suga10 said:

No, that's just an excuse you guys invented to cover the History Tour. One of many excuses. This excuse doesn't cover the Dangerous Tour though, which he mimed half of, or the 1999 shows which were all mimed. Or the WMAs shambles where he gave up singing after two lines. You have completely separate excuses for all of these occasions. No doubt you will develop many more in a few months time.

He was suffering from Laryngitis on the History tour- don't forget that. MSG- dude was unwell and on painkillers.

Why not talk about this performance from 1993 during the Clinton Inaugural Ceremony, when he's not jumping around the stage? He sang it well.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...0mcxmCGetI

What about this performance of Human Nature from the Dangerous Tour Rehearsals?

http://www.youtube.com/wa...IHTdAEvHLE
[Edited 5/22/09 16:52pm]
[Edited 5/22/09 16:53pm]

suga10 said:

No, that's just an excuse you guys invented to cover the History Tour. One of many excuses. This excuse doesn't cover the Dangerous Tour though, which he mimed half of, or the 1999 shows which were all mimed. Or the WMAs shambles where he gave up singing after two lines. You have completely separate excuses for all of these occasions. No doubt you will develop many more in a few months time.

midnightmover said:

Um its very much possible that someone's voice can have problems at times. Jackson is no superman. Many singers have had problems with their voices at various points of their career.
[Edited 5/22/09 17:00pm]

suga10 said:

Michael's problems have been going for 21 years now. It's safe to say they are long term and permanent. Name one other good singer who mimes in concert. You can't because there isn't one. Only people who can't sing properly mime in concert. Michael has joined that group.

It was his disastrous WMAs performance where he gave up singing after two lines.

midnightmover said:

Britney has mimed her entire Circus Tour.

Madonna has mimed plenty of times in the past, when she's done a lot of dancing on stage- Reinvention Tour, Blond Ambition Tour. Remember Elton John dissing her for the lipsyncing on the Reinvention Tour?

Most artists will sacrifice dancing so much on stage- so they can sing in the concerts.

With Jackson- he wants to give you plenty of dancing too- so then it becomes hard to sing so much on the stage too.
[Edited 5/22/09 17:15pm]

midnightmover said:

Motown 25 Billie Jean performance was mimed.

Also what do you think about his performance for Sammy Davis Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...c8UI1Roxpo
[Edited 5/22/09 17:06pm]

suga10 said:

Once again you are being a disingenuous MJ fan. You know full well that the section WITH HIS BROTHERS was live. Please stop being so slippery. It only shows the weakness of your argument that you have to resort to such intellectual dishonesty.

That Sammy Davis performance was from 19 years ago. The fact that you are trudging up such old examples only shows what shaky ground you're on. Why don't you mention his Elizabeth Taylor performance from 12 years ago, which was mimed?

As for the Sammy Davis performance, like the Clinton one from a few years later, it shows a competent vocal performance, but not a particularly great one. Compare it to any of his live vocals from the 70s and it pales hopelessly in comparison. His voice was already in decline, but nowhere near as bad as it later became.

And by the way, it's no coincidence that his only live vocals in the early '90s TV appearances were on those slow, quiet, draggy numbers. Those songs are easier to sing because they give a singer plenty of room to breathe and you have very little instrumentation to compete with, so you can get away with singing softer. When you sing soft the weaknesses are not as obvious as when you have to project over a noisy band. That's why when Michael did "Remember The Time" in a wheelchair on the Soul Train Awards he had to mime it. His voice had declined substantially since the Dangerous rehearsals 8 months earlier, and a live performance of that song would have exposed it. Or do you have some other fictitious excuse for his miming that night?
[Edited 5/22/09 17:20pm]

Well just look at how much she dances on here. It proves how tough it is to sing and dance at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...mOrvUQc0Nc

Do you really think Michael is some sort of superman, that he's capable of actually singing with perfection- and doing all the dances and stuff?

midnightmover said:

Britney has mimed her entire Circus Tour.

Madonna has mimed plenty of times in the past, when she's done a lot of dancing on stage- Reinvention Tour, Blond Ambition Tour. Remember Elton John dissing her for the lipsyncing on the Reinvention Tour?

Most artists will sacrifice dancing so much on stage- so they can sing in the concerts.

With Jackson- he wants to give you plenty of dancing too- so then it becomes hard to do both Singing and dancing on stage. Something has to take the back seat. Most fans want to see him dance. They know he can sing, but they want to see entertainment.
[Edited 5/22/09 17:17pm]

Well just look at how much she dances on here. It proves how tough it is to sing and dance at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...mOrvUQc0Nc

Do you really think Michael is some sort of superman, that he's capable of actually singing with perfection- and doing all the dances and stuff?

midnightmover said:

Why don't you tell the whole story? Yes, he gave up singing, but not because his singing was crap, he gave up because it didn't make sense to sing against a backingtrack, which had Stevie Wonder and Bruce Springsteen singing in the lead and at the end they turned off the music... you're always twisting and turning things to make it suit your point! Your always leaning on the negative side without considering that your oh so well praised logic is only a possibility and not the gospel! You could be right, but you also very well could be wrong! And that's why it gets so tiring to hear your bullshit speculations time and time again!

Another Madonna performance- lipsyncing

http://www.youtube.com/wa...jxqWYIATKM

And this one???

http://www.youtube.com/wa...Ctwz5MW6Z4

suga10 said:

umm that's live. painfully so.
[Edited 5/22/09 17:39pm]

suga10 said:

vogue was 50% live 50% backing track on BAT if you listen to the London and Baracalona shows you can hear both the live and recorded Madge
100% backing on the Girlie Show and RIT
live on Sticky and Sweet.

i said earlier if you are going to comapare Michael today to Madonna you have to use the Sticky and Sweet Tour. it was 100% and she didn't do as much dancing as she has done in the past because a two hour show with the that much dancing is hard for her to do even with her fitness program which MJ doesn't have.

ehuffnsd said:

The main point was it wasn't entirely live, and that's because she was doing so much dancing on stage.

Its hard to dance and sing at the same on stage.

And also- she lipsynched Take a bow in 1994 on this German appearance, yet she was hardly doing any dancing.

http://www.dailymotion.co...1995_music

ehuffnsd said:

If you'd have told me twenty years ago that Madonna would be singing live in virtually all her performances while Michael would mime pretty much all of his, I'd have thought you were crazy, but incredibly, that's how it's gone. The Motown giant is being shamed by..... well, I'll leave Madonna alone today, but damn, that heffa actually has more credibility now than him. How did that happen?

midnightmover said:

Kylie! She does it all live all the time. Madge has to keep up to be the ultimate gay diva.

Last time you accused me of just "speculating" was when I told you flat out that Janet would not be doing a second leg to her tour. You were kidding yourself that there was a chance she would start it up again. Only one of us was being logical which was why you were wrong. You just don't think logically.

As for the WMAs, the point is Michael's voice when he started to sing was WEAK! If he had his old power he could have ad-libbed over Bruce and it would have been great, but the power is gone. It's astonishing that you can't see that.

TV appearances for most performers are not live.

midnightmover said:

You know... speculations can be right, but they can also be wrong... in that case they were right and you can glow about it... still doesn't change the fact, that it only was speculation!


Well, that's what you say... but for you nothing he ever does is good enough.... so who cares... fact is, he didn't stop because he can't sing anymore!

ehuffnsd said:

And Michael was not live when he performed Remember the Time at the Soul Train Awards, so why is it a big deal if he didn't sing live, if by your logic, most performers don't usually perform live on TV appearances????

What a big double standard.

ehuffnsd said:

And Michael was not live when he performed Remember the Time at the Soul Train Awards, so why is it a big deal if he didn't sing live, if by your logic, most performers don't usually perform live on TV appearances????

What a big double standard.

i have no double standard. i'm trying to get you to realize that Michael is a 50yo man with no fitness regime and addicted to pain killers. the likely hood of him being able to do a 2 hour singing and dancing show is slim, when Madge who has been a fitness nut whom some claim is in better shape than most Olympic Athletes says it's hard for her to do.

Michael would not be able to do a show like Sticky and Sweet let alone something with more dancing.

ehuffnsd said:

But how do you know what his fitness regime is? The answer is you don't know. He might very well be practicing behind the scenes. You know this man is not the one to disclose any details of what is going on- when things are in the works for new albums and tours. He keeps all of it secret.

Lets wait and see how he does on This is It. If he doesn't perform upto expecations, you can write him off as much as you like, and I'll acknowledge that you were right! But until then, its wrong to write him off.