Graycap23 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I feel this is the reason why Janet stop working with JJ & TL. She wanted to prove she can be successful musically without them...

How did that work out 4 her?

Well she has only done one album totally without them. So the jury is still out on that.She has been working more on her acting career lately. Which she has been very successful at.With several number# 1 movies under her belt.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

An artist can play 9 instruments it doesnt necessarily mean their MUSIC and what they create is good or quality.

So people are suppose to like musicians MUSIC ONLY because they can play an instrument?

Seems rather snobbish if you ask me.

That doesnt mean what they make is good or their music.

Why would I or anyone be discussing the musicians that don't make "good" music?

That comment can be applied 2 any walk of life.

My point is it can be argued both ways

its snobbish to just X out anybody who doesnt play instruments on their record and thats what you were implying.

Musicianship is most definitly appreciated but if the MUSIC IS GOOD whether or not the person plays instruments on the song or not is pretty irrelevant and especially if that is something they are not getting credit for anyway.

Nobody in here insisted MJ plays alot of instruments (although he does play a few instruments which most people are unware of) I just insisted on some of his notable hits as well as for other artists he has done production by HIS SELF since some in here insisted he has NEVER done that which is FALSE and he was more than capable of producing an entire album by his self he really wanted to.

[Edited 9/27/12 9:15am]

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Why would I or anyone be discussing the musicians that don't make "good" music?

That comment can be applied 2 any walk of life.

My point is it can be argued both ways

its snobbish to just X out anybody who doesnt play instruments on their record and thats what you were implying.

Musicianship is most definitly appreciated but if the MUSIC IS GOOD whether or not the person plays instruments on the song or not is pretty irrelevant and especially if that is something they are not getting credit for anyway.

Nobody in here insisted MJ plays alot of instruments (although he does play a few instruments which most people are unware of) I just insisted on some of his notable hits as well as for other artists he has done production by HIS SELF since some in here insisted he has NEVER done that which is FALSE and he was more than capable of producing an entire album by his self he really wanted to.

[Edited 9/27/12 9:15am]

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Why would I or anyone be discussing the musicians that don't make "good" music?

That comment can be applied 2 any walk of life.

My point is it can be argued both ways

its snobbish to just X out anybody who doesnt play instruments on their record and thats what you were implying.

Musicianship is most definitly appreciated but if the MUSIC IS GOOD whether or not the person plays instruments on the song or not is pretty irrelevant and especially if that is something they are not getting credit for anyway.

Nobody in here insisted MJ plays alot of instruments (although he does play a few instruments which most people are unware of) I just insisted on some of his notable hits as well as for other artists he has done production by HIS SELF since some in here insisted he has NEVER done that which is FALSE and he was more than capable of producing an entire album by his self he really wanted to.

[Edited 9/27/12 9:15am]

Wishful thinking.................

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

My point is it can be argued both ways

its snobbish to just X out anybody who doesnt play instruments on their record and thats what you were implying.

Musicianship is most definitly appreciated but if the MUSIC IS GOOD whether or not the person plays instruments on the song or not is pretty irrelevant and especially if that is something they are not getting credit for anyway.

Nobody in here insisted MJ plays alot of instruments (although he does play a few instruments which most people are unware of) I just insisted on some of his notable hits as well as for other artists he has done production by HIS SELF since some in here insisted he has NEVER done that which is FALSE and he was more than capable of producing an entire album by his self he really wanted to.

[Edited 9/27/12 9:15am]

Wishful thinking.................

How so if their is evidence that PROVES that?

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Wishful thinking.................

How so if their is evidence that PROVES that?

Mj is what he was.............and that was pretty damn good. I don't see the point in hyping him in an area he clearly spent very little time in.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

My point is it can be argued both ways

its snobbish to just X out anybody who doesnt play instruments on their record and thats what you were implying.

Musicianship is most definitly appreciated but if the MUSIC IS GOOD whether or not the person plays instruments on the song or not is pretty irrelevant and especially if that is something they are not getting credit for anyway.

Nobody in here insisted MJ plays alot of instruments (although he does play a few instruments which most people are unware of) I just insisted on some of his notable hits as well as for other artists he has done production by HIS SELF since some in here insisted he has NEVER done that which is FALSE and he was more than capable of producing an entire album by his self he really wanted to.

[Edited 9/27/12 9:15am]

Wishful thinking.................

I'm sure he could have produced an album by himself, but not the kind of album he wanted to make. That is why he was smart enough to use outside producers.

It's actually to his credit as an artist that he knew his limitations. As you say, he is good enough as what he was, there is no need to pretend he was something more.

Graycap23 said:

mjscarousal said:

How so if their is evidence that PROVES that?

Mj is what he was.............and that was pretty damn good. I don't see the point in hyping him in an area he clearly spent very little time in.

I am not hyping him in any area

You said named an album that he produced himself? There isnt any but I gave a FEW songs that he wrote and produced ALONE. I think its absurd to say that he was not capable of producing an album by his self when he has CLEALY produced songs by his self and they were successful hits. That shows that he WAS CAPABLE if he really wanted to produce an album by his self.

You are being snobbish and not being open minded at all in this arguement.

You dont have to like MJ BUT Be fair and give credit where it is dued!!!!!!

You want to minimize him as just an entertainer when he was much more than that. 98 percent BAD was written BY Michael Jackson ALONE and he co produced as well as half of Thriller and OTW and the rest of his entire catalogue. He deserves to be called an Artist and is an all around artist and entertainer.

Dont sit up here and say bullshit insisting that he couldnt produce an album by his self or hasnt when I clearly gave you a few NOTABLE songs that he has that you probably was unaware of that he exactly produced himself among others.

[Edited 9/27/12 11:37am]

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Mj is what he was.............and that was pretty damn good. I don't see the point in hyping him in an area he clearly spent very little time in.

I am not hyping him in any area

You said named an album that he produced himself? There isnt any but I gave a FEW songs that he wrote and produced ALONE. I think its absurd to say that he was not capable of producing an album by his self when he has CLEALY produced songs by his self and they were successful hits. That shows that he WAS CAPABLE if he really wanted to produce an album by his self.

You are being snobbish and not being open minded at all in this arguement.

You dont have to like MJ BUT Be fair and give credit where it is dued!!!!!!

You want to minimize him as just an entertainer when he was much more than that. 98 percent BAD was written BY Michael Jackson ALONE and he co produced as well as half of Thriller and OTW and the rest of his entire catalogue. He deserves to be called an Artist and is an all around artist and entertainer.

Dont sit up here and say bullshit insisting that he couldnt produce an album by his self or hasnt when I clearly gave you a few NOTABLE songs that he has that you probably was unaware of that he exactly produced himself among others.

[Edited 9/27/12 11:37am]

Interesting. I'm actually a big fan of Mj but I can only see any artist as he is or was.

In Mj's case, producing a few songs over 40 years is not the same as producing an entire singular project.

mjscarousal said:

Graycap23 said:

Mj is what he was.............and that was pretty damn good. I don't see the point in hyping him in an area he clearly spent very little time in.

I am not hyping him in any area

You said named an album that he produced himself? There isnt any but I gave a FEW songs that he wrote and produced ALONE. I think its absurd to say that he was not capable of producing an album by his self when he has CLEALY produced songs by his self and they were successful hits. That shows that he WAS CAPABLE if he really wanted to produce an album by his self.

You are being snobbish and not being open minded at all in this arguement.

You dont have to like MJ BUT Be fair and give credit where it is dued!!!!!!

You want to minimize him as just an entertainer when he was much more than that. 98 percent BAD was written BY Michael Jackson ALONE and he co produced as well as half of Thriller and OTW and the rest of his entire catalogue. He deserves to be called an Artist and is an all around artist and entertainer.

Dont sit up here and say bullshit insisting that he couldnt produce an album by his self or hasnt when I clearly gave you a few NOTABLE songs that he has that you probably was unaware of that he exactly produced himself among others.

[Edited 9/27/12 11:37am]

True. People always want to minimize MJs music and make him some type of entertainer puppet who did not have any type of control of his music. He was a musical genius, just like Prince and Stevie. They changed music forever.

bboy87 said:

They've both had their blunders. Michael had some stinkers on Invincble and his decision to include those awful remixes on Thriller 25 was a TERRIBLE one that fans still are pissed about. Quincy's last album, that Bossa Nova one was straight assjuice

Honestly, hand on heart - I actually like The Girl Is Mine with Will.i.am - the others -

NDRU said:

Graycap23 said:

Wishful thinking.................

I'm sure he could have produced an album by himself, but not the kind of album he wanted to make. That is why he was smart enough to use outside producers.

It's actually to his credit as an artist that he knew his limitations. As you say, he is good enough as what he was, there is no need to pretend he was something more.

I agree with this. MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

NDRU said:

I'm sure he could have produced an album by himself, but not the kind of album he wanted to make. That is why he was smart enough to use outside producers.

It's actually to his credit as an artist that he knew his limitations. As you say, he is good enough as what he was, there is no need to pretend he was something more.

I agree with this. MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

He couldn't do it in three years - with every dang producer and musician in the whole world at his disposal! We get it - you're a perfectionist already!

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

2freaky4church1 said:

He hates Prince, I do know that.

I don't see how he can hate Prince . But then want Prince to duet with MJ at the same time. It doesn't make since to me. He supposedly set up the whole meeting of them two. I was shocked not long ago when I heard that Prince said Quincy said he wasn't a good keyboard player. Which is ridiculous.I like Prince's keyboard playing better than his guitar playing......

First of all who cares if Quicy Jones does not like Prince. I am pretty sure P is not losing any sleep over it.

Secondly, you are right way try to set up the song if Q hate Prince. Maybe Q was mad because P would not join Q's gay sex parties (just joking ).

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

NDRU said:

I'm sure he could have produced an album by himself, but not the kind of album he wanted to make. That is why he was smart enough to use outside producers.

It's actually to his credit as an artist that he knew his limitations. As you say, he is good enough as what he was, there is no need to pretend he was something more.

I agree with this. MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

I agree with the parts in bold also. It's really NOT a bad thing that MJ knew his limitations as it pertains to record production, nor is it a bad thing that he knew how to work with producres that could capture his vision. Luther Vandross also comes to mind. He could and DID produce whole lps, but he also worked with other producers when and as needed.

Love & miss Luther. I wish his legacy was treated like Mj's & Whitney's......

Scorp said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

NDRU said:

I'm sure he could have produced an album by himself, but not the kind of album he wanted to make. That is why he was smart enough to use outside producers.

It's actually to his credit as an artist that he knew his limitations. As you say, he is good enough as what he was, there is no need to pretend he was something more.

I agree with this. MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

Prince doesn't exactly produce hits though does he?

KCOOLMUZIQ said

MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

Without question,Prince is a genuis and he can do it all.But that doesn't mean that everything he does is great.After hearing his latest single (the bland "Rock N Roll Love Affair" ),I don't think it would be such a bad idea for him to collaborate with a producer He's running low on inspiration these days.

Scorp said:

^{"Off The Wall" only sold five million copies worldwide during promotion. It was not until the mid 1990's that it had been recertified at selling 15 million copies worldwide. By the time Michael Jackson had passed away in 2009 only then were the worldwide sales at twenty million which is what it is at this time."}

Back in the 70s,a black artist selling 5 million+ copies was extremely rare.Not too many people were doing that.The amazing success of 'OTW' pretty much guaranteed that his next solo record,Thriller',would be an even bigger seller.

caleb2003 said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I agree with this. MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

Prince doesn't exactly produce hits though does he?

Ohh lawrd.........

SoulAlive said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said

MJ could not sit in a studio like PRINCE & produce a whole album by himself in three days or a week. Produce,engineer,mix,arrange & feel confident enough to know it will be a hit & release it to be mastered.He needed a big known producer & musicians to play & finish it for him.Prince did this his whole career & still does.Plus plays all the instruments himself...

Without question,Prince is a genuis and he can do it all.But that doesn't mean that everything he does is great.After hearing his latest single (the bland "Rock N Roll Love Affair" ),I don't think it would be such a bad idea for him to collaborate with a producer He's running low on inspiration these days.

Everything Mj did wasn't great either. That is why they can't find anything in his vault hit worthy anymore. I mean "This is It" was cute. But boo boo didn't even write it. Paul Anka did plus he didn't even know MJ stole it from him, until a decade later when Sony released it.

Don't underestimate Prince. After he is gone They can release an album a year for 30 years and still won't be finish. Remember Tupaq?

[Edited 9/28/12 9:10am]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SoulAlive said:

Without question,Prince is a genuis and he can do it all.But that doesn't mean that everything he does is great.After hearing his latest single (the bland "Rock N Roll Love Affair" ),I don't think it would be such a bad idea for him to collaborate with a producer He's running low on inspiration these days.

Everything Mj did wasn't great either. That is why they can't find anything in his vault hit worthy anymore. Don't underestimate Prince. After he is gone They can release an album a year for 30 years and still won't be finish. Remember Tupaq?

SHUT THE FUCK UP HATER

Its clear you havent heard ANY songs from the Vault and it just PAINS you that MJ has some better songs than Prince... YOU BROUGHT THE COMPARISIONS UP...

WHY ARE YOU COMPARING THEM????

Are you 5? I have a very hard time believing you are an adult... you post the stupidiest shit ever

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

SoulAlive said:

Without question,Prince is a genuis and he can do it all.But that doesn't mean that everything he does is great.After hearing his latest single (the bland "Rock N Roll Love Affair" ),I don't think it would be such a bad idea for him to collaborate with a producer He's running low on inspiration these days.

Everything Mj did wasn't great either. That is why they can't find anything in his vault hit worthy anymore. Don't underestimate Prince. After he is gone They can release an album a year for 30 years and still won't be finish. Remember Tupaq?

Obviously both artists have weak material but it's weak only in comparison to their body of work but not compared to other artists (well some songs are horrible but still) lol. I dont agree with that at all, MJs vault is full with great songs, many of them unheard. The classical/film score pieces that he was working on in 09 are yet to see the light of the world, and according to David Michael Frank (composer of the orchestral parts in the music) he's just waiting for the estate to say agree on the release of the project. He was also working on another pop album in 09, so it's about Sony not wanting to give all of it out.

I think Prince could benefit using a co-producer, it'd probably give his music more dimension and more focus. I think when Prince dies, we'll get a lot of music, unless he does what Stevie Wonder wants to do which is to destroy his mastertapes (dont know if that's true, but I read that in an interview some time ago).

Ok I'm going to be straight up here:

While I think it's awesome that Prince can go to a studio and, ALMOST, create an album all by himself it's not like he's the ONLY person in the music biz who does this. In fact I know of one particualr artist who does all of the work all by himself and his album releases makes Prince look like a lazy bum. Does this make him far superior musician to Prince simply because he can excel where Prince fails?

No, but according to some of you it would definitely be a yes.

I mean, at the end of the day I really don't know what bearing this information has on any of you unless you are planning on hiring him or you are his accountant or you are in charge of his payroll. The fact that he can do everything himself does make things a lot cheaper for him and the studio, but the fact that MJ couldn't means that MJ could hire way more musicians to help him out. You know what that means right? That means that more musicians, especially black musicians, were able to have work because of him. That's a GOOD thing too. In fact, it's admirable and I think it's awesome to want to help the community out as well as helping to jumpstart the careers of many other musicians. Siedah Garrett personally stated how nuturing he was and how helped and encouraged the musicians he worked with. Many of them are doing or have done some great things. Not all musicians are like that...like Madonna for instance.

I always find that it's mostly a recent Western thing that stresses that things having to be done individually as opposed to people working together on it. It's as if it's frowned upon as if many great people working on something is less authentic than one person. I find that line of thought to be stupid quite frankly and just mirrors that line of thought Rolling Stone had been infecting the population with since the late 60s. Especially since music always been something made for people to come together and enjoy as opposed to fulfilling one's self-indulgence. I mean yeah, one instrument sounds good, but when you combine that one instrument with many others it sounds even better. Just like the saying goes, two heads are better than one.

GoldDolphin said:

I think Prince could benefit using a co-producer, it'd probably give his music more dimension and more focus.

THIS X 100,000,000,000,000

Unholyalliance said:

Ok I'm going to be straight up here:

While I think it's awesome that Prince can go to a studio and, ALMOST, create an album all by himself it's not like he's the ONLY person in the music biz who does this. In fact I know of one particualr artist who does all of the work all by himself and his album releases makes Prince look like a lazy bum. Does this make him far superior musician to Prince simply because he can excel where Prince fails?

No, but according to some of you it would definitely be a yes.

I mean, at the end of the day I really don't know what bearing this information has on any of you unless you are planning on hiring him or you are his accountant or you are in charge of his payroll. The fact that he can do everything himself does make things a lot cheaper for him and the studio, but the fact that MJ couldn't means that MJ could hire way more musicians to help him out. You know what that means right? That means that more musicians, especially black musicians, were able to have work because of him. That's a GOOD thing too. In fact, it's admirable and I think it's awesome to want to help the community out as well as helping to jumpstart the careers of many other musicians. Siedah Garrett personally stated how nuturing he was and how helped and encouraged the musicians he worked with. Many of them are doing or have done some great things. Not all musicians are like that...like Madonna for instance.

I always find that it's mostly a recent Western thing that stresses that things having to be done individually as opposed to people working together on it. It's as if it's frowned upon as if many great people working on something is less authentic than one person. I find that line of thought to be stupid quite frankly and just mirrors that line of thought Rolling Stone had been infecting the population with since the late 60s. Especially since music always been something made for people to come together and enjoy as opposed to fulfilling one's self-indulgence. I mean yeah, one instrument sounds good, but when you combine that one instrument with many others it sounds even better. Just like the saying goes, two heads are better than one.

I wrote something similar to this on page (about producing an album by yourself) 4 lol, but I agree with you. I'm not surprised that people praise a product made by one person only, because we live in an egocentric era, where everything is about YOU and not the group. Music has always been about people playing together and nurture each other. It's a collective thing that shouldnt be looked as bad. Esparanza Spalding said this in an interview not to long ago, where she was talking about music being about a colloborative thing between musicians and not an individual.

I'm so glad you mentioned Siedah Garrett and how she mentioned that Mike encouraged his musicians, because what people seem to forget is that Michael has helped out so many musicians and workers. Michael was known in the industry for helping blacks and latinos.

mjscarousal said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Everything Mj did wasn't great either. That is why they can't find anything in his vault hit worthy anymore. Don't underestimate Prince. After he is gone They can release an album a year for 30 years and still won't be finish. Remember Tupaq?

SHUT THE FUCK UP HATER

Its clear you havent heard ANY songs from the Vault and it just PAINS you that MJ has some better songs than Prince... YOU BROUGHT THE COMPARISIONS UP...

WHY ARE YOU COMPARING THEM????

Are you 5? I have a very hard time believing you are an adult... you post the stupidiest shit ever

No 7V3N...

mjscarousal said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Everything Mj did wasn't great either. That is why they can't find anything in his vault hit worthy anymore. Don't underestimate Prince. After he is gone They can release an album a year for 30 years and still won't be finish. Remember Tupaq?

SHUT THE FUCK UP HATER

Its clear you havent heard ANY songs from the Vault and it just PAINS you that MJ has some better songs than Prince... YOU BROUGHT THE COMPARISIONS UP...

WHY ARE YOU COMPARING THEM????

Are you 5? I have a very hard time believing you are an adult... you post the stupidiest shit ever

calm down, you need to learn how to respect other peoples opinions without getting emotional and defensive. anyway...far as this mj producer thing, who cares? knowing your limitations and finding people to compliment your talent is a skill more artists should use. i mean dont you think it was best for mj to use other producers and make great music then to be like prince and make a bunch of forgettable albums just to be called a 'genius'?