TD3 said:

The record companies never developed anyone talent wise, the communites these artist lived in did mostly if not all of that... the church, the talent shows, the music/club scene.The fact that those institutions have vanished is partly is the reason why music sucks.

All they record labels have ever done really is PR and payola....

I think Tremolina and Graycap have hit hammer on nail on whats wrong with record industry. Just think in less than a decade most of use own devices the size of a wallet, that allows use to access music, movies, books, video games, TV, and/or your cable subscription package, anywhere at anytime and that's just for starters. Music isn't the only game in town folks and the record industry now is going to have to figure how they're going to compete for the consumer dollar.... in a way they've never had to before.

It trips me out how people think that smaller is better. I remember in the 1990s when boom boxes became about the third of the size of the huge ones from the early 1980s. The commercials used to brag on how small they were. Well hell, they were smaller but they didn't thump worth a damn. Those huge boom boxes would shake the walls. I see it this way, if a musical device doesn't thump hard enough for the neighbors to call the police on you, then it ain't worth a damn.

I love that you called it "neo stool".

Dogsinthetrees said:

I love that you called it "neo stool".

Easy

the worst decade ever (in terms of fashion/culture) obviously HAD to produce the worst popular music, ever

and I guess the good (and now old) A&R guys just retired in the early 00s or something...

half of the 00s crap music wouldn't have been released if the A&R guys of the 70s and 80s were still around...

Its nice to see that a lot of what I have said over the years on here is being echoed in this thread. People are finally coming around to understanding just what has been happening to music (not just on here, but the masses in general).

Great explanations all around and they are pretty much all true, btw.

I'd just like to add that originally, records were used as a promotional tool for artists. The music industry revolved around artists. The more business-like it became, the more it became revolved around RECORDS. Record sales became more important than artist development. As a result, we have a lot of interchangeable artists seeking to be successful. Now that the current record-based business model has died off, labels are losing power and it is shifting. The problem is that its not really shifting to the artists. The problem isn't really that people aren't paying for music. The public was formatted into thinking that was what we were supposed to do in the first place. The INDUSTRY created the business model wherein artists are paid the way they are paid. They created it so that they could get a large chunk of the money. Well, now there is no physical thing to pay for, so naturally, people aren't paying for it. CDs are dated technology. They will eventually be reduced to the status of cassettes and 8 tracks.

Now the OP asked about solutions. Well, what solutions are you seeking? How do you fix the music industry? How do you get artists to make better music? What is it exactly that you want? All of them are possible but different solutions will yield different results.

[Edited 11/7/11 10:54am]

Javi said:

Nothing is wrong with the recording industry. Many things are wrong with people who steal and download.

Did u type this with a straight face?

Javi said:

Nothing is wrong with the recording industry. Many things are wrong with people who steal and download.

Javi said:

Nothing is wrong with the recording industry. Many things are wrong with people who steal and burn CDs.

Javi said:

Nothing is wrong with the recording industry. Many things are wrong with people who steal and make casettes.

See the pattern there?

Technology will always change.

The industry will always blame its loss of profits on the "boogey men"/public and never accept responsibility for their own actions.

What company do you work for?

MTV should start selling musicvideos. It will serve Apple well to get some competition.

dJJ said:

MTV should start selling musicvideos. It will serve Apple well to get some competition.

It won't work. Music videos are even more of "just a promotional tool" than records are.

Do you really know people who would buy music videos? I don't.

BlaqueKnight said:

Its nice to see that a lot of what I have said over the years on here is being echoed in this thread. People are finally coming around to understanding just what has been happening to music (not just on here, but the masses in general).

Great explanations all around and they are pretty much all true, btw.

I'd just like to add that originally, records were used as a promotional tool for artists. The music industry revolved around artists. The more business-like it became, the more it became revolved around RECORDS. Record sales became more important than artist development. As a result, we have a lot of interchangeable artists seeking to be successful. Now that the current record-based business model has died off, labels are losing power and it is shifting. The problem is that its not really shifting to the artists. The problem isn't really that people aren't paying for music. The public was formatted into thinking that was what we were supposed to do in the first place. The INDUSTRY created the business model wherein artists are paid the way they are paid. They created it so that they could get a large chunk of the money. Well, now there is no physical thing to pay for, so naturally, people aren't paying for it. CDs are dated technology. They will eventually be reduced to the status of cassettes and 8 tracks.

Now the OP asked about solutions. Well, what solutions are you seeking? How do you fix the music industry? How do you get artists to make better music? What is it exactly that you want? All of them are possible but different solutions will yield different results.

[Edited 11/7/11 10:54am]

I have THE ultimate solutions to solving the problems of the music industry:

1. Don't try to save the music industry at all. Better yet, f*** the RIAA! Let the music industry kill itself so all recording artists on a mainstream AND underground level will be on an even playing field.

2. Only artists that actually can play musical instruments should be entitled to have an album format. All other artists (especially the Britneys & Rihannas of this world) should stick to single formats & EP format (within 4 to 6 tracks!) only.

Lets talk solutions.

What's the goal?

As an artist, your goal is to sell your art. Knowing that most music is downloaded, why bother fooling yourself into thinking CD sales are the way to go? They aren't. Its always good to have a few (hundred), but let's not pretend the internet doesn't exist. That is what labels did and you see where it got them? Focus on building your show.
Adding things to your show that others don't have makes you a more marketable artist. Unless you just think that yo are "above it all" and shouldn't have to "resort to gimmicks" to sell yourself, go right ahead and hit the stage in nothing but your street clothes and your guitar and "show them". Good luck with that. Reality is a harsh pill to swallow sometimes. Some people wish they had taken the glass of water offered with it rather than try to gulp it down before they saw the size of the pill.
Improve your show as best as you can. Get a good video montage of it and shop it to your core audience. Solicit help from fans to help you get interest. Getting interest gets gigs. A closed mouth is never fed.
Come to grips with the fact that mp3 sales may happen and they may not. Deal with it. Put them up through the usual channels and keep marketing yourself as best as you can.
Step two - hire a PR firm. Yep. If you have the dough, hire someone to do the work for you and focus on building your show. They will probably have more(and better) ideas than you do because they have dealt with many other people and have stolen their bright ideas and angles to sell their services to you in exchange for use of them. Labels do it to get their artists more attention. Why shouldn't you?

As a music consumer, the old fashioned way of acquiring music has gone to the wayside. You must first come to grips with the change if you haven't already. Artists are still releasing CDs (for now) but soon that will end. You are going to have to get used to changing how you acquire your music. There are many sites that help you do just that. First off, get into internet radio. They have genre-specific stations everywhere. Google your favorite form of music and check out stations. Check out playlists. The radio is dying off - DJs are not. As long as there are lovers of music, there will be people willing to share said love to others. Research and find your favorites. Before you know it, you will have forgotten all about the radio. You don't really need all of those commercials anyway, do you? Get a paypal account if you don't have one. It will be useful in buying music and it is safe and fast. Support artists. Its costs money to make music. If you like their work, show it by supporting their efforts. Checking message boards (like this one) of artists you like or of genres of music you are interested in will also be a good source for finding new artists.
Discuss music with friends. It seems that people don't do this as often as they used to. One of the residual effects of music marketing has been to divide music as much as possible. The compartmentalization made it easier to sell. In the 80s, people mixed it up musically. That seems to be the last era of music where consumers had any amount of control. People have been in Clear Channel hell for a couple of decades now and its time to re-condition people to value music rather than just see it as a soundtrack to their day.


If you are a record label,
JUST DIE ALREADY! YOU'RE DONE.

[Edited 11/7/11 12:12pm]

I'm not stating this as fact, just posing the question.

I should start by offering the caveat that while we all bitch about the state of music and the music industry, I still think there's a lot of great music out there, just harder to find than before.

I'm wondering if any part of the decline in so called "real music" (a hugely subjective, vague notion at best), beyond the fact that the "industry" was switched its focus, is the increasing curtailment/elimination of school music programs, especially in cities. I mean, if less people even have the basic building blocks to make "real" music or music at all (the ability to play an instrument, the ability to write and read music, etc), then what chance is there for such music to thrive? Previously when a higher percentage of kids took music classes and learned to play an instrument, etc., the chances of any one individual or group of individuals making great music that gained an audience was small. So, if there is an even smaller pool to start with, don't the chances decrease that such music will be created?

@BlaqueKnight......Having a production company is more valuble than a record label. Because of this alone, I also agree that record labels should die as well.

TonyVanDam said:

@BlaqueKnight......Having a production company is more valuble than a record label. Because of this alone, I also agree that record labels should die as well.

True.

I like the idea of only allowing real artists to record full CDs but you know some fools will slip through the cracks.

PURplEMaPLeSyrup said:

please explain to me all the reasons why the current state of the recording industry is not good enough to be recording in, and also please tell me the solutions to those problems

or else please direct me to a place where this has all been explained many times before?

many thanks!

The problem lies in the fact that non-musicians/singers/lovers of music are controlling the industry.

The current state of the industry is that its run by people who only care about making money and making it with as little effort as possible. The other problem is the teen audience which is all too easily impressed and eager to shell out their parent's coin on something mediocre and trendy.

vainandy said:

TD3 said:

The record companies never developed anyone talent wise, the communites these artist lived in did mostly if not all of that... the church, the talent shows, the music/club scene.The fact that those institutions have vanished is partly is the reason why music sucks.

All they record labels have ever done really is PR and payola....

I think Tremolina and Graycap have hit hammer on nail on whats wrong with record industry. Just think in less than a decade most of use own devices the size of a wallet, that allows use to access music, movies, books, video games, TV, and/or your cable subscription package, anywhere at anytime and that's just for starters. Music isn't the only game in town folks and the record industry now is going to have to figure how they're going to compete for the consumer dollar.... in a way they've never had to before.

It trips me out how people think that smaller is better. I remember in the 1990s when boom boxes became about the third of the size of the huge ones from the early 1980s. The commercials used to brag on how small they were. Well hell, they were smaller but they didn't thump worth a damn. Those huge boom boxes would shake the walls. I see it this way, if a musical device doesn't thump hard enough for the neighbors to call the police on you, then it ain't worth a damn.

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

Graycap23 said:

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

The powers that be have plans for us...

smoothcriminal12 said:

Graycap23 said:

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

The powers that be have plans for us...

Lol......where u been? Have u seen the cindition AfriKa is in?

Graycap23 said:

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

Cuz desperate money hungry black folk gave them the keys to the kingdom without realizing it. There is something to be said for that instant gratification thing.

Graycap23 said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

The powers that be have plans for us...

Lol......where u been? Have u seen the cindition AfriKa is in?

Look at our brothers in the ghettos and in the depths of Africa. They can enslave and rape and pillage and steal the land, but when we feel the effects of it they run away and tell us to fix it ourselves.

Graycap23 said:

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

I'm guessing because they had the money & connections to record/promote it and they had the interest in doing it?

PURplEMaPLeSyrup said:

please explain to me all the reasons why the current state of the recording industry is not good enough to be recording in, and also please tell me the solutions to those problems

or else please direct me to a place where this has all been explained many times before?

many thanks!

I don't think it's that important to be signed to a major label, but then you lose a lot of promotion money and connections that the companies have worked out. But no one should stop pursuing their dreams of being a recording artist. Just remember if you have a recording contract with someone, read it! Make sure you know what you're signing, and have a couple of other people who know the wording of a contract read it. It's real easy to say you don't agree with something, and they can change it around in seconds.

I don't think anyone should sign a contract where they don't get the master tape rights after 8 years and publishing ownership immediately.

The only purpose the RIAA serves is for the record companies, record label owners, and archive-related work. The only benefit artists get from it are x amount of copies sold to hang on the wall.

Remember that albums were originally a book that you put your 78s in, and once they developed the long player, started calling those albums. But the history of music was about the song more than it was about the person playing it. If they were great, you bought more from them and went to their shows. But in general, you had your songwriters and your singers, and few did both.

Bing Crosby and Les Paul loved recording technology because Bing was able to play golf instead of doing a live show, and Les Paul got into multitracking, which countless artists have used since, including Prince of course.

The record companies fell behind not because music was freely available, but because the 90s were a time people started buying back catalog of CDs and converting their music library over. With MP3s and other digital files, it became easy to stick your CD in a machine and rip it, that you didn't even need to go online. No more rebuying copies of a CD that got scratches or pinholes.

Blu Ray is the next generation of physical product for music. No one's really sure if it's going to be a standard for music just yet, but it'll be intended primarilty for home use and a digital copy for portable players. I think if Neil Young and Pink Floyd consider it a worthy format to issue their recordings on, and The Beatles already mastered their tapes for it, you're going to see the same packaging you see for Disney "Blu Ray + Digital Copy" on shelves.

The recording industry gouged customers and ripped off artists time and time again, but the only thing the fans have to remember is that recordings cost money and not everyone's going to be able to hit the road to make a living. I'm fine with bootlegs existing for the freeloaders, but when it comes to recordings, if you don't have the money to buy it, get a gift card or tell your library to order a copy. The people who commit any "crime" are the ones who rip it, not the ones who download it. If someone took something I wrote, an idea I had, where I put time and money into it,but someone decided to post it on a forum where others would profit? They took my idea. I can't blame people who saw it once it was out there, but I can blame the one who saw my stuff and published it without my permission.

This is where the ethics about demos or a CD not out for sale yet are the biggest concerns for artists. It is like slapping someone's journal up on the front page of a newspaper.

I think the record companies are going back to being artist advocates. Warners seems to have gone back to being artist advocates. And with Universal, Edgar Bronfman's son is a musician,so the future of Universal artists is going to be real interesting if he works with his dad. I think you're going to see more music lovers running labels, tech savvy, and back to taking chances when things smooth out. And I also think there's going to be more influence from the older musicians for younger artists to own their masters and publishing.

Prince in 2011 would be able to do things on a laptop from his bedroom that Prince in 1977 needed studio time to do. He prob. would've taken some music classes and business classes in college while he worked on his albums. I don't know if he would've signed a contract before he was out of high school, and never would've had to step foot in LA to record music.

vainandy said:

vainandy said:

adult contemp, neo stool, etc.

erykah and whitney are both the bomb.com and sold a fuck load of albums and won an armload of grammys it's not genre based it's the same principle as selling crackers. If people found out how to get cheez its and saltines for free grocery stores and nabisco would be out of business.

[Edited 11/7/11 15:10pm]

badujunkie said:

vainandy said:

erykah and whitney are both the bomb.com and sold a fuck load of albums and won an armload of grammys it's not genre based it's the same principle as selling crackers. If people found out how to get cheez its and saltines for free grocery stores and nabisco would be out of business.

[Edited 11/7/11 15:10pm]

WHAT?

Graycap23 said:

How did someone like Clive and Lovine get in CONTROL of Black music? I'm really puzzled by this.

Please do NOT get me started with Clive Davis OR Jimmy Iovine!

Say and theorise what you want about CD, he at least cared for a while.

I was going to reply with an intelligent response but now I see there's no need because y'all are a bunch of old fogies stuck in the past. When I was a teenager I used to take my lil fast-food check and go to the record store and buy 10 tapes for 100 dollars and think I was getting a bargin. I had everything that came out and would listen to it for 3 months and then never again after it got old. If something was great and stood the test of time I'd end up having to buy it over and over again. For instance I know I've bought every Prince album at least 3 times, 1999 and Purple Rain are probably at 5 or 6.

I LOVE getting my music free now! I don't feel guilty about it worth a damn. I recently made a cd of all of Prince's 12 inches that I still own but don't have a record player to play them on. It took me about 20 minutes to download them all for free and it's the best thing since sliced bread.

I did buy a real copy of The Original 7's cd though, I gotta support them guys for all their music has meant to me all my life.