please explain to me all the reasons why the current state of the recording industry is not good enough to be recording in, and also please tell me the solutions to those problems

or else please direct me to a place where this has all been explained many times before?

many thanks!

Recording industry used to make money selling albums. Instead, people steal music. So they can't afford to invest in unsure things. So, they invest in cheap, lowest common denominator "music." I'm not certain that a young Prince would make it pass album 2 before being cut from a label.

I know a little about it-seeing how my brother is in the business as a musician. But his band just wants the music out there and know that people steal the music. The money is in the touring and merchandise, and commercials.

The thing that gets me mad about the stealing of music is that the person(s) (who only write music & not perform it) lose the most-because they get mainly paid by the units sold.

if they could fix it wouldn't they?

Kewlschool makes a very good point; several, in fact.

Another problem I see with the recording industry is the level of musical knowledge among our youth. Look at what each year's new crop of teens and young adults created from the 50's through the 80's. It's plain to see that everyone grew up on good, sophisticated songs and learned how to play them. Then they built from that.

But along came rap and Kurt Cobain. Suddenly, you didn't need to know a single thing about song construction. Heck, if you were a rapper, you didn't even need to know a single scale.

Unfortunately, grunge and rap hit big, and stayed big for years. So, a whole set of youngsters - today known as "Generation X" - grew up listening to incredibly simple music. It's no coincidence that a sophisticated musician like Prince could barely get on the radio in the '90's.

Nowadays, there is a little hope but it's all in country music. If you want to hear good melodies and rocking guitars, the only place for you is country music.

Rock is dead, and rap was...well, you can figure it out.

I'm not sure grunge music was actually all that simple. Those hit Nirvana songs were killer melodies and pop structured gems, and those guys were musicians.

If you interpreted and played some of those songs on piano it would become clear. Or better yet translate them to Beethoven like orchestral arrangement.

RodeoSchro said:

Kewlschool makes a very good point; several, in fact.

Another problem I see with the recording industry is the level of musical knowledge among our youth. Look at what each year's new crop of teens and young adults created from the 50's through the 80's. It's plain to see that everyone grew up on good, sophisticated songs and learned how to play them. Then they built from that.

But along came rap and Kurt Cobain. Suddenly, you didn't need to know a single thing about song construction. Heck, if you were a rapper, you didn't even need to know a single scale.

Unfortunately, grunge and rap hit big, and stayed big for years. So, a whole set of youngsters - today known as "Generation X" - grew up listening to incredibly simple music. It's no coincidence that a sophisticated musician like Prince could barely get on the radio in the '90's.

Nowadays, there is a little hope but it's all in country music. If you want to hear good melodies and rocking guitars, the only place for you is country music.

Rock is dead, and rap was...well, you can figure it out.

I agree with most of this. But rappers have a whole different skill from musicians to learn, they don't create songs in the conventional sense, its pretty much an entirely different artform. Also, Prince didnt get much airplay in the 90's because even though hes a sophisticated musician he pushed out some very mediocre songs.

ufoclub said:

I'm not sure grunge music was actually all that simple. Those hit Nirvana songs were killer melodies and pop structured gems, and those guys were musicians.

If you interpreted and played some of those songs on piano it would become clear. Or better yet translate them to Beethoven like orchestral arrangement.

Grunge got old fast

I think people will always want to own music, honestly, and that they will pay for music if it is good.

People still buy digatal music even though it can be so easily shared. Apple's iTunes music store, for example is the second largest music retailer in the USA, only behind the behemoth Walmart. Hell, even movies are easily shared these days, and Apple commands 88% (by far the largest in the industry) of movie sales.

Apple's trick though is that it's revenues from the products, though substantial, aren't really significant to the companies overall revenue stream. It's selling media to promote it's hardware, where it makes its real money.

Likewise, groups today who sell music often do so to promote their live tours. It used to be that bands toured to promote albums, but the opposite is becoming increasingly true--albums are being sold to promote tours. Radiohead has employed this business model.

I think to a lesser extent, Prince has been doing this at least since Musicology.

I think the music "industry" is waning a bit, but I think that music artist, who really know their craft, have ore venues and opportunities, but they also need to be their own salesmen to an extent.

What I really think is sick and dying is radio. Jesus fucking christ, can we please kill ClearChannel, and bring the power of playlists back to the local DJs services cities? Today a DJ will spin hits that span several states, let alone a single city--and that DJ is only playing what he is allowed to play.

There are exceptions, but they are rare.

Tuning into one channel in California, would render me the same results as tuning into a channel in Florida---and that's boring as shit.

imago said:

Likewise, groups today who sell music often do so to promote their live tours. It used to be that bands toured to promote albums, but the opposite is becoming increasingly true--albums are being sold to promote tours. Radiohead has employed this business model.

...

Tuning into one channel in California, would render me the same results as tuning into a channel in Florida---and that's boring as shit.

i guess the trend toward promoting tours is positive since it emphasizes live talent and performing?

what about a recording medium that isn't easily copied -- would people buy that?

yeah the corporate radio i overhear at work is kind of depressing, like a baby monitor broadcasting from somewhere in hell. but i do hear some hopeful things on college radio, like 10% funky instead of 1%.

IMO there are two big issues

1. people are stealing music. There are kids who have never bought ANY music, and they don't think they should (because rock stars are rich--backward logic). For some reason DVD's at least implement a base level of copy protection, and it seems to work to discourage some people, but for cd's it's a free for all. Not to mention, DVD's have come down in price, but a new cd is still like $16.99 unless you shop around.

2. Record companies are going for instant gratification rather than cultivating the careers of artists. Today's music is like crack instead of nourishment. So while our pupils are dilated, there are not really any great musicians making the music the music that they want to make. They are pandering to some expectation. There ARE good musicians making top 40 music, but they are in Justin Bieber and Rhianna's bands, not leading their own.

**honorable mention

At the club level, where musicians mature, club/bar owners & people throwing parties/weddings are opting for dj's instead of live music. They are cheaper and know all your favorite songs.

As a result, bands get paid nothing, so what idiot wants to go play for 4 hours to split $50 between 4 band members? Everyone's better off if you pay a dj $50; it draws more people anyway.

But it's missing the personality same as a mom and pop restaurant might not be as good as Chili's but it might be better! You just have to take a chance and find out.

And why am I on the poo poo list?!

bobbyperu said:

^Or world music. I often feel this is the exact reason why pop mysic is just going around in circles. And if you want to hear something truly original you have to go beyond the Anglo-American world. Check out Manu Chao! But if you have some good country musicians worth listening to, tell me! I'm a huge Dylan fan, so I'd probably be up for it.

Yea, I listen to a lot of arabic music and it is incredible. The melodies, the instruments, the voices are all very unique. You won't find that kind of sound anywhere else in this world. It is the only music that can automatically put me in an incredibly happy place. It is beautiful music.

PURplEMaPLeSyrup said:

please explain to me all the reasons why the current state of the recording industry is not good enough to be recording in, and also please tell me the solutions to those problems

or else please direct me to a place where this has all been explained many times before?

many thanks!

you have to do a school paper right?

kewlschool said:

Recording industry used to make money selling albums. Instead, people steal music. So they can't afford to invest in unsure things. So, they invest in cheap, lowest common denominator "music." I'm not certain that a young Prince would make it pass album 2 before being cut from a label.

This is a much too simplistic and one - sided explanation.

Whats wrong with the recording industry:

1. the dinosaur business model the music industry still uses
2. the internalized greed and competition of egos within the music industry
3. the consolidation of music companies into only a few multinational conglomerations who do not care about music
4. the emphasis on 'shareholders value' and control by ceo's who know little to nothing of music
5. the over promotion of throw-away junk music and the abuse of untalented hacks to score quickly, instead of investing in true talent (as a result of 1 - 4)
6. the cartel created consistent over pricing of CD's
7. the complete lack of a sensible response to the threats and opportunities of the internet
8. the utter failure to take advantage of the legal download and online retail market, like Apple and Amazon have done
9. the pointless copy protection measures and the endless lobbying and litigation over 'stealing' music
10. the many internal conflicts with songwriters and recording artists over copyrights, royalties and other issues, which will come to a boiling point in 2013

to begin with

Use some common sense and the solutions are clear:

1. adapt the business model to the 21st century
2. focus on music, not profit and kick out the trouble making egos
3. de-consolidate back into companies run by people who actually care about it and its artists
4. emphasise on 'customer value' instead of 'share holders value' and let the people who actually know something about music make the important decisions
5. stop making and promoting junk music, abusing all those poor wanna bees, and start nurturing and investing again in true talent
6. stop overpricing your products and dismantle your cartel based operations
7. stop fearing the threats of the internet and start taking a sensible approach to the opportunities it offers
8. take advantage of the possibilities in the legal download market and online retail store business
9. stop trying to think you can prevent people from copying, with technology, lobbying or litigation, but reserve that sort of action for your true enemies, not your customers
10. start respecting your song writers and artists a little more and give them what they are entitled to

Tremolina said:

Use some common sense and the solutions are clear:

1. adapt the business model to the 21st century
2. focus on music, not profit and kick out the trouble making egos
3. de-consolidate back into companies run by people who actually care about it and its artists
4. emphasise on 'customer value' instead of 'share holders value' and let the people who actually know something about music make the important decisions
5. stop making and promoting junk music, abusing all those poor wanna bees, and start nurturing and investing again in true talent
6. stop overpricing your products and dismantle your cartel based operations
7. stop fearing the threats of the internet and start taking a sensible approach to the opportunities it offers
8. take advantage of the possibilities in the legal download market and online retail store business
9. stop trying to think you can prevent people from copying, with technology, lobbying or litigation, but reserve that sort of action for your true enemies, not your customers
10. start respecting your song writers and artists a little more and give them what they are entitled to

thanks -- school paper done! -- just kidding, i've just been wondering and wanted to know what others smarter than me would have to say

There have been some very wise things said on this thread by peeps like kewlschool, RodeoSchro, imago, NDRU and Tremolina. I would like to address all of them, but I'll sum it up in one post.

1. Yes, people steal music. It used to make a teen proud to be the first one to get up and get the hard copy album from the local record store. It may not be the "modern" way anymore, but it surely added to the positive experience of the music.

2. Nowadays, music has (therefore) become an easily disposable product - you download everything your friends tell you to download (without actually paying for it, of course) listen to the first 10 seconds of three songs (if you actually got the whole album, which is a rarity also!) and then decide what to keep. You delete the rest.

3. Back then, when you liked the single, you'd buy the single. When you wanted to hear more, you'd buy the album. If the same concept were applied back then (listening to 10 seconds of two songs only) every interesting album would have been thrown away, because usually, musically good and interesting songs tend to grow on you.

4. Major labels have absolutely no money and can't afford to push a talented newcomer. They invest in what the masses will like surely and are out for the quick cash. If you're not signed to a major, it's possible, but still very, very difficult to get the masses to even notice you. It costs a couple of thousand Euros to buy a single chart place (yes, nowadays you [your record company] usually buy them), it costs about 10,000€ to promote your shit properly and then you have to start touring and hoping that someone noticed and liked your shit (you pay and organise the tour yourself, of course).

5. It all comes down to education. Musical education is on an extreme low nowadays. People can't cap on the 2 and the 4 and certainly have no idea how to play any instruments, what the word "chord" means and what a melody is. Good music will hardly be recognised by this generation.

In my opinion, masses should be educated radically. I dream of a movement that shows people the art and craft of making real music and makes them love and pay for it again. Music is a gift and should be honoured as such.

The masses have been dumbed down in MANY areas....music is just one of them.

U guys have made some valid points but in my mind the biggest issue is the lame producers and talentless artist being pushed these days. Get some real artist with actual producers making better quality music and folks will BUY it at a much higher rate that u see now.

See Adele as an example.

Graycap23 said:

The masses have been dumbed down in MANY areas....music is just one of them.

U guys have made some valid points but in my mind the biggest issue is the lame producers and talentless artist being pushed these days. Get some real artist with actual producers making better quality music and folks will BUY it at a much higher rate that u see now.

See Adele as an example.

Adele is of course higher quality than the rest you see on the charts now, but still, if you break it down, her concept is very much directed at the masses. A kind of chubby, strong-minded woman singing heartfelt lyrics (the songs are nice, but musically not anything we haven't heard already).

Yes, I'd rather have 10 Adeles than 10 Rihannas, but still, she's not good enough to educate the masses.

sorry just a random side thought but what about pairing songs with art or some sort of collectible official sign of authenticity that isnt so easy and cheap to copy as a digital song? -- i guess that would detract from the main point being musicianship quality?

Dave1992 said:

Graycap23 said:

The masses have been dumbed down in MANY areas....music is just one of them.

U guys have made some valid points but in my mind the biggest issue is the lame producers and talentless artist being pushed these days. Get some real artist with actual producers making better quality music and folks will BUY it at a much higher rate that u see now.

See Adele as an example.

Adele is of course higher quality than the rest you see on the charts now, but still, if you break it down, her concept is very much directed at the masses. A kind of chubby, strong-minded woman singing heartfelt lyrics (the songs are nice, but musically not anything we haven't heard already).

Yes, I'd rather have 10 Adeles than 10 Rihannas, but still, she's not good enough to educate the masses.

I hear u. I'm not an Adele fan....just using her as an example that folks will still purchase music that they like.

Adult contemporary, shit hop, and neo stool killed it. There's no changing it back since those things have dominated since the 1990s and a new generation has been raised their entire lives on nothing but those styles with no style changes inbetween like we used to have. Since there has been no style change for their entire life, most of them will not welcome a style change like we used to so the bullshit will continue until music just dies altogether.

The thing to do is just sit back, relax, and let them download as much free music as they want until they bankrupt the labels. It's a fitting death that the labels deserve since they killed music by only signing acts that can save them money by using computers as instruments instead of the real thing such as real drums and bass. Labels killed music with computers and I'm very happy to see computers killing the labels. Download on people, download on!

vainandy said:

Adult contemporary, shit hop, and neo stool killed it. There's no changing it back since those things have dominated since the 1990s and a new generation has been raised their entire lives on nothing but those styles with no style changes inbetween like we used to have. Since there has been no style change for their entire life, most of them will not welcome a style change like we used to so the bullshit will continue until music just dies altogether.

The thing to do is just sit back, relax, and let them download as much free music as they want until they bankrupt the labels. It's a fitting death that the labels deserve since they killed music by only signing acts that can save them money by using computers as instruments instead of the real thing such as real drums and bass. Labels killed music with computers and I'm very happy to see computers killing the labels. Download on people, download on!

And while you download your music for free and kill the labels, you can spend the saved money on my album (I'm not signed to a label yet, don't worry!) that will hopefully be available next year!!

(I use real bass and mostly real drums and do not care about genre categorisation in my music)

Dave1992 said:

vainandy said:

Adult contemporary, shit hop, and neo stool killed it. There's no changing it back since those things have dominated since the 1990s and a new generation has been raised their entire lives on nothing but those styles with no style changes inbetween like we used to have. Since there has been no style change for their entire life, most of them will not welcome a style change like we used to so the bullshit will continue until music just dies altogether.

The thing to do is just sit back, relax, and let them download as much free music as they want until they bankrupt the labels. It's a fitting death that the labels deserve since they killed music by only signing acts that can save them money by using computers as instruments instead of the real thing such as real drums and bass. Labels killed music with computers and I'm very happy to see computers killing the labels. Download on people, download on!

And while you download your music for free and kill the labels, you can spend the saved money on my album (I'm not signed to a label yet, don't worry!) that will hopefully be available next year!!

(I use real bass and mostly real drums and do not care about genre categorisation in my music)

here's another thing killing the labels: distribution.

pre-digital era you had to go through the major labels to get your music copied and distributed. now you don't have to.... you can more or less "cut out the middle man" by selling direct or get a bigger cut of the profit via itunes, amazon, zune marketplace or w/e is out there.

people dont buy records. record labels have lost all their cash on developing their artists with vocal training, fantastic songwriters...then they have to stay on the road 9 months out of the year to make the bread...the artists have less time and energy to devote to the craft of actually making. a fucking. good. album.

oh and madonna fucked the record industry royally when she went back on the road. and the eagles too. once they were making that kind of money in 94 / 2001, the whole cat was out of the bag that the best way for an artist his manager and his or her agent and their people to get paid. i also blame jack johnson and his fans.

[Edited 11/6/11 19:14pm]

Graycap23 said:

Dave1992 said:

Adele is of course higher quality than the rest you see on the charts now, but still, if you break it down, her concept is very much directed at the masses. A kind of chubby, strong-minded woman singing heartfelt lyrics (the songs are nice, but musically not anything we haven't heard already).

Yes, I'd rather have 10 Adeles than 10 Rihannas, but still, she's not good enough to educate the masses.

I hear u. I'm not an Adele fan....just using her as an example that folks will still purchase music that they like.

Exectly, she is perceived as something worth buying, and people are doing just that

The record companies never developed anyone talent wise, the communites these artist lived in did mostly if not all of that... the church, the talent shows, the music/club scene.The fact that those institutions have vanished is partly is the reason why music sucks.

All they record labels have ever done really is PR and payola....

I think Tremolina and Graycap have hit hammer on nail on whats wrong with record industry. Just think in less than a decade most of use own devices the size of a wallet, that allows use to access music, movies, books, video games, TV, and/or your cable subscription package, anywhere at anytime and that's just for starters. Music isn't the only game in town folks and the record industry now is going to have to figure how they're going to compete for the consumer dollar.... in a way they've never had to before.