TotalAlisa said:

purplesweat said:

I hate this mentality. "I don't like them, or have not listened to them/read it/whatever in depth, so therefore their legacy and iconic impact is invalid."

why you telling me this... Like I give a damn.... continue to hate and get irritated... it makes me laugh

[Edited 1/25/11 2:31am]

waste of energy edit

[Edited 1/25/11 6:08am]

trueiopian said:

They were probably born in the 00's then.

no

i have news for you

the world doesn't revolve around the USA alone

Michael Jordan may be a pop icon there but he's not anywhere else

[Edited 1/25/11 6:09am]

Anyone old enough to remember 2002 must have lived in a cave if they had never heard of Michael Jackson. I've known who he was since 6 years old but 2002 was the year I remember him being everywhere for some reason and which was the reason I became a fan. I cant even fathom anyone older than 13 not knowing who he is (with exceptions for people living in remote villages of course).

I think sports figures are much more debatable as they dont tend to have as much longevity with the public as pop stars and movie stars do. People from different eras will say different sports stars are superior in icon status. And young people arent as interested in political figures so thats a huge demographic that is less likely to know politicians. I think fictional characters are the only ones that rival real celebrities for how well known they are.

Michael Jackson CLEARLY belongs at the top of any list concerning pop culture icons. He is the only one who is perennially emulated by young and old alike. Whether you love him or not, I'd venture to say that you'd be hard pressed to go anywhere in the world and not have someone be familiar with him. Everyone from 3 year-old children to 90-year old adults know who he is. He is famous on every corner of the planet. He's admired and known from the ghettos to the suburbs, and everywhere in between. His mark in the music industry endures to this day.

SEANMAN said:

Michael Jackson CLEARLY belongs at the top of any list concerning pop culture icons. He is the only one who is perennially emulated by young and old alike. Whether you love him or not, I'd venture to say that you'd be hard pressed to go anywhere in the world and not have someone be familiar with him. Everyone from 3 year-old children to 90-year old adults know who he is. He is famous on every corner of the planet. He's admired and known from the ghettos to the suburbs, and everywhere in between. His mark in the music industry endures to this day.

Videos and wack ass dance moves......u are correct.

Graycap23 said:

SEANMAN said:

Michael Jackson CLEARLY belongs at the top of any list concerning pop culture icons. He is the only one who is perennially emulated by young and old alike. Whether you love him or not, I'd venture to say that you'd be hard pressed to go anywhere in the world and not have someone be familiar with him. Everyone from 3 year-old children to 90-year old adults know who he is. He is famous on every corner of the planet. He's admired and known from the ghettos to the suburbs, and everywhere in between. His mark in the music industry endures to this day.

Videos and wack ass dance moves......u are correct.

Wow, harsh much?

SEANMAN said:

Graycap23 said:

Videos and wack ass dance moves......u are correct.

Wow, harsh much?

It certainly is NOT 4 actual music.

Graycap23 said:

SEANMAN said:

Wow, harsh much?

It certainly is NOT 4 actual music.

Really? Michael Jackson's music is basically the definitive soundtrack of the '80s. His albums have set records that no one can or will break. His music is constantly sampled and remade.

SEANMAN said:

Graycap23 said:

It certainly is NOT 4 actual music.

Really? Michael Jackson's music is basically the definitive soundtrack of the '80s. His albums have set records that no one can or will break. His music is constantly sampled and remade.

That's it. And his videos are not THAT popular anymore. I'm sure that any random guy/gal of the '00s just knows the videos of Thriller, Smooth Criminal and perhaps Beat It.

On the other hand, his songs are still insanely popular:

I Want You Back

ABC

I'll Be There

Billie Jean

Beat It

Thriller

Bad

Smooth Criminal

Man in the Mirror

Black or White

Heal the World

You Are Not Alone

Earth Song

and even You Rock My World

purplesweat said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't get the hype of the Harry Potter phenomenon myself. And apparently if you see spoilers from the recent film, some fans losing their mind over a naked Harry and Hermoine making out or something. It's one confusing phenomenon to me lol but everybody loves those kids. I admit I'm attracted to Daniel Radcliffe (and Rupert Grint) but that's as far as I'll go to liking Harry Potter lol

Have you even read the books? The writing is unbelievably good. I seriously hope you're not basing your opinion on the films, the films are absolutely awful and NOT an accurate representation of the characters. They're pretty visuals, nothing more.

You wanna question kids fave book choices, question Twilight. THAT success is deplorable. Check out this tumblr, even at the core of the author's grammar skills, Twilight is terrible: http://reasoningwithvampi...umblr.com/

Having said that, HP or Twilight are not yet as iconic as LOTR, although there was one time when the only book printed more than HP was the Bible.

Twilight sucks.

purplesweat said:

Timmy84 said:

I don't get the hype of the Harry Potter phenomenon myself. And apparently if you see spoilers from the recent film, some fans losing their mind over a naked Harry and Hermoine making out or something. It's one confusing phenomenon to me lol but everybody loves those kids. I admit I'm attracted to Daniel Radcliffe (and Rupert Grint) but that's as far as I'll go to liking Harry Potter lol

Have you even read the books? The writing is unbelievably good. I seriously hope you're not basing your opinion on the films, the films are absolutely awful and NOT an accurate representation of the characters. They're pretty visuals, nothing more.

You wanna question kids fave book choices, question Twilight. THAT success is deplorable. Check out this tumblr, even at the core of the author's grammar skills, Twilight is terrible: http://reasoningwithvampi...umblr.com/

Having said that, HP or Twilight are not yet as iconic as LOTR, although there was one time when the only book printed more than HP was the Bible.

Yes it is.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I find bewildering that in EVERY freakin list, Elvis has to be NUMBER One. ...when in fact he is not widely known in the middle east , majority parts of africa , and some parts of europe , why he has to be number one on every list when he in fact someone else deserves that spot ?

Mockery

...................................

[Edited 1/25/11 11:41am]

Graycap23 said:

SEANMAN said:

Michael Jackson CLEARLY belongs at the top of any list concerning pop culture icons. He is the only one who is perennially emulated by young and old alike. Whether you love him or not, I'd venture to say that you'd be hard pressed to go anywhere in the world and not have someone be familiar with him. Everyone from 3 year-old children to 90-year old adults know who he is. He is famous on every corner of the planet. He's admired and known from the ghettos to the suburbs, and everywhere in between. His mark in the music industry endures to this day.

Videos and wack ass dance moves......u are correct.

I know you're mad, but I guess you have to deal with it , MJ destroyed everyone...

musicjunky318 said:

The Beatles are possibly the only people that stand in the way of Michael Jackson. But he's bigger than Elvis on an international level, and I have the receipts to prove it as far as sales figures. The only place where Presley outsold Jackson was here in the states and in the U.K. Every other area of the world in any corner you name Michael eclipses him in fame and recognition.

The Beatles, however, still most likely reign supreme. You can't discredit them at all and no one has outsold them. No one.

Sorry to burst your bubble, even tho I'm a huge beatles fan, MJ destroyed them Globaly, Give credit when credit is due , NO one reached MJ on international level....Not even the beatles....

seeingvoices12 said:

Graycap23 said:

Videos and wack ass dance moves......u are correct.

I know you're mad, but I guess you have to deal with it , MJ destroyed everyone...

As an Icon? I may tend 2 agree with u.

Personally I'd pick Bruce Lee but I think u might be correct.

Graycap23 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

I know you're mad, but I guess you have to deal with it , MJ destroyed everyone...

As an Icon? I may tend 2 agree with u.

Personally I'd pick Bruce Lee but I think u might be correct.

It's his rare talent what Made MJ , He is an International icon.

seeingvoices12 said:

Graycap23 said:

As an Icon? I may tend 2 agree with u.

Personally I'd pick Bruce Lee but I think u might be correct.

It's his rare talent what Made MJ , He is an International icon.

No argument here............Mj was a beast before he went off the rails.

Graycap23 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

It's his rare talent what Made MJ , He is an International icon.

No argument here............Mj was a beast before the media made me believe he went off the rails.

Fixed.

purplesweat said:

Graycap23 said:

No argument here............Mj was a beast before the media made me believe he went off the rails.

Fixed.

The media made his face look like that?

I pretty much agree with the list. Remember, the list is for the past 50 years, not 20 years. I just don't agree with the order they are placed. I agree Elvis should be right up there at either number 1 or number 2. I just don't know which one should be considered number 1, Elvis or Michael Jackson. I think Madonna deserves to be on the list also just not placed as high up as she is. I think The Beatles should have been number 3. I don't know anything about Paul Newman so I don't have an opinion on him.

I'd have to put Tony Hawk in the top 10 list.

The Simpsons - the show's been on for over 20 years and got the ball rolling on cartoons for adults.

Al Pacino as Scarface. There's no debating this.

Bruce Lee's estate in movie posters alone makes some serious cash.

Ozzy Osbourne. He went from one of the "Prince of Darkness" to become a pop culture icon and get the ball rolling on celebrities letting cameras in their home. That's pretty significant, and Sharon and Kelly have become stars from it.

KISS - say what you will about Gene $immon$, they've had a lot of success in marketing themselves and influenced a LOT of kids into playing an instrument, prob. as many as The Beatles had impacted in 1964. Whether it's Tupac standing with them, or Family Guy referencing them, people who don't know their music, recognize KISS.

I agree with Ali (the Will Smith brought back renewed interest, and "When We Were Kings" is one of the best documentaries ever made), and I'll add Evel Kenevel to the pop culture icon list.

William Shatner in "Star Trek". It's possible that if it wasn't for that show, there wouldn't have been interest for people going into science and IT. And you have to thank Lucille Ball for putting the show on the air. She's also a pop culture icon, and for some people, would've been on the list.

Beatles vs Michael Jackson? Lennon's been iconic for decades, and part of that has to do with how he died.

You can debate being a fan of Michael's and say he's had the most impact in pop culture, but to say everyone recognizes him of all ages? Most kids just load and dump music into their ipod, and I doubt "This is It" is of any interest to a 5 year old. What's current is what is of interest to a kid, or if it's a song in some movie or favorite TV show of theirs.

The Three Stooges and Little Rascals might predate TV, but it's the reruns on TV that make them pop culture icons of the past 50 years.

The Monkees - they paid homage to The Beatles (and were friends of theirs), they had a hit TV series where kids bought a ton of stuff, they had a ton of #1 hits, a LOT of songwriters started off writing for them, Jimi Hendrix did his first US tour opening for them.... but the movie "Head" put the wheels in motion for "Easy Rider" to be made (some b-movie actor named Jack Nicholson wrote it). And that movie is always mentioned as being a gamechanger in how movies were made, movies became more edgy and real. And Michael Nesmith was one of the people who produced a show for Nickelodeon called "Pop Clips", and out of that Warner execs (essentially the same people Prince worked for) decided to come up with a 24 hour version of it called MTV. He also created long form music videos, something Michael Jackson would do with a bigger budget. As a musician, he helped create country rock at the same time Gram Parsons did, out of which has continued to be one of the most successful genres of music.

Spongebob Squarepants is a pop culture icon that appeals to children and adults, and quirky enough to have the Hoff and Flaming Lips contribute.

A great actor like Paul Newman - I consider him iconic, but not a pop culture icon, except when it comes to salad dressing. I think the more people discover his old movies, he might be like Audrey Hepburn. She's become a pop culture icon over the past decade, but when she was alive, she was kind of like Angelina Jolie doing work for the UN and raising awareness.

Royal families are also pop culture icons, in Diana's case it was also because she liked rock and roll and wasn't uptight. She was friends with Elton and Gianni Versace, towards the end she had a tarnished image (although nowhere near Sarah), but still drew the attention of the paparazzi. I also think her death made people target how far the paparazzi should be going to get a photo.

Elvis might be the king of rock and roll and people continue to visit Graceland, but I also think he has different degrees of legacy, half of it is as a dynamic performer who brought R&B and country into the homes of millions, had movie star looks, but also represents the tragic side of fame, and when Michael died, they made the comparisons to Elvis' death, because they were pretty similar, except Elvis was dead when they found him.

Michael and Madonna have MTV to thank for their success. When "Thriller" first came out, it was a hit with the R&B fans, but "Motown 25" was what really made things take off. You had different generations of fans watching that show, seeing old and new paying tribute to the label, and seeing Michael roll through those songs from his childhood and come out on his own. Prob. one of the biggest moments in pop culture history, and might not have made "Thriller" had it not been for that appearance. Keeping in mind he was no longer with Motown when he did that...

But who made more money, Prince from "Purple Rain" because he wrote all the songs and produced it, or Michael Jackson's "Thriller" where he only wrote a few songs but sold hundreds of millions of copies? I think Prince during the "Purple Rain" era came out ahead, he was the bandleader for the tour, sold a lot of merchandise, and Michael had Don King and his brothers to split profits with on the Victory tour, which was pretty much the "Thriller tour".

James Bond has a 55-60 year history, if you're counting Ian Fleming's books in with the movie franchise, and also all the tie ins with high end watches and cars, but Harry Potter had a huge impact on the literary world. Stephen King has acknowledged it. Neil Gaiman had the potential to go after Jo Rowling because the main character resembled one he came up with (Books of Magic, which predates Harry Potter by 5 years). Which might be why Dave McKean, who works with Gaiman, wound up coming up with some things for a couple of the Harry Potter movies. He also decided not to take her to court because what she did to get kids reading was a bigger deal.

JoeTyler said:

and Frankie's peak were the '40s and '50s

True, but remember a lot of the variety shows in the 1970s? A lot of them weren't the typical pop/rock or R&B/funk type stuff that was on the radio. Most of them were singing Frank Sinatra type songs and the type of songs that weren't on the radio at the time. Remember, variety shows in the 1970s were huge and a lot of older people loved them. The 1970s media didn't just cater to the young like it does today. Even on into the 1980s, "Saturday Night Live" was doing skits on Frank Sinatra. His peak may have been decades earlier but he definately made a lasting impact.

this list is for the last 50 YEARS. Sorry, but people like Sinatra, M.Monroe, K.Hepburn, Churchill, James Dean, Bogart etc, belong to the Past 60/70 years ...

I never got into most of those people but I have heard their names repeatedly on television my entire life, especially when I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s. Marilyn Monroe made a lasting impact to this very day. She's like an icon with a lot of gay people. Also, people like Madonna and Anna Nicole Smith had eras where they damn near looked just like her. I see her as a huge lasting influence on society also after her peak.

seeingvoices12 said:

musicjunky318 said:

The Beatles are possibly the only people that stand in the way of Michael Jackson. But he's bigger than Elvis on an international level, and I have the receipts to prove it as far as sales figures. The only place where Presley outsold Jackson was here in the states and in the U.K. Every other area of the world in any corner you name Michael eclipses him in fame and recognition.

The Beatles, however, still most likely reign supreme. You can't discredit them at all and no one has outsold them. No one.

Sorry to burst your bubble, even tho I'm a huge beatles fan, MJ destroyed them Globaly, Give credit when credit is due , NO one reached MJ on international level....Not even the beatles....

No he did not. And that's coming from someone who'll take Michael Jackson over the Beatles any day of the week.

It's common knowledge that the Beatles are the most popular act in history. South Africa is the only noticeable music market where Michael is bigger. They've outsold him pretty much everywhere else.

Why isn't Bob Marley on the list?

Krytonite said:

Why isn't Bob Marley on the list?

He's not that big of a pop culture icon...

vainandy said:

JoeTyler said:

and Frankie's peak were the '40s and '50s

True, but remember a lot of the variety shows in the 1970s? A lot of them weren't the typical pop/rock or R&B/funk type stuff that was on the radio. Most of them were singing Frank Sinatra type songs and the type of songs that weren't on the radio at the time. Remember, variety shows in the 1970s were huge and a lot of older people loved them. The 1970s media didn't just cater to the young like it does today. Even on into the 1980s, "Saturday Night Live" was doing skits on Frank Sinatra. His peak may have been decades earlier but he definately made a lasting impact.

this list is for the last 50 YEARS. Sorry, but people like Sinatra, M.Monroe, K.Hepburn, Churchill, James Dean, Bogart etc, belong to the Past 60/70 years ...

I never got into most of those people but I have heard their names repeatedly on television my entire life, especially when I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s. Marilyn Monroe made a lasting impact to this very day. She's like an icon with a lot of gay people. Also, people like Madonna and Anna Nicole Smith had eras where they damn near looked just like her. I see her as a huge lasting influence on society also after her peak.

I don't remember that 70s show but I guess you're right, I was a kid in the early 80's and I already knew him and 5 or even 10 of his songs.

And yeah, Madonna and ANS basically copied Monroe's style so i pretty much agree. I just think that Madonna has proven to be even more popular than Monroe...

Lennon and McCartney's icon status and prolific songwriting aside, if we're talking about global pop icon status, MJ comes out ahead of the Beatles. Go to any inner city neighborhood and ask someone to sing an MJ song word for word, then do the same in a wealthy neighborhood, and I'm sure it could be done. I'm not so sure about the Beatles. Do you see little children dressing up as and emulating The Beatles? Nope. Michael Jackson's fame crosses color lines, social status lines, age brackets and whatever else you can think of. He is a global phenomenon. From the far reaches of any foreign country to the most backwoods town in Anywhere USA, people know who he is. We've never seen the likes of that kind of fame in our lifetime, and I really don't think anyone will ever be able to duplicate it.

musicjunky318 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, even tho I'm a huge beatles fan, MJ destroyed them Globaly, Give credit when credit is due , NO one reached MJ on international level....Not even the beatles....

No he did not. And that's coming from someone who'll take Michael Jackson over the Beatles any day of the week.

It's common knowledge that the Beatles are the most popular act in history. South Africa is the only noticeable music market where Michael is bigger. They've outsold him pretty much everywhere else.

They will never reach him globaly:-? and read SeanMan's post....

posted by SeanMan

Graycap23 said:

purplesweat said:

Fixed.

The media made his face look like that?

Since when looks do matter when it comes to real talent? If I wanted to give the looks a huge attention , I wouldn't listen to Many artists , including your fav.

musicjunky318 said:

seeingvoices12 said:

Sorry to burst your bubble, even tho I'm a huge beatles fan, MJ destroyed them Globaly, Give credit when credit is due , NO one reached MJ on international level....Not even the beatles....

No he did not. And that's coming from someone who'll take Michael Jackson over the Beatles any day of the week.

It's common knowledge that the Beatles are the most popular act in history. South Africa is the only noticeable music market where Michael is bigger. They've outsold him pretty much everywhere else.

It's not just about "outselling". It's about the impression or stamp that one act has made on the world. Michael Jackson's glitter glove, red jacket, curly hair, top hat, white socks and loafers are in and of themselves iconic. His songs and dancing are just the icing on top of the cake.

[Edited 1/26/11 9:50am]