OldFriends4Sale said:

M, She also writes & cowrites her songs Janet didn't write till the Janet album overall and a lot of what Janet does is copying Michael Jackson moves and some other things as well as some things of Madonna(Janet shows at times tend to be predictable like her albums), how much of Michaels songs were all Michaels writing, Whitney didn't write her songs.

WoW

I'm sorry, of course, but Michael is much more capable songwriter than Madonna.
Madonna wrote the last song on their own in 1984, after which it is constantly in need of assistance from others.
MJ wrote on their own (music and lyrics) the majority of his biggest hits. MJ entered Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2002.

I am very surprised that your comment .... this is really weird.
Mariah Carrey is also more capable songwriter than Madonna ... Mariah wrote many songs on their own.

[Edited 7/25/12 11:39am]

musicjunky318 said:

mjscarousal said:

I think its insulting to Michaels accomplishments and TALENT than you would even sit here and compare him to MADONNA not to mention Madonna doesnt even have the same popularity as Michael. Her being a good business woman has NOTHING to do with this thread and they were TWO DIFFERENT people than with through DIFFERENT things that had DIFFERENT childhoods. Stop trying to bash Michael and put him down. Nobody insisted that all the choices he made was perfect for you to make this post in this thread that has nothing to do with MADONNA

I'm not bashing Michael at all. I think it's a fair analysis. He had a sad life in a lot ways that he talked about himself. I wish he didn't and I actually said in there that I wish he didn't but what's fact is fact. I was making a contrast between someone who has more talent yet struggled personally and someone with less talent but runs a pretty stable life and career. Where is the lie in that? Where is the insult? If anything I'm elevating his gifts.

I was being as objective as possible. I admire the both of them.

C'mon y'all, get a room start a new thread.

Katherine's in her 80s, isn't she? Being the guardian of three children is just too much to handle at her age.

purplethunder3121 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Katherine's in her 80s, isn't she? Being the guardian of three children is just too much to handle at her age.

Any attempt from her attorney to get her back rights to custody of the children will be moot at this point. The judge saw through the b.s. of her attorney.

I feel like Mike almost knew deep down he was gonna die you ng, kinda like Lisa said. For real, if you're writing a will, wy put your mother as the one who will be the guardian of your children, or even Diana Ross, presuming that when you die they will have been long dead?

If the last week is any indication Katherine wasn't much of a guardian to begin with.

I kept asking where the hell is Diana?

The judge apparently didn't buy the bs Randy was peddling in regards to Katherine. Now they're really SOL!

Timmy84 said:

I hope Randy, Rebbie, Jermaine and Janet are happy... their mother no longer holds any custodian rights with the children. The judge wants TJ to grant PERMANENT rights now...

Sources please!

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

I kept asking where the hell is Diana?

To be honest? She don't wanna watch these damn kids.

Timmy84 said:

I hope Randy, Rebbie, Jermaine and Janet are happy... their mother no longer holds any custodian rights with the children. The judge wants TJ to grant PERMANENT rights now...

I hear you. this whole fiasco wasn't every well thought out at all. Didn't they now this all basically reads like reads like lost episodes of Hart To Hart, My Millan & Wife, and Magnum P.I. ?

Stil, I would say no worries. The grandchildren appear to adore Miss Katherine, and as she's returning home to LA I'm sure she will not be displaced in their lives. Besides, she is still one of the heirs to the will so she will be straight.

Now that I've gotten some clarification on California estate law, I think she'll be okay. I just hope her health can stand up to her ornery ass children and they won't descend like vultures over her estate in the case of her untimely passing from "ill health" and "stress".

Now TJ...he will have an allowance for the kid's expenses, but his every move is subject to the executors. Unlike Miss Katherine he doesn't have any additional monies set aside from the will, and he's also not seeking to remove the executors either unlike his aunts & uncles so I'm betting that he might actually have his cousins' best interest at heart over anything else.

The big key here if we wanted a greed motive is- it's all about getting those executors removed, and putting others in place that could possibly do one's bidding. Control of the money, that's where the power lies. I see deals that can bring certain members of the family a lifetime supply of homes around the world, cuts and commissions on branding deals, merchandising with future diviends, etc. When I look back for example, on how itchy Jermaine's ass was to keep Neverland and open it as an amusement park with his very public crusade for that foolishness, despite of how his brother publicly declared he could no longer stand that place. 1. His brother hated that joint and 2. at the time the estate was in the red, and this was his solution for how the money should be invested for Michael's children? Wait... actually, I've never heard him address the welfare of Mike's kids, I just heard ad nauseum about keeping his brother's legacy alive and how Neverland was the beacon of hope and promise to reflect that. Lawd, you know Michael's money in an executor of Jermaine's choosing baiscally is going to go toward his groupie harems in Baharain and his 59 children.

musicology54 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Katherine's in her 80s, isn't she? Being the guardian of three children is just too much to handle at her age.

Agreed.

yep. she probably shouldn't have been the guardian in the first place. i'm a little skeptical of tj as well, as i'm not sure that he *isn't* also inclined to exert undue influence over mj3 when it comes to 'family' enterprises.

case in point, the wales concert fiasco. he and his brothers participated in that crap, and likely were a determining factor in mj3's participation. it was done to thumb the nose at the very men who are in charge of the estate which benefits mj3. i know that one of his brothers, taj, was very, very vocal about his displeasure at the estate for 'michael'; i'm sure that he still bears some ill will towards them, and i'm just as sure that he will be around mj3. remember, the true end game in all this is to try to turn the beneficiaries against the estate execs. if they couldn't turn katherine, maybe they'll be able to get at mj3(?).

since the judge set no limitation on who can be around mj3, what's to stop rebbie, janet, randy, jermaine from trying to contact them by phone or something? what's to stop them from using katherine to get at tj? that's how they got to mj, they sent katherine to do their bidding for the things that they wanted from him.

Timmy84 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Katherine's in her 80s, isn't she? Being the guardian of three children is just too much to handle at her age.

Any attempt from her attorney to get her back rights to custody of the children will be moot at this point. The judge saw through the b.s. of her attorney.

I'm not liking this Perry Sanders guy. Even tho he's Katherine's attorney he sounds like he's trying to downplay the actions of Randy and them and spin this as "Katherine just went to the spa for some R&R and this was all a big misunderstanding." But her other attorney Sandra Ribiera tells a different story and says that Katherine is being held against her will. I think Perry is a bit on the shady side too.

smoothcriminal12 said:

I feel like Mike almost knew deep down he was gonna die you ng, kinda like Lisa said. For real, if you're writing a will, wy put your mother as the one who will be the guardian of your children, or even Diana Ross, presuming that when you die they will have been long dead?

Are you serious?

Naming his mother as guardian of his children in case of death, does not mean he thought he would die young. It's a necessary precaution.

[Edited 7/25/12 11:54am]

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Any attempt from her attorney to get her back rights to custody of the children will be moot at this point. The judge saw through the b.s. of her attorney.

I'm not liking this Perry Sanders guy. Even tho he's Katherine's attorney he sounds like he's trying to downplay the actions of Randy and them and spin this as "Katherine just went to the spa for some R&R and this was all a big misunderstanding." But her other attorney Sandra Ribiera tells a different story and says that Katherine is being held against her will. I think Perry is a bit on the shady side too.

What judge is going to believe that Katherine was held against her will? Not everyone is as crazy as MJ fans.

Someone needs to start a new thread cause this one is starting to really lag.

Azz said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I feel like Mike almost knew deep down he was gonna die you ng, kinda like Lisa said. For real, if you're writing a will, wy put your mother as the one who will be the guardian of your children, or even Diana Ross, presuming that when you die they will have been long dead?

Are you serious?

Naming his mother as guardian of his children in case of death, does not mean he thought he would die young.

Yeah I'm serious. Even if I'm wrong he still thought he would die young.

kibbles said:

musicology54 said:

purplethunder3121 said: Agreed.

yep. she probably shouldn't have been the guardian in the first place. i'm a little skeptical of tj as well, as i'm not sure that he *isn't* also inclined to exert undue influence over mj3 when it comes to 'family' enterprises.

case in point, the wales concert fiasco. he and his brothers participated in that crap, and likely were a determining factor in mj3's participation. it was done to thumb the nose at the very men who are in charge of the estate which benefits mj3. i know that one of his brothers, taj, was very, very vocal about his displeasure at the estate for 'michael'; i'm sure that he still bears some ill will towards them, and i'm just as sure that he will be around mj3. remember, the true end game in all this is to try to turn the beneficiaries against the estate execs. if they couldn't turn katherine, maybe they'll be able to get at mj3(?).

since the judge set no limitation on who can be around mj3, what's to stop rebbie, janet, randy, jermaine from trying to contact them by phone or something? what's to stop them from using katherine to get at tj? that's how they got to mj, they sent katherine to do their bidding for the things that they wanted from him.

This is what I am thinking.

Why would MJ fans believe that TJ is less fame or money oriented than the other Jackson siblings. Afterall, I assume he has little to no money income after T3 diminished.

Isn't anyone slightly skepitical? Am I the only one who noticed that as soon as TJ was clambering his way into custody of the three children, all of a sudden, Tito announces his retraction of his signature.

Highly suspect!

kibbles said:

musicology54 said:

purplethunder3121 said: Agreed.

yep. she probably shouldn't have been the guardian in the first place. i'm a little skeptical of tj as well, as i'm not sure that he *isn't* also inclined to exert undue influence over mj3 when it comes to 'family' enterprises.

case in point, the wales concert fiasco. he and his brothers participated in that crap, and likely were a determining factor in mj3's participation. it was done to thumb the nose at the very men who are in charge of the estate which benefits mj3. i know that one of his brothers, taj, was very, very vocal about his displeasure at the estate for 'michael'; i'm sure that he still bears some ill will towards them, and i'm just as sure that he will be around mj3. remember, the true end game in all this is to try to turn the beneficiaries against the estate execs. if they couldn't turn katherine, maybe they'll be able to get at mj3(?).

since the judge set no limitation on who can be around mj3, what's to stop rebbie, janet, randy, jermaine from trying to contact them by phone or something? what's to stop them from using katherine to get at tj? that's how they got to mj, they sent katherine to do their bidding for the things that they wanted from him.

Very good points you made here. Its good that TJ and MJ3 have a good relationship....but even if he ends up getting permanent guardianship--how is that going to stop the other Jacksons from going after him?

Azz said:

kibbles said:

yep. she probably shouldn't have been the guardian in the first place. i'm a little skeptical of tj as well, as i'm not sure that he *isn't* also inclined to exert undue influence over mj3 when it comes to 'family' enterprises.

case in point, the wales concert fiasco. he and his brothers participated in that crap, and likely were a determining factor in mj3's participation. it was done to thumb the nose at the very men who are in charge of the estate which benefits mj3. i know that one of his brothers, taj, was very, very vocal about his displeasure at the estate for 'michael'; i'm sure that he still bears some ill will towards them, and i'm just as sure that he will be around mj3. remember, the true end game in all this is to try to turn the beneficiaries against the estate execs. if they couldn't turn katherine, maybe they'll be able to get at mj3(?).

since the judge set no limitation on who can be around mj3, what's to stop rebbie, janet, randy, jermaine from trying to contact them by phone or something? what's to stop them from using katherine to get at tj? that's how they got to mj, they sent katherine to do their bidding for the things that they wanted from him.

This is what I am thinking.

Why would MJ fans believe that TJ is less fame or money oriented than the other Jackson siblings. Afterall, I assume he has little to no money income after T3 diminished.

Isn't anyone slightly skepitical? Am I the only one who noticed that as soon as TJ was clambering his way into custody of the three children, all of a sudden, Tito announces his retraction of his signature.

Highly suspect!

Didn't you say that the siblings are not after MJ's money?

NaughtyKitty said:

Timmy84 said:

Any attempt from her attorney to get her back rights to custody of the children will be moot at this point. The judge saw through the b.s. of her attorney.

I'm not liking this Perry Sanders guy. Even tho he's Katherine's attorney he sounds like he's trying to downplay the actions of Randy and them and spin this as "Katherine just went to the spa for some R&R and this was all a big misunderstanding." But her other attorney Sandra Ribiera tells a different story and says that Katherine is being held against her will. I think Perry is a bit on the shady side too.

Or maybe he's confused. He said he tried to reach Katherine but apparently Jermaine and Janet won't let him talk to her. Randy said Katherine was returning to L.A. immediately but there's no word about her being there.

NaughtyKitty said:

MJ KIDS
TJ NOW TEMP GUARDIAN
KATHERINE OUT

EXCLUSIVE

11:06 AM TJ's lawyer was just advised to have TJ move to get PERMANENT GUARDIANSHIP of the kids. It should be filed in the next 48 hours.

10:34 AM JUDGE BECKLOFF JUST MADE TJ THE TEMPORARY GUARDIAN AND SUSPENDED KATHERINE'S GUARDIANSHIP!

Before Beckloff appointed TJ ... TJ's lawyer said TJ had a strange phone call with Katherine yesterday and TJ said, "I've never heard my grandmother talk like that." TJ added, "She wasn't sharp. The pauses, choice of vocabulary ... she has not used certain phrases like that before." TJ thought she was talking in code. As TJ addressed the court, he was choking up.

Beckloff said this was not a power play by TJ and ordered the Michael Jackson Estate to give TJ the funds necessary to take care of security and anything else that's needed for the children.

Before Beckloff appointed TJ, the lawyer for MJ's kids said the kids all support TJ getting temporary guardianship.

The lawyer for the MJ Estate just said the executors are very concerned for the kids and Katherine.

The judge said Katherine was not suspended for wrongdoing, but that she was prevented from doing her guardianship duties by "intentional act from third parties." In other words, the judge smells a rat in the form of Randy, Jermaine and Janet.

10:34 AM The judge just ordered that MJ's 3 kids NOT be removed from California without a court order. The judge added that TJ should file a petition for PERMANENT GUARDIANSHIP. The judge said in addition to giving Diana Ross notice, they must also give notice to Debbie Rowe.

10:33 AM Katherine's lawyer, Sandra Ribera, just said she (Sandra) has been to the house several times recently and she believes Katherine has been held against her will.

10:31 AM TJ's lawyer, Charles Schultz, just told the court, Katherine is unavailable and all they want is a temporary guardianship so he seems to be saying Ross is an unnecessary party. Schultz also said there was an "incident" at the Calabasas house last night that escalated. He added TJ is unsure Katherine is acting voluntarily

10:29 AM The Judge will not hear TJ's petition, BECAUSE no one notified Diana Ross, who is Katherine's successor to guardianship under Michael's will.


10:13 AM -- The hearing is underway. Before getting to TJ's petition, Judge Mitch Beckloff is handling several other MJ Estate matters.




TJ Jackson -- Tito's son -- is about to enter the probate court in downtown L.A., along with an army of lawyers, trying to get temporary guardianship of Michael Jackson's 3 kids.

Katherine's lawyer, Perry Sanders, tells TMZ, "This is a very tense time when of course we don't feel Mrs. Jackson should be removed as guardian and we would vigorously oppose that on anything other than an extremely short-term basis, until she returns home."

We're also told Katherine had high blood pressure before she skipped L.A., and the spa visit did her good. But TJ doesn't think it did the kids any good.

Congrats to TJ!

dag said:

Azz said:

This is what I am thinking.

Why would MJ fans believe that TJ is less fame or money oriented than the other Jackson siblings. Afterall, I assume he has little to no money income after T3 diminished.

Isn't anyone slightly skepitical? Am I the only one who noticed that as soon as TJ was clambering his way into custody of the three children, all of a sudden, Tito announces his retraction of his signature.

Highly suspect!

Didn't you say that the siblings are not after MJ's money?

Which is why I specified 'MJ fans'.

If you read any of my previous posts, you will notice I have never stated that any certain sibling is or isn't after money.

[Edited 7/25/12 12:05pm]

Ottensen said:

Timmy84 said:

I hope Randy, Rebbie, Jermaine and Janet are happy... their mother no longer holds any custodian rights with the children. The judge wants TJ to grant PERMANENT rights now...

I hear you. this whole fiasco wasn't every well thought out at all. Didn't they now this all basically reads like reads like lost episodes of Hart To Hart, My Millan & Wife, and Magnum P.I. ?

Stil, I would say no worries. The grandchildren appear to adore Miss Katherine, and as she's returning home to LA I'm sure she will not be displaced in their lives. Besides, she is still one of the heirs to the will so she will be straight.

Now that I've gotten some clarification on California estate law, I think she'll be okay. I just hope her health can stand up to her ornery ass children and they won't descend like vultures over her estate in the case of her untimely passing from "ill health" and "stress".

Now TJ...he will have an allowance for the kid's expenses, but his every move is subject to the executors. Unlike Miss Katherine he doesn't have any additional monies set aside from the will, and he's also not seeking to remove the executors either unlike his aunts & uncles so I'm betting that he might actually have his cousins' best interest at heart over anything else.

The big key here if we wanted a greed motive is- it's all about getting those executors removed, and putting others in place that could possibly do one's bidding. Control of the money, that's where the power lies. I see deals that can bring certain members of the family a lifetime supply of homes around the world, cuts and commissions on branding deals, merchandising with future diviends, etc. When I look back for example, on how itchy Jermaine's ass was to keep Neverland and open it as an amusement park with his very public crusade for that foolishness, despite of how his brother publicly declared he could no longer stand that place. 1. His brother hated that joint and 2. at the time the estate was in the red, and this was his solution for how the money should be invested for Michael's children? Wait... actually, I've never heard him address the welfare of Mike's kids, I just heard ad nauseum about keeping his brother's legacy alive and how Neverland was the beacon of hope and promise to reflect that. Lawd, you know Michael's money in an executor of Jermaine's choosing baiscally is going to go toward his groupie harems in Baharain and his 59 children.

True, maybe TJ should've been the custodian after all considering Katherine's advanced age but I don't blame Michael for thinking he could trust her even if he didn't really know what his mother was surrounded by. I don't think Katherine has a problem with TJ taking over. But Perry would further ruin her chances of getting them back full time. The estate would still take care of her though I think.

Azz said:

NaughtyKitty said:

I'm not liking this Perry Sanders guy. Even tho he's Katherine's attorney he sounds like he's trying to downplay the actions of Randy and them and spin this as "Katherine just went to the spa for some R&R and this was all a big misunderstanding." But her other attorney Sandra Ribiera tells a different story and says that Katherine is being held against her will. I think Perry is a bit on the shady side too.

What judge is going to believe that Katherine was held against her will? Not everyone is as crazy as MJ fans.

Apparently, this judge thought Katherine was just getting rest from that spoiled brat Paris, that's why Katherine's guardianship got suspended.

Maybe intelligence skips a generation in the jackson clan. Cause tj seems to be the only one that grasps how reality works.

Timmy84 said:

NaughtyKitty said:

I'm not liking this Perry Sanders guy. Even tho he's Katherine's attorney he sounds like he's trying to downplay the actions of Randy and them and spin this as "Katherine just went to the spa for some R&R and this was all a big misunderstanding." But her other attorney Sandra Ribiera tells a different story and says that Katherine is being held against her will. I think Perry is a bit on the shady side too.

Or maybe he's confused. He said he tried to reach Katherine but apparently Jermaine and Janet won't let him talk to her. Randy said Katherine was returning to L.A. immediately but there's no word about her being there.

I dont know about confused. He didnt seem too bothered about being denied access to his own client And he also said he would vigorously oppose any move to permanantly strip Katherine of guardianship. Just seems like he doesnt think this whole situation is strange and that Katherine is an any harm. But her other lawyer Sandra feels the exact opposite. You would think they both would be on the same page on this.

Katherine's lawyer, Sandra Ribera, just said she (Sandra) has been to the house several times recently and she believes Katherine has been held against her will.

Katherine's lawyer, Perry Sanders, tells TMZ, "This is a very tense time when of course we don't feel Mrs. Jackson should be removed as guardian and we would vigorously oppose that on anything other than an extremely short-term basis, until she returns home."

Interesting that Katherine's attorneys are directly contradicting themselves. No wonder the judge smelled a rat...

[Edited 7/25/12 12:17pm]

Azz said:

dag said:

Didn't you say that the siblings are not after MJ's money?

Which is why I specified 'MJ fans'.

If you read any of my previous posts, you will notice I have never stated that any certain sibling is or isn't after money.

[Edited 7/25/12 12:05pm]

Yes, we have noticed, but TJ has always been on Paris' side unlike his father, so so far he's more credible.

dag said:

Azz said:

What judge is going to believe that Katherine was held against her will? Not everyone is as crazy as MJ fans.

Apparently, this judge thought Katherine was just getting rest from that spoiled brat Paris, that's why Katherine's guardianship got suspended.

The judge said Katherine was not suspended for wrongdoing, but that she was prevented from doing her guardianship duties by "intentional act from third parties."

Azz said:

dag said:

Didn't you say that the siblings are not after MJ's money?

Which is why I specified 'MJ fans'.

If you read any of my previous posts, you will notice I have never stated that any certain sibling is or isn't after money.

[Edited 7/25/12 12:05pm]

Oh really. If I can remember you were the ones calling fans deluded for thinking they could go after the money, cause the siblings know that they are not going to get anything so why would they do that.