YOU JUST SIMPLY ANSWER THE QUESTION [Edited 9/29/12 19:00pm] | |
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naw, I ain't rollin like that....I ain't going out like Willie lump lump
especially after one tries to call out suggesting someone is senile.....
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I called you senile AFTER ASKING YOU THAT QUESTION MULTIPLE TIMES AND YOU DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO ANSWER.... but its ALL GOOD
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I knew you wasnt going to answer I just wanted to make a point that EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD CAN NOW SEE. I really don't understand the point to this discussion at the moment. And Off The Wall was only MJ's debut adult album. I personally count it as his 5th solo album as I listen to MJ's music spanning his entire career. We all have our preferences but I can honestly say all of mine are dotted around from the beginning right through to the end. | |
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oh, I was there from day one too......experienced the whole deal......
as we are talking about the adult solo career
I don't see the point of calling someone senile either.......that doesn't hold water..
Quincy Jones has absolutely nothing to do with what happened the Michael.......
let's take it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to the 1970s.......
did you see that documentary LIFE OF AN ICON that premiered last year...
http://www.youtube.com/mo...ture=mv_sr
if not, rent it out, and fast forward to half way of the film...
and there's a part, a part that nooooooobody talks about who wants to uphold the madness...
there's this black guy, who was associated with Motown Records....
and do you know what he said?
he said, "here's this black kid from the inner city who was the darling of white america (I'm not referring to good white people, there's plenty of good white people, those who accepted him in his natural state, but those associated w/the establishment and who it represent), HE HAD TO CHANGE".....
let me repeat that 'HE HAD TO CHANGE".......so early as 1975, this guy saw what was going to happen and take place in Michael's life before it actually happened....and this is why this situation is so tragic, because the society, the public, and everyone involved in this situation refuses to acknowledge it for exactly what it is....
this goes waaaaaaaaaaaay deeper than Quincy Jones.....let's talk about that.....
[Edited 9/29/12 20:10pm] | |
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Me Neither.
I dont see what 2001 or in the 70s regarding Michael have ANYTHING to do with Quincy original comments. | |
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oh for the record, since you asked for the 6th time, I'll give a 6 point answer
1.) because there was NOTHING in this interview you keep pinpointing on where Quincy said anything negative about Michael Jackson
he said the main was detailed oriented, very observant and one of the most talented people he's ever worked with
2.) and said that NO ONE PERSON was repsonsible for each other's success for their success as a collaboration was just because of that, for they acheived what they did together....
3.) what he did mention (which was true) was that Michael told his manager Frank Dileo that he was getting too old and that he didn't have it anymore......(and the majority of his current fans have followed suit calling this guy old)
4.) hell yeah, Quincy is old, but he delivered over and over and over again and has nothing to prove, see, he can sit here and expound on his career and his contribution....a 50 year contribution to culture and to the arts......
5.) do you know the real reason Quincy was let go, and why Frank Dileo was fired in 1989?
one reason and one reason only.....not because Q was too old, because if tha'ts the case, he was too old to produce OFF THE WALL and THRILLER (which he was 50 by that point)
6.) it was because BAD didn't outset THRILLER...bottom line.....
next question....
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lets not forget michael history of throwing people under the bus after he has on use for them. | |
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I find it disturbing and sick that someone would say on tv that they hope mj would self destruct and that his life ends tragically, don't you? But don't you think they said this and it imprinted ideas in the public's mind towards him?
And if you want to go on believing Bad killed his career, then I wish I could have a ruined career with that many accolades, recognition and innovation for generations where I'm performing at my peak and have full control over my creative decisions, and have the last laugh in the end too...with inner strength to deal with the public watching my skin change colour overtime without a choice in the matter
Go watch the jacksons billie jean victory tour music video, michael is referred to as THE KING in that video, in 1984!!!! This was my first memory of Michael when I could just remember things in flashes. He was called prince of pop in thriller era publications, referred to as pop king generally or the jackson family as pop royalty since if not constantly. i know liz gave him the name and he told Oprah this, but if he told her to say it or if she said it on her own, that is not relevant when he was already being called one anyways. This is not your p diddy, ashanti, ciara, etc. coming out with a debut album and being deemed royalty upon a debut album, so if he wanted to name himself Kop if that were the case, it's just an extension of what was already being said, but someone out there saying he self-proclaimed it, and that sticking with people who suddenly develop amnesia. Go whine about elvis's title if it bothers you that much!
[Edited 9/29/12 22:59pm] | |
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yes, what an asshole, moving on from people when he's done with them, just like the rest of us....the crazy man *smh* | |
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Life of An Icon was shit. The stuff focusing on teh rare stories from the 70s was great but the rest was a complete hack job. I went to the London premiere screening of that and can't believe Tito, Rebbie and Tom Mesereau were even there to endorse it. | |
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no, they did NOT say they hoped that he self destruct.......
they said they hoped that he WOULDN'T........big difference....
the main guy said that Michael was talented and didn't owe the world anything because he had already given of himself as much as he could, and said that he couldn't continue to meet the level of expectation placed before him because he would eventually burn out...and that's exactly what happened...
you have expectations yourself and then you have the world's expectation.....
that's the thing........yes, I enjoyed what he did, I loved it, and was just as eager to see how he was going to follow up to THRILLER as much as anyone else when the word was out that he was returning back to the scene, but it wasn't like I would always expect something from him on call because he had proven his point with THRILLER.....same goes for any artist who I have supported as well
remember those 2006 World Music Awards, where many of his current fans EXPECTED him to perform that night when he was scheduled to attend the show to receive the Diamond Award for THRILLER reaching 100 million sales worldwide
and when he confirmed that he wasn't going to perform.....I saw the reaction w/my own two eyes, and read the comments...many of his current fans booed Michael Jackson, because their entitlement wasn't going to be met......and that the entertainment value superceded the acknowledge of the human toll
THAT is what those 2 british guys were referring to in 1987? some 19 years before the fact.....those were 2 guys that held the human toll in higher esteem the entertainment value
as far as 1984, yeah, he was being called KING......the king of entertainment, because he had proven it during the defining moments, so when the people acknowledge you as such during the time of merit, then it's all good, all of the great performers over time have been known as a special distinction....
you're right, it's no big deal about a nickname
but elizabeth taylor did not come up w/that phrase....only reason most of his fans believe she did is because he stated that during that Oprah interview of 1993,
http://www.youtube.com/wa...L-PwXiqpZI
and she never mentioned the term KING OF POP..........
during the 1989 Soul Train Music Awards, which is on tape itself, she mentioned KING OF POP, ROCK, and SOUL
while in fact, he demanded MTV identify him as such publically as he was scheduled to perform for their 10 year anniversary special.....in 1991, during the time of Dangerous release
and right before his performance started, a spokesman for MTV spoke over the footage and said KING OF POP: MICHAEL JACKSON
http://www.youtube.com/wa...3q-ngaPvRE
both KING OF POP, ROCK, AND SOUL and KING OF POP was coined by Bob Jones, who Michael relied on to come up w/those distinctions, since he was Michael's P.R. manager, whic makes since when P.R. stands for public relations....
[Edited 9/30/12 4:42am] | |
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I'm referring to what that black man with Motown said.......not the quality of the film or the lack thereof....
the truth resonated inconspicuously, and nobody has ever noticed it or cared to mention it..what that man said was true and it has played out on a world stage for the past quarter century
as far as Tito and Rebbie, they are trying to clean this stuff up as much as they can, even when it's an impossible task.... [Edited 9/30/12 4:40am] | |
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I was there at the 2006 World Music Awards caught up in that horrendous crowd. If you were there you'd know what we were booing. It certainly wasn't Michael. The whole show was a complete shambles:
* No-one in the venue could hear a single word being said through a microphone outside of the music performances.
* Raymone Bain had completely fucked up Michael's entire PR that week by not even having a mobile phone to clarify any details, or at least that was her excuse for the mix up in the press about performances. Imagine that, a publicist going to another country, realising her phone hadn't been set up to work internationally and then not organising for a temporary replacement. It appeared that she was in contact with people when they were at the hotel but had no communication at any other point in the days they were there.
* She made all these promises to the fans about Michael attending an aftershow party at a club in central London. She issued all these messages through the fanclub leaders that people were supposed to be at certain places at certain times to pick up tickets, none of which Michael even knew the slightest bit about. We had thousands of MJ fans running back and forth across West and Central London not knowing what to do all morning.
* Then when we got to Earls Court when the awards were going to happen, before the red carpets were rolled out, the audience were led into the building and were kept in what could only be described as an underground dungeon with no food, drink or toilet facilities for approximately 5 hours. Worst security ever. At one point when Michael came on stage for the first time I actually feared for my life as I was being crushed. I swear I had never screamed so loud when I had an elbow in my eye.
Because of all of the delays, the 11pm curfew for the venue passed by the end and I distinctly remember the plugs being pulled for sound as MJ was still on stage! I mean Lindsay Lohan hosted that show and Paris Hilton was even having a catfight with Sharleen Spiteri from the band Texas in full view of people. It was like some huge joke like an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm or something with all the fuck-ups that day.
[Edited 9/30/12 4:50am] | |
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when Michael walked up to that interviewer and was asked whether he was going to perform (which I knew he wouldn't)
he said no, and when asked was going to be releasing a new album (which wasn't going to happen since he no longer had a record deal), he said he was working on new projects (which figured to be a 25th anniversary of the THRILLER album which turned about to be THRILLER 25)
and when he made that announcement, the fans reaction on his forums showed it all, they were highly disappointment with him, got angry with him, and booed him......
what it comes down to, when he was asked to be the KING OF POP, he could no longer meet that expectation....
that's what started the chaos....
http://www.youtube.com/wa...FiyoMOPgLI
[Edited 9/30/12 5:00am] | |
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They booed him on fan forums? So what? The people in the venue didn't even know what was going on outside or on the forums. We didn't have smartphones that could get all of this information quickly at that point. The people in the venue were too busy trying not to get crushed to death. THAT was what we were vocally expressing disgust at. Nothing to do with Michael. | |
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did you honestly believe he was going to perform that night? | |
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Me, no. But when he did start singing lines of We Are The World and they cut his microphone due to the shoddy organisation of the entire thing, I got pissed off. I was also a bit pissed at the AWFUL performance of Chris Brown singing Thriller to the original backing track and he couldn't hit any of the notes.
Honestly Beyonce was the only good thing about that show. That was the last time I ever saw Michael Jackson perform in any way and the last time in person was the 2009 press conference. Breaks my heart just thinking about it. | |
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I hear ya
reports about his voice cracking, that I never believed.....
he sounded good singing the few lines he did.......
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Honestly, I don't find him at all credible anymore. He sounds half crazy most of the time, and what's with his whole, "I'm a hardcore lesbian" comment? That's the type of shit 12-year-old boys say and find hilarious. Yes, Q, we know you're insecure about your masculinity, but sorry, stupid jokes aren't going to hide it. (I do think he's straight, but seriously, there's no reason to sound like an idiot asserting it.) At this point you just have to wonder if he's trying to grab headlines. And I see all of your creations as one perfect complex
No one less beautiful Or more special than the next | |
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CORRECTION: The "King Of Pop" title was given to Michael by the UK tabloid media during the earlier part of the Bad-era of Michael's career. And of course, Elisabeth Taylor would publicly called Michael by this same title beginning in 1993.
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the problem was the fact that he was asked the question about the rumor, a rumor that's been floating out there their scandously for the past 10 years, about whether or not he was bedding men....
THAT'S THE PROBLEM........
a question that was never asked during the age of real entertainment when this stuff meant something.....
but since it no longer means anything, and the fact that it's not about entertainment anymore, a whack question led to what he said....
a legit question calls for a legit answer...a whack question deserves exactly what it gets.....
this doesn't just go for him, but anyone out there
when you're asked a whack question, you're not allow to talk about anything of substance
see, this is a real interview when it was absolutely real....
http://www.youtube.com/wa...EdGsWcegoQ
http://www.youtube.com/wa...plpp_video
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related
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I'm not just referring to this interview, or to the question about his sexuality. In general lately he's just been really off and kind of an asshole. And if he's sick of the same questions being asked, well, no one is forcing him to do interviews. Or, I think most media outlets allow interview subjects to deem certain questions off limits ahead of time. Yet he doesn't seem to be specifying that questions that obviously annoy him are off-limits. And I see all of your creations as one perfect complex
No one less beautiful Or more special than the next | |
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tell me something, when did michael jackson become credible? lying in the begining about his surgery, lying bout his self hate issue, lying about relationship with women, lying about his relationship with little boys, lying about his feelings on working with q, enen though sony did'nt really pay him what he seserve as a result of thriller thanks to mike. | |
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WOW!!! This thread got interesting. I have never known one person to have people so riled up. LOL
Also Quincy being a jackass has nothing to do with MJs sugerys, vitiligo etc. If he really wanted to help him, you reach out in private.. NOT diss publicly.
No one in here know what really went on in MJs life that led him to make the decisions he did, so dont try to act like you knew.
Aslo even if he did call himself the King of Pop.... SO WHAT!!! Who else could really own that title???
yea, ill wait...
Was he not supposed to think highly of himself and his accomplishments?? As a person, I dont care what field you are in, if you accomolish the magnitude of things MJ accomplished in entertainment you would want some kind of title also. This is a black boy from Gary, Indiana who basiclly accomplised everything in his dreams and probably more. He changed the playing field for blacks in entertainment as a whole. | |
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No one else would want that dumb ass title. | |
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