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Printableerrant said: see, if this was a box set, then I'd agree with you. everything should fairly be represented from an artistic standpoint.
but for something like this... what is clearly meant to be a greatest hits release should be comprised of nothing but the biggest hits. of course when i make my own comps, i'm very anal about following rules, etc., and most GH package compilers don't seem to be as stringent as i am about it. 
hell, after hearing "Celebration" I'm not even thrilled that there's new material on there cluttering up what ought to be a career-defining hits package if this is going to be the definitive collection for the next god-knows-how long of her classic material with WB. neither of her previous best of's is very satisfying anyway, between the remixes on TIC and the stuff left off of GHV2 because of STR. and this is really the last shot for a long time to finally get it right. but as i've said before, i'll listen to the album as it is release like, maybe once, and just plunder it for high quality digital copies of the old single edits and mixes for my own comp
if only i weren't so OCD about it. i might actually be able to sit down and listen to compilation albums without feeling the need to fiddle with and better them  I see your point here as well, but I don't think any label is actually following those strict rules when it comes to a GH. Ignoring artists who make GH's after 2 albums and only a handful of actual hits (with putting album track or some other stuff to fill it up), the only "perfect" GH's come when it's closing a very successful period, or the catalog of the artist is not big enough to leave out proper hits. I'm thinking of something like ABBA Gold here, or Whitney's GH, or even Britney's compilation, Shania's, and of course TIC... Madonna has to compile 27 years into 34 tracks (out of like 70 singles!), and I do believe that just because a song topped the Hot 100 for a week in 1992, it won't be a definite lock for a GH released 17 years later, if that artist never slowed down and is still very successful in 2009. In fact, Madonna's relevance in Europe is probably bigger in this decade than in the 90s, even her "flops" gained some modest success in some countries, like "Miles Away" hit #11 in Germany and #10 in Netherlands, while some of her later Erotica or BS singles failed to chart in some countries. Even "Hollywood" was far from a disaster in Europe. And both the artist and the label would want to point out that she's STILL going on and actively releasing at least decent sized hits, instead of just compiling her technical chart hits from a decade ago. I just think Madonna does have the luxury of ignoring some of her hit singles that are forgotten now and push her more recent work which is not treated the same way as her past, because radio decided that. Not many could do this. Because in fact when you're being strict about the GH, you're just following what radio allowed Madonna to have as a hit, and that includes several safe ballads, not surprisingly. And my favourite example is MJ's Number Ones, which includes an album track from Invincible. I think after that, even the excuse of "Hollywood" hitting #1 on the Hot Dance chart is less of a stretch.  | |
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CrozzaUK said: Burning up is on there because its Guy Oseary's favourite song.
Nope, she put it on there because she knew I wouldn't buy it otherwise. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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LiveToTell86 said: errant said: see, if this was a box set, then I'd agree with you. everything should fairly be represented from an artistic standpoint.
but for something like this... what is clearly meant to be a greatest hits release should be comprised of nothing but the biggest hits. of course when i make my own comps, i'm very anal about following rules, etc., and most GH package compilers don't seem to be as stringent as i am about it.
hell, after hearing "Celebration" I'm not even thrilled that there's new material on there cluttering up what ought to be a career-defining hits package if this is going to be the definitive collection for the next god-knows-how long of her classic material with WB. neither of her previous best of's is very satisfying anyway, between the remixes on TIC and the stuff left off of GHV2 because of STR. and this is really the last shot for a long time to finally get it right. but as i've said before, i'll listen to the album as it is release like, maybe once, and just plunder it for high quality digital copies of the old single edits and mixes for my own comp
if only i weren't so OCD about it. i might actually be able to sit down and listen to compilation albums without feeling the need to fiddle with and better them I see your point here as well, but I don't think any label is actually following those strict rules when it comes to a GH. Ignoring artists who make GH's after 2 albums and only a handful of actual hits (with putting album track or some other stuff to fill it up), the only "perfect" GH's come when it's closing a very successful period, or the catalog of the artist is not big enough to leave out proper hits. I'm thinking of something like ABBA Gold here, or Whitney's GH, or even Britney's compilation, Shania's, and of course TIC... Madonna has to compile 27 years into 34 tracks (out of like 70 singles!), and I do believe that just because a song topped the Hot 100 for a week in 1992, it won't be a definite lock for a GH released 17 years later, if that artist never slowed down and is still very successful in 2009. In fact, Madonna's relevance in Europe is probably bigger in this decade than in the 90s, even her "flops" gained some modest success in some countries, like "Miles Away" hit #11 in Germany and #10 in Netherlands, while some of her later Erotica or BS singles failed to chart in some countries. Even "Hollywood" was far from a disaster in Europe. And both the artist and the label would want to point out that she's STILL going on and actively releasing at least decent sized hits, instead of just compiling her technical chart hits from a decade ago. I just think Madonna does have the luxury of ignoring some of her hit singles that are forgotten now and push her more recent work which is not treated the same way as her past, because radio decided that. Not many could do this. Because in fact when you're being strict about the GH, you're just following what radio allowed Madonna to have as a hit, and that includes several safe ballads, not surprisingly. And my favourite example is MJ's Number Ones, which includes an album track from Invincible. I think after that, even the excuse of "Hollywood" hitting #1 on the Hot Dance chart is less of a stretch. i think there should definitely be 2 versioons of this set, to split the difference. one based on her American hits and one based on her European hits. consdiering how often this is done lately, even on a country-by-country basis for a lot of acts of her charts stature (MJ, Bowie, etc.). anyway, this brings up something I've been meaning to ask. Several of her singles in the US this decade have topped the Sales chart and yet failed to even appear on the Billboard Hot 100, since the single release itself was a dead platform (until downloading came along) and the charts were weighted to give airplay a bigger share of the point totals for charting purposes. in the UK, for example, I know that the chart is based strictly on sales and has a whole bunch of it's own convuluted rules for what's allowed to chart, etc. so, anyway, for my question I'll use Hollywood as an example. in the UK, it charted at #2, based completely on sales. if that were the case in the US, it would have charted at #3, as that is the position it reached on the Hot 100 sales chart. however. in the US, the exposure to this song by a radio audience was extremely low. it is not a song that only Madonna fans know. the public doesn't remember it, if they even know it existed at all, outside of a Gap commercial and the VMA's, though as I said previously, who even remembers Hollywood being a part of them? anyway. my question is... finally.... so in the UK, Hollywood was a #2 hit. but did it get any airplay? does anyone know it? i just wonder when i see that she keeps racking up the #1's and top 5's and top 10's over there, but I wonder if it's like here, where, yeah, it's one of the top selling singles, but nobody's even ever heard of it. this has changed somewhat since iTunes and other digital retailers have become an outlet for "singles" sales. but the American Life singles are from that sort of tricky in between period. anyone from the UK want to tell us if songs like Hollywood and Love Profusion and what-not that charted relatively high, got any more actual attention from radio or exposure to the public than they did in the US? this is really a major problem, perhaps, with how the charts are compiled on both sides of the Atlantic. on the US side, it's mostly about airplay, which can easily be bought, and how many people actually forked over their hard earned money to actually own it is really an afterthought. in the UK, are there tons of singles being sold that no one's ever heard of until they show up in the top 5 on the chart the next week? | |
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LiveToTell86 said: errant said: see, if this was a box set, then I'd agree with you. everything should fairly be represented from an artistic standpoint.
but for something like this... what is clearly meant to be a greatest hits release should be comprised of nothing but the biggest hits. of course when i make my own comps, i'm very anal about following rules, etc., and most GH package compilers don't seem to be as stringent as i am about it.
hell, after hearing "Celebration" I'm not even thrilled that there's new material on there cluttering up what ought to be a career-defining hits package if this is going to be the definitive collection for the next god-knows-how long of her classic material with WB. neither of her previous best of's is very satisfying anyway, between the remixes on TIC and the stuff left off of GHV2 because of STR. and this is really the last shot for a long time to finally get it right. but as i've said before, i'll listen to the album as it is release like, maybe once, and just plunder it for high quality digital copies of the old single edits and mixes for my own comp
if only i weren't so OCD about it. i might actually be able to sit down and listen to compilation albums without feeling the need to fiddle with and better them I see your point here as well, but I don't think any label is actually following those strict rules when it comes to a GH. Ignoring artists who make GH's after 2 albums and only a handful of actual hits (with putting album track or some other stuff to fill it up), the only "perfect" GH's come when it's closing a very successful period, or the catalog of the artist is not big enough to leave out proper hits. I'm thinking of something like ABBA Gold here, or Whitney's GH, or even Britney's compilation, Shania's, and of course TIC... Madonna has to compile 27 years into 34 tracks (out of like 70 singles!), and I do believe that just because a song topped the Hot 100 for a week in 1992, it won't be a definite lock for a GH released 17 years later, if that artist never slowed down and is still very successful in 2009. In fact, Madonna's relevance in Europe is probably bigger in this decade than in the 90s, even her "flops" gained some modest success in some countries, like "Miles Away" hit #11 in Germany and #10 in Netherlands, while some of her later Erotica or BS singles failed to chart in some countries. Even "Hollywood" was far from a disaster in Europe. And both the artist and the label would want to point out that she's STILL going on and actively releasing at least decent sized hits, instead of just compiling her technical chart hits from a decade ago. I just think Madonna does have the luxury of ignoring some of her hit singles that are forgotten now and push her more recent work which is not treated the same way as her past, because radio decided that. Not many could do this. Because in fact when you're being strict about the GH, you're just following what radio allowed Madonna to have as a hit, and that includes several safe ballads, not surprisingly. And my favourite example is MJ's Number Ones, which includes an album track from Invincible. I think after that, even the excuse of "Hollywood" hitting #1 on the Hot Dance chart is less of a stretch. It's total recreating history in a very strange way. Ok, those minor hits prove her relevancy. Representing an album that the public thinks bombed with one single...what does that say? "Oh, you were right?" While Madonna might have some issues with "Erotica" (she seems to both defend it as not being a bomb but also kind of dismiss it because for that difficult period). Two odd single choices to over compensate sucks. The eighties are without a doubt represented well....the nineties I think we could argue aren't. I'm arguing more strongly for "Deeper and Deeper" because I've sort of made my peace with her indifference to TUTBMP (which was included on STR). | |
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errant said: LiveToTell86 said: I see your point here as well, but I don't think any label is actually following those strict rules when it comes to a GH. Ignoring artists who make GH's after 2 albums and only a handful of actual hits (with putting album track or some other stuff to fill it up), the only "perfect" GH's come when it's closing a very successful period, or the catalog of the artist is not big enough to leave out proper hits. I'm thinking of something like ABBA Gold here, or Whitney's GH, or even Britney's compilation, Shania's, and of course TIC... Madonna has to compile 27 years into 34 tracks (out of like 70 singles!), and I do believe that just because a song topped the Hot 100 for a week in 1992, it won't be a definite lock for a GH released 17 years later, if that artist never slowed down and is still very successful in 2009. In fact, Madonna's relevance in Europe is probably bigger in this decade than in the 90s, even her "flops" gained some modest success in some countries, like "Miles Away" hit #11 in Germany and #10 in Netherlands, while some of her later Erotica or BS singles failed to chart in some countries. Even "Hollywood" was far from a disaster in Europe. And both the artist and the label would want to point out that she's STILL going on and actively releasing at least decent sized hits, instead of just compiling her technical chart hits from a decade ago. I just think Madonna does have the luxury of ignoring some of her hit singles that are forgotten now and push her more recent work which is not treated the same way as her past, because radio decided that. Not many could do this. Because in fact when you're being strict about the GH, you're just following what radio allowed Madonna to have as a hit, and that includes several safe ballads, not surprisingly. And my favourite example is MJ's Number Ones, which includes an album track from Invincible. I think after that, even the excuse of "Hollywood" hitting #1 on the Hot Dance chart is less of a stretch. i think there should definitely be 2 versioons of this set, to split the difference. one based on her American hits and one based on her European hits. consdiering how often this is done lately, even on a country-by-country basis for a lot of acts of her charts stature (MJ, Bowie, etc.). anyway, this brings up something I've been meaning to ask. Several of her singles in the US this decade have topped the Sales chart and yet failed to even appear on the Billboard Hot 100, since the single release itself was a dead platform (until downloading came along) and the charts were weighted to give airplay a bigger share of the point totals for charting purposes. in the UK, for example, I know that the chart is based strictly on sales and has a whole bunch of it's own convuluted rules for what's allowed to chart, etc. so, anyway, for my question I'll use Hollywood as an example. in the UK, it charted at #2, based completely on sales. if that were the case in the US, it would have charted at #3, as that is the position it reached on the Hot 100 sales chart. however. in the US, the exposure to this song by a radio audience was extremely low. it is not a song that only Madonna fans know. the public doesn't remember it, if they even know it existed at all, outside of a Gap commercial and the VMA's, though as I said previously, who even remembers Hollywood being a part of them? anyway. my question is... finally.... so in the UK, Hollywood was a #2 hit. but did it get any airplay? does anyone know it? i just wonder when i see that she keeps racking up the #1's and top 5's and top 10's over there, but I wonder if it's like here, where, yeah, it's one of the top selling singles, but nobody's even ever heard of it. this has changed somewhat since iTunes and other digital retailers have become an outlet for "singles" sales. but the American Life singles are from that sort of tricky in between period. anyone from the UK want to tell us if songs like Hollywood and Love Profusion and what-not that charted relatively high, got any more actual attention from radio or exposure to the public than they did in the US? this is really a major problem, perhaps, with how the charts are compiled on both sides of the Atlantic. on the US side, it's mostly about airplay, which can easily be bought, and how many people actually forked over their hard earned money to actually own it is really an afterthought. in the UK, are there tons of singles being sold that no one's ever heard of until they show up in the top 5 on the chart the next week? I'll give you that "Hollywood" was number 3 on the singles chart? The problem with that? It's kind of like saying it was number one on the dance charts! After all, at the time, how many singles were available for purchase. If all were, OK, but at the time (2002), very few singles were being released and Madonna made something of a name for herself at the time (and still does) by making nearly all of her singles available as maxis with remixes. It's a good thing and a not so good thing. So the number 7 placing of a song like "Deeper and Deeper" is more impressive. It hit that mark when Madonna was not doing so hot with fans and the media and it was in competition with EVERYTHING. | |
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It's interesting the way some greatest hits packages are put together.Donna Summer's 'On The Radio' 2-LP set contains a few songs ("Our Love","I Remember Yestrday") that weren't even released as singles.Likewise,"Sunset People" wasn't released as a single either,at least not here in the States.I think,in some cases,you can "bend the rules" a bit Artists sometimes pick their own personal favorites,regardless of chart status.That is certainly the case with "Miles Away". | |
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SoulAlive said: It's interesting the way some greatest hits packages are put together.Donna Summer's 'On The Radio' 2-LP set contains a few songs ("Our Love","I Remember Yestrday") that weren't even released as singles.Likewise,"Sunset People" wasn't released as a single either,at least not here in the States.I think,in some cases,you can "bend the rules" a bit
Artists sometimes pick their own personal favorites,regardless of chart status.That is certainly the case with "Miles Away"."Miles Away" bends the rules like a twisty straw! | |
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VinnyM27 said: SoulAlive said: It's interesting the way some greatest hits packages are put together.Donna Summer's 'On The Radio' 2-LP set contains a few songs ("Our Love","I Remember Yestrday") that weren't even released as singles.Likewise,"Sunset People" wasn't released as a single either,at least not here in the States.I think,in some cases,you can "bend the rules" a bit
Artists sometimes pick their own personal favorites,regardless of chart status.That is certainly the case with "Miles Away"."Miles Away" bends the rules like a twisty straw! nuh uh, dude. Miles Away is one of those 34 tracks that change th world, man!  | |
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LiveToTell86 said: VinnyM27 said: No offense, but I hope you're wrong about nearly everything! TIC "Into the Groove"? We never had a chance to have the original on a Madonna and radio plays the original (although maybe some confused stations picked up the TIC version for two seconds). She'll really piss people off if that's the case.
As for the tracklisting, I believe they've already posted tracklisting for "Celebration" and have been proved wrong (including posting the one that excluded "Live To Tell"?). Might have been another place. ITG is just my guess lol, I just have the impression that Madonna finds the TIC versions more definitive than album versions. "Express Yourself" is the clear example, on iTunes, the album version is not even available, but the 8 minute long remix is sold as track #2 of Like A Prayer! No, Tribe never posted that tracklist, they are very reliable, they would not risk their reputation. All the other rumoured tracklist were just blog and forum creations. It's the same when the COADF tracklist was starting to leak on fansites and nobody wanted to believe that she'd have another song called "Forbidden Love".
I don't know what the deal is with Erotica requests, but I can't really believe that D&D is such an universal fan fav that would have been a lock. Also, it's very possible of course that they did not like every request, only "Everybody", "Dress You Up", "Who's That Girl" & "Hollywood". OMG Id never noticed that.....that is a travesty. What in the hell is wrong with her and WB - why does everything have to be so bloody half arsed? | |
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I hope they've taken the care to include the 7" single versions of Like A Prayer and Express Yourself. most people wouldn't even notice that they're different than the album versions, but those mixes, to me, are superior and punch them up a bit. | |
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errant said: LiveToTell86 said: I see your point here as well, but I don't think any label is actually following those strict rules when it comes to a GH. Ignoring artists who make GH's after 2 albums and only a handful of actual hits (with putting album track or some other stuff to fill it up), the only "perfect" GH's come when it's closing a very successful period, or the catalog of the artist is not big enough to leave out proper hits. I'm thinking of something like ABBA Gold here, or Whitney's GH, or even Britney's compilation, Shania's, and of course TIC... Madonna has to compile 27 years into 34 tracks (out of like 70 singles!), and I do believe that just because a song topped the Hot 100 for a week in 1992, it won't be a definite lock for a GH released 17 years later, if that artist never slowed down and is still very successful in 2009. In fact, Madonna's relevance in Europe is probably bigger in this decade than in the 90s, even her "flops" gained some modest success in some countries, like "Miles Away" hit #11 in Germany and #10 in Netherlands, while some of her later Erotica or BS singles failed to chart in some countries. Even "Hollywood" was far from a disaster in Europe. And both the artist and the label would want to point out that she's STILL going on and actively releasing at least decent sized hits, instead of just compiling her technical chart hits from a decade ago. I just think Madonna does have the luxury of ignoring some of her hit singles that are forgotten now and push her more recent work which is not treated the same way as her past, because radio decided that. Not many could do this. Because in fact when you're being strict about the GH, you're just following what radio allowed Madonna to have as a hit, and that includes several safe ballads, not surprisingly. And my favourite example is MJ's Number Ones, which includes an album track from Invincible. I think after that, even the excuse of "Hollywood" hitting #1 on the Hot Dance chart is less of a stretch. i think there should definitely be 2 versioons of this set, to split the difference. one based on her American hits and one based on her European hits. consdiering how often this is done lately, even on a country-by-country basis for a lot of acts of her charts stature (MJ, Bowie, etc.). anyway, this brings up something I've been meaning to ask. Several of her singles in the US this decade have topped the Sales chart and yet failed to even appear on the Billboard Hot 100, since the single release itself was a dead platform (until downloading came along) and the charts were weighted to give airplay a bigger share of the point totals for charting purposes. in the UK, for example, I know that the chart is based strictly on sales and has a whole bunch of it's own convuluted rules for what's allowed to chart, etc. so, anyway, for my question I'll use Hollywood as an example. in the UK, it charted at #2, based completely on sales. if that were the case in the US, it would have charted at #3, as that is the position it reached on the Hot 100 sales chart. however. in the US, the exposure to this song by a radio audience was extremely low. it is not a song that only Madonna fans know. the public doesn't remember it, if they even know it existed at all, outside of a Gap commercial and the VMA's, though as I said previously, who even remembers Hollywood being a part of them? anyway. my question is... finally.... so in the UK, Hollywood was a #2 hit. but did it get any airplay? does anyone know it? i just wonder when i see that she keeps racking up the #1's and top 5's and top 10's over there, but I wonder if it's like here, where, yeah, it's one of the top selling singles, but nobody's even ever heard of it. this has changed somewhat since iTunes and other digital retailers have become an outlet for "singles" sales. but the American Life singles are from that sort of tricky in between period. anyone from the UK want to tell us if songs like Hollywood and Love Profusion and what-not that charted relatively high, got any more actual attention from radio or exposure to the public than they did in the US? this is really a major problem, perhaps, with how the charts are compiled on both sides of the Atlantic. on the US side, it's mostly about airplay, which can easily be bought, and how many people actually forked over their hard earned money to actually own it is really an afterthought. in the UK, are there tons of singles being sold that no one's ever heard of until they show up in the top 5 on the chart the next week? I am not really sure but I would assume that it was played but not much. All of the American Life singles except DAD entered high in the charts and dropped really fast. At the time almost all singles were entering at their peak position in the UK the difference between a bigger and smaller hit was how fast or slow they would drop. Personally I do not find the Billboard charts as fair as the UK charts. Radio airplay should not be part of any Top 40 list because it is not sales. Radio airplay affects the sales directly by promoting certain songs anyway, so what's the point of it actually counting on a Top 40? Plus at a time when songs are so cheap to buy single sales (especially digital) are more than enough to show the popularity of a song | |
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My Top 50 Madonna Songs
1) Drowned World/Substitute For Love 2) Like A Prayer 3) Bad Girl 4) Deeper And Deeper 5) Miles Away 6) Into The Groove 7) Live To Tell 8) Frozen 9) Words 10)Ray Of Light 11)Sky Fits Heaven 12)Secret 13)Get Together 14)Causing A Commotion 15)Vogue 16)Jump 17)Heartbeat 18)Express Yourself 19)Papa Don't Preach 20)Angel 21)Music 22)To Have And Not To Hold 23)Keep It Together 24)The Look Of Love 25)Beat Goes On 26)Dress You Up 27)Inside Of Me 28)This Used To Be My Playground 29)Forbidden Love (from Bedtime Stories) 30)Til' Death Do Us Part 31)Give It 2 Me 32)Erotica 33)Like It Or Not 34)Gone 35)Why's It So Hard 36)Let It Will Be 37)La Isla Bonita 38)Where Life Begins 39)Spotlight 40)Ain't No Big Deal 41)Physical Attraction 42)Impressive Instant 43)White Heat 44)Don't You Know (from the 'Pre-Madonna' CD) 45)Like A Virgin 46)Paradise (Not For Me) 47)Think Of Me 48)Time Stood Still 49)Crazy For You 50)Nobody Knows Me | |
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errant said: ehuffnsd said: Love Makes the World Go Round is the worst Madonna track EVER it's Strawberry Fields Forever compared to One More Chance and Hey you. [Edited 8/13/09 20:53pm] So you're saying it's worse? Sorry, couldn't resist. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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errant said: anyway, this brings up something I've been meaning to ask. Several of her singles in the US this decade have topped the Sales chart and yet failed to even appear on the Billboard Hot 100, since the single release itself was a dead platform (until downloading came along) and the charts were weighted to give airplay a bigger share of the point totals for charting purposes.
in the UK, for example, I know that the chart is based strictly on sales and has a whole bunch of it's own convuluted rules for what's allowed to chart, etc. so, anyway, for my question I'll use Hollywood as an example. in the UK, it charted at #2, based completely on sales. if that were the case in the US, it would have charted at #3, as that is the position it reached on the Hot 100 sales chart. however. in the US, the exposure to this song by a radio audience was extremely low. it is not a song that only Madonna fans know. the public doesn't remember it, if they even know it existed at all, outside of a Gap commercial and the VMA's, though as I said previously, who even remembers Hollywood being a part of them? anyway. my question is... finally.... so in the UK, Hollywood was a #2 hit. but did it get any airplay? does anyone know it? i just wonder when i see that she keeps racking up the #1's and top 5's and top 10's over there, but I wonder if it's like here, where, yeah, it's one of the top selling singles, but nobody's even ever heard of it. this has changed somewhat since iTunes and other digital retailers have become an outlet for "singles" sales. but the American Life singles are from that sort of tricky in between period. anyone from the UK want to tell us if songs like Hollywood and Love Profusion and what-not that charted relatively high, got any more actual attention from radio or exposure to the public than they did in the US? this is really a major problem, perhaps, with how the charts are compiled on both sides of the Atlantic. on the US side, it's mostly about airplay, which can easily be bought, and how many people actually forked over their hard earned money to actually own it is really an afterthought. in the UK, are there tons of singles being sold that no one's ever heard of until they show up in the top 5 on the chart the next week? You're actually spot on. Even though the first 2 AL singles went to #2, they are actually among her lowest selling hits, basically at the bottom 10. Back in 2003 the UK charts weren't even taken seriously, because every song debuted high and then freefell. Madonna was the clear example of this, her fanbase guaranteed a top 10 single for almost everything she released, yet many of her top 10 hits barely made an impact and didn't sell well. The Bedtime Stories singles had the same fate as well, along with "You Must Love Me" or "Drowned World" that still went to top 10 but no impact. The fact that 61 out of 67 Madonna singles went to Top 10 in the UK shows this is not exactly an achievement for someone who has a "built in" fanbase. I can't recall the airplay of "Hollywood" from the top of my head, but I know "American Life" only went to #11, compared to all of her lead off singles in the past decade that went top 3 in airplay, it was very poor. I can imagine "Hollywood" being lower than that, so no, in fact not many people knew it when it went to #2 in UK. The thing is, people are so quick to say the EU charts are so "fair" because they are only about sales, but everyone ignores the fact that it's still airplay-driven, because if a song does not get enough play, it won't have much exposure and won't get high on an otherwise sales-only chart. Madonna and a couple of artist are the exception, because they chart by name, anything they release go high in Italy and Spain, and in Canada before the implement of airplay on their chart. Madonna gets tons of airplay in Europe and that's reflected in her sales. Like I said, even her "flop" singles are quite played, reportedly "Hollywood" was the 18th most played song of 2003 in Europe. The UK charts changed in the past 2 years because physical singles are almost completely out of the picture so it's all about iTunes now. Even though "Miles Away" went top 10 in airplay, there was no interest for a 3rd single that had no video and was available for a download for more than 6 months already. | |
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CrozzaUK said: OMG Id never noticed that.....that is a travesty. What in the hell is wrong with her and WB - why does everything have to be so bloody half arsed?
I wouldn't classify this as a Warner fuck-up at all, Madonna decided the album version of EY was irrelevant like 20 years ago. Warner just amended the digital release to offer the more popular version. Personally I disagree with it and even find the Stephen Bray version superior, but this is something that Madonna has to do with. This is why I pretty much doubt several album versions for Celebration. I think Bray will be only represented in production with "Papa Don't Preach". | |
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LiveToTell86 said: CrozzaUK said: OMG Id never noticed that.....that is a travesty. What in the hell is wrong with her and WB - why does everything have to be so bloody half arsed?
I wouldn't classify this as a Warner fuck-up at all, Madonna decided the album version of EY was irrelevant like 20 years ago. Warner just amended the digital release to offer the more popular version. Personally I disagree with it and even find the Stephen Bray version superior, but this is something that Madonna has to do with. This is why I pretty much doubt several album versions for Celebration. I think Bray will be only represented in production with "Papa Don't Preach". I prefer the remix version of "Express Yourself"  That heavy bass and all the other bells and whistles....it kills the album version! Madonna has said that she often likes the remixes better than the album versions and in this case,I gotta agree with her. | |
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jiorjios said: Here is another tracklist this one by Madonna tribe:
CD 1: 01) Hung Up 02) Music 03) Vogue 04) 4 Minutes 05) Holiday 06) Like A Virgin 07) Into The Groove 08) Everybody 09) Like A Prayer 10) Ray Of Light 11) Sorry 12) Express Yourself 13) Open Your Heart 14) Borderline 15) Secret 16) Erotica 17) Justify My Love 18) Celebration CD 2: 01) Dress You Up 02) Material Girl 03) La Isla Bonita 04) Papa Don't Preach 05) Lucky Star 06) Burning Up 07) Crazy For You 08) Who's That Girl 09) Frozen 10) Miles Away 11) Take A Bow 12) Beautiful Stranger 13) Hollywood 14) Die Another Day 15) Don't Tell Me 16) Live To Tell 17) Cherish 18) Revolver Okay guys,now that we know the tracklist,let's try to compile the 1-disc version Here's how I think it should look:
Into The Groove Music Vogue 4 Minutes Holiday Like A Virgin Live To Tell Ray Of Light Like A Prayer Papa Don't Preach Hung Up Beautiful Stranger Die Another Day Borderline Who's That Girl Take A Bow La Isla Bonita Celebration | |
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I'm late, but here's my top 50 anyway
1.Holiday 2.Like a prayer 3.Live to tell 4.Material girl 5.Ray of light 6.Express yourself 7.Vogue 8.Deeper and deeper 9.La isla bonita 10.Take a bow 11.Borderline 12.Into the groove 13.Cherish 14.Frozen 15.Music 16.Lucky star 17.Oh father 18.Who's that girl 19.Rain 20.What it feels like for a girl 21.Secret 22.Human nature 23.Crazy for you 24.Inside of me 25.Causing a commotion 26.I love New York 27.Paradise (not for me) 28.Papa don't preach 29.Angel 30.Beautiful Stranger 31.Impressive instant 32.Hung up 33.Nobody knows me 34.Drowned world/substitute for love 35.Dress you up 36.Don't tell me 37.Hard candy 38.4 minutes 39.Like a virgin 40.Waiting 41.Future lovers/I feel love (Confessions tour version-LIVE) 42.Jump 43.Give it to me 44.Gone 45.X-static process 46.Till death do us part 47.Open your heart 48.Sorry 49.Bad girl 50.Get together PLUS(songs that almost made the top50) -Words -I deserve it -Nothing really matters -Die another day -Erotica [Edited 8/17/09 5:40am]  | |
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LiveToTell86 said: CrozzaUK said: OMG Id never noticed that.....that is a travesty. What in the hell is wrong with her and WB - why does everything have to be so bloody half arsed?
I wouldn't classify this as a Warner fuck-up at all, Madonna decided the album version of EY was irrelevant like 20 years ago. Warner just amended the digital release to offer the more popular version. Personally I disagree with it and even find the Stephen Bray version superior, but this is something that Madonna has to do with. This is why I pretty much doubt several album versions for Celebration. I think Bray will be only represented in production with "Papa Don't Preach". If she is petty enough to allow her beef with certain producers to filter through to a greatest hits - that would explain why she's cut off Deeper & Deeper, as this limits Shep Pettibone to 2 cuts(and a third of a writing credit). Im convinced that we will get the original version of Into The Groove (maybe blindly so), and im convinced we'll get the original Express Yourself. It made sense for them to allow all Sheps remixes on the Immaculate Col. She was really into his stuff at the time, and it gave the entire collection a sense of continuity - what i think makes it so special as a hits collection....not to mention the fact that all songs were remixed for Q sound. However im prepared to be disappointed. Im prepared for heavy editing of all the wrong songs, and i do think that the tracklisting doesnt flow quite right (Cherish after Live To Tell!!! A sex marathon of Erotica & Justify My Love!!!), but i think the fact they've highlighted that these tracks are all Remastered indicates that they will remain faithful to the originals. | |
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Songs that almost made my Top 50:
"Sorry" "Survival" "Material Girl" "Dance 2Night" "Bye Bye Baby" | |
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SoulAlive said: LiveToTell86 said: I wouldn't classify this as a Warner fuck-up at all, Madonna decided the album version of EY was irrelevant like 20 years ago. Warner just amended the digital release to offer the more popular version. Personally I disagree with it and even find the Stephen Bray version superior, but this is something that Madonna has to do with. This is why I pretty much doubt several album versions for Celebration. I think Bray will be only represented in production with "Papa Don't Preach". I prefer the remix version of "Express Yourself" That heavy bass and all the other bells and whistles....it kills the album version! Madonna has said that she often likes the remixes better than the album versions and in this case,I gotta agree with her.I think she just likes newness. By the time an album is released she's sick of some songs already, so remixes re-invigorate the appeal of some songs to her. For a hits package like this i wouldnt advocate any remixes at all. I think the original version of Express Yourself is one of the gems in her catalogue - a wonderfully constructed R&B pop number, with its great brass lines and backing vocals. It exudes waaay more sass and attitude than the cold synths of Sheps remix. | |
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SoulAlive said: Songs that almost made my Top 50:
"Sorry" "Survival" "Material Girl" "Dance 2Night" "Bye Bye Baby" Curious, isn't i? Material girl has always been my favourite Madgie's pop single, in fact, it is one of my favourite pop singles of the 80's [Edited 8/17/09 5:40am] | |
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CrozzaUK said: LiveToTell86 said: I wouldn't classify this as a Warner fuck-up at all, Madonna decided the album version of EY was irrelevant like 20 years ago. Warner just amended the digital release to offer the more popular version. Personally I disagree with it and even find the Stephen Bray version superior, but this is something that Madonna has to do with. This is why I pretty much doubt several album versions for Celebration. I think Bray will be only represented in production with "Papa Don't Preach". If she is petty enough to allow her beef with certain producers to filter through to a greatest hits - that would explain why she's cut off Deeper & Deeper, as this limits Shep Pettibone to 2 cuts(and a third of a writing credit). Im convinced that we will get the original version of Into The Groove (maybe blindly so), and im convinced we'll get the original Express Yourself. It made sense for them to allow all Sheps remixes on the Immaculate Col. She was really into his stuff at the time, and it gave the entire collection a sense of continuity - what i think makes it so special as a hits collection....not to mention the fact that all songs were remixed for Q sound. However im prepared to be disappointed. Im prepared for heavy editing of all the wrong songs, and i do think that the tracklisting doesnt flow quite right (Cherish after Live To Tell!!! A sex marathon of Erotica & Justify My Love!!!), but i think the fact they've highlighted that these tracks are all Remastered indicates that they will remain faithful to the originals. Well, it's not just about the beefs, just that she actually considers those the better version. And this goes onto songs that were produced by people she's in good terms with, like she keeps on doing a dance mix of "Like A Prayer" since 1990, even though the original was far from a straight up dance song and in parts it was very slow. Or now, Oakenfold produced "Celebration" but Madonna already prefers the Benny Benassi remix and chose it to be the video version. I really don't think there's any chance for the original EY to surface on this GH. The remix is a lot more famous, it's been everywhere except the TIC DVD (where the video uses a version very close to the album version), but I'd go as far as predicting that now the DVD will have the remix as well. And while this would mean she's forced to choose between 2 producers she had problems with, technically it's still only Stephen Bray that we have evidence for a real beef. Of course it would be naive to believe Madonna is in good terms with any of her 80s producers other than Patrick and Lenny, but it's not like Reggie Lucas or Shep pissed Madonna of like Bray did, who released her pre-Madonna demos... I agree with you on the sex marathon thing, not only it feels like those were just slapped on to make sure that era is not forgotten, having them next to each other would just reinstate the feelings about Madonna following a formula and repeating herself with "Erotica" after "JML". But that is why I'm quite positive about "Erotica" being the Stuart mix, since that uses the demo version lyrics and it was turned into a safer song, not to mention is closer to her dance songs that way. If it wasn't for the Confessions Tour, I'm quite convinced this GH would have "Deeper And Deeper" since that does not have a bad reputation and fits with all those dance hits on CD1. I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility of "Into The Groove" appearing in its 1985 form, but if it happens, I'd attribute that to fan requests. And it has to be noted that technically that would mean digging into the "vaults" since that version is not in print now, and I'm not sure if I can assume Warner taking time and effort only for one song... | |
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JoeTyler said: 37.Hard candy I love this song,too especially that naughty chorus!
gimme some of your hard candy,baby I got a sweet tooth like you wouldn't believe | |
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LiveToTell86 said: CrozzaUK said: If she is petty enough to allow her beef with certain producers to filter through to a greatest hits - that would explain why she's cut off Deeper & Deeper, as this limits Shep Pettibone to 2 cuts(and a third of a writing credit). Im convinced that we will get the original version of Into The Groove (maybe blindly so), and im convinced we'll get the original Express Yourself. It made sense for them to allow all Sheps remixes on the Immaculate Col. She was really into his stuff at the time, and it gave the entire collection a sense of continuity - what i think makes it so special as a hits collection....not to mention the fact that all songs were remixed for Q sound. However im prepared to be disappointed. Im prepared for heavy editing of all the wrong songs, and i do think that the tracklisting doesnt flow quite right (Cherish after Live To Tell!!! A sex marathon of Erotica & Justify My Love!!!), but i think the fact they've highlighted that these tracks are all Remastered indicates that they will remain faithful to the originals. Well, it's not just about the beefs, just that she actually considers those the better version. And this goes onto songs that were produced by people she's in good terms with, like she keeps on doing a dance mix of "Like A Prayer" since 1990, even though the original was far from a straight up dance song and in parts it was very slow. Or now, Oakenfold produced "Celebration" but Madonna already prefers the Benny Benassi remix and chose it to be the video version. I really don't think there's any chance for the original EY to surface on this GH. The remix is a lot more famous, it's been everywhere except the TIC DVD (where the video uses a version very close to the album version), but I'd go as far as predicting that now the DVD will have the remix as well. And while this would mean she's forced to choose between 2 producers she had problems with, technically it's still only Stephen Bray that we have evidence for a real beef. Of course it would be naive to believe Madonna is in good terms with any of her 80s producers other than Patrick and Lenny, but it's not like Reggie Lucas or Shep pissed Madonna of like Bray did, who released her pre-Madonna demos... I agree with you on the sex marathon thing, not only it feels like those were just slapped on to make sure that era is not forgotten, having them next to each other would just reinstate the feelings about Madonna following a formula and repeating herself with "Erotica" after "JML". But that is why I'm quite positive about "Erotica" being the Stuart mix, since that uses the demo version lyrics and it was turned into a safer song, not to mention is closer to her dance songs that way. If it wasn't for the Confessions Tour, I'm quite convinced this GH would have "Deeper And Deeper" since that does not have a bad reputation and fits with all those dance hits on CD1. I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility of "Into The Groove" appearing in its 1985 form, but if it happens, I'd attribute that to fan requests. And it has to be noted that technically that would mean digging into the "vaults" since that version is not in print now, and I'm not sure if I can assume Warner taking time and effort only for one song... I don't think ITG is out of print. It was included in the old cd version of Like A Virgin so it's not like they have to extract it from an LP | |
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CrozzaUK said: SoulAlive said: I prefer the remix version of "Express Yourself" That heavy bass and all the other bells and whistles....it kills the album version! Madonna has said that she often likes the remixes better than the album versions and in this case,I gotta agree with her.I think she just likes newness. By the time an album is released she's sick of some songs already, so remixes re-invigorate the appeal of some songs to her. For a hits package like this i wouldnt advocate any remixes at all. I think the original version of Express Yourself is one of the gems in her catalogue - a wonderfully constructed R&B pop number, with its great brass lines and backing vocals. It exudes waaay more sass and attitude than the cold synths of Sheps remix. I'm fine with remixes on a hits package if they were the actual single remixes (in fact, I generally prefer them). In the case of "Express Yourself," I think it's important to include the remix version. Off the top of my head, I'd call it her most famous/played remix. The album version is still preserved on the CD. BTW, I've always enjoyed the contrast between the song's message and the "cold synths." The album version comes across as a suggestion while the remix sounds more like a demand. [Edited 8/17/09 6:26am] "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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SoulAlive said: Okay guys,now that we know the tracklist,let's try to compile the 1-disc version Here's how I think it should look:
So that tracklist is official? "Burning Up" is really on there?  Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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Moonbeam said: SoulAlive said: Okay guys,now that we know the tracklist,let's try to compile the 1-disc version Here's how I think it should look:
So that tracklist is official? "Burning Up" is really on there? Looks like it's on there  | |
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LiveToTell86 said: CrozzaUK said: If she is petty enough to allow her beef with certain producers to filter through to a greatest hits - that would explain why she's cut off Deeper & Deeper, as this limits Shep Pettibone to 2 cuts(and a third of a writing credit). Im convinced that we will get the original version of Into The Groove (maybe blindly so), and im convinced we'll get the original Express Yourself. It made sense for them to allow all Sheps remixes on the Immaculate Col. She was really into his stuff at the time, and it gave the entire collection a sense of continuity - what i think makes it so special as a hits collection....not to mention the fact that all songs were remixed for Q sound. However im prepared to be disappointed. Im prepared for heavy editing of all the wrong songs, and i do think that the tracklisting doesnt flow quite right (Cherish after Live To Tell!!! A sex marathon of Erotica & Justify My Love!!!), but i think the fact they've highlighted that these tracks are all Remastered indicates that they will remain faithful to the originals. Well, it's not just about the beefs, just that she actually considers those the better version. And this goes onto songs that were produced by people she's in good terms with, like she keeps on doing a dance mix of "Like A Prayer" since 1990, even though the original was far from a straight up dance song and in parts it was very slow. Or now, Oakenfold produced "Celebration" but Madonna already prefers the Benny Benassi remix and chose it to be the video version. I really don't think there's any chance for the original EY to surface on this GH. The remix is a lot more famous, it's been everywhere except the TIC DVD (where the video uses a version very close to the album version), but I'd go as far as predicting that now the DVD will have the remix as well. And while this would mean she's forced to choose between 2 producers she had problems with, technically it's still only Stephen Bray that we have evidence for a real beef. Of course it would be naive to believe Madonna is in good terms with any of her 80s producers other than Patrick and Lenny, but it's not like Reggie Lucas or Shep pissed Madonna of like Bray did, who released her pre-Madonna demos... I agree with you on the sex marathon thing, not only it feels like those were just slapped on to make sure that era is not forgotten, having them next to each other would just reinstate the feelings about Madonna following a formula and repeating herself with "Erotica" after "JML". But that is why I'm quite positive about "Erotica" being the Stuart mix, since that uses the demo version lyrics and it was turned into a safer song, not to mention is closer to her dance songs that way. If it wasn't for the Confessions Tour, I'm quite convinced this GH would have "Deeper And Deeper" since that does not have a bad reputation and fits with all those dance hits on CD1. I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility of "Into The Groove" appearing in its 1985 form, but if it happens, I'd attribute that to fan requests. And it has to be noted that technically that would mean digging into the "vaults" since that version is not in print now, and I'm not sure if I can assume Warner taking time and effort only for one song... If every song is being remastered, that would mean going back to the original master tapes. In a recent interview, William Orbit mentioned WB had asked him to work on some old stuff for a future project, most likely remastering Frozen, Beautiful Stranger & ROL. Im not suggesting all the old producers will have contributed to this process - but the ones she's on good terms with maybe. They made a big thing about all the songs being remastered so i dont for a second believe we'll get a bunch of remixes. As a selling point, remastering only works if its of the original tracks. As I said before - the dance mixes of LAP, Into The Groove, Express Yourself, were used on the IMmaculate collection to give it a sense of continuity. Some of the tracks were even sped up to enhance this. This is a different collection in that sense...and i do think they'll stick to the originals and edits. We certainly wont be getting the confessions version of Erotica. | |
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CrozzaUK said: They made a big thing about all the songs being remastered so i dont for a second believe we'll get a bunch of remixes. As a selling point, remastering only works if its of the original tracks.
As I said before - the dance mixes of LAP, Into The Groove, Express Yourself, were used on the IMmaculate collection to give it a sense of continuity. Some of the tracks were even sped up to enhance this. This is a different collection in that sense...and i do think they'll stick to the originals and edits. We certainly wont be getting the confessions version of Erotica. I think we'll be getting single edits and video versions, which makes sense for an artist like Madonna. Looking over the tracklist, I expect "Express Yourself" to be the only remix used, which is fine by me. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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