Unholyalliance said:

Swa said:

It does seem like MJ fans are more keen on being known for having something, than for sharing something. It's like people are still trying to prove they are bigger fans by having something you don't or having something you haven't heard - but hey, if you want to hear it - gimme money.

Some fans might want to protect Michael's legacy by not releasing or sharing songs if they aren't great (if I had Carousel I'd probably accidently erase it ) but I doubt this - maybe more since he died but still...

Yeah this.

That song is terrible. I can't believe someone even had the nerve to write it into existence.

I love Carousel.

seeingvoices12 said:

Timmy84 said:

What? Leaving? Fuck that. Don't let one's remarks stop you from coming in here. Just avoid it and keep it moving. If you wanna post the pictures, I'm cool with it. Really I am. I can see both sides but yeah.

LOL, It's not like I'm not letting anyone post pics of them here , you know, I don't have the power to do that and never will , members can do whatever they want, It's a point I wanted to make...some fans can take it or leave....

I'm sorry if I offended anyone , especially Naughtykitty

Its cool. I see where you're coming from and you're entitled to your opinion, lets just agree to disagree on this one. Like Mookie said, these arent like private pics from a webcam and pics of the kids in this thread are few and far in between. I dont expect everyone to love the pics of them, but others do appreciate seeing them out having fun every so once in a while. Some fans are naturally gonna be curious about them and wanna see how they're doing.

Swa said:

bboy87 said:

Since it's been a big topic for me for awhile (I've discussed this with NMuzak and Militant) but what do you guys think of bootlegs and trading? It seems Michael Jackson fans follow a different set of rules.

While I've seen Prince and Stevie Wonder fans being very generous, Michael fans have been pretty big on hoarding material. People want credit for leaking something or refuse to share footage or songs with other fans

Trading seems nonexistant. I'm sure some of ya'll remember the MJ DVD online stores

It does seem like MJ fans are more keen on being known for having something, than for sharing something. It's like people are still trying to prove they are bigger fans by having something you don't or having something you haven't heard - but hey, if you want to hear it - gimme money.

[Edited 5/25/11 19:35pm]

Yes, I've noticed this as well. Its distressing to see that kind of attitude from them

I wouldn't mind paying to listen to unreleased songs...What I can't stand would be something like "Sorry you're not qualified as a loyal MJ fan, so..." -_- It's probably wrong to even share unreleased songs from the beginning...if you have it somehow and if you want to charge then go ahead. I'd much rather pay for it, get the song and be done with it than get dragged into the drama of being judged as a respected MJ fan or not.

Not releasing terrible MJ songs(if there is one) is not "protecting" MJ's legacy at all imo. I'm not talking about fake songs but some songs that some diehard fans don't think it's good enough. Mozart died and his unfinished work was revealed and one of his most highly rated masterpieces Requiem was even completed by his student. At this point I'm sure no one confidently knows which songs MJ was planning to release or not. So if you've already released and leaked many songs after his death...why not just reveal everything?? No one considers new material as 100% MJ's legacy anyway...

Emancipation89 said:

I wouldn't mind paying to listen to unreleased songs...What I can't stand would be something like "Sorry you're not qualified as a loyal MJ fan, so..." -_- It's probably wrong to even share unreleased songs from the beginning...if you have it somehow and if you want to charge then go ahead. I'd much rather pay for it, get the song and be done with it than get dragged into the drama of being judged as a respected MJ fan or not.

Not releasing terrible MJ songs(if there is one) is not "protecting" MJ's legacy at all imo. I'm not talking about fake songs but some songs that some diehard fans don't think it's good enough. Mozart died and his unfinished work was revealed and one of his most highly rated masterpieces Requiem was even completed by his student. At this point I'm sure no one confidently knows which songs MJ was planning to release or not. So if you've already released and leaked many songs after his death...why not just reveal everything?? No one considers new material as 100% MJ's legacy anyway...

I've gotten that a couple of times. From them "new fans" no less. I was like "Muthafucka, I've been an MJ fan before you thought he was cool!"

When Frédéric Chopin died, he insisted any work he never published be destroyed. It was at the insistence of his family that his friend Fontana release a few selected works. If Chopin had his way, we'd NEVER have some famous classical pieces as we know them today. An example of which is Fantasie Impromptu. And THAT would've been a tragedy, IMO.

What I think should happen is, a dear friend of Michael should go in there (I nominate Stevie Wonder)...pick a few songs that he might deem worthy to be heard, and then release them. Perhaps as singles, or full blown albums, it's doesn't matter. But it beats being at the mercy of these other mofos, that's fer damn sure.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Emancipation89 said:

I wouldn't mind paying to listen to unreleased songs...What I can't stand would be something like "Sorry you're not qualified as a loyal MJ fan, so..." -_- It's probably wrong to even share unreleased songs from the beginning...if you have it somehow and if you want to charge then go ahead. I'd much rather pay for it, get the song and be done with it than get dragged into the drama of being judged as a respected MJ fan or not.

Not releasing terrible MJ songs(if there is one) is not "protecting" MJ's legacy at all imo. I'm not talking about fake songs but some songs that some diehard fans don't think it's good enough. Mozart died and his unfinished work was revealed and one of his most highly rated masterpieces Requiem was even completed by his student. At this point I'm sure no one confidently knows which songs MJ was planning to release or not. So if you've already released and leaked many songs after his death...why not just reveal everything?? No one considers new material as 100% MJ's legacy anyway...

I've gotten that a couple of times. From them "new fans" no less. I was like "Muthafucka, I've been an MJ fan before you thought he was cool!"

When Frédéric Chopin died, he insisted any work he never published be destroyed. It was at the insistence of his family that his friend Fontana release a few selected works. If Chopin had his way, we'd NEVER have some famous classical pieces as we know them today. An example of which is Fantasie Impromptu. And THAT would've been a tragedy, IMO.

What I think should happen is, a dear friend of Michael should go in there (I nominate Stevie Wonder)...pick a few songs that he might deem worthy to be heard, and then release them. Perhaps as singles, or full blown albums, it's doesn't matter. But it beats being at the mercy of these other mofos, that's fer damn sure.

Some fans have actually said that?

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Emancipation89 said:

I wouldn't mind paying to listen to unreleased songs...What I can't stand would be something like "Sorry you're not qualified as a loyal MJ fan, so..." -_- It's probably wrong to even share unreleased songs from the beginning...if you have it somehow and if you want to charge then go ahead. I'd much rather pay for it, get the song and be done with it than get dragged into the drama of being judged as a respected MJ fan or not.

Not releasing terrible MJ songs(if there is one) is not "protecting" MJ's legacy at all imo. I'm not talking about fake songs but some songs that some diehard fans don't think it's good enough. Mozart died and his unfinished work was revealed and one of his most highly rated masterpieces Requiem was even completed by his student. At this point I'm sure no one confidently knows which songs MJ was planning to release or not. So if you've already released and leaked many songs after his death...why not just reveal everything?? No one considers new material as 100% MJ's legacy anyway...

I've gotten that a couple of times. From them "new fans" no less. I was like "Muthafucka, I've been an MJ fan before you thought he was cool!"

When Frédéric Chopin died, he insisted any work he never published be destroyed. It was at the insistence of his family that his friend Fontana release a few selected works. If Chopin had his way, we'd NEVER have some famous classical pieces as we know them today. An example of which is Fantasie Impromptu. And THAT would've been a tragedy, IMO.

What I think should happen is, a dear friend of Michael should go in there (I nominate Stevie Wonder)...pick a few songs that he might deem worthy to be heard, and then release them. Perhaps as singles, or full blown albums, it's doesn't matter. But it beats being at the mercy of these other mofos, that's fer damn sure.

Wow, I love Chopin and I never knew that about him!

But see the difference is...Mozart and MJ didn't leave any statements like that when they died even though they were known as perfectionists...Honestly, I can see both sides' point of view. People saying "Michael didn't just write those songs for himself, he wrote them for fans. He wanted his message to be heard" and the other side that says "Michael was a perfectionist. Songs were not released for a reason". I must admit I'm more of a selfish fan who's only dying to hear ANYTHING that's MJ (even if it's just 10 second humming, I don't care lol) but I think your idea is great!

[Edited 5/26/11 10:39am]

All of this talk about MJ fans not wanting to share any unreleased music they own... I guess Will.I.Am falls into this category as well.

Derek1984 said:

All of this talk about MJ fans not wanting to share any unreleased music they own... I guess Will.I.Am falls into this category as well.

Right lol

Sorry, just had to post this

Derek1984 said:

All of this talk about MJ fans not wanting to share any unreleased music they own... I guess Will.I.Am falls into this category as well.

Oh god THIS. This is what pissed me off so much when he was like "I got this music and you can't hear it." It was like a big FUCK YOU to everyone. I know that he might have cared deeply for MJ, but this is still art. Even if he was a real stickler for things being finished before they were released, he is gone now. The only way to spread his legacy is to share it along with everyone else. That is how you keep him and his art alive. If no one knows about it, then he & his work really is as good as dead.

I’m kind of in the middle when it comes to people releasing tracks that Michael didn’t want released.

Unreleased tracks.

Ok so here is my pov on things. I know I touched a nerve on my comment on Carousel with some people and I respect that some people like it.

And as Bboy rightly points out there are some great songs that didn't make the cut on various albums that we all love - Behind The Mask, Monkey Business, In The Back, We've had enough, The Way That You Love Me, Beautiful Girl, Someone put your hand out, Do You Know Where Your Children Are, etc.

I guess for me, the Thriller era non-album work is some of the weakest in the group. The reason I think this is, is because you had external writers writing songs for Michael with perhaps their own notion of what a Michael Jackson song should sound like - for me Carousel is this. A song someone thought would work for MJ because it matched their cute kid impression of him.

The more I dig around in the unreleased world the more I am drawn to the songs Mike wrote, rather than someone else for him - especially during the Dangerous/History period - there's a richer, deeper level of stuff there.

Unreleased stuff will always be a mixed bag - some great gems that didn't fit and some weak ass tracks that weren't good enough. Every creative process has them.

And my final word on Carousel - I shudder every time I think this could have been on the album in place of Human Nature - now imagine if we never got to hear HN?

Swa said:

The reason I think this is, is because you had external writers writing songs for Michael with perhaps their own notion of what a Michael Jackson song should sound like - for me Carousel is this. A song someone thought would work for MJ because it matched their cute kid impression of him.

The more I dig around in the unreleased world the more I am drawn to the songs Mike wrote, rather than someone else for him - especially during the Dangerous/History period - there's a richer, deeper level of stuff there.

Unreleased stuff will always be a mixed bag - some great gems that didn't fit and some weak ass tracks that weren't good enough. Every creative process has them.

And my final word on Carousel - I shudder every time I think this could have been on the album in place of Human Nature - now imagine if we never got to hear HN?

THIS X1000000

I could not agree with you more. Though, I have to say, that the thought of that song and Billie Jean on the same album makes me lol a bit. That song would have worked better if MJ was like...10 years old at the time he sang it.

I do think that even w/o me realizing it, I have always preferred his self-penned works. A huge majority of my favorite MJ songs were penned by him. I don't know what it is/was, but there's just something in own stuff that I'm drawn to. That Carousel song can wither away into obscurity imo. No offense to anyone who loves that song.

It was not meant to be on Thriller but the judgment is a bit harsh lmao

Don't hate on Sembello.

Just watched for about the 10th time the whole Encino interview back in '83. One thing I always take notice is how confident he was with Buffalo Bill being a hit. I also believe around this time that Frank Dileo was quoted in Rolling Stone about this song being another hit. So I wonder, why was this never released??

Between Buffalo Bill and Men In Black, I have high hopes for these...

Derek1984 said:

Just watched for about the 10th time the whole Encino interview back in '83. One thing I always take notice is how confident he was with Buffalo Bill being a hit. I also believe around this time that Frank Dileo was quoted in Rolling Stone about this song being another hit. So I wonder, why was this never released??

Between Buffalo Bill and Men In Black, I have high hopes for these...

I would think with artists, even something they're passionate with gets lost in the shuffle. Michael must've created or co-created like 200 songs between 1983 and 1986 that somehow he either lost interest in or the songs themselves got lost in the midst of him creating event albums as "Bad", "Dangerous" and "HIStory" were.

Timmy84 said:

Derek1984 said:

Just watched for about the 10th time the whole Encino interview back in '83. One thing I always take notice is how confident he was with Buffalo Bill being a hit. I also believe around this time that Frank Dileo was quoted in Rolling Stone about this song being another hit. So I wonder, why was this never released??

Between Buffalo Bill and Men In Black, I have high hopes for these...

I would think with artists, even something they're passionate with gets lost in the shuffle. Michael must've created or co-created like 200 songs between 1983 and 1986 that somehow he either lost interest in or the songs themselves got lost in the midst of him creating event albums as "Bad", "Dangerous" and "HIStory" were.

Right. So the question becomes, how finished were these unreleased tracks. Going by information I have gathered through the years, both Buffalo Bill and MIB would seem to be pretty close to being completed. And in regards to Buffalo Bill, it was worked on for Victory but I also think MJ worked on it for BAD as well. So it might of had some lasting power.

Timmy84 said:

It was not meant to be on Thriller but the judgment is a bit harsh lmao

Don't hate on Sembello.

It was meant to be on Thriller. It was in the place where Human Nature finally resided.

Swa said:

Timmy84 said:

It was not meant to be on Thriller but the judgment is a bit harsh lmao

Don't hate on Sembello.

It was meant to be on Thriller. It was in the place where Human Nature finally resided.

But see? This is why I said "smart decision" on them NOT putting it on "Thriller". For one, the lyrical matter didn't fit where "Thriller" was going. Second, the ballad was TOO simple. Sure you can say that about "The Girl is Mine" but I think that song served a purpose on the album for some reason. "Carousel" was great but it sounded like it could've been on another album in between OTW and Thriller.

Plus "Human Nature" is a chilling-type of track.

Timmy84 said:

Swa said:

It was meant to be on Thriller. It was in the place where Human Nature finally resided.

But see? This is why I said "smart decision" on them NOT putting it on "Thriller". For one, the lyrical matter didn't fit where "Thriller" was going. Second, the ballad was TOO simple. Sure you can say that about "The Girl is Mine" but I think that song served a purpose on the album for some reason. "Carousel" was great but it sounded like it could've been on another album in between OTW and Thriller.

The Girl Is Mine had a much stronger melody than Carousel. That's why that song served a purpose.

Derek1984 said:

Timmy84 said:

But see? This is why I said "smart decision" on them NOT putting it on "Thriller". For one, the lyrical matter didn't fit where "Thriller" was going. Second, the ballad was TOO simple. Sure you can say that about "The Girl is Mine" but I think that song served a purpose on the album for some reason. "Carousel" was great but it sounded like it could've been on another album in between OTW and Thriller.

The Girl Is Mine had a much stronger melody than Carousel. That's why that song served a purpose.

I know it was but some would argue the opposite.

Timmy84 said:

Derek1984 said:

The Girl Is Mine had a much stronger melody than Carousel. That's why that song served a purpose.

I know it was but some would argue the opposite.

I like Carousel it's not on my list of favorites but I like it , I could see him and his brothers singing it. Baby be mine is no different from it imo I like when Michael sings sugarly pop tracks too .

I love Carousel.

Emancipation89 said:

Baby be mine is untouchable!! I love Rod Tempertons style... It's the Most underrated track of thriller To me Baby Be Mine is more of the echo of Off the Wall album than PYT or Wanna B Starting Somethin ^^! All song of thriller should've been released as singles...

Like I said I like when he does those types of pop songs P.Y.T. as well I like too I don’t know they are fun tracks that I enjoy lol. I love him when he’s being artistic/deep and sugarly pop

armpit said:

I love Carousel.

GET YOUR ASS OFF THAT BOX! "Carousel" is a fine song. I'm not gonna judge anyone that DON'T like it but don't expect me to jump on the bandwagon.

Emancipation89 said:

Baby be mine is untouchable!! I love Rod Tempertons style... It's the Most underrated track of thriller To me Baby Be Mine is more of the echo of Off the Wall album than PYT or Wanna B Starting Somethin ^^! All song of thriller should've been released as singles...

Right. It was the only reminder of OTW but it was perfect for Thriller because the sound wasn't too different. Plus it had the synth pop feel that Thriller had throughout the album.