Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I feel anger towards her more than anything. This girl had talent, money, fame, and still wasn't happy. People wish they had her spot in life and she threw it all away

Its as ridiculous to be angry with her as it is to blame her! Do you think people want to be drug addicts? Addicts and people with depression and/or behavioural problems, for example, are all subject to being driven by something they have no control over - it controls them. invariably, its not that person's fault. People wish they had the "fairy-tale" glamorous life of fame and fortune, but its rarely like that - just look at the casualties! The fact is, life is complex and full of many things you can't control that influence your life. You have no idea what Amy's life was like, her background, upbringing and experiences that made her who she was, so its impossible to judge (and not even anyone's place to).

Well said, thanks for posting it!

Serena said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I agree. While I was a fan of her album Back to Black I'm not going to be fake and act like I didn't see this coming. I feel sadder for those people in Norway. She could have got help if she wanted it.

I haven't looked, but I'm sure there's a thread about the Norway tragedy, there really is no comparison, so why try and make one?

Many blues/jazz singers and addicts are what they are because of their PAIN, why demonize and criticize them?

I'm just being honest. A drug addict who dies of a drug overdose is not a shock. The people in Norway didn't know what hit them and those are the people to feel sad for. Not a celebrity who could have got help if she wanted it. I'm not a fake and I'm not gonna act like one because she die

Rhonda B posted this blog on FB from Rusty Redenbacher...what do you think?

http://rustyredenbacher.t...se-is-dead

RustyWrites #YoungDeath

‘Amy Winehouse Is Dead’ 7/23/11, 4:41 p.m.

Amy Winehouse is dead. Dead. Not coming back. No follow-up, no triumphant tour trumpeting her return, no big return on some BS award-show. Dead. Found that way in her crib. Gone. Muerte. Dead.

Dead.

I just wanted to make sure you understood what happened. Now let’s talk a little bit about it.

This is a woman that had a cry for help marketed HEAVILY, pushed to radio HEAVILY, and the message that was thrust upon the kids that were listening was ‘Fuck rehab’. Not only was this cry for help marketed and promoted…it was CELEBRATED and REWARDED. Millions of records sold behind that single and five (5) Grammy’s, just like Lauryn Hill (yeah).

There IS no irony in this death. There IS no joke to make, though they write themselves and are obvious (and if you think they’re funny, fuck you). This is a tragedy that could’ve been avoided, but there’s no money in avoiding it. If a record-label has marketed you as a rebel soul, based on the fact that you say “Basically, I’mma take all the drugs I can find and you CAN’T send me to rehab.”, guess what? The label is gonna run with that image. Yes, they will…and they did.

And we all watched. It was so cute and kitschy to some… “Awww…listen to the junkie with the beehive sing about how she won’t go to rehab!”, then everybody sings along with the chorus, ‘No no no’. Then you realize you 11-year-old is singing along and THIS is on the RADIO and you go… “Hmm…?” or YOU SHOULD.

Of course, we all watched for this day. How many people didn’t have it in the back of their mind that this was how this would end? Let’s be serious; you’ve seen the pics and videos of her for the last three years. Shit, by the time she broke big, she was a junkie. HER BREAKOUT SINGLE WAS ABOUT BEING A JUNKIE. And we kept dancing…shit, some of our favorite rappers couldn’t WAIT to get on a remix. REALLY? REALLY? So, now you see that people really don’t give a damn what message they send to the kids as long as BDS spins are poppin. Sad AF.

We ALL did this. There was a cottage industry of paparazzi that watched her every move and couldn’t wait to see her all fucked up because they would be able to pay bills for two months with that picture. There’s an industry of tabloids, BS publications, and TV shows that couldn’t WAIT for Amy to fail rehab again the times she finally said “Yeah, yeah, yeah.”…and we kept watching, just as we would a car wreck or a house fire, from a distance and saying ‘Thank GOD that’s not me’.

Nah, it is us, though. It’s us, man. We are addicted to the tragedies of others. We are addicted to the glorification of ‘junkie cool’ and young death. The British music press is far worse about it; they LOOOOOOOOOVE to celebrate how fucked up someone is. (See the treatment of Shaun Ryder or Richey Edwards from Manic Street Preachers.) In America, we’ll watch you get all fucked up, but most people will ‘Tsk tsk tsk’ somewhere in there, even if under our breath. I stopped reading a lotta British music press because it seemed like the more fucked up you were, the more they covered you…in a glowing light. Here in America, we pretend that we wanna help so we can film you being all fucked up when you probably could use the time to yourself and some SERENITY instead of TV cameras and crews all in your face.

(Sidebar: FUCK Dr. Drew. He’s a fraud and a failure.)

Lemme tell you why this kinda stupid mentality bugs me so much.

I have had people very close to me and friends struggle and die from addiction. Some as close as one could be to me. When I realized that some of them were that far gone, it was so too late. There was just nothing I could do from this distance. Writing these types of blogs wouldn’t have helped because they were too fucked up to see them. Talking didn’t help because by the time I finally got to talk to them I was so happy that I actually was talking to them, I didn’t notice how fucked up they were, I was just happy they were there.

One of these people was my Father.

My Dad didn’t have the attention of the world and a catchy tune to help him. My Dad was not rewarded with trophies and accolades and he saved lives, EVERY WEEK.

My Dad was a firefighter and a paramedic. My Dad used hard drugs. My Dad pulled this off for twennysumn years, saving lives, pulling children outta burning houses, pushing on people’s chest to get their heart to beat again, driving the fire-truck or ambulance at breakneck speeds through Gary, Indiana to save someone’s life, house and belongings, or salvage whatever memories could be pulled from the ashes….and my Dad couldn’t save himself.

And I couldn’t save him. None of us could. I know his sisters and brother talked to him. I know they loved him soooo goddamn much. They NEVER stop telling me that about my Dad. They LOVE him. I LOVE him. And he’s gone, man. Dead.

That shit HURTS.

I can’t call A&E and plead with them to send someone to tell my Dad to stop. My Dad’s death wasn’t celebrated with thoughts of ‘Imma smoke this one for you.” We shouldn’t be entertained by addicts. We have to kick ass to help them, if we care. Period. Anyone who has been around one knows they’re still people and people have pride. I never once thought my Dad was doing as much as he was doing. He didn’t do that shit around me (or I didn’t see it). I knew my Dad chiefed a bit of reefer and sipped Henny here and there, but that was the extent of my knowledge. Addicts are sneaky and don’t wanna be found out. By the time they’re letting the world see how fucked up they are, they REALLY need help.

(Your ass better get proactive NOW if you just visualized or thought of someone close to you that reminds you of, because they need your help. Believe that.)

That’s why the idea of sitting here and watching how this Amy Winehouse thing went down has led me to rethink how I view TV. The messages sent on some shows about recovery, especially ‘Celebrity Rehab’, have nothing to do with ‘recovery’. Look at the name of the show, people. ‘Celebrity’ comes first. That’s ass-backwards, but that is America. “You were rich and famous before, now you’re all fucked up. Let us watch.” Rehab is a PERSONAL process, so the idea of filming it and broadcasting it to the world is fucking ridiculous.

The idea of cameras in your room with night-vision while you’re lying there going through withdrawal symptoms probably doesn’t make the process any easier. When you’re in group therapy talking about whatever is was that happened to you that got you to this point, I would think keeping it in the group would be the move, not having the boom mic guy hit you on the top of the head with the mic while he’s making sure not to miss a word of you spilling your soul and trying to fix yourself.

Folks, I killed Amy Winehouse. I listened to that record. I even spun it a couple times because people requested it and when I got the remix with Jay, I played that too. I celebrated her massive cry for help as a ‘catchy tune’.

You killed Amy Winehouse. You requested that record. You went to her shows and talked about how great it was and when she got to the ‘No no no’ part, you threw your fist up and sang along. You laughed in my face when she won five Grammys for it (like those aren’t bought anyway) and told me I was stupid for refusing to play her record anymore.

The paparazzi killed Amy Winehouse. They stalked her and egged her on. They encouraged her be more fucked up and antagonized her when she was so the tabloids would get a cover shot of ‘AMY WINEHOUSE IN CRACK-FUELED RAGE!!!!!!!’; (‘90+ dead in Norway, see page 8’) Yeah, the paparazzi and the scumbag press that pays them so they can write 1500 word stories about a 100 word happening killed Amy Winehouse.

The label killed Amy Winehouse. Surely, you would think that people who had so much to gain from her music would encourage her to get better. I’m sure they did. There’s so much money to make from a great comeback. Everybody loves a happy ending. Then again…dead rockstars make a TON of money and every time a YouTube clip pops up of a concert fail or a pic of her gets up with ‘suspicious powder on her nose and strange scabs’, people go back and remember what WAS there. It’s GREAT free promotion. A fucked up pop-star is the best free marketing machine a label could ask for.

“Why do we need her to get better when people are still buying the last record? Everyone knows what they’re getting with her…and they still go to shows. The press hasn’t left her alone since the album came out. This is a self-cleaning oven that keeps making its own pies…for smashing into the owner’s face. Perfect. Stay fucked up. We don’t hafta hire producers, musicians, or engineers either. We don’t hafta spend ANY time or money on promotion. We STAY winning.”

The above five paragraphs (one for each Grammy) illustrate facts that are partially true. The next one is total truth.

Amy Winehouse killed Amy Winehouse. Her refusal to acknowledge her problem, in fact, telling you she was gonna do nothing about it led to her demise. It had nothing to do with us. We just watched.

…but we shouldn’t have been watching.

If someone you love has a problem, you gotta take action. That’s what I gather from all of this. I lived through these things to talk to you about them in songs and these essays for a reason, man.

Now get better if it’s you I’m talking about and help someone else if it ain’t. There is no shame in getting help and you don’t hafta broadcast it to the world. The world will know when you’re better. Trust me. I used to drink a lot, man. I was in the club fucked up. I never felt like an alcoholic, but I may have looked like one to some people.

I handled it…quietly at first, and once I felt secure in my new footing, I talked the walk. My broadcasting that to the world is by CHOICE. Five years, no beers. That’s my CHOICE to say that to you. No one is stalking me and making sure I stay on the wagon, I do it for me. I LIKE being awake in the club, man! (sorry, I needed a bit of levity for myself)

Well, don’t just sit there looking at the screen. Go do something…life is for living and 20sumn year-old’s ain’t supposed to die…when you can do something.

RR

(P.S. I didn’t know what I was writing about when I started this, but I definitely know I wrote this in memory of my Father and wish Amy Winehouse’s soul more peace in rest than it had in life. God bless us all.

I suffer severe clinical depression--I mean depression to the point that you sometimes consider suicide--yet I'm not a drug addict or an alcoholic. Depression may play a role in it, but it's definitely not the biggest factor.

silverchild said:

uPtoWnNY said:

co-sign

As much as I have to admit it, aaliyahcashmere89's comment rings true for me as well. I wasn't a big fan, but I loved Frank and Back To Black. The stories of her abundant drug use and celebrity life was devastating and I distanced myself totally from that. I found her story and life to be one that was torturous as well. But at least, her music is a keepsake and it will prove to be the most important part of her short life. Unfortunately, her death just didn't surprise me much. That might be hard to take for some, but it didn't. It was sad, along with the situation in Norway. I will miss Amy though! R.I.P.

[Edited 7/23/11 14:07pm]

Thank you. I'm happy someone on here has common sense . I liked her Back to Black album but lets be real. The women could have got help if she wanted it. I'm not shocked

SamSamba said:

Serena said:

Many blues/jazz singers and addicts are what they are because of their PAIN, why demonize and criticize them?

What an utterly silly and pointless generalization.

Maybe I didn't write that clearly if you think that. I'm not saying that all blues/jazz singers are addicts, but that their soulful singing comes from pain. Addicts are frequently trying to self-medicate pain away. The high isn't enjoyable after awhile, but becomes necessary to make it through the day and they usually hate themselves because of it.

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

Serena said:

I haven't looked, but I'm sure there's a thread about the Norway tragedy, there really is no comparison, so why try and make one?

Many blues/jazz singers and addicts are what they are because of their PAIN, why demonize and criticize them?

I'm just being honest. A drug addict who dies of a drug overdose is not a shock. The people in Norway didn't know what hit them and those are the people to feel sad for. Not a celebrity who could have got help if she wanted it. I'm not a fake and I'm not gonna act like one because she die

This thread isn't about the folks in Norway, it's about AMY. If you have no compassion for someone who was hurting, that's your cold heart and problem.

JowiiCoco said:

SCNDLS said:

Who's shocked? It's still a great loss to some people no matter the circumstances. If you're so bothered by people expressing that WHY are you in here?

There's at least one person on this thread who said he was shocked, [Flame snip - luv4u].

Apperently, you were talking about me. What did you say after "shocked"? It's been censored now, but i really like to know.

Serena said:

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said: Its as ridiculous to be angry with her as it is to blame her! Do you think people want to be drug addicts? Addicts and people with depression and/or behavioural problems, for example, are all subject to being driven by something they have no control over - it controls them. invariably, its not that person's fault. People wish they had the "fairy-tale" glamorous life of fame and fortune, but its rarely like that - just look at the casualties! The fact is, life is complex and full of many things you can't control that influence your life. You have no idea what Amy's life was like, her background, upbringing and experiences that made her who she was, so its impossible to judge (and not even anyone's place to).

Well said, thanks for posting it!

^^^ An important point which has not been highlighted in this discussion. But, in saying that, a person has to realize they have no control, seek help, and do what they have to do to stay well. A double-edged sword, indeed...

[Edited 7/23/11 14:32pm]

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

mozfonky said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

All great artist have alot of crazy in their personal life. Marvin, Michael Jackson, Prince, Miles Davis, Rick James, Elvis, Billie Holiday and countless others. I just got done with a book about Ike Turner. He did alot of bad things (beating women) but drugs and childhood demons played a big part of it. He wasn't a ''monster''

Well, I am a musician, been around musicians, never really bought into that aspect of it though. Don't associate with people who use drugs and alcohol or don't have any self-control. I've had a hard life too, I don't use those things to excuse anything. And Michael, Marvin,Elvis, all heroes of mine all had great redeeming qualities but in the end, I just don't really understand it. There are lots of talented people out here, my belief is, you get shots (which is something, believe it or not, that you don't really control) you make the most of it, you don't throw it away. I think these guys would often be better off if they just had to get up and face a nine to five like everyone else, some people may be better off with that kind of oppression. You know, on friday and saturday nights I observe all the craziness that people create after being manipulated,mistreated, bossed around all week and realize some people can't handle any freedom. It's sad but somewhat confusing to me.

[Edited 7/23/11 14:02pm]

It's confusing to me too. I don't understand why people are scared to ask for help. I hate wasted talent

PDogz said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I feel anger towards her more than anything. This girl had talent, money, fame, and still wasn't happy. People wish they had her spot in life and she threw it all away

That's very close to the way I feel as well. Except Amy's untimely demise also helps me realize that fame and fortune do not always equal happiness, and encourages me to appreciate my own station in life.

As usual PDogz what you say is true, and something all of us should think about when we contemplate what is important in life, and what isn't. Thank you.

Serena said:

SamSamba said:

What an utterly silly and pointless generalization.

Maybe I didn't write that clearly if you think that. I'm not saying that all blues/jazz singers are addicts, but that their soulful singing comes from pain.

No I understood what you were saying. You weren't saying that they're all addicts, but that all (all) blues / jazz singers only get their inspiration from real pain. It's still a generalization, and a bit archaic at that. It might have been like that in the past, but for the most part, today it's more or less "fake" in the way that you need hard work on your CRAFT and a dedication to succeed, not crack cocaine. It's a bit like in hip hop, in the sense that Rick Ross can claim to be a drug kingpin, when he was a correctional officer.

And second of all, don't lump blues with jazz, even though to you they may be the same "sound" (which it isn't - also, jazz requires improvisation, therefore for instance Sinatra wasn't one). Winehouse was neither, by the way. She was a pop singer with a "jazzy" tone, who did kind of soul-ish tunes.

[Edited 7/23/11 14:23pm]

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I'm just being honest. A drug addict who dies of a drug overdose is not a shock. The people in Norway didn't know what hit them and those are the people to feel sad for. Not a celebrity who could have got help if she wanted it. I'm not a fake and I'm not gonna act like one because she die

You may be "being honest", but you're basing your view on misconceptions. There is absolutely no link between her death, the deaths in Norway, the many people who are dying in Somalia right now, or someone who will have been run over in your town today - they're all tragedies and all as valid as each other. And the other fact is, she HAS tried to get help, many times, checking herself in to rehab. she had, reportedly, kicked the drugs and was now trying to sort out her alcohol problem. If you're "not a fake" then don't ignore facts!

She was not off drugs. Stop it!

well if I died even if I did have a problem id want people to be polite and not be like "well i wasn't surprised". Like even if she didn't take care of her body dying really serious. If you don't have anything to say that's not disrespectful don't say it. But..free county

[Edited 7/23/11 14:26pm]

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

SamSamba said:

This. I feel exactly like this at this moment.

To have a life and career - let alone TALENT - like hers, and just throw it all away.

"Back To Black" is a good contemporary soul album, and her take on that tune "Valerie" (on Mark Ronson's LP) is fabolous. BUT - that's about it for me. She was a good, jazzy singer, with severe issues.

I feel anger towards her more than anything. This girl had talent, money, fame, and still wasn't happy. People wish they had her spot in life and she threw it all away

That is not synonymous with happiness or even satisfaction.

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I feel anger towards her more than anything. This girl had talent, money, fame, and still wasn't happy. People wish they had her spot in life and she threw it all away

Its as ridiculous to be angry with her as it is to blame her! Do you think people want to be drug addicts? Addicts and people with depression and/or behavioural problems, for example, are all subject to being driven by something they have no control over - it controls them. invariably, its not that person's fault. People wish they had the "fairy-tale" glamorous life of fame and fortune, but its rarely like that - just look at the casualties! The fact is, life is complex and full of many things you can't control that influence your life. You have no idea what Amy's life was like, her background, upbringing and experiences that made her who she was, so its impossible to judge (and not even anyone's place to).

Do you know how many people have delt with drug addiction and beat it? Look up Robert Downey Jr. He is the come back kid! Too many people have warned Amy and wanted to help her but she could not/ would not help herself. She had real talent and theres nothing worst than wasted talent. We all saw this coming. This was a logical conclusion

I also take exception that it's the mark of genius, I don't think everyone that dies like this is that exceptional. Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin, on and on, never really struck me as being super brilliant (i Know others may disagree) I think some people just fall in love with their own self-pity and like the attention that it brings. Life is hard for all of us, not just these people, hell, I think anyone saying they never thought of suicide is lying, life is pain, it's one of the great truths of any religion. But we are here and we have to carry on, do our best in our own flawed ways.

I finally found the excerpt from the DVD where she first performed for the Island Records folks:

eta: crap, I didn't finish watching it and it's cut off. But I encourage folks to get the DVD and watch the extra features, they're very interesting!

[Edited 7/23/11 14:34pm]

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

SUPRMAN said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

I feel anger towards her more than anything. This girl had talent, money, fame, and still wasn't happy. People wish they had her spot in life and she threw it all away

That is not synonymous with happiness or even satisfaction.

no it's not, but it gives you options and power that alot of people don't have. I've paid for being a musician, it's a tough, dirty, competitive business and the shit I have to go through because I can't make money off my music is a nightmare. None of it's fun, I just cannot for the life of me understand how having a variety of options just makes people that self-destructive.

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

She was not off drugs. Stop it!

You know that for a fact, do you? I don't know it either, just going on the reports (hint: that's why I said "reportedly"!) that after entering herself in to rehab, she had stopped doing drugs. Regardless, even if shit in no way diminishes the tragedy of her passing and I find it cold that you continue to do so.

Her death is a tragedy but one most sane people saw coming. 27 year olds don't die for no reason.

noimageatall said:

Rhonda B posted this blog on FB from Rusty Redenbacher...what do you think?

http://rustyredenbacher.t...se-is-dead

Some valid points, but overall; a bit too preachy, for me. I wasn't one of those that celebrated Amy's train-wreck of a life, nor was I a fan of "Rehab". I acknowledged that she was a talented artist, but that was the extent of my participation in her world.

I don't understand why this must be compared to the tragedy in Norway.

All I care about is how Amy sang to my broken heart.

[Edited 7/23/11 14:39pm]

PDogz said:

noimageatall said:

Rhonda B posted this blog on FB from Rusty Redenbacher...what do you think?

http://rustyredenbacher.t...se-is-dead

Some valid points, but overall; a bit too preachy, for me. I wasn't one of those that celebrated Amy's train-wreck of a life, nor was I a fan of "Rehab". I acknowledged that she was a talented artist, but that was the extent of my participation in her world.

well, I hardly know of any of her music, and honestly, I thought she had a unique look and a personal beauty, I really don't see alot of unique talent like I have when I say, first heard Alicia keys or Regina Spektor, so I didn't really do a lot of listening. He's right about the media and the state of humanity though, we would rather see people fuck up than succeed, just where most people are.

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said: You know that for a fact, do you? I don't know it either, just going on the reports (hint: that's why I said "reportedly"!) that after entering herself in to rehab, she had stopped doing drugs. Regardless, even if shit in no way diminishes the tragedy of her passing and I find it cold that you continue to do so.

Her death is a tragedy but one most sane people saw coming. 27 year olds don't die for no reason.

People of all ages die for all sorts of reasons all the time. Sorry, this is all evidently doing a fly-by on you. Don't worry about it.

Elle85n09 said:

PDogz said:

That's very close to the way I feel as well. Except Amy's untimely demise also helps me realize that fame and fortune do not always equal happiness, and encourages me to appreciate my own station in life.

As usual PDogz what you say is true, and something all of us should think about when we contemplate what is important in life, and what isn't. Thank you.

I thought she was incredibly overrated as an artist. Sad news, but this was completely expected.

What a terrible thing. So sad when the foreseeable simply can't be sidestepped. May she R.I.P.

[Edited 7/23/11 14:46pm]

Mindflux said:

aaliyahcashmere89 said:

Her death is a tragedy but one most sane people saw coming. 27 year olds don't die for no reason.

People of all ages die for all sorts of reasons all the time. Sorry, this is all evidently doing a fly-by on you. Don't worry about it.

yes they do, and that's all the more reason to love life. In reading Marvins bio, Tammi Terrel's story broke my heart, she didn't do anything to deserve dying at 24 from brain cancer. Life's like that, we never know.