midnightmover said:

I would have to disagree. Country songs are about broken hearts, cheating hearts as well as standing by your man. The song is about enpowerment. She caught her man cheating and put him out.This song brings back memories of a song by a country artist named, Sylvia, called "Nobody". The song was about the same suject. One last thing, one of the most famous of all R&B songs, "The first, My Last, My Everything, by Barry White, is a remake of a country song. The song was first recorded by country artist, Charlie Pride.The fact that she sometimes overpowers a song, is another issue. All in all, it was an interesting interpretation of the song.
[Edited 11/23/07 12:29pm]

shorttrini said:

This is one highly ignorant post. I'm not talking about the theme of the song, I'm talking about the quality of the writing. Go listen to the early Dixie Chicks albums or Dolly Parton. You'll hear what I mean. Country music is the one genre where, even today, a premium is placed on the quality of the lyrics. In R&B, as any sensible person knows, the lyrical quality is nonexistent. The chorus of this song is a good example "You must not know 'bout me, you must not know 'bout me". In country music you would never get away with having such pedestrian words placed right at the top of the chorus and repeated. Maybe thrown in the middle of a verse as part of a longer line, but never placed that prominently in the song. There's no imagination in "Irreplaceable". A lyric like that would not be taken seriously in Nashville, but in R&B it doesn't matter.

midnightmover said:

First of all, the Dixie Chicks, suck. I do not consider them true country artist. When it comes to the quality of the writing, she is kicking her man out. Are you going to spead your time worrying about using proper grammar, no. You just want to get your point across and she does this. This is what Tammy Winette, Loretta and whole host of others did back in the day. These new fangled country artist, with the exception of a few, know very little about country.

shorttrini said:

I'm sorry but the DC are bout the only true country artist that are around. Everything that gets air play these days is some pop/country hybrid.

shorttrini said:

Have you heard the Dixie Chicks' first two albums? Considering your hopeless comments on country music I think we can safely assume the answer is no.


Stop bullshitting. You know nothing about country and nothing about them. They are the only remaining country artists in the mainstream. Look at their name for godsakes. One of them even plays banjo. And of course their sound has that twang. After the backlash from the Bush comments they have tried to reach other audiences, but they remain a country act. Their last two albums have not been as good as their 90s stuff which is why I stressed the phrase "early Dixie Chicks" in my previous post.


Can you please explain the connection between the first part of this sentence and the second part? The quality of writing is one thing. The theme is another. You have them mixed up. It's like me saying "When it comes to football players, the River Nile is a great river". Makes no sense.


No-one's talking about grammar. We're talking about the difference between the lazy lyrics typically found in R&B and the well wrought lyrics expected in country (even today's crappy watered-down country). If you knew the first thing about this subject you'd know that there's such a thing as artifice. That means no matter how emotional the subject matter, the artist uses their skill to mould it into art. Without that, any fool could just write out their thoughts, make it rhyme, and call it a lyric. Now in some genres that is exactly what is happening. Country isn't yet one of them. "Making a point" is easy. Crafting an artful lyric is another thing altogether. Beyonce knows nothing about that and clearly, neither do you. You speak of Loretta Lynne. She's a perfect example of someone who wrote strong, tough talking songs and did it in a clever way. Titles like "Fist City", and "Don't Come Home From Drinking With Loving On Your Mind", say it all. If you can't see the diffrence between that and Beyonce's first-grade-nursery-rhymes then I think I'd better ignore your posts in future.

midnightmover said:

See, I consider people like, Conway Twitty, Loretta Lynn and George Strait country artist. Why because their sound has not changed since they first started. Their songs tell a story that country music is known for. Nowadays, too many people are coming out calling themselves "Country artist", but while their melodies are okay, the stories that they are telling are just not hitting it. The Beyonce song, is similar to the old country songs of the past because of the story it tells. It is no different from the songs that you mentioned, by Ms. Lynn. It tells of heartbreak just as well as it speaks of moving on and not putting up with a person's shyt. This is very easy to see.

shorttrini said:

Wow, you're being serious aren't you? It's clear you're not capable of understanding the difference between theme and execution. I'm talking about clever phrases, imagination and skill. You're merely saying what the theme is, as if the theme itself makes it good. Total ignorance. Compare the titles of the songs I mentioned and you'll see right away what I'm talking about. "Fist City" is imaginative and witty. "Don't Come Home From Drinking With Loving On Your Mind" makes it's point in a clever way. Beyonce's title by contrast is simply a word, "Irreplaceable", which doesn't tell you much at all. That reflects the lack of ingenuity in the whole lyric. This is the point.
[Edited 11/24/07 11:57am]

midnightmover said:

Hey, I am just stating my opinion. Some of today's country music stars, like the dixie chicks, just don't do it for me; the same goes for some of today's R&B artists. I love lyrics more than I do the music of any song. The lyrics to "Irreplaceble", get right to the point; "You had your chance, you blew it, now get out....you can be replaced". This is what most country and R&B songs from back in the day, were built on. "Don't come home a drinking with loving on your mind",was saying the same thing, dont expect for things to be the same, if you continue to act that way or you will be replaced.

midnightmover said:

I like you

You know what's funny, Beyonce didn't even write "Irreplaceable" so I not sure who some of you are blaming

The Dixie Chicks are great, but they do not write most of the song they record. I love them

Janfriend said:

No, what's funny is how completely irrelevant your post is. The quality of a song remains the same no matter who's name is on the credits. If I found out tomorrow that Prince didn't write "The Beautiful Ones" it wouldn't change the fact that it's a great song.

midnightmover said:

Oh please. Don't come at me like that. Make a point without trying to insult. You came across as if you were talking about her quality of songwriting. You said Crafting an artful lyric is another thing altogether. Beyonce knows nothing about that and clearly, neither do you. That insinuates you are talking about her songwriting. Then, there was a mention of this song. I just pointed out she didn't write the song

Janfriend said:

Actually, Beyonce was one of the writers of the song, along with Ne-yo and the Swedish guys who laid down the track. But what I was responding to was this comment, "The Dixie Chicks are great, but they do not write most of the songs they record." This is irrelevant because I was talking about the quality of the writing, not who the authors were. Also, nowadays they do write most of their own songs which is why they're not as good as they used to be

midnightmover said:

Well, the quality of the writing or lack thereof falls solely on the shoulders of the writers, not the singers

Beyonce has a deal where she gets songwriting credit for songs she doesn't write. Ne-Yo already stated he had written and recorded the song for himself, but thought it came across too arrogant with a man singing it and gave it to Beyonce to sing. Any changes in music may have been done by the swedish guys you mentioned, but Beyonce had very little to with it besides singing

As for the Chicks, I was able to sit front row at the taping of VH1 Storytellers last year. They talked about their writing skills. They have yet to write a song without collaborating with other people. Even on "Taking The Long Way" they didn't write very much. More than before, but still not very much. Sorry you don't think they are as good as they used to be, but "Home" and "Taking The Long Way" are just as good lyrically as "Wide Open Spaces" and "Fly" just different. This last album may be the weakest in regards to lyrics only

Janfriend said:

I emphasise that last sentence because that's where the proof lies that they are mostly doing the lyrics themselves. Their lyrics now are so bad that you just know they're writing them themselves. As for "Home", the problem there wasn't the lyrics, it was just that it was boring musically. Not bad or anything, but not that great either. Just rather ordinary. They lost their sassiness on that one and didn't have anything special to replace it with.

As for who shoulders the blame for poor writing in general, that's another subject all together. I'm just pointing out how the weak lyrics on Irreplaceable (specifically on the chorus) were made more noticable by having a country act sing it. Who wrote them isn't really the point.

midnightmover said:

To me, "Home" is more exciting that "Wide Open Spaces" or "Fly."

theodore said:

I really appreciate "Home" musically as it goes back to their bluegrass roots. It is more mellow and I have to admit, I didn't like it at first. I had to let that one grow on me. I like it now. My favorite album is still "Fly." It has more of a round, organic sound whereas "Wide Open Spaces" is more raw and to the bone.

Janfriend said:

Fly is my favourite as well. When I heard those first two Dixie Chicks albums I had zero expectations. But they grabbed me by the balls and didn't let go (this was only two years ago. I live in the UK, and the Dixie Chicks were hardly known over here until recently). Songs like "There's Your Trouble", and "Cowboy Take Me Away" just have an energising quality that I don't find on Home. Don't get me wrong, I like it and I understand they were going for something different, but like you said, you have to make an effort to like it, whereas you'd have to make an effort not to like Fly and Wide Open Spaces. Maybe I'll give Home another try....someday.
[Edited 11/25/07 6:37am]

Janfriend said:

That's cool.

Home is my favourite, followed by Fly. Taking the Long Way is my third favourite album
I think Lil Jack Slade is the best thing they've ever done

midnightmover said:

Sho nuff, WOS and Fly have songs like There's Your Trouble, Sin Wagon, etc. But I mean, at ths point it would've been boring if they would still be doing the same thing.
Home just has all those solos


They're all amazing really