Hotlegs said:

I'm not saying this. I'm paraphrasing blacqueknight or whatever the hell his name is ! He's the one who's saying Blacks don't listen to "mess" (his words) like Green Day or Nirvana , because Blacks don't like that sort of "hollering" (again, his words). So maybe you need to think twice on who's doing the stereotyping here . (Because, BTW, I'm Black and I love green Day and Nirvana, so I know he doesn't speak for me !!!!!)

jjhunsecker said:

Thats what I was saying about blaqueknight, but u put it in simpler words. As has already bene said by me and JJhunsecker, he is the one stereotyping.

jjhunsecker said:

I REPEAT: I'm not going to sit here and qualify every statement I make. Feel free to deliberately misinterpret whatever you like for arguement's sake. It changes nothing.

thesexofit said:

[b]No. I made general statemenst that are true, not exclusively to everyone. They were not all inclusive. What you two busters are doing is paraphrasing and then re-interpeting what I have posted. I'm not going to play politically correct and PRETEND that all people are listening to all things all the time. That's bullshit. Its no fucking secret that IN GENERAL SEE THESE WORDS? IN GENERAL, black folks are prinarily into R&B and hip hop. I personally am into far more as are many others HOWEVER, that does not change the FACT that a great majority of black folks primarily listen to R&B and hip hop and most of the singers in R&B SING instead of shouting. That doesn't mean no one "understands" the alternative genre, it means what it means. I great number of black Americans are turned off by the vocals in that style as well as the overall music. Think they aren't? PROVE ME WRONG! I will NOT present statistics to you busters. If you're too incompetent to figure this out on your own, then no amount of statistics can help you. If you don't live in the States, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW NOTHING OF. If you're not black or at least in touch and on step with what's going on in the black community, how in the hell could you possibly know what the fuck you're talking about? I am and I do. And Elvis still STOLE from the community and made a fortune doing it.

Am i the only one who is thinking 'black' and 'white' peeps reacting on eachother in a dumb, childish way... did you reread your posts an noticed youre acting like little children....geeze, lighten up, youre creating borders in places where there arent borders anymore...

Get a life....and leave that 'black' or 'white' crap around, is that really your life? just enjoy good music, a mixed society and the opportunities this society offers to you...

Riverpoet31 said:

Ok, cool...lets all CLOSE OUR EYES to the WORLD'S PROBLEMS and just LISTEN TO MUSIC! Cuz that's WAY MORE IMPORTANT...right? Gimme a damn break. When it comes to WORLD ISSUES, if you have NO DIALOGUE then you will HAVE NO RESOLUTION. Now I don't know where you grew up at, but you need to take off those rose-colored glasses and get you a magnifying glass.

Riverpoet31 said:

You mean Chuck D was wrong?!?

BlaqueKnight said:

Eroticist said:

Well Said Eroticist!

Eminem is the most overrated white artist. In my opinion the man has no talent whatsoever. And this is a fact: if he was black, he never would have been this popular. It's all about his image.

by the way, I'm a white European guy

Eraserhead said:

I give him props for "Stan". That was deep. Eminem's popularity is partially due to his subject matter. Many in the maninstream generalize all rap saying its all the same when in fact its not. Because Eminem is telling the trailer park story instead of the hood story, more white people feel that they can relate to him, thus making him "different". Same shit, different packaging.

Hotlegs said:

thesexofit said:

No, dipwad. I arrived at my opinions by my own analysis - you know, before Blaque even clicked on this thread. My posts came before his?

Anyway, get some knowledge about music and its history, and maybe then we can talk.

Oh, and it is probably. Not "proberly". Thanks.
[Edited 4/27/05 9:02am]

Eroticst, the reason why i posted this 'naive' looking remark, is that i see that in this thread people are just NOT going into discussion on a constructive way: its all artist-bashing, dissing, using non-arguments and triviliaties that ultimately lead to nowhere.....

Sure, music (alone) doesnt solve world issues, but they way they are discussed in here do that neither. I mean you dont come there with plattitudes like "all pop music is from black origin" and "Black people dont get music like green day and Nirvana", with my post i was trying to say: discuss from a positive / respectfull point of view, dont turn it into some "i am better - no I am better"-game, thats no solution. So, use true arguments, dont be prejudiced and continue debating

Peace

Riverpoet31 said:

So does this involve lying about what really is or just pretending that preference doesn't exist?

You can't seriously put someone like Kurt Kocaine, excuse me Kurt Novein, oh..I'm sorry, Kurt Kobain in the same class of a singer as say Luther Vandross or Whitney or Celine. Come on. I will not yeild to political correctness to the point of PRETENDING that actual vocal skills, pitch and ability don't matter in music. More people spend more time rationalizing their preferences these days instead of having and acknowledging a set of standards. Sure, music is subjective and so is preference, but come on! I like bullshit music sometimes too but at least I can acknowledge that what I happen to belistening to might be bullshit instead of trying to rationalize it into greatness. I'm sorry. I'm going to call it like I hear it. Bullshit still stinks even if you happen to personally like the smell of it. To clarify, I was using that as an expression and not directly or indirectly hurling an insult at you. I get your post and to an extent you are right. Music creates passion and people are passionate about music. That's just how it is.

Kurt Cobains anxious, fractured voice touches me deeper then Luther Vandross slick soul voice..... Taster differ, next there will come anyone poster saying that both are crap, who knows.

White country-rock singer Lucinda Williams shows more soul in her voice, then Whitneys or Mariah's 'wailing' do to me....

I enjoy Van Morrison's singing above the voices of Marvin Gaye or Prince....

But.....i dont say these that because these three artists are white, but they touch me more with their voices.

For me singers dont have to be technically sublime or especially fluent to touch my soul, i am just saying that it has nothing to do with skin colour, but the way an artist touches me.....

And for some that is Luther Vandross for others its Mick Jagger....

BlaqueKnight said:

Riverpoet31 said:

And that is preference. And that is fine. When talking about ABILITY, there is a difference between a trained singer and someone who screams into a mic. Are you denying this? Putting preferences aside, are you saying to me that you can't distinguish between the ability of someone like George Michael singing "Careless Whisper" and someone "screaming "Rape Me" into a mic off key? If you can not, it is understandable. That just means an A&R dept. job is not for you. You do understand that there are people who decide who gets what record deal, right? I'm not saying that their choices are always correct, but what it says is that SOMEBODY has to be able to distinguish degrees of talent and sounds and who will buy what. I wouldn't go to a Seal concert expecting to hear Oy music just as I wouldn't go to a Dead Kennedys show for easy listening. As I said, there are people in the know of what is selling to what crowd. If one's personal preferences are so precious to them that it deters them from having a realistically objective opinion, then so be it but some people earn their living doing just that.
Not everyone is willing to be politically correct to avoid stepping on toes. I am one of those people. The truth is ugly sometimes, but I'm not gonna lie on the black community in general just to make others feel better. I have to deal with reality; some of you can learn to deal with it, too for a little while. Anybody coming to a thread / conversation on some lala land bullsh*t expecting me to co-sign it just because its "PC" has another thing coming. Not gonna do it. Nope.
[Edited 4/27/05 16:31pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

Well Said BK!!!

Eraserhead said:

i disagree. I actually think he's legit. The problem with Eminem is that the first singles are always some novelty song...they suck.

So different strokes.

Riverpoet31 said:

Ok, I can feel you on that point...no harm no foul

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

you might not believe int he concept of white or black music, but you can't ignore that when a black artist makes a certain type of music or sound, it largly goes ignored by mainstream media and such until it hits suburbia. then a white "artist", like say for example, justin timberlake, is groomed to imitate and deliver a watered down, "safer" version of the aforementioned genre or sound and suddenly they're hailed as the next big thing. or as chris rock put it much more simply, black folk do somthing, make a little bit of money. white folk do that same thing, make a whole lot more. and the sad thing is, they don't even have to be talented anymore. Justin Timberlake can not sing and if people quit oohhing and ahhing over him for 5 minutes, maybe theyed realize it. and he's obviously not the only one. britney spears ripped off madonna, who ripped of tina turner to name one. and britney's worth over 50 million dollars. it makes me want to barf. i just hope one day i don't snap.

krayzie said:[quote]HamsterHuey said:[quote]


Justified is a very good album...



yeah, and it only took two black men (pharrell and timbaland) ripping off prince and michael jackson to make it that way.

p.s.
i do not agree.

everyone who says they don't believe in black or white music is missing the point. this is coming from a black girl who's favorite band is Radiohead and survived high school down south because of Tori Amos. Rasism exists. You can't ignore it. that doesn't make it go away, that only makes it worse and thinking that rasism doesn't play a part in making these mediocure white entertainers successful while black artist go largly unnoticed is just naive and blind. so you can cheer each other on and pat yourselves on the back for not seeing music as a black or white but the industry is. and if you don't believe me, name one black artist in the past twenty years who's been a rock artist, like areosmith (when they were good) or punk like nirvana and survived as long as eminiem and/or made as much money as justin timberlake. if you don't see that, you're part of the problem. racism, unlike your rights, won't go away if you ignore it.

Wow,this thread has been very enlightening.It reminds me of the old days of the Org,when we had long,heated discussions like this on a regular basis.Keep it up,guys

VoicesCarry said:

Ok sorry about that. No doubt u, as everyone else is, entitled to their own opinions even if people like me do not know as much about music as u guys.

As for my spelling, yeah it sucks.

Riverpoet31 said:

-----
"I enjoy Van Morrison's singing above the voices of Marvin Gaye or Prince."

That is your choice but Van get al sorts of props for singing when technically he can't hold a candle to Marvin and he gets it because he is a white man.

That is really the point of this thread.

Laura, what i am trying to say is that some black people still think that white artists are overrated, when thats not the case..... it borders on paranoia to say things like that...

Personally, Van Morrison touches me more then Marvin Gaye, but that has NOTHING to do with Van being white, just personal taste...And please dont tell me you are so naive to think that music critics rule out Marvin Gave either...

To emphasize my point....look at all those "top-100 records of all time" lists that appaer regularly: Most of the time Marvin Gaye's 'whats going on' is in the top 10, and yes 'Astral Weeks' of Van Morrison mostly is too (it isnt my favorite record of him, by the way). In those lists records as James Brown - Live at the Appollo, and several Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Wonder records score high too, next too the likes of Radiohead, Nirvana and The Beatles...

I think some peeps in here are really wrong: in ways of thinking that white artist get more praise then black artists, because thats bullshit. In the end its all about good music....

Riverpoet31 said:

Well, no, I HAVE to interject right here...it is WIDELY KNOWN that white artists get more exposure/recognition than their black counterparts. That's just the sad case of racism that permeates throughout this society.

Eroticist, give me some arguments for that?

The real danger for me is 'pre-fab' artists brought out by record-companies just to make money..