SoulAlive said:

Quincy's anti-MJ comments may have something to do with that book written by a Sony/Epic record executive awhile back.I forgot his name,but in the book,he talks about Michael Jackson during the Thriller era.At the 1984 Grammys,Quincy was set to receive the Producer of the Year Award.Michael didn't like the idea of Quincy getting that much credit."How can we change it so that I get that award instead?",Michael asked I noticed that Quincy began bashing Michael only after this book was released.

As i recall, Mike was after joint credit, not sole credit. Rightly so.

Marrk said:

SoulAlive said:

Quincy's anti-MJ comments may have something to do with that book written by a Sony/Epic record executive awhile back.I forgot his name,but in the book,he talks about Michael Jackson during the Thriller era.At the 1984 Grammys,Quincy was set to receive the Producer of the Year Award.Michael didn't like the idea of Quincy getting that much credit."How can we change it so that I get that award instead?",Michael asked I noticed that Quincy began bashing Michael only after this book was released.

As i recall, Mike was after joint credit, not sole credit. Rightly so.

Mike got cred for being a co-producer. Q has been bashing MJ before that book was released, he's always had problems with Mike since he dropped him after the Bad album. Truth is that during the Bad sessions, they were already having problems, but Mike has always been the better man and never spoken badly about him in public.

Why are people talking about Michaels changing appearance when that is IRRELEVANT to this discussion

Michael could have looked like a goat .... Its IGNORANT to go around saying you are someones friend and THEN wait till they pass to publicly trash and insult them...

.FAKE/PHONEY... It doesnt matter that Quincy Jones is a legendary producer... he is phoney and it doesnt justify his ignorant behavior

Scorp said:

this is what pisses me off about this whole situation

and when I've read the comments by the majority of current MJ FANS, all I see is the focus on the entertainment value when there was absolutely no reason to do so

but see, Michael was giving the impression he was INVINCIBLE and his fans followed suit when it was crystal clear the man was running on fumes, which Quincy had alluded to time and time again

not only did Michael Jackson destroy himself with the tons of plastic surgery/cosmetic alterations he had (which was yeeears ago because you could see the damage already afflicted during the Bad era), but for 20 years, he had to rely on pain medication to alleviate the affliction all that surgery caused over time

but this reality is never mentioned by his fans, and because of that denial, and that level of indifference, Michael had to shut it down for good 3 years ago

that Pepsi Accident of 1984 was not responsible for that, nor did it lead to it...that's what commercial media has put out there because those sources who wanted to protect the lies fostered his destruction too, so have wiped their hands clean from it

Michael Jackson couldn't even perform freely anymore as we saw him constantly readjusting his appearance during the 2001 MSG concerts.....that's how terrible this is.....

if you're acting on genuine human emotion, anyone would be angry what that man did to himself, feeling he had to do that to be accepted, by whom?....that's the million dollar question, because he was already adored by the public when he was younger and during the beginning stages of his solo career

and if Michael would have seen things different, we wouldn't be having these damn conversations today........we wouldn't have had to anticipate a fake posthumous album or rereleases of work he has already done....the well has run dry.....and IT'S ALL OVER

Quincy Jones started producing/orchestrating music 10 years before Michael Jackson was born, and was already the most prolific producer on the planet before they started their historic run together........

there IS no producer that has lasted in this business that Quincy...nobody even comes close

and I'm sure that man was hurt but what he saw Michael taking his body through

fans didn't want anyone to call this stuff out for what it was, nor bring attention to it because they didn't want their sense of entitlement threatened, and that's why this tale ending so tragically when it could have been the greatest story ever told way longer than it actually took place.....

it's disgusting.......and all this crap continues to exist to protect the original lie that started this entire demise 25 years ago.........

[Edited 9/25/12 4:30am]

What does ANY of that have to do with what Quincy Jones said

GoldDolphin said:

Marrk said:

As i recall, Mike was after joint credit, not sole credit. Rightly so.

Mike got cred for being a co-producer. Q has been bashing MJ before that book was released, he's always had problems with Mike since he dropped him after the Bad album. Truth is that during the Bad sessions, they were already having problems, but Mike has always been the better man and never spoken badly about him in public.

Yeah, he was always joint producer as per the album credits. The Grammy's were apparently trying to give credit to Q alone for whatever reason.

It's weird Q is like he is. I remember him being on Oprah and happily taking a call from MJ on the show.

mynameisnotsusan said:

shorttrini said:

You are missing the point. You don't say all good things about a person, and then wait until their passing to show your true feelings. It's not cool...

Please - the entire worlds media have been completely two-faced about MJ since he died. The last 10-15 years of his life you couldn't find a media story that didn't try to rip him to pieces.

Oh don't worry. I've been saying "F*** Oprah" and dissing Nancy (Dis)Grace for a reason.

I see nothing wrong with anything Q says about Mike. He certainly knew him better than any of us. I'm not sure where this arbitrary rule that you can't speak badly of the dead came from. I've said positive and negative things about MJ before and after he died.

mjscarousal said:

What does ANY of that have to do with what Quincy Jones said

nothing. absolutely nothing. apples and oranges. if what scorp posted had anything to do with what his problems with mj were, then q has been free to elucidate and expound in that manner. has he? no. he's simply been taking potshots at a dead man no longer here to defend himself from q's vitriol and attempts to pump himself at the expense of mj.

having to fight for co-credit on a song you produced? having to fight to have songs on your album that you knew were hits, but your producer didn't like so he tried to thwart your own instincts? the well had run dry all right. whether anyone likes mj's post-q music better is a matter of opinion; i don't like 'bad' but i like 'dangerous'. but all that is irrelevant. it's a matter of respect. i would have left the partnership, too, if i had to work with someone who didn't respect me and was trying to give himself credit for work he didn't perform or talk me out of something i knew to be right.

kibbles said:

mjscarousal said:

What does ANY of that have to do with what Quincy Jones said

nothing. absolutely nothing. apples and oranges. if what scorp posted had anything to do with what his problems with mj were, then q has been free to elucidate and expound in that manner. has he? no. he's simply been taking potshots at a dead man something i knew to be right.

Does the fact that Mj is dead lesson what Q has 2 say?

Marrk said:

As i recall, Mike was after joint credit, not sole credit. Rightly so.

Yeah and since he already had the demos before Quincy heard them, there was no reason why he shouldn't have gotten joint production credit. He didn't disrespect Quincy's position as top producer. On the tracks he didn't have a hand in writing, Quincy was given sole credit. It just so happens that their relationship disintegrated ONCE Michael decided to write the majority of songs for Bad, that led to him getting production credit on all but two tracks on the album.

But Quincy was the dominant producer in the other two albums. Michael got joint credit with three songs on Off the Wall including Don't Stop (his breakthrough) and four on Thriller. Nine songs were credited to Michael as joint producer on Bad.

Graycap23 said:

kibbles said:

nothing. absolutely nothing. apples and oranges. if what scorp posted had anything to do with what his problems with mj were, then q has been free to elucidate and expound in that manner. has he? no. he's simply been taking potshots at a dead man something i knew to be right.

Does the fact that Mj is dead lesson what Q has 2 say?

Yes if BEFORE he died he was saying that Michael was like a brother to him and defended him and NOW wants to talk bullshit

I wouldnt have a problem with anything Q had said if it wasnt media driven, self seeking and hyprocritical... His comments after MJs passing are ALL clearly hyprocritical and he sounds bitter.

kibbles said:

mjscarousal said:

What does ANY of that have to do with what Quincy Jones said

nothing. absolutely nothing. apples and oranges. if what scorp posted had anything to do with what his problems with mj were, then q has been free to elucidate and expound in that manner. has he? no. he's simply been taking potshots at a dead man no longer here to defend himself from q's vitriol and attempts to pump himself at the expense of mj.

having to fight for co-credit on a song you produced? having to fight to have songs on your album that you knew were hits, but your producer didn't like so he tried to thwart your own instincts? the well had run dry all right. whether anyone likes mj's post-q music better is a matter of opinion; i don't like 'bad' but i like 'dangerous'. but all that is irrelevant. it's a matter of respect. i would have left the partnership, too, if i had to work with someone who didn't respect me and was trying to give himself credit for work he didn't perform or talk me out of something i knew to be right.

90 percent of people on Prince.org are DUMB AS SHIT Im sorry but its true. ANYBODY defending this man's comments needs to go back to 1st grade and clearly are unaware of the comments Q said BEFORE MJ PASSED.

You dont HAVE to like Michael Jackson but dont sit up here and talk bullshit. Q spoke highly of Michael before he died and NOW has trashed him in every possible of way afterward so clearly NOTHING he says is credible and he is showing that he is FAKE and PHONEY.

[Edited 9/25/12 11:10am]

Michael just cant never catch a break can he

He is trash in almost EVERY SINGLE THREAD and nobody says shit

but let someone point out Janets, Quincy or etc flaws and all of a sudden MJ fans are the most delusional people ever! But MJ is the ONLY person that does ANYTHING wrong and has to CONSTANTLY be trashed.

SAD.

FUCK PRINCE.ORG HYPROCRITES

mjscarousal said:

Michael just cant never catch a break can he

He is trash in almost EVERY SINGLE THREAD and nobody says shit

but let someone point out Janets, Quincy or etc flaws and all of a sudden MJ fans are the most delusional people ever! But MJ is the ONLY person that does ANYTHING wrong and has to CONSTANTLY be trashed.

SAD.

FUCK PRINCE.ORG HYPROCRITES

I feel you, but so many people on the org, are just crazy lmao. They bash Prince 24/7 as well and this is a Prince forum, so I'm not surprised that people bash MJ. I have to say it's very sad, because Mike is dead , but whatever the bigger the target the easier it gets to bully that person.

GoldDolphin said:

mjscarousal said:

Michael just cant never catch a break can he

He is trash in almost EVERY SINGLE THREAD and nobody says shit

but let someone point out Janets, Quincy or etc flaws and all of a sudden MJ fans are the most delusional people ever! But MJ is the ONLY person that does ANYTHING wrong and has to CONSTANTLY be trashed.

SAD.

FUCK PRINCE.ORG HYPROCRITES

I feel you, but so many people on the org, are just crazy lmao. They bash Prince 24/7 as well and this is a Prince forum, so I'm not surprised that people bash MJ. I have to say it's very sad, because Mike is dead , but whatever the bigger the target the easier it gets to bully that person.

Gurl crazy is not even the word for these folks

Marrk said:

GoldDolphin said:

Mike got cred for being a co-producer. Q has been bashing MJ before that book was released, he's always had problems with Mike since he dropped him after the Bad album. Truth is that during the Bad sessions, they were already having problems, but Mike has always been the better man and never spoken badly about him in public.

Yeah, he was always joint producer as per the album credits. The Grammy's were apparently trying to give credit to Q alone for whatever reason.

It's weird Q is like he is. I remember him being on Oprah and happily taking a call from MJ on the show.

I remember that,too.It seemed like they were on good terms.

Graycap23 said:

kibbles said:

nothing. absolutely nothing. apples and oranges. if what scorp posted had anything to do with what his problems with mj were, then q has been free to elucidate and expound in that manner. has he? no. he's simply been taking potshots at a dead man something i knew to be right.

Does the fact that Mj is dead lesson what Q has 2 say?

yes, it does lessen it, gray. b/c i really don't what q has said that has any relevance beyond stroking his own ego.

am i supposed to find some "lesson" in the fact that he doesn't like the color of mj's kids' skin? or q's belief that mj purposely bleached his own instead of acknowledging that mj had vitiligo? that he believes that mj was untalented? that he apparently believes in his heart that mj would have been nothing w/o him?

what scorp posted - which i don't agree with for a lot of reasons but which you do agree with - is what scorp posted. but here's the thing: quincy jones has not come anywhere near close to making the argument that scorp did. all quincy jones is doing is gratuitously trashing mj, and to the extent that i don't know what it's supposed to be revealing about mj, it's a dick move.

i could possibly understand your argument if quincy had actually said something substantive about mj, if he were actually opening a broader discussion, or making a contribution to the discussion. if he really thought that mj had made some errors in judgment or had betrayed his "blackness", or had watered down his music, or had become to big for his britches - whatever his problem with mj was (maybe all of the things scorp posted), then he could be saying that. he isn't. he's simply taking shots, that's all. moreover, if he felt it necessary to make these running commentaries on mj, then yes, the fact that mj is dead does again lessen what he has to say.

again, i really don't understand the relevance of his utterances about mj b/c i'm not sure exactly what the point of them are besides merely trashing for the sake of trashing. gee, you don't like the music that mj produced w/o you, so you make a correlation between the fact that you weren't in his life and the fact that 'dangerous' and 'history' sold less than 'thriller' as proof that he was nothing w/o you? (btw, i believe bad and dangerous were pretty neck and neck in terms of sales upon release.) i think that's b.s. if he didn't like mj, he could have been a man and trashed him while he was alive.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:02pm]

kibbles said:

Graycap23 said:

Does the fact that Mj is dead lesson what Q has 2 say?

yes, it does lessen it, gray. b/c i really don't what q has said that has any relevance beyond stroking his own ego.

am i supposed to find some "lesson" in the fact that he doesn't like the color of mj's kids' skin? or q's belief that mj purposely bleached his own instead of acknowledging that mj had vitiligo? that he believes that mj was untalented? that he apparently believes in his heart that mj would have been nothing w/o him?

what scorp posted - which i don't agree with for a lot of reasons but which you do agree with - is what scorp posted. but here's the thing: quincy jones has not come anywhere near close to making the argument that scorp did. all quincy jones is doing is gratuitously trashing mj, and to the extent that i don't know what it's supposed to be revealing about mj, it's a dick move.

i could possibly understand your argument if quincy had actually said something substantive about mj, if he were actually opening a broader discussion, or making a contribution to the discussion. if he really thought that mj had made some errors in judgment or had betrayed his "blackness", or had watered down his music, or had become to big for his britches - whatever his problem with mj was (maybe all of the things scorp posted), then he could be saying that. he isn't. he's simply taking shots, that's all. moreover, if he felt it necessary to make these running commentaries on mj, then yes, the fact that mj is dead does again lessen what he has to say.

again, i really don't understand the relevance of his utterances about mj b/c i'm not sure exactly what the point of them are besides merely trashing for the sake of trashing. gee, you don't like the music that mj produced w/o you, so you make a correlation between the fact that you weren't in his life and the fact that 'dangerous' and 'history' sold less than 'thriller' as proof that he was nothing w/o you? (btw, i believe bad and dangerous were pretty neck and neck in terms of sales upon release.) i think that's b.s. if he didn't like mj, he could have been a man and trashed him while he was alive.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:02pm]

I don't have a dog in this race but the reality is Q feels how he feels rather is it is correct or not.

The man is entitled 2 his opinion isn't he?

Graycap23 said:

kibbles said:

yes, it does lessen it, gray. b/c i really don't what q has said that has any relevance beyond stroking his own ego.

am i supposed to find some "lesson" in the fact that he doesn't like the color of mj's kids' skin? or q's belief that mj purposely bleached his own instead of acknowledging that mj had vitiligo? that he believes that mj was untalented? that he apparently believes in his heart that mj would have been nothing w/o him?

what scorp posted - which i don't agree with for a lot of reasons but which you do agree with - is what scorp posted. but here's the thing: quincy jones has not come anywhere near close to making the argument that scorp did. all quincy jones is doing is gratuitously trashing mj, and to the extent that i don't know what it's supposed to be revealing about mj, it's a dick move.

i could possibly understand your argument if quincy had actually said something substantive about mj, if he were actually opening a broader discussion, or making a contribution to the discussion. if he really thought that mj had made some errors in judgment or had betrayed his "blackness", or had watered down his music, or had become to big for his britches - whatever his problem with mj was (maybe all of the things scorp posted), then he could be saying that. he isn't. he's simply taking shots, that's all. moreover, if he felt it necessary to make these running commentaries on mj, then yes, the fact that mj is dead does again lessen what he has to say.

again, i really don't understand the relevance of his utterances about mj b/c i'm not sure exactly what the point of them are besides merely trashing for the sake of trashing. gee, you don't like the music that mj produced w/o you, so you make a correlation between the fact that you weren't in his life and the fact that 'dangerous' and 'history' sold less than 'thriller' as proof that he was nothing w/o you? (btw, i believe bad and dangerous were pretty neck and neck in terms of sales upon release.) i think that's b.s. if he didn't like mj, he could have been a man and trashed him while he was alive.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:02pm]

I don't have a dog in this race but the reality is Q feels how he feels rather is it is correct or not.

The man is entitled 2 his opinion isn't he?

Gray you know just as well as I do that saying nice comments like Michael is talented, Michael didnt need me, Michael did just about everything, Michael is misunderstood then ONCE he passes it changes to... Michael took chemical peels to bleach his skin, Michael was nothing without me, Michael was hard to work with etc

You know just as well as any SANE person that that is hyprocritical.... OR AT LEAST I HOPE

The man IS entitled to his opinion but its PHONEY to speak badly once someone passes when he wasnt doing that when he was alive.....

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

I don't have a dog in this race but the reality is Q feels how he feels rather is it is correct or not.

The man is entitled 2 his opinion isn't he?

Gray you know just as well as I do that saying nice comments like Michael is talented, Michael didnt need me, Michael did just about everything, Michael is misunderstood then ONCE he passes it changes to... Michael took chemical peels to bleach his skin, Michael was nothing without me, Michael was hard to work with etc

You know just as well as any SANE person that that is hyprocritical.... OR AT LEAST I HOPE

The man IS entitled to his opinion but its PHONEY to speak badly once someone passes when he wasnt doing that when he was alive.....

I guess I haven't followed the before and after comments. I understand your perspective but one thing I know about the entertainment business I learned 1st hand, people are not who they appear 2 be............... when u are NOT around.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

Gray you know just as well as I do that saying nice comments like Michael is talented, Michael didnt need me, Michael did just about everything, Michael is misunderstood then ONCE he passes it changes to... Michael took chemical peels to bleach his skin, Michael was nothing without me, Michael was hard to work with etc

You know just as well as any SANE person that that is hyprocritical.... OR AT LEAST I HOPE

The man IS entitled to his opinion but its PHONEY to speak badly once someone passes when he wasnt doing that when he was alive.....

I guess I haven't followed the before and after comments. I understand your perspective but one thing I know about the entertainment business I learned 1st hand, people are not who they appear 2 be............... when u are NOT around.

Right and I also see your point.

I think its ridiculous how in each of these MJ related topics its mandatory to talk about MJs flaws in defense of pointing out someone elses. This has nothing to do with Michaels problems.

Quincy Jones called himself a brother and a friend to Michael............... FRIENDS dont do that to friends period. but its clear he was not a real friend to Michael... just like the rest of everyone else who shitted and trashed him after his passing.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:49pm]

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

I guess I haven't followed the before and after comments. I understand your perspective but one thing I know about the entertainment business I learned 1st hand, people are not who they appear 2 be............... when u are NOT around.

Right and I also see your point.

I think its ridiculous how in each of these MJ related topics its mandatory to talk about MJs flaws in defense of pointing out someone elses. This has nothing to do with Michaels problems.

Quincy Jones called himself a brother and a friend to Michael............... FRIENDS dont do that to friends period. but its clear he was not a real friend to Michael... just like the rest of everyone else who shitted and trashed him after his passing.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:49pm]

It is sad all the way around. Mj really needed someone strong in his corner and quite frankly, I never saw it.

Graycap23 said:

kibbles said:

yes, it does lessen it, gray. b/c i really don't what q has said that has any relevance beyond stroking his own ego.

am i supposed to find some "lesson" in the fact that he doesn't like the color of mj's kids' skin? or q's belief that mj purposely bleached his own instead of acknowledging that mj had vitiligo? that he believes that mj was untalented? that he apparently believes in his heart that mj would have been nothing w/o him?

what scorp posted - which i don't agree with for a lot of reasons but which you do agree with - is what scorp posted. but here's the thing: quincy jones has not come anywhere near close to making the argument that scorp did. all quincy jones is doing is gratuitously trashing mj, and to the extent that i don't know what it's supposed to be revealing about mj, it's a dick move.

i could possibly understand your argument if quincy had actually said something substantive about mj, if he were actually opening a broader discussion, or making a contribution to the discussion. if he really thought that mj had made some errors in judgment or had betrayed his "blackness", or had watered down his music, or had become to big for his britches - whatever his problem with mj was (maybe all of the things scorp posted), then he could be saying that. he isn't. he's simply taking shots, that's all. moreover, if he felt it necessary to make these running commentaries on mj, then yes, the fact that mj is dead does again lessen what he has to say.

again, i really don't understand the relevance of his utterances about mj b/c i'm not sure exactly what the point of them are besides merely trashing for the sake of trashing. gee, you don't like the music that mj produced w/o you, so you make a correlation between the fact that you weren't in his life and the fact that 'dangerous' and 'history' sold less than 'thriller' as proof that he was nothing w/o you? (btw, i believe bad and dangerous were pretty neck and neck in terms of sales upon release.) i think that's b.s. if he didn't like mj, he could have been a man and trashed him while he was alive.

[Edited 9/25/12 13:02pm]

I don't have a dog in this race but the reality is Q feels how he feels rather is it is correct or not.

The man is entitled 2 his opinion isn't he?

yes, absolutely. which i said more or less in my previous post:

if q felt that way about mj, fine. he's allowed not to like mj. but be a man and say it instead of going around telling everyone he was like your little brother and what not like he was doing all those years when mj was alive.

maybe it's like you said, people aren't who they appear to be and q was always this prickly, two-faced a**hole, and he was just waiting for his moment to unload all of this bitterness, and now he has his golden opportunity to do so unchallenged. i'm just taken aback at depth of his contempt, i guess.

That interview is the first time he has not seemed drunk to me in a long while!

mjscarousal said:

Michael just cant never catch a break can he

He is trash in almost EVERY SINGLE THREAD and nobody says shit

but let someone point out Janets, Quincy or etc flaws and all of a sudden MJ fans are the most delusional people ever! But MJ is the ONLY person that does ANYTHING wrong and has to CONSTANTLY be trashed.

SAD.

FUCK PRINCE.ORG HYPROCRITES

THAT^ is because when some of us do says shit in defense of the late MJJ, the mods would lock those threads and remind everyone to post all Michael-related issue in the MJJ sticky thread.

? If MJ thought rap was dead then how come he wrote songs with rap verses in them for post Bad albums ?

Why yall believe what this senile man says

I take ANYTHING this man says for a grain of salt even non related to MJ

Emancipation89 said:

Did he really never personally tell you he was moving on?

He didn’t, no. It’s O.K., man. It’s not like I’m gonna roll over and die. He told his manager that I was losing it, that I didn’t understand the business because I didn’t understand in 1987 that rap was dead. Rap wasn’t dead. Rap hadn’t even started yet.

? If MJ thought rap was dead then how come he wrote songs with rap verses in them for post Bad albums ?

He changed his mind LOL. Prince changed his mind on rap aswell. Quincy apparantly suggested MJ work with Teddy so at least there is that (Teddy remixed one of tracks off Q's album).

mjscarousal said:

Why yall believe what this senile man says

I take ANYTHING this man says for a grain of salt even non related to MJ

Cuz this part right here gotza to be all kinds of fabrication

I mean dayum...Pac said on TAPE that Quincy wanted him to fuck him in the ass and its is widely known that Q have sex parties at his mansion that put he playboy mansion to shame. Allegedly, when Katt Williams did his infamous standup at ATL Civic Center (2006?) talking about hollyweird sex parties, he was talking about a night at Q's crib.

In 1986/87,didn't Michael record a song with Run DMC called "Crack Kills",intended for the Bad album? this would contradict Quincy's comments about MJ saying that rap was dead.