ehuffnsd said:

Regarding the wheel chair comment, he's been walking on his feet to bookstores and antique shops every single day.

Alright final point:

This song was recorded in 2008- MJ sang the song with Akon, and it was supposed to be on Akon's album. Do you think this sounds like a person who can't sing anymore?

Hear his singing in this song.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...BVY_49KtHk

He also re-recorded For All Time for the Thriller 25 release.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...vVWsdsE4ZY
[Edited 5/22/09 18:42pm]

ehuffnsd said:

that wasn't the first time he went around in a wheelchair....

From Bad era 1988

suga10 said:

Dude, studio recordings do not tell you what someone can do live. You are embarrassing yourself by not realizing this. And that For All Time was recorded about 18 years ago. You're being disingenuous yet again.

midnightmover said:

If he sucked so much in singing now, he wouldn't have released History or Invincible.

In the studio, he doesn't have to do all the dancing that he does on stage, to entertain the audience. He just has to sing.

He has proven that he's capable of singing songs. When he's on stage- he focuses on entertaining the crowd- they wanna see him dance his ass off. You know he's the type of person who doesn't want to disappoint his audience, so he keep sticking to the same old routines continuously, and style of doing stage performances.

Now if If you look at Mariah Carey- you can tell that she can't sing like she used to sing- I notice a big difference in how she sings on albums like Music Box and Emotions- and compare it to E=MC2, Rainbow, and Charmbraclet. So don't say that a studio recording isn't reflective of how well a singer can still sing. Britney doesn't have the greatest voice- and her studio albums reflect that, but you can tell, she did sing a bit better during Her Baby One More Time days on albums, compared to how she sings these days on albums. Even Madonna's voice has changed on her albums throughout the years, and her voice does sound more stronger ever since Evita.
[Edited 5/22/09 19:39pm]

suga10 said:

I honestly think there is something wrong in your head. Let me repeat this for the millionth time. Read carefully. Concentrate. Michael. Mimes. Ballads. No dancing there, and yet he mimes. You are being dishonest by pretending not to know this.

You defend Michael by saying "His voice changed over the years, but so does everyone's" after you just criticized Mariah Carey because her voice is different to how it used to be. You can't even be consistent in your arguments. It's an irrelevant argument anyway. We're not talking about "change", we're talking about decline. Mariah is actually a good example of someone who also sounds better in recordings than she does live, just like Michael (although the disparity between her live and studio vocals is not as huge as it is with Michael- check out that "You Rock My World" clip for proof of that).

You've already shown how ignorant you are when you listed Britney Spears, Madonna and Janet Wackson as "good singers" who mime. I could point out more of your foolishness and inconsistencies, but it's like shooting fish in a barrel. It's just too easy. MJ fans.... what a bunch of loons.
[Edited 5/22/09 19:40pm]

midnightmover said:

Read carefully what I said, I said Jackson's voice changed- not declined. When I mean changed, I mean his style has changed.. I never said his voice ever declined. The voice is still good and there.

With Mariah, you can tell she can't sing the same way she used to sing- if you hear how sings Hero now and compare it to the way she sings Hero in 1993. There's a big difference. She has trouble hitting the high notes like she used to.

Also I never said anything about Janet- where are you getting that from? I never said Britney was a good singer- I just used her as an example to justify that artists do mime in performances besides just Mike.

And you posted that performance from MSG from that night where he wasn't feeling well. You probably knew that too, but once again- you're trying to justify your point that he can't sing.
[Edited 5/22/09 20:05pm]
[Edited 5/22/09 20:54pm]

suga10 said:

That's exactly what I said you said, fool. Read the post again. I quoted you directly saying his voice had changed. I was criticizing you for talking about change when decline is the topic, not change. Are you fucking retarded or what?

And you have completely changed your Mariah Carey argument. Here's what you said originally..."Now if If you look at Mariah Carey- you can tell that she can't sing like she used to sing- I notice a big difference in how she sings on albums like Music Box and Emotions- and compare it to E=MC2, Rainbow, and Charmbraclet. So don't say that a studio recording isn't reflective of how well a singer can still sing". You were explicitly saying that studio recordings give a good reflection of how a singer can sing, yet you are now using LIVE PERFORMANCES of "Hero" to show how she's declined. You are proving my point without even realizing it. It's LIVE that you hear her vocal decline. Which proves my point. You are deeply confused.
[Edited 5/22/09 20:05pm]

No I'm basing my analysis of Hero- on her latest re-recording of it.

The recording here:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...xkCOuQfPGU


And stop dissing people. I'm not calling you any names. You don't have to criticize a person if they don't agree with you.

Other people have said the same thing to you, and you've gotten warnings by the moderators, and you still don't change your behavior after all that.

And yes a studio recording can reflect how well a person is capable of still singing, which I just proved above, with that clip of Mariah's re-recording of Hero.
[Edited 5/22/09 20:10pm]

suga10 said:

But Michael's recorded vocals are not what they used to be either. He sounds constipated and nasal much of the time. But live he's been sounding bad for twenty years. The decline started in 1988. And I have to diss you because you can't even follow my points. Also, you persistently pretend not to know things. Like the fact that he mimes ballads, which totally undermines your silly argument that he only mimes because he's busy dancing. Your failure to address so many points only underlines how desperate you are to avoid the truth.
[Edited 5/22/09 20:16pm]

midnightmover said:

What a load of crap.

You think his recorded vocals sounds nasally now??? I don't see any nasally singing on any of the songs later on that he did. You make no sense.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...lEHbKaC9bQ

http://www.youtube.com/wa...oq4i8tfQDs

http://www.youtube.com/wa...L&index=29

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Aa7z5QdL4M
[Edited 5/22/09 20:22pm]

Also I'm surprised you didn't post these performance from MSG earlier (when he performed sung with his brothers) to justify how he apparently can't "sing" anymore, yet you purposely chose the performance from the night he wasn't feeling well- to prove that he can't sanymore. So much for your argument that he can't sing anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related
[Edited 5/22/09 20:37pm]

suga10 said:

Well, given that you listed Britney Spears and Madonna as good singers it should hardly come as a surprise that you haven't noticed his constipated, blocked-up-nose sound. "This Time Around" is a pretty good example, but his last two albums were littered with unpleasant noises coming from he-with-the-bowel-problem. That pinched sound first became evident on the second leg of the Bad Tour. It wasn't there in 1987, but after '88 we had to get used to it. Even on the "Another Part Of Me" video in 1988, you can clearly hear the decline beginning. He started sounding hoarse for the first time. The cracks you hear there were just an inkling of what was to come. By the Dangerous Tour he was starting to sound very rough. By the History Tour it was over.

Still dodging that point about miming the ballads, I see. Keep up the evasion.

midnightmover said:

Last message to you:

I don't think Britney is a good singer. I think she sucks. I was just showing you that that Michael Jackson isn't the only singer who mimes on stage. Other artists do too when its off convenience to them.

Good singers to me are: Prince, Michael Buble, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, Alicia Keys, Norah Jones, Christina Aguilera, Whitney Houston, etc. etc. so you have an idea of who I consider as good singers! I listed some names to you.
[Edited 5/22/09 20:46pm]
[Edited 5/22/09 20:49pm]

suga10 said:

Poor Mike. He has my sympathy

suga10 said:

That just confirms how devious you are then (which I knew already). I asked you if you could name any good singers who mime in concert in order to prove that there are none. You named Britney in response even though you now admit she's a crap singer. So once again you were being devious. An honest reply (which you are clearly incapable of ever giving) would have been to agree with me. You can't name any good singers who mime in concert. Only the non-singers do it (Spice Girls, Janet, Britney, etc). That is the company Michael is now keeping.

And by the way, most of those singers you mentioned are soulless, bland belters. An awful selection, apart from Prince. Oh and still dodging the point about Michael miming ballads, I see.
[Edited 5/23/09 6:55am]

[quote]

midnightmover said:

Oh there's plenty more singers who can I go on about- Ella Fitzgerald, Marvin Gaye, Sammy Davis Jr, etc. etc. but its just a waste of time typing all that text- especially when debating with you.

As far as Michael miming ballads, I'll get to that in a minute.... just hang on.
[Edited 5/22/09 21:08pm]

This was from 1996- Royal Concert- Brunei

He's wearing his outfit from the Dangerous Tour (This was before the History tour started I think), he sung these live. Remember on the History Tour- he was suffering from laryngitis. So much for you argument, that he purposely avoids Ballads- to hide his inability to sing.

She's Out of My Life

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ReQv3QFFyQ


Human Nature

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related
[Edited 5/22/09 21:17pm]
[Edited 5/22/09 21:20pm]


I Just Can't Stop Loving You
http://www.youtube.com/wa...NzcMBd_KOQ
[Edited 5/22/09 21:25pm]

The thing is over the last 20 years Michael has choosen dance over singing. In the beginning when Michael first hit the scene back in 69 with his brothers he was seen as a "great, soul" singer even though he was just a little boy. Michael was NEVER a dancer first and foremost, he was a singer that just happened to be a great dancer.

Now I don't know if his voice has just detoriated through the years or he just decided to give up singing live and concentrate on being a dancer. He and his fans seem to think it all about the dance now rather than the voice. But I do believe he is paying the price for neglecting his greatest asset, which was his voice. With age the body slows down and in the case of MJ I doubt he would be able to dance so energetically over two hours on a consistent basis. If his voice was in such great shape for live singing, the dance wouldn't really matter that much. Even the late James Brown, the funkiest dancer ever, slow down the dance tremondously as he got older and let his voice do most of the talking in later years. W
[Edited 5/22/09 21:27pm]
[Edited 5/22/09 21:29pm]

whatsgoingon said:

Even though, we may disagree, I appreciate you sharing your opinion without talking down or insulting other's intelligence.

midnightmover said:

I'm a female.

suga10 said:

The Brunei concert was before he wore his voice out in the rehearsals for the new tour. He hadn't lost it completely by then, but still the vocals are very rough in many places. That "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" is filled with fluffed notes. Lots of them. It is not a good vocal performance (can you even hear that?). But that gig was before they'd rehearsed the new show. In the process of that his voice got worse, and he gave up singing live for 90% of the show. Same thing happened on the Dangerous Tour 4 years earlier. He started out planning to sing live even though it sounded rough in places. His voice then got worse so he started miming half the show (what's your excuse for that?). Same thing happened on the Bad Tour. He started completely live in that case, then his voice started cracking and so he started mimimg the last two songs (what's your excuse for that?). The fact that he always used to start out his tours trying to sing live and then gave up as his voice got worse only confirms what I'm saying. He has no vocal stamina and the years have seen a consistent decline. By 1999 he wasn't even trying to sing live anymore.

And you are still dodging the point (surprise, surprise). Michael repeatedly mimes ballads. Those clips do not change that. Since there is no dancing in songs like "Heal The World" or "You Are Not Alone", why does he mime them? By dodging this point you are just showing your intellectual dishonesty. I am honestly responding to your posts. You are not doing the same with me.
[Edited 5/23/09 5:05am]

Yet you still were not able to explain the singing he did with his brothers on the MSG special. Don't you think he would have mimed that as well, if he couldn't sing anymore?? Nice try in trying to prove that he can't sing anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...rAsuBnWvdE

http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related

I don't get why those who think he can still sing are posting things that are over 5 years old to prove their point. Songs done in the studio, unless it's a LIVE broadcast, don't count either since a frog can be made to sound good nowadays. Let's see something, from within the last year or two, of him singing live acapella or accompanied by only a guitar or piano.

He could end a lot of speculation by putting up a video on Youtube of him actually singing and dancing during all the rehearsals he's supposedly been working so hard on.

A true musician CAN'T stop working their craft, even when it's in decline, they still have to do it because it's like breathing to them. Like James was mentioned earlier; in his last years, he'd still come out and give it his all for a song or two, then go sit down for a rest and let someone else take over for a few. That man worked/abused the hell out of his body and voice, yet KEPT GOING. He didn't hide behind studio magic or miming, even when he was 20 yrs older then MJ is now.

PatrickS77 said:

just ignore that fool he's never going to go away cause he's obsessed with michael and can't help it

midnightmover said:

oh please midnight-whatever your name is you act like everyone actually agrees with you. with the exception of a few other trolls on here NO ONE is on your side. Most people on here ignore you and probably laugh at you behind yourself. cause every knows you are full of crap. no one takes YOU seriously and you are wasting your time. If you hate Mj so much why are you always on here its PATHETIC get a life. if he makes you that mad then go away and stop talking about him. I'm starting to think you are sick in the head. It is not normal for someone to spend so much time talking and posting about someone they can'y stand. Maybe you should get a hobby or go talk to a counselor or something.

serious question




who in this thread actually takes midnightmover seriously?