So Rolling Stone just listed "Chaos and Disorder" as one of the worst albums by brilliant artists

Reply #61 posted 02/23/23 10:18am

dodger07

LoveGalore said:

dodger07 said:

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said:

If it were released in 2008, it'd have been a blessing compared to other stuff in that period.

But seriously folks - I think a lot of Prince fans back then took Prince's mood on as their own. He shit on the album (despite making 2 or 3 videos for it) as a "contractual obligation" and fans took on that "fuck Warner Bros" notion and pretended not to like it. It's ridiculous, but it happens.

I always thought that maybe if it were shaved down by a couple of songs or something, it could've been a bonus disk for Come or The Gold Experience. The way Upper was tacked onto Older by George Michael.

I think that's part of it - that people take on the attitude toward the material as presented to them. But I also think it's just not what people were looking for at that time. Most of the material on Come, Gold, and Chaos were all done together and all out there in the atmosphere in different configurations. It was a shock to see how it all shook out - I can't be the only person who was stunned that Gold didn't have three of the most ever present songs of the era: Days of Wild, Ripop, and Acknowledge Me. And then I think people were a little let down with Chaos because it was characterized as a rock record but it was missing yet more of the rockier stuff people were familiar with but hadn't been put on Come or Gold - namely, Calhoun and What's My Name (and we later discovered Da Bang was originally on the Chaos tracklist too). What it did have were a few familiar songs, some really cringey reggae instead of the reggae we wanted, more rapping that we had thought we escaped with the exit of Tony M, and yet more ultra pasteurization on music we already knew (similar to what happened to Endorphinmachine). Taken out of context and decades later, yeah Chaos can be seen in its own light and much of the missing material saw the light of day eventually. But you're sitting down listening to a record that's still missing the new classics he hyped and instead you get "Dig U Better Dead" and some (lovely, but) mellow Rosie crooning on "I Will." You wanted to hear the crunch and grind of The Undertaker on a rock record produced during the same sessions (more or less) but you're hearing a (lovely but) minimal solo on "Into the Light" (which we saw yet more of "The Holy River"). Those of us who were there and were disappointed by what we got prob do still have some lingering disappointment to some degree because we know what it coulda been.

Back then at the time I loved it cos as you say Come, Gold, C&D and even Exodus were from the same great batch.

Thinking about it there were 4 videos made (that we know of) from C&D which goes towards dispelling the 'throwaway album' notion.

And yes I was totally stunned and gutted at the time to not get Days Of Wild and Acknowledge Me on TGE. I watched those 2 on repeat on my VHS copy of TBE movie.

Honing in on the videos - bear in mind, he was doing videos for damn near everything at the time. And C&D was put together much later once the previous two had been released and the dust on that era had settled. I think that is why you see so much new stuff on there. Prince was funny because I don't think he hated any of that material and I think the album artwork and blurb were just really conceptual art. If he didn't care about the record and how it fit into the grand scheme of things, he wouldn't have bothered putting material on it that bled into the next era thematically.

Into the Light and I Will, and perhaps even that whole side of the album, is clearly bridging the gap between Gold and Emancipation. I think Prince had a habit of doing that even with other hodge podge albums like The Black Album. He couldn't help but put the latest song he recorded on there to give a little nod to the future.

I know what you mean about him giving ‘a little nod to the future’ but personally I wouldn’t say Into The Light and I Will are an example of that.
.
They’ve got that NPG live band sound whereas Emancipation does not, with the new plastic production sound. Barring the few songs they’re on.

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Reply #62 posted 02/23/23 10:52am

dodger07 said:

LoveGalore said:

There's Jam of the Year and Savior and others that continue where Into the Light and I Will leave off.

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Reply #63 posted 02/23/23 11:36am

dodger07

LoveGalore said:

dodger07 said:

There's Jam of the Year and Savior and others that continue where Into the Light and I Will leave off.

Yes, agree on those with JOTY having Rosie and NPG also on Betcha By Golly Wow and One Of Us. But they’re like chalk and cheese compared to the other 30 odd tracks

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Reply #64 posted 02/23/23 12:35pm

avatar

RJOrion said:
C & D is the most funkless and soulless lp Prince ever made by far

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

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Reply #65 posted 02/23/23 1:03pm

RJOrion

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

C & D is the most funkless and soulless lp Prince ever made by far

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

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Reply #66 posted 02/23/23 1:08pm

avatar

RJOrion said:
paisleyparkgirl said:

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

I get it when you look at it that way, being a Prince fan since the 80's and seeing him come out with a full rock album was probably different, but overall and at the end of the day, removing Prince's previous work from the equation, it's a pretty good album.

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Reply #67 posted 02/23/23 3:07pm

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

C & D is the most funkless and soulless lp Prince ever made by far

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

So you think people like Purple Rain and Undertaker so much because they're ____? I mean Undertaker is the rock record we expected. And I definitely remember people back in the day wanting him to do a rock record, an acoustic record, a piano record, etc... He could do it all so we wanted to hear it all.

But btw it's not a fully rock album. Prince never did that - he never pute just one genre on a record. There's country, reggae, pop rock, gospel...

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Reply #68 posted 02/24/23 3:01am

leecaldon

RJOrion said:
paisleyparkgirl said:

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

I would contend that an awful lot of his fanbase would be very happy with the occasional rock album. Along with forays into many other genres.

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Reply #69 posted 02/24/23 3:22am

JorisE73

RJOrion said:
paisleyparkgirl said:

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

Opinions.
you don't know what his CORE fanbase wanted only what you wanted or didn't want. Apperently you don't like Rock music but that doesn't mean his entire CORE fanbase dislikes it.

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Reply #70 posted 02/24/23 5:47am

thisisreece

RJOrion said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

RJOrion said:

C & D is the most funkless and soulless lp Prince ever made by far

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

Wild claim.

Hundalasiliah!

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Reply #71 posted 02/24/23 6:11am

thisisreece

The album is great in concept - who wouldn’t want a seemingly off the cuff bag of rough and ready rock tracks from Prince? Even the narrative that it was a collection of unloved darlings tossed together and thrown out to to fulfill a contractual obligation adds to its gritty fuck you charm.

But that’s not exactly the album we got. The rock songs suffer from overproduction. You listen to the alternate version of Zanalee attached to the music video and you just know that all these songs probably exist in grittier, dirtier, stripped-back alternate forms - assemble them and swap out the non-rock songs and what an album it could have been. (I never knew that Da Bang was considered for the album. Throw in Calhoun Square and presumably Empty Room and I imagine a lot of people would be considering this album a personal favourite).

As it stands, Chaos and Disorder is a live staple, a highlight of any show it is played at. I love Dinner with Delores. Right the Wrong is brilliant. I Will is one of Prince’s most beautiful recordings complete with one of his prettiest guitar solos. I’ve grown to like Dig U Better Dead and I Rock, Therefore I Am has an interesting melody (though it’s by far my least favourite track on the album). Had U is great minute or so of bile.

So, while it’s not his best, I’d say it’s far from his worst.

Hundalasiliah!

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Reply #72 posted 02/24/23 6:58am

RJOrion

I overstand that there are exceptions to the rule, and that certain demographics may be put off or offended by my claim, but the fact is that most of Prince's black fanbase and even a good portion of the other demographics thought that Chaos & Disorder was a terrible album compared to Prince's work before it, and even after it. Get mad if you want, but the sales and airplay for that album and the Rolling Stones article speak volumes. The album had zero hit records...not even a mild hit. Bless Yalls broken hearts.
[Edited 2/24/23 6:58am]

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Reply #73 posted 02/24/23 7:30am

JorisE73

RJOrion said:
I overstand that there are exceptions to the rule, and that certain demographics may be put off or offended by my claim, but the fact is that most of Prince's black fanbase and even a good portion of the other demographics thought that Chaos & Disorder was a terrible album compared to Prince's work before it, and even after it. Get mad if you want, but the sales and airplay for that album and the Rolling Stones article speak volumes. The album had zero hit records...not even a mild hit. Bless Yalls broken hearts. [Edited 2/24/23 6:58am]

No need to get all testy Mr. Strawman. Nobody is offended by your made up claim.
People may think it's a terrible album for all kinds of reasons and not just because it's 'Rock' and the opinion of Prince's albums by 'black' people isn't worth more than the opinion of non-'black' people so I don't know what you're trying to get at by making this about skincolor. Prince didn't cater to only 'Black' people even if you wish he did. Thankfully so otherwise we would have never gotten Purple Rain, you know his best selling record by far that wan't only bought and respected by non-blacks.

The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale also didn't sell shit compared to his previous albums and only got some good reviews because it was directly compared to Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic and that one was a sellout embarrasment to his entire career (and then years later we got the same embarasment in AOA and Hit and Run 1).
The disclaimer in C&D that said that the music was only for private use (which was BS as multiple projects Prince was proud of but WBR rejected had these tracks on it) also could have swayed people to think the music was subpar.
Most of these gullible "Can't think for themsleves" Princefans I know ate up every word Prince said and saw his opinions as if it was the ultimate truth and so they parrot that; so "Prince didn't like the songs so I don't either" mentality could also be in play.

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Reply #74 posted 02/24/23 7:54am

avatar

RJOrion said:
I overstand that there are exceptions to the rule, and that certain demographics may be put off or offended by my claim, but the fact is that most of Prince's black fanbase and even a good portion of the other demographics thought that Chaos & Disorder was a terrible album compared to Prince's work before it, and even after it. Get mad if you want, but the sales and airplay for that album and the Rolling Stones article speak volumes. The album had zero hit records...not even a mild hit. Bless Yalls broken hearts. [Edited 2/24/23 6:58am]

Ohh so now you're being specific by adding race into the matter.

I am black and I am really into Prince's rock stuff.

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Reply #75 posted 02/24/23 8:00am

avatar

JorisE73 said:

RJOrion said:

The disclaimer in C&D that said that the music was only for private use

Sounds familiar, Black album anyone ?

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Reply #76 posted 02/24/23 9:03am

RJOrion said:

Just as many black fans, and other demos, love that Prince continued breaking down barriers in music by incorporating rock music into every single album he ever made, some efforts to great effect. I know black men and black women who picked up guitars because they saw Prince do it. And as a gay man, I know I was inspired to pick up a guitar because Prince defied things like expectations around gender expression and beyond.

The album sucks because it was filled with binned material. The first half is really strong, the second half falls instantly apart the second you hear the reggae guy shouting. It never recovers. This can't be a black and white thing because reggae is obviously black music and it really detracts from the song called "I Rock" right away.

Prince doing half baked things always are half baked. The idea he could phone it in and do better than his peers is a fallacy.

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Reply #77 posted 02/24/23 10:25am

GustavoRibas

avatar

RJOrion said:
paisleyparkgirl said:

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

- Ok, but let´s not forget that Prince was VERY influenced by rock artists. Jimi Hendrix, Santana, etc. His lead guitar soloing was 99% based on rock. "Purple Rain" is considered by many as a rock album. It´s ok that some people think that Prince wasn´t ´enough rocker´ to put out a convincing pure rock album, but it´s strange that some fans didn´t want it or were surprised by this.

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Reply #78 posted 02/24/23 12:35pm

SANSKER7

avatar

JorisE73 said:

RJOrion said:

Ive always said Chaos & Disorder is Prince's worst album BY FAR...

It's not a great album but has some really good songs on it, but it's almost a masterpiece compared to Art Official Age or Hit and Run Phase 1

^^^^^...this.

But new power soul sucks big time!

"
First I need a picture of your mother, to verify the fact that there's not another one in the universe so supreme!!"

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Reply #79 posted 02/24/23 1:09pm

avatar

Let's give this thead a different spin.

What are you favorite songs from Chaos and disorder ?

Mine are

-Chaos and Disorder

-I like it there

-Dinner with Dolores

-Same December

-Zannalee

-Dig u better Dead

I've always wanted to like "I rock therefore I am" but there's too much going on. I hope there's another simpler version somewhere out there.

"I will" is brilliant, I can't believe I forgot that one.

[Edited 2/24/23 19:19pm]

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funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #80 posted 02/24/23 2:27pm

SPYZFAN1	Sorry...but I love "Chaos And Disorder". I always thought it was a cool, trashy, throwaway "middle finger" album to WB. Even though it's not punk rock, I always thought it had an "underground/for the diehard fans only" vibe to it.
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Reply #81 posted 02/25/23 3:36am

prince did a few throwaway, or quickie albums. eg batman.

this is another one of those.

def some good, or at least, enjoyable, stuff on there though.

just not all of it.

only thing i really dislike is the dancehall MCing on i rock therefore i am. but i dont hate the song even in spite of that.

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Reply #82 posted 02/25/23 10:50am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince did a few throwaway, or quickie albums. eg batman.

this is another one of those.

def some good, or at least, enjoyable, stuff on there though.

just not all of it.

only thing i really dislike is the dancehall MCing on i rock therefore i am. but i dont hate the song even in spite of that.

LOL There's no way Batman was a quickie or a throwaway album. It's a bit out of the norm for his sound at the time, but it also ushered in a lot of ephemeral aesthetics that we'd know a lot about in the next few years. Hell, Batman is almost a precursor to all things Graffiti Bridge (musically).

don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."

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funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #83 posted 02/26/23 12:48am

a precursor to GB? even though GB is mostly made of songs from earlier in the 80s? im interested to know more....

batman sounds like a quickie album. maybe thats an illusion. i guess prince also just worked quickly. but apart from a few tracks like partyman, arms of orion, or batdance, which must have taken some time to piece together, songs like electric chair, trust, they all sound like he knocked them out in record time. its not like purple rain or D&P even where you can hear he took time with it. but then, prince worked quick in general. sometimes you could hear that, sometimes you couldnt.

anyway, as far as C&D, the best of it i dont think is that far below the best 90s material overall he released. its a cool little album. same december is great, dinner with delores is pretty excellent, i love the ballads, dig u better dead has a lot of bite, and had u is up there with shy or some tracks like orgasm, or solo, as one of his more interesting left field tracks.

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Reply #84 posted 02/26/23 1:43am

LoveGalore	While the bulk of the album was recorded between mid-February and the end of March 1989, Electric Chair was recorded in June 1988, and Scandalous in October 1988. In addition, Vicki Waiting was a revamped version of Anna Waiting, initially recorded in December 1988. - Princevault
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Reply #85 posted 02/26/23 1:47am

In addition, I believe the speed at which Prince recorded Batman was part of the promotion of it all, suggesting he finished it in two weeks or something like that. I'm sure someone recalls this.

Finally, all of the songs on Graffiti Bridge were recorded after Batman, barring any demo versions that existed. And GB shares a ton, aesthetically and stylistically, with Batman (which builds off Lovesexy).

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funkbabyandthe
babysitters

Reply #86 posted 02/26/23 1:52am

yeah i know he re-recorded all the songs (eg cant stop sounds nothing like the early 80s version) so the sounds and drum machines were following on from batman and lovesexy. but GB sounds like he took more time with it. he was obv thinking about it being a tie in with the film so prob made more effort. he didnt stick with these new sounds long though, he changed it up again in 1991.

[Edited 2/26/23 1:53am]

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Reply #87 posted 02/26/23 7:36am

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

[Edited 2/26/23 1:53am]

Well yes, it goes without saying that P would put more into a movie with his name on it.

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Reply #88 posted 02/26/23 11:15am

IanRG

RJOrion said:
paisleyparkgirl said:

It's rock.

Rock is not supposed to be funky and have soul, it's supposed to be angry and chaotic and I think he was able to achieve that.

And thats exactly why the album sucked...most Prince fans, especially his CORE fanbase, dont/didnt want to hear Prince make a rock album...a rock influenced song here or there to show his versatility was cool...but a whole album of that trash was unnecessary, and hard on the ears...while im sure there are certain demographics that are into that, that was not Prince's strength or the main source of his musical appeal..

As a member of his CORE fan base from before Controversy to HnR, I could not disagree MORE.

THE defining attribute of Prince's music is that he has never let his audience button hole him to one genre, one style, one way of doing things. THIS is his strength and his appeal.

That certain songs or albums pushed his casual or more transient fans too much out of their comfort zone has always been the nature of Prince.

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Reply #89 posted 02/26/23 11:33am

IanRG

RJOrion said:
I overstand that there are exceptions to the rule, and that certain demographics may be put off or offended by my claim, but the fact is that most of Prince's black fanbase and even a good portion of the other demographics thought that Chaos & Disorder was a terrible album compared to Prince's work before it, and even after it. Get mad if you want, but the sales and airplay for that album and the Rolling Stones article speak volumes. The album had zero hit records...not even a mild hit. Bless Yalls broken hearts. [Edited 2/24/23 6:58am]

How much of this is because Prince refused to promote it, did not release a single except Dinner with Dolores and then only in the UK, and instead released and promoted Emancipation and its many singles starting just four month's later?

Despite no promotion other than that this is an album I was forced to do, it still reached number 26 in the USA on the back of his CORE fans. Rolling Stone is just being lazy by being driven by the numbers to choose this album for their list.

[Edited 2/26/23 12:00pm]

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