yeah I meant Bobby Byrd

Bobby Bennett, the longest-serving (10 years) member of the Famous Flames, talks about his induction.

Wow, interesting stuff. My hub used to tour with Bobby Byrd when he was young. Beyond talking about the music I've never really asked him what kind of anecdotes and history he got out of that experience.

scriptgirl said:

James Brown was an asshole, pure and simple. That's why I don't care for or listen to his music. His personal life colors how I see him.

You must have a very small music collection....

Didn't he pay a cost to be the boss, or something along those lines?

HuMpThAnG said:

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

Not to mention PCP...

Female reporter: James, how did all this trouble begin?

James Brown: [singing]Living in Amerrrr-iiiica... hehe something wrong?

Female reporter: Nothing wrong at all... you're not in any danger but you're out on bond.

James Brown: No I'm not.

Female reporter: Well have the charges been dropped?

James Brown: ...I'm out on love.

Female reporter: Are you out of love or out on love? Which is it?

James Brown: Out on love! [singing]I've longed from night to night ya find me...

----

[Edited 7/7/12 16:20pm]

ahh hell, put up the real deal

[img:$uid]http://i523.pho.../img:$uid]

Bootsy Collins mentioned in "Unsung" about how Bobby Byrd had to find him and the Pacemakers to replace the James Brown Band after they all left him before a concert in 1970. It's interesting to note that James didn't fire people in his band, they just up and left him because they didn't like his level of control and they felt a lot of money was not being paid to them. I'm guessing he treated the Famous Flames and the JB Band as servants than partners, even Byrd got the slack. Anyway, when the JB Band left him, James panicked because he had a concert date the day they left him so Bobby had known of the Pacemakers since they were always helping in the studio as pupils of Byrd and Brown. Byrd called them and said "James needs you right now for a gig". Bootsy said there was no rehearsal or nothing, when Byrd got the group to Brown, Brown got nonchalant all of a sudden saying "you know the songs and everything, just follow me" and right after they did this, Byrd wrote "Sex Machine" on the spot because he was taken by the Pacemakers' sound.

James received credit for the music but I always looked at it as a Bobby Byrd composition because Bobby was the kind of guy to do those type of numbers, James was always looking for something he couldn't find. That's why he hired Bobby back again. Without Bobby's help, James wouldn't have had went through that transition where his brand of funk got rawer. And even then, Bobby still didn't get paid by James like he should've. In 2003, he actually sued Brown and Universal because they hadn't paid him the royalties he was supposed to have earned from the Eric B. and Rakim samples of "I Know You Got Soul". James claimed he wasn't getting paid either and said Universal ripped them off but back when they were Famous Flames, Bobby Bennett said James wanted all the money so who was lying?

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

ahh hell, put up the real deal

"Asacatamolumentomuche... no... Danke Schoen! I'm not concerned 'cause there's nothin' wrong... "

Man I loved this video, I seen it on youtube an people was really disrespectin James, saying he was "high" or whatever, but James knew how to play it, they had him on for an interview but wanted to talk scandal, he was way smarter than that he turned it into a commercial, hes working that kinda exposure lets talk about some music.

James Brown, didnt "play the game with ya", Im sure like his lyrics defined he was saying it and doing it, bossin' cats, firing cats, shittin on dreams, and stealing women, how else you become the G.O.D Father Pt III (Mobb Deep), of soul, ha. Nah, but on the for real James was tough you know he took Joe Tex's wife, then fired her, Joe wote "You Keep Her", and James caught him at a club and pulled out a Pistol on him, so yeah James wasnt no chump, and though alot of my heros got they feelins hurt dealin with James, I still love and honor dude and his music. Because with James, You know what it is...You cant beat that.

^ Nah James took out a gun - and popped it - because Joe was making fun of his "Please, Please, Please" act. You know, when he drops to the front of the stage on his knees and a cape is dropped on him and he's helped up by his emcee (or a fellow Famous Flame)? Well Joe did this while he and James covered the same stage and James was pissed so later he found Joe at a nightclub after the show and shot at his entourage. Joe and the guys bolted before anyone got seriously hurt. He wrote "You Can Keep Her" AFTER the incident. James and Bea Ford was already fucking by then anyway.

Wilson Pickett and Solomon Burke recalled their own incidents with Brown, at one time Pickett and Brown both brandished guns in front of each other, I think, because James was trying to mess with Wilson's woman. Wilson wasn't taking that so he took his gun out. Eventually James left it alone and left. Solomon Burke was told to give up his robe and cape to James because James felt Solomon was "copying him" and felt HE was the king of soul. This was after "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" came out. Solomon only agreed to show up to collect a $10,000 check from James who told him to not perform but "just watch the real king". Solomon accepted the money but not the title and his wardrobe, which led to James offering more money to give it up for good, Solomon said "no" and James ended up calling himself "Soul Brother No. 1" forcing deejays to name him such and they did because of fear, which was always a good tactic for James.

He got the name "Godfather of Soul" because he was making film soundtracks around this time and in one of the photos from a shoot in 1973, people assumed he "looked like the Godfather, man." Always looking for a new name - he had like 20 other nicknames I think - he called himself "The Godfather of Soul" and some radio deejay in New York introduced one of his records as such, afterwards, as he had done with "Mr. Dynamite", "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business" (which was originally one of Little Richard's titles) and "Soul Brother No. 1", he wouldn't go onstage unless he was announced as the "Godfather of Soul".

He had another name around 1974 that didn't stick very long: "Minister of the New Super Heavy Funk" and I think it had more names but...yeah.

Again, dude was a bully. But he was a pimp also.

It took many years before people realized the other people who helped James: not only his 1960s James Brown Band members and the 1970s J.B.'s (including Bootsy and Catfish) but also the Famous Flames themselves. It took his death and a few others to finally correct some wrongs. I don't even think James' full story has been ever told because we're always left with how wonderful he was as a stage performer (criticism of his vocal style has been varied though) and (ruthless) businessman (much in the way Ike Turner and Ray Charles was, like said, he got what he wanted).

Timmy84 said:

Bootsy Collins mentioned in "Unsung" about how Bobby Byrd had to find him and the Pacemakers to replace the James Brown Band after they all left him before a concert in 1970. It's interesting to note that James didn't fire people in his band, they just up and left him because they didn't like his level of control and they felt a lot of money was not being paid to them. I'm guessing he treated the Famous Flames and the JB Band as servants than partners, even Byrd got the slack. Anyway, when the JB Band left him, James panicked because he had a concert date the day they left him so Bobby had known of the Pacemakers since they were always helping in the studio as pupils of Byrd and Brown. Byrd called them and said "James needs you right now for a gig". Bootsy said there was no rehearsal or nothing, when Byrd got the group to Brown, Brown got nonchalant all of a sudden saying "you know the songs and everything, just follow me" and right after they did this, Byrd wrote "Sex Machine" on the spot because he was taken by the Pacemakers' sound.

James received credit for the music but I always looked at it as a Bobby Byrd composition because Bobby was the kind of guy to do those type of numbers, James was always looking for something he couldn't find. That's why he hired Bobby back again. Without Bobby's help, James wouldn't have had went through that transition where his brand of funk got rawer. And even then, Bobby still didn't get paid by James like he should've. In 2003, he actually sued Brown and Universal because they hadn't paid him the royalties he was supposed to have earned from the Eric B. and Rakim samples of "I Know You Got Soul". James claimed he wasn't getting paid either and said Universal ripped them off but back when they were Famous Flames, Bobby Bennett said James wanted all the money so who was lying?

Lawd, I got to show my husband the Bootsy "Unsung" you just mentioned, I hadn't watched it---but I think you can still find it on youtube. I think he may have been playing for Mr. Byrd right around the time that you say he sued James brown and Universal. Lawd, these background stories!

Ottensen said:

Timmy84 said:

Bootsy Collins mentioned in "Unsung" about how Bobby Byrd had to find him and the Pacemakers to replace the James Brown Band after they all left him before a concert in 1970. It's interesting to note that James didn't fire people in his band, they just up and left him because they didn't like his level of control and they felt a lot of money was not being paid to them. I'm guessing he treated the Famous Flames and the JB Band as servants than partners, even Byrd got the slack. Anyway, when the JB Band left him, James panicked because he had a concert date the day they left him so Bobby had known of the Pacemakers since they were always helping in the studio as pupils of Byrd and Brown. Byrd called them and said "James needs you right now for a gig". Bootsy said there was no rehearsal or nothing, when Byrd got the group to Brown, Brown got nonchalant all of a sudden saying "you know the songs and everything, just follow me" and right after they did this, Byrd wrote "Sex Machine" on the spot because he was taken by the Pacemakers' sound.

James received credit for the music but I always looked at it as a Bobby Byrd composition because Bobby was the kind of guy to do those type of numbers, James was always looking for something he couldn't find. That's why he hired Bobby back again. Without Bobby's help, James wouldn't have had went through that transition where his brand of funk got rawer. And even then, Bobby still didn't get paid by James like he should've. In 2003, he actually sued Brown and Universal because they hadn't paid him the royalties he was supposed to have earned from the Eric B. and Rakim samples of "I Know You Got Soul". James claimed he wasn't getting paid either and said Universal ripped them off but back when they were Famous Flames, Bobby Bennett said James wanted all the money so who was lying?

Lawd, I got to show my husband the Bootsy "Unsung" you just mentioned, I hadn't watched it---but I think you can still find it on youtube. I think he may have been playing for Mr. Byrd right around the time that you say he sued James brown and Universal. Lawd, these background stories!

Yeah it's still there last I checked. But yeah... funny thing about this is in so many James Brown biographies before he died, they kept calling Bootsy's old group "The Pacesetters" than the "Pacemakers". When I read up on it, I was stunned that they went by a different name! Why did people settle on "Pacesetters"? Did James write that name in the book? If so his memory was going by the time he did that book (pre-prison time)!

Lord, I forgot to mention:

I watched James' A&E biography this morning before I took a nap. It had been years since I watched it (and I wonder if A&E will air a newer James Brown biography one day if they haven't already, they probably did and I just missed it) but man... his biography was like an elementary school version of his life.

And of course, they went over the journey of the Flames. Not even discussing what led to them being "The Famous Flames" and except for Bobby Byrd, didn't mention the others. In fact, the narrator described the Flames after James Brown joined as a band that were at all instrumentalists, singers and dancers... uh no, they were singers and dancers, not instrumentalists.

Didn't even mention James playing drums in the beginning though clearly they showed a photo of him doing so. I also felt the tension shared by his family and friends and even Bootsy when they talked about him. James must've had some kind of trance on them because they began to explain how he really was when he left. The only thing they'd talked that shows how much of a taskmaster he was when he did his routines only to bring out fines (in that case, he was splaying his hands 50 times during the T.A.M.I. Show ).

After his death, more stories started to come out about him. People excuse it as having a hard life and I'm not knocking James for that but c'mon let's lay out the facts, the guy clearly was a mental screw up even though his band was always tight and such, I don't even think I could've worked with the man for a week let alone 10 years! And Bootsy stayed for 11 months! The fuck?

Just found this picture at another board. I'm guessing this was early '60s. Anyway, here is James on the piano conducting the band. I can only imagine what he was telling them while this picture was taken. He always looked stern. Anyways, the Famous Flames are in the back of Brown (Lloyd Stallworth on the far left, Bobby Bennett in the middle and Bobby Byrd, who's slightly obscured from the saxophonist, whoever he is, I don't think it's Maceo).

I LOVE LOVE James Brown, one of my biggest inspirations but I know he was an asshole. He had many emotional problems that never got worked on and to me that's reflected on how he treated people. I also know about the famous flames because I studied him in depth, but also because Michael mentioned how much he loved that soul era of James & The Famous Flames. It's sad they arent known and credited for helping James Brown, because they were essential to his career.

GoldDolphin said:

I LOVE LOVE James Brown, one of my biggest inspirations but I know he was an asshole. He had many emotional problems that never got worked on and to me that's reflected on how he treated people. I also know about the famous flames because I studied him in depth, but also because Michael mentioned how much he loved that soul era of James & The Famous Flames. It's sad they arent known and credited for helping James Brown, because they were essential to his career.

Right. This don't take away my love of James Brown the entertainer but it further shows how much of an egocentric person he was. I know the times then made things hard but not so hard that you step over your own HOMEBOYS to get top billing. Especially the man who put him in the group just so he can stay out of trouble. This is a reason I posted this topic. I honestly do wanna discuss why the Flames were so obscured from history books. I don't think it was something that James naively left off. You ask any music lover who knows James Brown, they may tell you he was a solo artist when "Please, Please, Please" was released. And we know now that that's false.

areu saying that james brown as an artist and band leader was the only one in the music biz who has an ego? please tell me u dont believe this/

jackson35 said:

areu saying that james brown as an artist and band leader was the only one in the music biz who has an ego? please tell me u dont believe this/

No. I wasn't saying that at all. And I don't know how you drew to that conclusion.

This is FUNKY!

G3000 said:

This is FUNKY!

You can say that again!!! James was always a monster with those moves and the Famous Flames was FUCKING SMOOTH. James and the Famous Flames made the Tempts look like PANSIES in comparison. That stop motion that Michael and Prince (and virtually every dance/choreographed-oriented star) later picked on started right here. I think this was actually the greatest show they ever did, and especially the greatest show James Brown ever did. I don't think he ever topped it.

TD3 said:

The documentary: PBS, American Masters real explained Mr. Brown's mentality on how he acted and treated people. The subsequent success just exacerbated his tyrant tendencies.

Seemed to me he got worst as his success grew (and time went on). The first time I actually read into his tendencies was in the final article to cover him before his death ("Being James Brown" from Rolling Stone in, I believe, May or June 2006 in 2005) and even into his seventies, he was still a tyrant but even more incoherent. I gotta find that article.

EDIT: I found the article. I may post the link later.

[Edited 7/10/12 23:25pm]

No one ever makes it alone in life, especially in the music biz, and it is a shame when collaboration goes unacknowledged.

purplethunder3121 said:

No one ever makes it alone in life, especially in the music biz, and it is a shame when collaboration goes unacknowledged.

Tell me about it. I know James had determination and all but he probably had one of the biggest egos I ever read about a musician. I think James was bipolar though because he would be nice to you the next and if he felt you messed up will punish you like a prison warden would. In fact, reading that article, I'm reminded of the initial three years he spent in jail, I think he was abused there and this led to his behavior later on. Not only ego but real mentally fucked up. No wonder folks were scared of him. The bullied turned into a bully.

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

The documentary: PBS, American Masters real explained Mr. Brown's mentality on how he acted and treated people. The subsequent success just exacerbated his tyrant tendencies.

Seemed to me he got worst as his success grew (and time went on). The first time I actually read into his tendencies was in the final article to cover him before his death ("Being James Brown" from Rolling Stone in, I believe, May or June 2006 in 2005) and even into his seventies, he was still a tyrant but even more incoherent. I gotta find that article.

EDIT: I found the article. I may post the link later.

[Edited 7/10/12 23:25pm]

Mr brown did get worse as he got successful, the industry got worse and became more exploitative then ever.u actually believe that the majority of the people that work under brown were ambitious as he was? if it weren't for James brown, none of these people would be were they are. do u think bobby bryd could have stop black people from tearing up Boston after Dr king was killed. why do u think Mr brown was investing money in certain business like the radio station and his soul food restaurant, so he would have enough money to support his empire which included the band.

"Right on the one..."

----

You rarely see this type of footage. Apparently there's about one hour and fifteen minutes of this. Filmed in Augusta just right after he got out of prison.

I don't know if there was ever filming of the rehearsals he would give his band and the Famous Flames... somewhere in the Brown vaults or did he do a Stevie Wonder and burn those? This footage posted seems real fascinating into how he worked.

thoughts?

I never thought he was a "nice" guy

more like jealous, paranoid, bossy and violent (not violent like Ike), but certainly visceral/volatile

JoeTyler said:

thoughts?

I never thought he was a "nice" guy

more like jealous, paranoid, bossy and violent (not violent like Ike), but certainly visceral/volatile

Harlepolis used to post here about he and Marva Whitney had a real nasty fight, I forgot the actual details. And Lyn Collins once punched him in the face during their altercation. He was fucking them too. He also fucked his other female singers (from a 17-year-old Tammi Terrell all the way down to his last "wife", Tomi-Rae Hynie) even while married. He once hit Tammi in the head with an umbrella hanger. So he definitely was violent. I think his relationship with his male musicians was more mental, verbal and psychological though.