JorisE73 said:

dustoff said:

I'm looking for these sources and just not finding them. On the contrary, Jon Bream said that he participated in the documentary "after receiving positive reports from Prince insiders whom Edelman interviewed." He said he was skeptical at first, but ended up speaking to the director for several hours: "Is Edelman trying to do a hit job with his exhaustive documentary that might never come out? No, he’s trying to give a full portrait of a very complicated, very private, very controlling genius, who relished being mysterious, elusive and inscrutable." Nowhere can I find him saying that he didn't want to be associated with it, after his participation.

I believe you that Susan Rogers may have complained, but I can't find any quotes from her about the subject. Can you share them with us?

As for Cat, I don't really consider her a rational source about anything, but maybe that's just me.

Given the number of Prince associates that Edelman did speak with, I feel like there isn't really enough evidence to suggest that people who were involved with the documentary generally ended up against it. Also, the only people who've gone on record praising the documentary -- as far as I can tell -- are the NYT reporters Wesley Morris and Sasha Wiess, as well as Questlove. I don't see any indication that they are the director's "friends," but maybe you know more than I do on this point?

At one of Rogers's seminars she was asked about it, the person who was there shared her answers from her Q&A on a Discord server and she said she complained to the Estate to block the release and aalso told how she was treated during the interview (practically forcing her to confirm lies like how he was physically and metally abusive to his employees, which she denied evr seeing or experiencing and haven;t heard anyone cpomplain ever about other than that he was a controlling professional, but Edelman didn't seem satisfied with that answer and kept pushing his narative even tho she warned him not to because it just wasn't true to his annoyance.) Ruth Azarte (Prince personal assistant) was vocal on twitter or facebook or wheverever at the time and also had a negative experience and joined Susan as well as others I won;t name, but including Cat, who were very vocal abouyt there experiences and one person reviewed it and broke it down including alot of conflicting info and 'creative' choices that were following a very spcific agenda and narative for the estate to block it, those 17 pages of nonsense in the documentary didn't come flying out of someones ass. Jon Bream also said he didn't want to give Edelman everyting he practically demanded from him.

I don't think that's true. I recall Ruth saying quite the opposite.

[double post edit]

[Edited 1/8/26 2:12am]

johnpiex said:

JorisE73 said:

ah ok. but isn't that what they did for the releases? a cheap barebones release and a SDE?
Or are you suggesting a different versions of teh SDEs? because fans would still than have to pay waay too if they want everything and hoinestly those SDEs weren't worth what they asked for, especially with the nonsense 'liner notes' from irrelevant people that I just don't need.
I would trather the SDEs in smaller sets like I described above, then we would get everything for cheaper and more media exposure.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to release outtake discs following the standard remastered albums. Or essentially break up what would’ve been in a super deluxe and sell it separately. Prince said in an interview that he likes the idea of time capsule style releases with regards to his vault material, so it would be respecting that while also giving us what we want. What I was suggesting is offering collectible super deluxe sets for those who want them, but also offering reasonably priced sets that contain all of the same music but without all of the bells and whistles. Don’t try to force people to fork over the extra dollars to get the music by making it exclusive to an expensive package that some people don’t want or can’t afford. Thus, printing too many copies of an expensive set that are just sitting in warehouses collecting dust. Of course an earnest effort to communicate with the fan base about what we want wouldn’t hurt, either.

That was finally a good idea from Prionce in his later days, but of couorse teh Estate won't do that because they think they know better than the guy who made the empire.
And they certainly have no interest in our ideas because they only want money and not Prince's legacy to thrive, for some reason they only want him to be the 'Purple Rain singer' like the media is making him out to be.

jone70 said:

JorisE73 said:

At one of Rogers's seminars she was asked about it, the person who was there shared her answers from her Q&A on a Discord server and she said she complained to the Estate to block the release and aalso told how she was treated during the interview (practically forcing her to confirm lies like how he was physically and metally abusive to his employees, which she denied evr seeing or experiencing and haven;t heard anyone cpomplain ever about other than that he was a controlling professional, but Edelman didn't seem satisfied with that answer and kept pushing his narative even tho she warned him not to because it just wasn't true to his annoyance.) Ruth Azarte (Prince personal assistant) was vocal on twitter or facebook or wheverever at the time and also had a negative experience and joined Susan as well as others I won;t name, but including Cat, who were very vocal abouyt there experiences and one person reviewed it and broke it down including alot of conflicting info and 'creative' choices that were following a very spcific agenda and narative for the estate to block it, those 17 pages of nonsense in the documentary didn't come flying out of someones ass. Jon Bream also said he didn't want to give Edelman everyting he practically demanded from him.

I don't think that's true. I recall Ruth saying quite the opposite.

Oh, I rwad somewhere from posts of her that she wansn't that satiosfied with it, or maybe I'm mixing her up with someone else, but I'm pretty sure it was her.

Edit: I reqad from some posts from 2020 that she was impressed with the new crew behind the 'new' doc when Ava Duvernay left and Edelman took over in 2020, but in 2024 she wasn't that positive about it and her experience, same as Rogers.

[Edited 1/8/26 11:58am]

JorisE73 said:

jone70 said:

I don't think that's true. I recall Ruth saying quite the opposite.

Oh, I rwad somewhere from posts of her that she wansn't that satiosfied with it, or maybe I'm mixing her up with someone else, but I'm pretty sure it was her.

Edit: I reqad from some posts from 2020 that she was impressed with the new crew behind the 'new' doc when Ava Duvernay left and Edelman took over in 2020, but in 2024 she wasn't that positive about it and her experience, same as Rogers.

[Edited 1/8/26 11:58am]

This is what Ruth said in 2024:

"THIS DOC IS NOT about Prince's musicianship, accolades and beautiful genius. It's about the person. The director is known for clean lines in storytelling and he tells a compelling one based on information that was provided to him. Much was not available because some ppl didn't want to be involved for whatever reason. Because of P's difficult nature this may appear one sided. Because ppl haven't worked through their trauma, it feels fresh and in some cases, violent.

Ppl have a right to tell their story but it isn't always reliable. Years and kvetching over details ppl can bond over their common enemy.

I'm not saying anyone viewed him as an enemy but he was a tough guy and if you took his actions personally, you're feelings got hurt. Prince told me once that he was accused of many things. Some he did, some he didn't. When I found out abt some of his past stuff I was floored. I still worked for him and I was in denial. Nah that didn't happen those ppl are lying. But it did in some cases. Shocked. because he had changed so much, I didn't recognize the person that had done those things and also had a hard time believing it. I felt personally attacked in some ways. But thats how it is when you become a fan of something that isn't popular. It becomes a reflection on you... Its difficult not to take things personally.

But in fact many of the things Prince did, he did. He shared some of them with me and explained why he changed. They talk about how he was trying to get Wendy to denounce her homosexuality. Thats how she synthesized the information but he told me why --- he wanted to see her again and thought homosexuality would keep her from heaven. He wanted to see her in the afterlife. We had an hour discussion abt it as I had to break down that ain't the way homosexuality worked lol. It wasn't abt homophobia, thats just ridiculous. B

But there's a ton of nuance and outright foul stuff that happened, and where it did, it did. He had a powerful, full life and was in service to his fans, Sometimes to his own detriment.

This doc could come out but as a friend said, it would need some scaffolding from the Estate. A podcast, a medium article ahead of the series. Some PR, etc. But Prince wasn't afraid of controversy and I feel he would just say, "Yeah I did those things. I'm sorry I did, I'm a different person now." I say that because they were a few things I asked him abt that he responded with that same sentence.

The stuff with Jill is just yuck. The stuff with other women is yuck. The allegation of. grooming I think is a bit overwrought but he never did anything illegal. There's a great book called, Monsters that talks about the duality of art and the monstrous ppl that create them, like.... a weird creepy Woody Allen. Would I say P qualifies as one of those ppl? No. Like my friend I posted abt below, ppl make serious mistakes (myself included) and if they do the work to change, they deserve the respect for the courage it takes to make those inroads. It isn't easy to change. Especially if has to deal with you, as a person realizing you are not the best you could be.

So my long winded answers is , should this be seen? Yes but its not the documentary you think it is and if you're okay with that, it'll probably be the most incredible journey you can take without ever leaving your home."

This feels like a pretty nuanced take to me. She acknowledges that the documentary has a fairly specific (even limited) perspective, but this is a far cry from not wanting to be associated with it, or complaining to the estate that it should be blocked. She certainly doesn't claim that it shouldn't have been released; on the contrary, she literally says that people should see it.

Now I'm even more curious as to what Susan Rogers actually said.

Thanks for sharing. I don't think I saw that particular post, but I was pretty sure she never said it shouldn't be released.

The full title of that book she mentions is Monsters: A Fan's Dilemma, which I've read and would recommend if you've ever struggled with liking the creative work (film, art, writing, music) of someone who is/was not a great person and/or did not-so-nice to truly awful things. Not gonna lie, I wondered if P. would be mentioned, but he isn't. There is a chapter on Joni Mitchell, though.

dustoff said:

JorisE73 said:

Oh, I rwad somewhere from posts of her that she wansn't that satiosfied with it, or maybe I'm mixing her up with someone else, but I'm pretty sure it was her.

Edit: I reqad from some posts from 2020 that she was impressed with the new crew behind the 'new' doc when Ava Duvernay left and Edelman took over in 2020, but in 2024 she wasn't that positive about it and her experience, same as Rogers.

[Edited 1/8/26 11:58am]

This is what Ruth said in 2024:

"THIS DOC IS NOT about Prince's musicianship, accolades and beautiful genius. It's about the person. The director is known for clean lines in storytelling and he tells a compelling one based on information that was provided to him. Much was not available because some ppl didn't want to be involved for whatever reason. Because of P's difficult nature this may appear one sided. Because ppl haven't worked through their trauma, it feels fresh and in some cases, violent.

Ppl have a right to tell their story but it isn't always reliable. Years and kvetching over details ppl can bond over their common enemy.

I'm not saying anyone viewed him as an enemy but he was a tough guy and if you took his actions personally, you're feelings got hurt. Prince told me once that he was accused of many things. Some he did, some he didn't. When I found out abt some of his past stuff I was floored. I still worked for him and I was in denial. Nah that didn't happen those ppl are lying. But it did in some cases. Shocked. because he had changed so much, I didn't recognize the person that had done those things and also had a hard time believing it. I felt personally attacked in some ways. But thats how it is when you become a fan of something that isn't popular. It becomes a reflection on you... Its difficult not to take things personally.

But in fact many of the things Prince did, he did. He shared some of them with me and explained why he changed. They talk about how he was trying to get Wendy to denounce her homosexuality. Thats how she synthesized the information but he told me why --- he wanted to see her again and thought homosexuality would keep her from heaven. He wanted to see her in the afterlife. We had an hour discussion abt it as I had to break down that ain't the way homosexuality worked lol. It wasn't abt homophobia, thats just ridiculous. B

But there's a ton of nuance and outright foul stuff that happened, and where it did, it did. He had a powerful, full life and was in service to his fans, Sometimes to his own detriment.

This doc could come out but as a friend said, it would need some scaffolding from the Estate. A podcast, a medium article ahead of the series. Some PR, etc. But Prince wasn't afraid of controversy and I feel he would just say, "Yeah I did those things. I'm sorry I did, I'm a different person now." I say that because they were a few things I asked him abt that he responded with that same sentence.

The stuff with Jill is just yuck. The stuff with other women is yuck. The allegation of. grooming I think is a bit overwrought but he never did anything illegal. There's a great book called, Monsters that talks about the duality of art and the monstrous ppl that create them, like.... a weird creepy Woody Allen. Would I say P qualifies as one of those ppl? No. Like my friend I posted abt below, ppl make serious mistakes (myself included) and if they do the work to change, they deserve the respect for the courage it takes to make those inroads. It isn't easy to change. Especially if has to deal with you, as a person realizing you are not the best you could be.

So my long winded answers is , should this be seen? Yes but its not the documentary you think it is and if you're okay with that, it'll probably be the most incredible journey you can take without ever leaving your home."

This feels like a pretty nuanced take to me. She acknowledges that the documentary has a fairly specific (even limited) perspective, but this is a far cry from not wanting to be associated with it, or complaining to the estate that it should be blocked. She certainly doesn't claim that it shouldn't have been released; on the contrary, she literally says that people should see it.

Now I'm even more curious as to what Susan Rogers actually said.

JorisE73 said:

dustoff said:

Now I'm even more curious as to what Susan Rogers actually said.

From a Q&A with Susan Rogers: “When I asked about the reason for canceled documentary, she said”: “The film makers had their own narratives. I sat with the interviewer for 8 hours long, with little time to eat or drink in between, and the interviewer kept asking me the same questions in different ways, tried to make me say he was abusive towards his employees, which he was never. It was my dream to work with him making music even if it meant zero sleeps. That is why I and some of my colleagues called the estate to block the documentary from releasing.”

Well, yes, that does sound much less ambiguous.

Can we get back to Parade, instead of soliloquies on a documentary that will never be seen, and that everyone would've shit on anyway?

I'd really love a SDE of Parade. "Neon Telephone" and the original version of "Old Friends 4 Sale" would be delicious to have in great quality.

got a feeling it's gonna be raining strawberry lemonade all year, folks

Moonbeam said:

I'd really love a SDE of Parade. "Neon Telephone" and the original version of "Old Friends 4 Sale" would be delicious to have in great quality.

I'd be nice to have "Old Friends 4 Sale" segue into "All My Dreams," as Prince intended. You can even hear the last notes of the former when the latter starts. They'll probably fuck that up. And it's an easy solve.

Those first four tracks with all of Clare's strings would be great. "New Position" is already out there.

Ramzoo said:

Too bad that for the "Sign On The Times" SDE, they didn't release the original segued songs as "The Ball" & "Joy In Repetition". I don't complain though.

TBH I'd love to have in pristine quality the original first version of Joy in Repetition without the segue

TrivialPursuit said:

So in practical terms... if we're now completely done with the big SDE box sets and ATWIAD indicates future intent... presumably then Parade will just get remixed for Atmos, remastered on CD and vinyl, and include a second disk of...

Girls and Boys (Edit)

Mountains (Extended Version)

Kiss (Extended Version)

Anotherloverholenyohead (Extended Version)

Erotic City (maybe? since it was a B-side for Girls and Boys)

Alexa de Paris

Alexa de Paris (Extended Version)

Love or Money

Love or Money (Extended Version)

Which is looking a bit thin isn't it. Not even announced yet and I'm already disappointed
I can already imagine the tacky holo-foil deluxe cover art etc.

Given the fan response to ATWIAD maybe they'd consider a third disk of vault tracks, for all the Charade kinda material... but I could also understand if they want to hold that back for the relaunched NPGMC.

[Edited 1/11/26 8:43am]

nxx said:

Given the fan response to ATWIAD maybe they'd consider a third disk of vault tracks, for all the Charade kinda material... but I could also understand if they want to hold that back for the relaunched NPGMC.

Well, so far their only response to fan criticism has been to double down and give even less.