LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Seems like I left one man out of the "interim Flames": a fellow Dominion named Willie Johnson. He stayed with James for a while and sung on "Good Good Lovin'", "Think" and "Bewildered", wondered when HE left.

I also wonder why Lloyd wasn't there at the Olympia... he couldn't afford a visa/passport?

I see Lloyd in between the teo bobby's and I haven't heard of Willie Johnson. I do see him on the credits of my disc now that you mentionit, but it doesn't have him as a former member of the Dominions.

Hmm that is fishy. Smitty's post made it seem like he wasn't there - though I did see the video a few times and from what I saw, yeah Lloyd's there with the rest of them. I wonder where did Willie Johnson come from... damn James, he wrote a lot in his bios but he fails to mention this information?

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

I see Lloyd in between the teo bobby's and I haven't heard of Willie Johnson. I do see him on the credits of my disc now that you mentionit, but it doesn't have him as a former member of the Dominions.

Hmm that is fishy. Smitty's post made it seem like he wasn't there - though I did see the video a few times and from what I saw, yeah Lloyd's there with the rest of them. I wonder where did Willie Johnson come from... damn James, he wrote a lot in his bios but he fails to mention this information?

It seems Willie came in right between the firing of the Dominions members and the rehiring of Byrd along with Babby Lloyd and Bennett. Johnny Terry seems to have never left really.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm that is fishy. Smitty's post made it seem like he wasn't there - though I did see the video a few times and from what I saw, yeah Lloyd's there with the rest of them. I wonder where did Willie Johnson come from... damn James, he wrote a lot in his bios but he fails to mention this information?

It seems Willie came in right between the firing of the Dominions members and the rehiring of Byrd along with Babby Lloyd and Bennett. Johnny Terry seems to have never left really.

Yeah I noticed that. Look like Johnny was still with him until he died too? Yet there's no picture of him?

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

It seems Willie came in right between the firing of the Dominions members and the rehiring of Byrd along with Babby Lloyd and Bennett. Johnny Terry seems to have never left really.

Yeah I noticed that. Look like Johnny was still with him until he died too? Yet there's no picture of him?

He was on one of those posters as the duo Johnny & Bill. Johnny was like his manager or something to that extinct.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I noticed that. Look like Johnny was still with him until he died too? Yet there's no picture of him?

He was on one of those posters as the duo Johnny & Bill. Johnny was like his manager or something to that extinct.

Damn it was like that? He must've relied on Johnny (and Bobby Byrd) a WHOLE lot. Even Bobby still kept in contact somewhat when he initially left the Flames. James was one strange person.

Thanks for the reply it really put the story into perspective, I heard him and Tex was beefin for a while I know Joe Tex accused Jamse of stealing his dance moves, and I also knew that he did the whole cape mockery thing just didnt put it all into perspective. Wow. Thanks again, that was good stuff to know.

Timmy84 said:

^ Nah James took out a gun - and popped it - because Joe was making fun of his "Please, Please, Please" act. You know, when he drops to the front of the stage on his knees and a cape is dropped on him and he's helped up by his emcee (or a fellow Famous Flame)? Well Joe did this while he and James covered the same stage and James was pissed so later he found Joe at a nightclub after the show and shot at his entourage. Joe and the guys bolted before anyone got seriously hurt. He wrote "You Can Keep Her" AFTER the incident. James and Bea Ford was already fucking by then anyway.

Wilson Pickett and Solomon Burke recalled their own incidents with Brown, at one time Pickett and Brown both brandished guns in front of each other, I think, because James was trying to mess with Wilson's woman. Wilson wasn't taking that so he took his gun out. Eventually James left it alone and left. Solomon Burke was told to give up his robe and cape to James because James felt Solomon was "copying him" and felt HE was the king of soul. This was after "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" came out. Solomon only agreed to show up to collect a $10,000 check from James who told him to not perform but "just watch the real king". Solomon accepted the money but not the title and his wardrobe, which led to James offering more money to give it up for good, Solomon said "no" and James ended up calling himself "Soul Brother No. 1" forcing deejays to name him such and they did because of fear, which was always a good tactic for James.

He got the name "Godfather of Soul" because he was making film soundtracks around this time and in one of the photos from a shoot in 1973, people assumed he "looked like the Godfather, man." Always looking for a new name - he had like 20 other nicknames I think - he called himself "The Godfather of Soul" and some radio deejay in New York introduced one of his records as such, afterwards, as he had done with "Mr. Dynamite", "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business" (which was originally one of Little Richard's titles) and "Soul Brother No. 1", he wouldn't go onstage unless he was announced as the "Godfather of Soul".

He had another name around 1974 that didn't stick very long: "Minister of the New Super Heavy Funk" and I think it had more names but...yeah.

Again, dude was a bully. But he was a pimp also.

It took many years before people realized the other people who helped James: not only his 1960s James Brown Band members and the 1970s J.B.'s (including Bootsy and Catfish) but also the Famous Flames themselves. It took his death and a few others to finally correct some wrongs. I don't even think James' full story has been ever told because we're always left with how wonderful he was as a stage performer (criticism of his vocal style has been varied though) and (ruthless) businessman (much in the way Ike Turner and Ray Charles was, like said, he got what he wanted).

Wow I found something else interesting, read this article.

http://news.google.com/ne...93,2214825

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Wow I found something else interesting, read this article.

http://news.google.com/ne...93,2214825

I would've loved to seen that.

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Wow I found something else interesting, read this article.

http://news.google.com/ne...93,2214825

I would've loved to seen that.

Something else to piss of the Godfather. I can imagine the first time he see's this. He baskstage at the Howard and here's all this screaming and goes towards the stage.

JB: Whet the hell is all this screaming, is that my band on stage? Who's on stage?

**See's Joe Tex in a wig and dancing**

JB: Son on a bitch!!!

**Joe Tex winks at him out the corner of his eye**

**Baby Lloyd and Bobby Bennet backstage laughing**

JB: Alright now I'll hire some more replacement Flames motherfuckers!!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

I would've loved to seen that.

Something else to piss of the Godfather. I can imagine the first time he see's this. He baskstage at the Howard and here's all this screaming and goes towards the stage.

JB: Whet the hell is all this screaming, is that my band on stage? Who's on stage?

**See's Joe Tex in a wig and dancing**

JB: Son on a bitch!!!

**Joe Tex winks at him out the corner of his eye**

**Baby Lloyd and Bobby Bennet backstage laughing**

JB: Alright now I'll hire some more replacement Flames motherfuckers!!

Sylvester Keels (known as King Keels) put out a solo record on King in 1964, produced by Brown.

In March Joe brought his longstanding feud with James Brown to a head. At the Uptown Theatre in Philadelphia, and later on a radio show, he angrily claimed that Brown had paid disc jockeys not to play Skinny legs and all. Joe declared how hurt he was, strangely describing JB as “My friend for all these years - a guy I really admire.”

In an interview with the Chicago Defender Joe took the matter further. He declared “The title of Soul Brother No.1 rightfully belongs to a guy named Little Willie John…I really don’t know where James Brown gets the idea he is the king! Some of us have very short memories." Joe sent telegrams to eleven top radio stations challenging Brown for the title of ‘Soul brother No.1’. He stated “I’m not joking about this……this contest… should be recognised all over the United States. I want to win the crown so I can present it to Little Willie John when he comes home.” John, best known for 50’s hits Fever and All around the world was serving time for involuntary manslaughter in Washington State Prison.

Later in March James Brown rejected the idea of a contest, telling the Afro-American newspaper, “I will not fight a black man. You need too much help.” Nevertheless, Joe had his supporters. Back in his hometown the Baton Rouge Advocate announced that Joe had already won the title “King of soul music” after an onstage contest with James in Atlanta, Georgia. Joe received more backing in Greenville, South Carolina. The Black Awareness Co-ordinating Committee honoured Joe for his outstanding contribution to black music and referred to him as the ‘new Soul Brother No.1’.

HuMpThAnG said:

LMAO! I love this clip.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

In March Joe brought his longstanding feud with James Brown to a head. At the Uptown Theatre in Philadelphia, and later on a radio show, he angrily claimed that Brown had paid disc jockeys not to play Skinny legs and all. Joe declared how hurt he was, strangely describing JB as “My friend for all these years - a guy I really admire.”

In an interview with the Chicago Defender Joe took the matter further. He declared “The title of Soul Brother No.1 rightfully belongs to a guy named Little Willie John…I really don’t know where James Brown gets the idea he is the king! Some of us have very short memories." Joe sent telegrams to eleven top radio stations challenging Brown for the title of ‘Soul brother No.1’. He stated “I’m not joking about this……this contest… should be recognised all over the United States. I want to win the crown so I can present it to Little Willie John when he comes home.” John, best known for 50’s hits Fever and All around the world was serving time for involuntary manslaughter in Washington State Prison.

Later in March James Brown rejected the idea of a contest, telling the Afro-American newspaper, “I will not fight a black man. You need too much help.” Nevertheless, Joe had his supporters. Back in his hometown the Baton Rouge Advocate announced that Joe had already won the title “King of soul music” after an onstage contest with James in Atlanta, Georgia. Joe received more backing in Greenville, South Carolina. The Black Awareness Co-ordinating Committee honoured Joe for his outstanding contribution to black music and referred to him as the ‘new Soul Brother No.1’.

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

In an interview to promote his appearance on the Johnny Cash Show, Joe expounded his views on soul and not surprisingly got in another dig at his arch enemy. He declared “You don’t have to be a singer or a musician to have soul. Soul…is performing with pride in your performance. A housewife who keeps a neat home and cooks a delectable meal has soul…Why, even some politicians have soul. Ray Charles has soul. James Brown – and you can quote me on this – doesn’t. James Brown is called the King of Soul but he is all visual. Another thing – soul isn’t confined to one race, color or creed.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

In an interview to promote his appearance on the Johnny Cash Show, Joe expounded his views on soul and not surprisingly got in another dig at his arch enemy. He declared “You don’t have to be a singer or a musician to have soul. Soul…is performing with pride in your performance. A housewife who keeps a neat home and cooks a delectable meal has soul…Why, even some politicians have soul. Ray Charles has soul. James Brown – and you can quote me on this – doesn’t. James Brown is called the King of Soul but he is all visual. Another thing – soul isn’t confined to one race, color or creed.

Damn...

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Damn...

Damn indeed

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

http://soultex.webs.com/

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

http://soultex.webs.com/

Thanks!

Hmm, so it seems James did have something of a singing career in different groups before joining the Avons/Flames/Famous Flames.

His first group was called the Carmelo Trio. On his A&E biography from '95 (I think), it mentinoed that he had won a talent contest when he was either 10, 11 or 12, but apparently his career with the Carmelo Trio started at 12. And it went on until he got busted from stealing clothes out of cars and he seemingly was ALWAYS on the run from cops in Augusta's "Terry" neighborhood in Twiggs Street.

He got the name "Music Box" in prison because he made some kind of instrument out of some lard box or something and bang on it while singing.

And when he got released from prison, after pursuing careers in baseball and boxing (there's a good picture of a young James boxing that I saw on his tribute article on JET following his death that I gotta find again), he joined the Ever Ready Gospel Singers (I'm guessing because he was "ever ready to make it" ). When he couldn't get a deal with that group, he left them and joined the Avons from Bobby Byrd's request.

The first song he ever recorded was not "Please, Please, Please" either but a cover of "His Eye Is on the Sparrow" with the Ever Ready Gospel Singers. Shocking that an artist whose legend was larger than life is not fully documented from his early years.

Interesting that both Little Richard and James Brown started their careers both at age of 12.

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, so it seems James did have something of a singing career in different groups before joining the Avons/Flames/Famous Flames.

His first group was called the Carmelo Trio. On his A&E biography from '95 (I think), it mentinoed that he had won a talent contest when he was either 10, 11 or 12, but apparently his career with the Carmelo Trio started at 12. And it went on until he got busted from stealing clothes out of cars and he seemingly was ALWAYS on the run from cops in Augusta's "Terry" neighborhood in Twiggs Street.

He got the name "Music Box" in prison because he made some kind of instrument out of some lard box or something and bang on it while singing.

And when he got released from prison, after pursuing careers in baseball and boxing (there's a good picture of a young James boxing that I saw on his tribute article on JET following his death that I gotta find again), he joined the Ever Ready Gospel Singers (I'm guessing because he was "ever ready to make it" ). When he couldn't get a deal with that group, he left them and joined the Avons from Bobby Byrd's request.

The first song he ever recorded was not "Please, Please, Please" either but a cover of "His Eye Is on the Sparrow" with the Ever Ready Gospel Singers. Shocking that an artist whose legend was larger than life is not fully documented from his early years.

Interesting that both Little Richard and James Brown started their careers both at age of 12.

HE recorded 2 other songs prior to Please also. I had them documented but gotta find again. It's on my old computer.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Hmm, so it seems James did have something of a singing career in different groups before joining the Avons/Flames/Famous Flames.

His first group was called the Carmelo Trio. On his A&E biography from '95 (I think), it mentinoed that he had won a talent contest when he was either 10, 11 or 12, but apparently his career with the Carmelo Trio started at 12. And it went on until he got busted from stealing clothes out of cars and he seemingly was ALWAYS on the run from cops in Augusta's "Terry" neighborhood in Twiggs Street.

He got the name "Music Box" in prison because he made some kind of instrument out of some lard box or something and bang on it while singing.

And when he got released from prison, after pursuing careers in baseball and boxing (there's a good picture of a young James boxing that I saw on his tribute article on JET following his death that I gotta find again), he joined the Ever Ready Gospel Singers (I'm guessing because he was "ever ready to make it" ). When he couldn't get a deal with that group, he left them and joined the Avons from Bobby Byrd's request.

The first song he ever recorded was not "Please, Please, Please" either but a cover of "His Eye Is on the Sparrow" with the Ever Ready Gospel Singers. Shocking that an artist whose legend was larger than life is not fully documented from his early years.

Interesting that both Little Richard and James Brown started their careers both at age of 12.

HE recorded 2 other songs prior to Please also. I had them documented but gotta find again. It's on my old computer.

Yeah I think one of the songs was "Goin' Back to Rome" or something... I read it today lol

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

HE recorded 2 other songs prior to Please also. I had them documented but gotta find again. It's on my old computer.

Yeah I think one of the songs was "Goin' Back to Rome" or something... I read it today lol

That's it!

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah I think one of the songs was "Goin' Back to Rome" or something... I read it today lol

That's it!

Yeah, some of the early Famous Flames song titles were very interesting... Chonnie-On-Chon? The HAIL!?

The hardest working man in show biz making sure no one else was slacking off and making sure his work paid off. Its how it is, its how its supposed to be.

ManlyMoose said:

The hardest working man in show biz making sure no one else was slacking off and making sure his work paid off. Its how it is, its how its supposed to be.

Except when it came to paying folks them 7 figures.

I heard James Brown used to beat Tammi Terrell. Control freak to the fullest. And used to dock pay from his bandmembers paychecks when they arrived late for reheasal.

[Edited 7/19/12 23:20pm]

Girl4both said:

I heard James Brown used to beat Tammi Terrell. Control freak to the fullest. And used to dock pay from his bandmembers paychecks when they arrived late for reheasal.

[Edited 7/19/12 23:20pm]

Well that's what his routine consisted of: if you wasn't looking at him, you get a fine, if he saw your suit was out of place or your shoes was dirty or your hair wasn't combed right, you get a fine, if you didn't hear his cue on time, a fine. That's why whenever he shuffled his feet and did his moves, you could see him splaying his fingers so much people thought it was part of the act but that was James' method of telling you "you have to pay up" and he always had someone besides the stage writing down how much the musician or singer had to pay him for fucking up. And yeah, Ludie Montgomery and Gene Chandler both talked about James whupping the mess out of Tammi...

Timmy84 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

Is this the "King of Soul" crown that Solomon Burke has and James took from him?

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Timmy84 said:

LBC, you need to post the link to where I can read about this feud. Wow, he thought Little Willie John should be "Soul Brother #1". WOW! This shit is getting GOOD!

Is this the "King of Soul" crown that Solomon Burke has and James took from him?

I don't think so. James tried to take it from him but according to an article who posted about that event in Chi-Town, Solomon never fully gave up anything to James. I heard that's the reason he settled on "Soul Brother No. 1".