Really? Michael Jackson's music is basically the definitive soundtrack of the '80s. His albums have set records that no one can or will break. His music is constantly sampled and remade.
Yes his music is popular but I dont think that is why he is an icon-with Michael, wrongly or rightly it is the visual specatcle. He is emulated-in my opinion because it hits an immediate nerve i.e. taps into peoples innate listening and sensory laziness. Michael gave the video its ultimate platform and his visual almost preempted the modern nature of celebrity consumerisms
Personally I'd pick Bruce Lee but I think u might be correct.
It's his rare talent what Made MJ , He is an International icon.
People are mixing icon with favourite artist-Michael is easily an icon-rare talent I think is beyond subjective I feel it is almiost a definitive fact that he is not. He was a supported industry and was marketed for sale not artistry. With the levl of commercial audacity pushing tripe like BAD how could he not fail.
They will never reach him globaly:-? and read SeanMan's post....
posted by SeanMan
Lennon and McCartney's icon status and prolific songwriting aside, if we're talking about global pop icon status, MJ comes out ahead of the Beatles. Go to any inner city neighborhood and ask someone to sing an MJ song word for word, then do the same in a wealthy neighborhood, and I'm sure it could be done. I'm not so sure about the Beatles. Do you see little children dressing up as and emulating The Beatles? Nope. Michael Jackson's fame crosses color lines, social status lines, age brackets and whatever else you can think of. He is a global phenomenon. From the far reaches of any foreign country to the most backwoods town in Anywhere USA, people know who he is. We've never seen the likes of that kind of fame in our lifetime, and I really don't think anyone will ever be able to duplicate it
On what planet? Polyphemus?
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
Don't come at The Beatles.
I for one don't believe those numbers, even with the "Media" or "Record labels" giving us these numbers.... MJ still was bigger than the beetles.
Thriller, alone sold 120 million worldwide, thats ONE ALBUM... did anyone but MJ do that..
The beetles NEVER had as much controversial as MJ and Never had anyone trying to tarnish their image. So its unfair to talk about "sales" or numbers....
popularity wise and celebrity wise, MJ is bigger..... and didn't he gross
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
Don't come at The Beatles.
I already explained it, genius. If you don't care to read it then that's on you. You keep speaking on "sales". Sales shmales. When it comes down to icon status and who STILL TO THIS DAY has everyone from babies to senior citizens emulating him and knowing his songs, it is Michael Jackson who takes the crown, NOT the Beatles. As I said before, Michael Jackson is known from the most ghetto of ghettos to the richest parts of the world, and everywhere in between. You'd be hard pressed to find a kid from the inner cities knowing a "Yellow Submarine" from a "She Loves You", but ask him about "Billie Jean" and he'll be humming that famous bass line in a heartbeat. Rich people, poor people, black, white, young, old, foreign and domestic know who Michael Jackson is. His fame crosses gender lines, color lines, and social and economic lines. THAT is the mark of a true pop icon--not whether or not they've sold 350 million records. And anyway, since you love talking about sales so much, "Thriller" ALONE sold about half that, and that's just one of his albums.
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
Don't come at The Beatles.
I for one don't believe those numbers, even with the "Media" or "Record labels" giving us these numbers.... MJ still was bigger than the beetles.
Thriller, alone sold 120 million worldwide, thats ONE ALBUM... did anyone but MJ do that..
The beetles NEVER had as much controversial as MJ and Never had anyone trying to tarnish their image. So its unfair to talk about "sales" or numbers....
popularity wise and celebrity wise, MJ is bigger..... and didn't he gross
Those numbers aren't actually low balled at all. It came from a chart expert that's also a huge MJ floon on another forum dedicated to sales. It's all archived. All these 750 million claims for Michael, 1 billion for Elvis, 1 billion for the Beatles are all ridiculous and total baloney. In Jackson's case, it originated from a press release when he got that purchased World Music Award for Thriller selling 104 million copies even though Sony confirmed 60 million when they re-released the record two years later in 2008.
The Beatles defeat MJ in every single market around the globe except those in Africa where they still managed to find success.
Elvis, on the other hand, has only managed to outsell MJ in the U.S., U.K., and maybe a few Scandinavian markets. Michael has outsold him everywhere else, by good margins.
And in terms of controversy, so what?
I never really understood or grasped the Beatles' impact until I truly educated myself on the matter. What they achieved in less than a decade is truly astonishing. Go read up on it.
I for one don't believe those numbers, even with the "Media" or "Record labels" giving us these numbers.... MJ still was bigger than the beetles.
Thriller, alone sold 120 million worldwide, thats ONE ALBUM... did anyone but MJ do that..
The beetles NEVER had as much controversial as MJ and Never had anyone trying to tarnish their image. So its unfair to talk about "sales" or numbers....
popularity wise and celebrity wise, MJ is bigger..... and didn't he gross
Those numbers aren't actually low balled at all. It came from a chart expert that's also a huge MJ floon on another forum dedicated to sales. It's all archived. All these 750 million claims for Michael, 1 billion for Elvis, 1 billion for the Beatles are all ridiculous and total baloney. In Jackson's case, it originated from a press release when he got that purchased World Music Award for Thriller selling 104 million copies even though Sony confirmed 60 million when they re-released the record two years later in 2008.
The Beatles defeat MJ in every single market around the globe except those in Africa where they still managed to find success.
Elvis, on the other hand, has only managed to outsell MJ in the U.S., U.K., and maybe a few Scandinavian markets. Michael has outsold him everywhere, by good margins.
And in terms of controversy, so what?
I never really understood or grasped the Beatles' impact until I truly educated myself on the matter. What they achieved in less than a decade is truly astonishing. Go read up on it.
I made the mistake of not looking into it myself. Now that I have, to deny that they had any impact is like saying you don't like to breathe.
Those numbers aren't actually low balled at all. It came from a chart expert that's also a huge MJ floon on another forum dedicated to sales. It's all archived. All these 750 million claims for Michael, 1 billion for Elvis, 1 billion for the Beatles are all ridiculous and total baloney. In Jackson's case, it originated from a press release when he got that purchased World Music Award for Thriller selling 104 million copies even though Sony confirmed 60 million when they re-released the record two years later in 2008.
The Beatles defeat MJ in every single market around the globe except those in Africa where they still managed to find success.
Elvis, on the other hand, has only managed to outsell MJ in the U.S., U.K., and maybe a few Scandinavian markets. Michael has outsold him everywhere else, by good margins.
And in terms of controversy, so what?
I never really understood or grasped the Beatles' impact until I truly educated myself on the matter. What they achieved in less than a decade is truly astonishing. Go read up on it.
I made the mistake of not looking into it myself. Now that I have, to deny that they had any impact is like saying you don't like to breathe.
The Beatles are MUCH MUCH bigger than Michael. It's not even up for debate.
The Beatles have sold at least 350 million albums worldwide. Do you know who number 2 is?
MJ... with about 200 million before he died. I guess its shot up to about 230 now.
Do you know how large a gap that is? He will never ever catch up. He was never going to. You're attacking the wrong people here. Elvis is the one who isn't as big they make him out to be. The Beatles are a juggernaut, both in fame and sales full stop. They're big everywhere- not just in the US/UK. Look it up. The Beatles are every bit as international as Michael was. A group that broke up 40 years ago are the best selling group in the last decade. If that's not proof enough, then I don't know what is.
If u want to argue, do it with with Madonna, Prince, and Elvis fans. You can win those arguments easily.
Don't come at The Beatles.
I already explained it, genius. If you don't care to read it then that's on you. You keep speaking on "sales". Sales shmales. When it comes down to icon status and who STILL TO THIS DAY has everyone from babies to senior citizens emulating him and knowing his songs, it is Michael Jackson who takes the crown, NOT the Beatles. As I said before, Michael Jackson is known from the most ghetto of ghettos to the richest parts of the world, and everywhere in between. You'd be hard pressed to find a kid from the inner cities knowing a "Yellow Submarine" from a "She Loves You", but ask him about "Billie Jean" and he'll be humming that famous bass line in a heartbeat. Rich people, poor people, black, white, young, old, foreign and domestic know who Michael Jackson is. His fame crosses gender lines, color lines, and social and economic lines. THAT is the mark of a true pop icon--not whether or not they've sold 350 million records. And anyway, since you love talking about sales so much, "Thriller" ALONE sold about half that, and that's just one of his albums.
You can't just make assumptions like that. Paul, John, and them are known to have quite the following as well. And if you think I'm trying to knock Michael I'm not, because I personally prefer him to the Beatles. Michael is the most popular and successful individual performer in history who shits on Elvis but still ranks second to the Fab Four.
And sales receipts often show how prevalent something is in society. Don't act like they don't matter.
...and Thriller is not at 100 million, 120 million, etc. Cut the nonsense.
I already explained it, genius. If you don't care to read it then that's on you. You keep speaking on "sales". Sales shmales. When it comes down to icon status and who STILL TO THIS DAY has everyone from babies to senior citizens emulating him and knowing his songs, it is Michael Jackson who takes the crown, NOT the Beatles. As I said before, Michael Jackson is known from the most ghetto of ghettos to the richest parts of the world, and everywhere in between. You'd be hard pressed to find a kid from the inner cities knowing a "Yellow Submarine" from a "She Loves You", but ask him about "Billie Jean" and he'll be humming that famous bass line in a heartbeat. Rich people, poor people, black, white, young, old, foreign and domestic know who Michael Jackson is. His fame crosses gender lines, color lines, and social and economic lines. THAT is the mark of a true pop icon--not whether or not they've sold 350 million records. And anyway, since you love talking about sales so much, "Thriller" ALONE sold about half that, and that's just one of his albums.
You can't just make assumptions like that. Paul, John, and them are known to have quite the following as well. And if you think I'm trying to knock Michael I'm not, because I personally prefer him to the Beatles. Michael is the most popular and successful individual performer in history who shits on Elvis but still ranks second to the Fab Four.
And sales receipts often show how prevalent something is in society. Don't act like they don't matter.
...and Thriller is not at 100 million, 120 million, etc. Cut the nonsense.
It's not nonsense or assumptions, just facts. I have literally seen children as small as three years old emulating Michael and singing his songs. I have a small cousin who just about flips out whenever an MJ video comes on TV. A co-worker has told me of her toddler-aged nephew who will not wear anything else besides an outfit that resembles something Michael would have worn in the '80s, and will throw a tantrum if his parents try to make him wear something else. And I think it goes without saying that, if polled, most people from, say, the inner city for instance, would know an MJ song before a Beatles song. And he's also known in upper-echelon circles as well. The Beatles are a phenomenon--this is true. But their phenomena is just not as widespread as Michael's. Again, they may have sold more records than Michael, but their impact on culture, fashion, trends, and the pop culture landscape in general comes second to him. That is why there is not a young man in the music industry who performs pop/RnB and dances that is NOT compared to him. That is why his music is still heavily sampled and remade to this day. That is why you cannot go a Halloween without seeing "Thriller" on the TV and hearing it on the radio. That is why you still have grown men and women crying over him (would Paul or Ringo still illicit that kind of emotion today if they, say, played a gig somewhere?). It's been nearly two years after his death, and his IMDB board is still flooded with up-to-the-minute posts. He is the epitome of a pop culture icon.
^^You may have seen this kind of emotional fan gush over the Beatles during their phenomenal "British Invasion", but nowadays? Nah.
No one in this thread can sit here and dictate whose reach is far bigger or whatever. There is no way to even measure this. No one is here is no expert on worldwide pop culture whatsoever. All you know is what is familiar in your world and that's it. This is also why the author of that article was an imbecile.
In terms of music sales it is like this: Yes, The Beatles have way outsold MJ, BUT MJ sells more per album than the Beatles. More than half of MJ's solo discography w/Sony have sold 20+ million albums each. The Beatles, otoh, are still really big sellers as well and they have a lot of stuff released. A lot. It's generally known that 2/3's of their sales come from the US and Europe. Only 1/3 of MJ's sales come from the US. Also, we are comparing the sales of a really popular act who started in the 60s with another popular act who JUST died.
In terms of impact the Beatles may have had a bigger impact on music, but MJ made an even larger impact on the music video. Both of them have had a huge impact on society and culture. The degree of this impact may depend on the area and/or culture, but they are both huge and their impact can not even be measured.
trueiopian said:
1 (2000) sold 31 million copies worldwide and Invincible (2001) sold 7 million.
I know people just want to look at sales... its hilarious to me.. when the answer is so obvious....
its like people are now just arguing for the fun of it...
They way half the people on this forum are MJ fans, and have mj avatars, not just this site but all over forums and websites, should tell you who has the biggest pop culture impact....
I like Michael Jackson but I'm no huge fan of his. However, I have never seen anyone more widespread than Michael Jackson. He's even got Elvis beat. Both Elvis and The Beatles are absolutely huge giants but Michael Jackson was and still is a giant among every single race, every single age group ranging from toddlers to senior citizens, and every single class of people.
I've never seen anything like it. I got into him as a teenager but I noticed through the years that small children were watching and loving Michael Jackson like he was their Barney or Big Bird or something. Hell, that became one of my turnoffs with him later because it sure as hell ain't cool to like something that kids like. Also, parents and grandparents loved him as well. That was another turnoff for me too because it's also not cool to like what old folks like either. Remember, Elvis and The Beatles were huge too but parents and grandparents hated them.
And there is no way The Beatles are more widespread than Michael Jackson. Millions of black people love Michael Jackson. I know very few black people that like even one song from The Beatles. You can't be more widespread than Michael Jackson unless you have every single race and age group on the planet going crazy over you and neither The Beatles nor Elvis did. Michael lost a lot of his popularity when he started looking and acting like a loony toon but just look at how huge it was when he died. It's like he was just as popular as he was during the "Thriller" era all over again. It was the top story on every newscast and 24 hour news channels were broadcasting every single aspect of his death 24 hours a day for damn near an entire month and this is during the cable era where there are mulitiple news channels but every single one of them (well I don't know about the FOX news channel which has always been a racist ass channel) but all the others were broadcastng it 24/7. Poor Farrah (who I absolutely loved in the 1970s) only got about five minutes of coverage but that just goes to show how huge he was.
Hell, even the org still has a damn sticky that has been going on since his death. What's it now....Part 153 or something?
I like Michael Jackson but I'm no huge fan of his. However, I have never seen anyone more widespread than Michael Jackson. He's even got Elvis beat. Both Elvis and The Beatles are absolutely huge giants but Michael Jackson was and still is a giant among every single race, every single age group ranging from toddlers to senior citizens, and every single class of people.
I've never seen anything like it. I got into him as a teenager but I noticed through the years that small children were watching and loving Michael Jackson like he was their Barney or Big Bird or something. Hell, that became one of my turnoffs with him later because it sure as hell ain't cool to like something that kids like. Also, parents and grandparents loved him as well. That was another turnoff for me too because it's also not cool to like what old folks like either. Remember, Elvis and The Beatles were huge too but parents and grandparents hated them.
And there is no way The Beatles are more widespread than Michael Jackson. Millions of black people love Michael Jackson. I know very few black people that like even one song from The Beatles. You can't be more widespread than Michael Jackson unless you have every single race and age group on the planet going crazy over you and neither The Beatles nor Elvis did. Michael lost a lot of his popularity when he started looking and acting like a loony toon but just look at how huge it was when he died. It's like he was just as popular as he was during the "Thriller" era all over again. It was the top story on every newscast and 24 hour news channels were broadcasting every single aspect of his death 24 hours a day for damn near an entire month and this is during the cable era where there are mulitiple news channels but every single one of them (well I don't know about the FOX news channel which has always been a racist ass channel) but all the others were broadcastng it 24/7. Poor Farrah (who I absolutely loved in the 1970s) only got about five minutes of coverage but that just goes to show how huge he was.
Hell, even the org still has a damn sticky that has been going on since his death. What's it now....Part 153 or something?
The Beatles are far widespread and respected artists than MJ ever was. But MJ is def. a bigger pop culture icon than them. That's the way I see it.
You guys don't even know, lol. I have a few friends in school who have actually told me that they thought that Michael introduced music to the world all because they saw my Beatles book and wondered who they were after I said that they were the greatest band of all time.
Yes because, your comparisons of a studio album that a musical act abandoned to a greatest hits album that actually made it to CD for the first time ever totally made sense and weren't poorly thought out at all.
Yes because, your comparisons of a studio album that a musical act abandoned to a greatest hits album that actually made it to CD for the first time ever totally made sense and weren't poorly thought out at all.
Abandoned? Invincible was promoted - $25 million budget for promotion. I was comparing the two because they were released around the same time... I don't see how it's poorly thought out. I think you're just upset.
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y'all need to stop! lol
I understand your an Jackson advocate and all but geez 
