Vendetta1 said:

DesireeNevermind said:

I wasn't hyping it up. I was just making an example.

DesireeNevermind said:

Paris9748430 said:

Yeah, and look at her now. Totally covered, in church every week, preaching to everyone she meets. If she was proud of those images, she wouldn't have completely abandoned and rebuked them even after her medical problems were cured years ago. Please, don't use Vanity as an example, 'cause it's a horrible one.

And I've loved Sade's music and videos ALL of my life, and have never seen any pictures of her nude publicized or on TV. Maybe I missed that, LOL, and it's on the internet now, but regardless, she never dressed like Madonna (and darn sure not like no Vanity) during her prime years.

bellanoche said:

Ok,so I'm this middle age record exec..no nothing about music,nothing about talent..I'm here because my college buddies got me in years ago and I've been able to hang around...I get this young new girl singer that I signed (A&R says I should)..she's cute..she can hold a note..the first album did ok,made us a profit..But I wonder what she looks like underneath them clothes?Okay I'm perving a little but we all wondered about that in the boardroom meetings.Do other men think like we do?..Call the A&R and A&D (artist Development)..change her look..show more skin..I wonder..oops,I mean the public wonders what she has under those baggy pants..pay the payola to the radios to play her spins a little more..payoff billboard and push the soundscans..o yeah let her do some semi-nude photo-ops on some magazines....and when you're done with her,go tell Miley Cyrus to do a show dancing with a stripper pole..- thoughts of a slimy record exec...

SavonOsco said:

Nicely done.

If someone chose to fuck on stage, I probably wouldn't agree with it, but I'm sure to have much more respect if they actually had their own deeply-held reasons that spoke to all kinds of larger truths about artistry that they mostly controlled.

Puppets on strings have always existed, but perhaps now more than ever before in the music industry.

Brendan said:

Thnx..I couldn't word it like I wanted to because I was rushing for work....yes,they're mostly puppets on a string and I was trying to evoke the puppetmaster's point of view..

Paris9748430 said:

Pop music, done right, is a legitimate art form that could and should be taken seriously. It's because performers are so willing to strip down and wiggle their asses instead of hiring a vocal coach or trying their hands at songwriting that it's not.

NDRU said:

I do not like AI but I can respect that point. Contestants aren't allowed to rely on their tits to win, they do have to have at least a modicum of vocal ability. Britney would have been kicked off in the first round of auditions, and for damned good reason.

Vendetta1 said:

You know what I mean. Don't change the subject.

Paris9748430 said:

"Old Coot"? Nice try. I'm 24. I wasn't even born when Vanity 6 were rockin' , and even I know they were the exception. My problem is that these days, acts like that are the rule.

Paris9748430 said:

ACTUALLY



Market studies have shown that people who download the most music also buy the most music.

lastdecember said:

Boybands and the like already got mentioned above. And while it is similar in many ways, it's rarely if ever really the same beast. The difference IMO is that female performers are being sold as the object, while male performers are almost always still being sold as the subject. If the sex object in question is still promoted as the aggressor, as the dominant in a traditional hetero-normative gender dynamic (even if it is in the "cute harmless boy" model) then it's still not the same thing.


Let's take a look at the boyband model, for an example:

The Cute One, or The Baby: Young, sweet, innocent, helpless, non-threatening. You want to Mommy him. His role in the group is to appeal to the youngest of young teen girl fans. (and dirty old men, but that's for another thread. )

The Bad Boy: dangerous, a softened-up model of the bad boys some grown women find attractive. He is untameable. The least likely to be promoted openly as a virgin. In fact, his sexuality is generally played up the most obviously out of any member.

The Boy Next Door. (see also, The Christian, depending on fan demographics) Good-natured sweetheart. The kind of guy you bring home to meet the folks. Explicitly or implicitly marketed as Husband Material.

The Big Brother, or "Dad". Usually the oldest member. Dominant, and has authority. Physically imposing, usually being a big guy. The daddy!Kink practically writes itself with this one.

There are other characters too. The Sweet One, The Ethnic One, (this one's problematic for a whole slew of reasons, but don't think racial sexual stereotypes aren't part of it) The Quiet One,(courtesy of George Harrison. See? The Beatles really did contribute to pop culture in every way) and others. But every single boyband "character" is designed to play into very different, but very, very traditional hetero-normative sex and gender roles.

The Twilight boys can be read the same way as boyband members, as far as this topic goes.
[Edited 12/22/09 10:58am]

This

is the same as this?

meow85 said:

i will say it again meow85 for president
[Edited 12/22/09 12:37pm]

It's not just a case of 'skin' or 'no skin', I don't think. It's the whole "show me how you want it to be" aspect of it - i.e. women just appearing as totally submissive, sexually-available objects of male fantasy. So many times there's even the whole paraphernalia of lap dancing (poles, etc) mixed up in it, which just drives home the point that the women are there to be 'bought'.

The idea of being a pimp became the pinnacle of the dull, chauvinistic image that a whole slew of tired male hip hop artists wanted to portray, and it's almost like the 'Look, I'm sexy' revelations these female singers tend to go through involves casting themselves as the submissive, available feminine object that suits that fantasy.

deebee said:

so sad and so true.

ThreadBare said:

I was the only one here that cited the Chili Peppers nude RS cover and it was an example of how male nudity can NOT be sexy. We all know they're goofballs.

sextonseven said:

true, though I think their shirtless tattooed wild man image is sexy to many--especially around the time Dave Navarro joined

CalhounSq said:

You know most women don't want to see random guys' schlongs. But guys have no problem looking at anonymous tits.

NDRU said:

Which is one reason why I think Dave was all wrong for that band. He was too hot for them.

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

Co-

sextonseven said:

sextonseven said:

Yeah he kind of changed their whole image. I remember seeing the video for Aeroplane and rather than being crazy naked tattooed guys, they were hot macho rock star guys.

But I'm in the minority in that I thought he fit well with them. Apparently (according to Anthony) he went off the deep end, though, all coked out and wearing the glasses & hats that tipped everyone off because "you could only wear them if you're on coke"

Frusciante (who just quit the band) seemed to bring them back from macho rock gods to a more sensitive place, but now we're off topic

NDRU said:

Dave was a much better fit in Jane's Addiction which had a sleazier image. Listening to Jane's first era of albums always gave me the feel that I was listening to some dirty, deviant rock music--more so than the RHCP records that were out at the same time (Mother's Milk, Blood Sugar Sex Magik)

sextonseven said:

true, and he changed the RHCP's sound to harder rock, rather than funk. I liked it, but maybe just because I like his playing.

NDRU said:

Staying OT: When they first announced that Dave was joining the band, I had a hard time visualizing how his style would mesh with theirs. I couldn't see him grooving like John could. Flea and Chad need a guitarist he can play a funky comp over their bottom in addition to ripping a mean solo. I'd never really heard Dave do that.

Then, I saw the video where he and Anthony were kissing, and I KNEW they had gone in a different direction both musically and stylistically - and it DID NOT work for me. I was so happy when he left and John returned.

meow85 said:[quote]

Vendetta1 said:

Something about that pic of Rihianna and Robin Thicke bothers me. It goes back to what this topic is about. There is just rampant oversexualizing, objectifying and disrepecting of women in music - whether its the girls in the videos or the female singers themselves. For example, that video with Ciara and Justin Timberlake was just way over the top. It wasn't sexy to me at all. It looked like a desperate "artist" doing anything for shock value, allowing herself to be treated like a video skank in her own video.

Here it is. It highlights what someoneelse said on this thread about the women emulating strippers and the underlying implications of that.

I think most people are scared of women sexuality. I don't want to turn this into a race discussion but to be specific - black women sexuality. Just an observation.