Sheesh....people feel some kinda way about Wendy and Lisa.

[Edited 6/27/22 17:49pm]

Milty2 said:

Sheesh....people feel some kinda way about Wendy and Lisa.

[Edited 6/27/22 17:49pm]

yes......a realistic one. I'm bored with their overated ass contibutions 2 Prince.

[Edited 6/27/22 22:35pm]

Gooddoctor23 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Milty2 said:

Sheesh....people feel some kinda way about Wendy and Lisa.

They're an easy and popular scapegoat, but I think most times people's arguments don't hold a lot of water. It's just being too cool for school, ya know?

By the way, there's a new interview with them on the Associate's page. A lot of "Baby I'm A Star" being cut out of the LIVE! VHS (because of tape constraints) was mentioned. Trevor Horn and Joni are mentioned, too.

TrivialPursuit said:

Milty2 said:

Sheesh....people feel some kinda way about Wendy and Lisa.

They're an easy and popular scapegoat, but I think most times people's arguments don't hold a lot of water. It's just being too cool for school, ya know?

By the way, there's a new interview with them on the Associate's page. A lot of "Baby I'm A Star" being cut out of the LIVE! VHS (because of tape constraints) was mentioned. Trevor Horn and Joni are mentioned, too.

All I know is that, to my ears, after Wendy and Lisa were gone from the scene, Prince's sound was never the same. I'm not saying it needed to stay the same. I'm glad it evolved into all the treasures that we all got to enjoy. But to say that those two didn't have a musical influence on Prince, I think, is a gross understatement. Horns or no horns.

Milty2 said:

RJOrion said:

Milty2 said:

All I know is that, to my ears, after Wendy and Lisa were gone from the scene, Prince's sound was never the same. I'm not saying it needed to stay the same. I'm glad it evolved into all the treasures that we all got to enjoy. But to say that those two didn't have a musical influence on Prince, I think, is a gross understatement. Horns or no horns.

The sound did change after they were gone...it improved significantly...SOTT is arguably P's greatest lp...and the SOTT band and the NPG were way better live musicians and performers than The Revolution, by a landslide

That, of course, is subjective.

RJOrion said:

Milty2 said:

All I know is that, to my ears, after Wendy and Lisa were gone from the scene, Prince's sound was never the same. I'm not saying it needed to stay the same. I'm glad it evolved into all the treasures that we all got to enjoy. But to say that those two didn't have a musical influence on Prince, I think, is a gross understatement. Horns or no horns.

The sound did change after they were gone...it improved significantly...SOTT is arguably P's greatest lp...and the SOTT band and the NPG were way better live musicians and performers than The Revolution, by a landslide

Times 6ixx.

Gooddoctor23 said:

RJOrion said:

Milty2 said: The sound did change after they were gone...it improved significantly...SOTT is arguably P's greatest lp...and the SOTT band and the NPG were way better live musicians and performers than The Revolution, by a landslide

Times 6ixx.

The Revolution sounds like a high school band when compared to the SOTT band.

BalladofPeterParker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

Times 6ixx.

The Revolution sounds like a high school band when compared to the SOTT band.

Im sorry to say this but the SOTT band never really did justice to the Revolution era material. Never. I gave the live disc from the SOTT SDE a play last week and it rather falls flat. Say what you want about the Revolution but they had more vibe, character and swag than the SOTT band and any incarnation of the NPG. It doesn't make them better, it just makes them more memorable. I went to Berklee College of Music and in my experience, I'd rather play with someone who has competency, nuance and some kind of vibe over playing with any musicians because they are "better".

Milty2 said:

RJOrion said:

Milty2 said:

Im sorry to say this but the SOTT band never really did justice to the Revolution era material. Never. I gave the live disc from the SOTT SDE a play last week and it rather falls flat. Say what you want about the Revolution but they had more vibe, character and swag than the SOTT band and any incarnation of the NPG. It doesn't make them better, it just makes them more memorable. I went to Berklee College of Music and in my experience, I'd rather play with someone who has competency, nuance and some kind of vibe over playing with any musicians because they are "better".

Lol @ The Revolution having more "vibe, character, and swag" than the SOTT band or NPG...Miko Weaver, Sheila E, Sonny T,, Eric Leeds, and even Cat Glover, had so much more "vibe, Character & Swag" and stage presence than the entire Revolution combined...The Revolution's only swag and vibe came from the frontman, Prince Nelson...if Wendy, Lisa, Bobby and Mark had so much seag and vibe and character, how come it was NEVER displayed in their own careers without Prince...even Andre & Dez were far superior to them...stop it, please.

I'm not saying anyone in the SOTT band didn't. I'm just saying that no one outside of fans like anyone on here actually can remember any Prince band other than the Revolution. And Far as I can see is that Wendy and Lisa (and Sheila) were the only Prince associates who actually went on to far and away more success than anyone in the SOTT band after their time with Prince.

All three bands were great, no doubt. But to shit on the Revolution like y'all are doing is silly.

Milty2 said:

RJOrion said:

Milty2 said: Lol @ The Revolution having more "vibe, character, and swag" than the SOTT band or NPG...Miko Weaver, Sheila E, Sonny T,, Eric Leeds, and even Cat Glover, had so much more "vibe, Character & Swag" and stage presence than the entire Revolution combined...The Revolution's only swag and vibe came from the frontman, Prince Nelson...if Wendy, Lisa, Bobby and Mark had so much seag and vibe and character, how come it was NEVER displayed in their own careers without Prince...even Andre & Dez were far superior to them...stop it, please.

I'm not saying anyone in the SOTT band didn't. I'm just saying that no one outside of fans like anyone on here actually can remember any Prince band other than the Revolution. And Far as I can see is that Wendy and Lisa (and Sheila) were the only Prince associates who actually went on to far and away more success than anyone in the SOTT band after their time with Prince.

All three bands were great, no doubt. But to shit on the Revolution like y'all are doing is silly.

This. But don't bother. These people are too wrapped up in their W&L hate.

GaryMF said:

Milty2 said:

I'm not saying anyone in the SOTT band didn't. I'm just saying that no one outside of fans like anyone on here actually can remember any Prince band other than the Revolution. And Far as I can see is that Wendy and Lisa (and Sheila) were the only Prince associates who actually went on to far and away more success than anyone in the SOTT band after their time with Prince.

All three bands were great, no doubt. But to shit on the Revolution like y'all are doing is silly.

This. But don't bother. These people are too wrapped up in their W&L hate.

It's looking like that. I remember when I went I MPLS the week after Prince died, I had to go through Toronto. The US border agent on the Canadian side asked me where I was going, I said "Minnieapolis" and I swear his reaction was amazing. He said "Man, Prince died. That's some messed up shit. You going to hang with the Revolution and all that?"

Note he did not say "the SOTT band" or "NPG". Lol.

Milty2 said:

GaryMF said:

This. But don't bother. These people are too wrapped up in their W&L hate.

It's looking like that. I remember when I went I MPLS the week after Prince died, I had to go through Toronto. The US border agent on the Canadian side asked me where I was going, I said "Minnieapolis" and I swear his reaction was amazing. He said "Man, Prince died. That's some messed up shit. You going to hang with the Revolution and all that?"

Note he did not say "the SOTT band" or "NPG". Lol.

The SOTT band was great. Mainly for Sheila's drumming and presence and Boni's singing. And Miko and Levi are great players.

.

.I never liked the NPS. All configurations were boring . Yes they were technically better players but who cares. Any profl jazz band is going to have technically better players.

.

GaryMF said:

Milty2 said:

It's looking like that. I remember when I went I MPLS the week after Prince died, I had to go through Toronto. The US border agent on the Canadian side asked me where I was going, I said "Minnieapolis" and I swear his reaction was amazing. He said "Man, Prince died. That's some messed up shit. You going to hang with the Revolution and all that?"

Note he did not say "the SOTT band" or "NPG". Lol.

The SOTT band was great. Mainly for Sheila's drumming and presence and Boni's singing. And Miko and Levi are great players.

.

.I never liked the NPS. All configurations were boring . Yes they were technically better players but who cares. Any profl jazz band is going to have technically better players.

.

The best and only NPG is Sonny T., Morris Hayes, Michael B., Tommy Barbarella, and . And that was a stripped down and honed version of the era band. Get rid of the Game Boyz, Levi's out so Prince takes over guitar. And Morris comes in to fill Rosie's keyboard spot. THAT shit was tighter than a 15 year old.

The SOTT band was a thing unto itself much like The Revolution. It was its own era. The NPG seems to be a constantly evolving band. The era of TRC-Musicology and that jazzy trip shit he was on annoyed me to death. WHen I watched them take "Baby I'm A Star" from a jam to some jazzy interlude fit for a casino elevator in Atlantic City, I was done.

BalladofPeterParker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

Times 6ixx.

The Revolution sounds like a high school band when compared to the SOTT band.

Agreed.

It is not even close and I simply cant take anyone seriously who says that it is.

RJOrion said:

Its not Wendy & Lisa that people "hate"...i dont know them to hate them, personally...its the fact that people continuously overvalue their contributions to Prince's legacy...he was a star and a creative genius well before and long after them...they just happened to be there when he was at the top of his commercial success and visibility, and they appeared in his ground breaking and iconic film, so they got more mainstream public exposure than his other bands...but they were clearly his least talented band, musically and visually...that has nothing to do with how i feel about them personally...i dont know those women to have ANY kind of personal opinions of them...their so called haters and detractors have become more concerned with how as time goes by, certain people are rewriting history to glorify and oversell Wendy & Lisa's influence and contributions to Prince's greatness...those people dont do that with BobbyZ , Fink, Eric, Mark, Andre, or Dez...Prince himself was very open in his praise of Sonny T. and Dez influence on his career...much moreso than he did for Wendy & Lisa, whom he FIRED...he didnt fire Andre or Dez...they quit...ive NEVER once heard Prince acknowledge Wendy & Lisa's contributions the way some of the overzealous W&L fans do...and neither has anyone else...because it just didnt happen...thats NOTHING against Wendy & Lisa personally...thats against the people that overhype Wendy & Lisa's relatively minimal contributions to P's already established greatness...Wendy & Lisa themselves have never fixed their lips to say they had more "swag, character, and vibe" than P's other bands ...nor would they. [Edited 7/1/22 21:17pm]

100% accurate.

W&L were the most important collaborators for prince from around 83 until 1987.

those are just the facts.

not the only collaborators, eric leeds was also very key (and should maybe get more credit for this period).

but W&L prob rank a bit higher.

but yes, he had other important collaborators at diff stages.

really though, prince just wrote and created differently depending on who was in the band at the time. thats just normal really. for any musician. so its prety logical to assume that as W&L were with him at that point, he was thinking about them whilst making music.

Gooddoctor23 said:

RJOrion said:

Its not Wendy & Lisa that people "hate"...i dont know them to hate them, personally...its the fact that people continuously overvalue their contributions to Prince's legacy...he was a star and a creative genius well before and long after them...they just happened to be there when he was at the top of his commercial success and visibility, and they appeared in his ground breaking and iconic film, so they got more mainstream public exposure than his other bands...but they were clearly his least talented band, musically and visually...that has nothing to do with how i feel about them personally...i dont know those women to have ANY kind of personal opinions of them...their so called haters and detractors have become more concerned with how as time goes by, certain people are rewriting history to glorify and oversell Wendy & Lisa's influence and contributions to Prince's greatness...those people dont do that with BobbyZ , Fink, Eric, Mark, Andre, or Dez...Prince himself was very open in his praise of Sonny T. and Dez influence on his career...much moreso than he did for Wendy & Lisa, whom he FIRED...he didnt fire Andre or Dez...they quit...ive NEVER once heard Prince acknowledge Wendy & Lisa's contributions the way some of the overzealous W&L fans do...and neither has anyone else...because it just didnt happen...thats NOTHING against Wendy & Lisa personally...thats against the people that overhype Wendy & Lisa's relatively minimal contributions to P's already established greatness...Wendy & Lisa themselves have never fixed their lips to say they had more "swag, character, and vibe" than P's other bands ...nor would they. [Edited 7/1/22 21:17pm]

100% accurate.

Perfectly summed up, RJ.

Let me add that it's sickeningly obvious that a certain demographic of Prince "fans" feel obligated to rip into his legacy regarding his incredible talent and drive. He put in the work! Even more pathetic is the need to diminish him by saying W&L are his main influences, that's laughable. He created on the level of Stevie, Hendrix, Ellington, EWF, and Marley to name a few...W & L aren't even a asterix in his or his peers world.

We know what your trying to do and it's not going to become the narrative.

BalladofPeterParker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

100% accurate.

Perfectly summed up, RJ.

Let me add that it's sickeningly obvious that a certain demographic of Prince "fans" feel obligated to rip into his legacy regarding his incredible talent and drive. He put in the work! Even more pathetic is the need to diminish him by saying W&L are his main influences, that's laughable. He created on the level of Stevie, Hendrix, Ellington, EWF, and Marley to name a few...W & L aren't even a asterix in his or his peers world.

We know what your trying to do and it's not going to become the narrative.

Bingo.

BalladofPeterParker said:

RJOrion said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Perfectly summed up, RJ.

Let me add that it's sickeningly obvious that a certain demographic of Prince "fans" feel obligated to rip into his legacy regarding his incredible talent and drive. He put in the work! Even more pathetic is the need to diminish him by saying W&L are his main influences, that's laughable. He created on the level of Stevie, Hendrix, Ellington, EWF, and Marley to name a few...W & L aren't even a asterix in his or his peers world.

We know what your trying to do and it's not going to become the narrative.

Word...100%...ive been saying similar things since i first registered on this site, but i get called "racist", "homophobic" "childish" "misogynist", "woman hater" and other things here, because i wont buy into their attempts to water down and rewrite Prince's unmatched legacy...and another thing...because of how this thread is speaking truths to that aforementioned certain demographic, this thread will SOON be locked, closed and hidden...happens almost every time...watch.

I feel you. It's shame that this place doesn't celebrate the consummate musician/entertainer Prince was... times have changed and we won't see anything like him in popular music/culture again. The need to tie him down to one moment in time 84-87 and then act like 5 "Ringo's" defined him all the while acting like HIS father, peers from HIS childhood, music from HIS youth, AND HIS undeniable talent are all secondary to his success is the ultimate in blinders wearing bullshit!

Nobody in the real world subscribes to this rewrite.

BalladofPeterParker said:

RJOrion said:

BalladofPeterParker said: Word...100%...ive been saying similar things since i first registered on this site, but i get called "racist", "homophobic" "childish" "misogynist", "woman hater" and other things here, because i wont buy into their attempts to water down and rewrite Prince's unmatched legacy...and another thing...because of how this thread is speaking truths to that aforementioned certain demographic, this thread will SOON be locked, closed and hidden...happens almost every time...watch.

I feel you. It's shame that this place doesn't celebrate the consummate musician/entertainer Prince was... times have changed and we won't see anything like him in popular music/culture again. The need to tie him down to one moment in time 84-87 and then act like 5 "Ringo's" defined him all the while acting like HIS father, peers from HIS childhood, music from HIS youth, AND HIS undeniable talent are all secondary to his success is the ultimate in blinders wearing bullshit!

Nobody in the real world subscribes to this rewrite.

Man, between the 2 of U, I don't need 2 say a damn word.

U nailed it 100%

[Edited 7/2/22 11:04am]

RJOrion said:

Its not Wendy & Lisa that people "hate"...i dont know them to hate them, personally...its the fact that people continuously overvalue their contributions to Prince's legacy...he was a star and a creative genius well before and long after them...they just happened to be there when he was at the top of his commercial success and visibility, and they appeared in his ground breaking and iconic film, so they got more mainstream public exposure than his other bands...but they were clearly his least talented band, musically and visually...that has nothing to do with how i feel about them personally...]

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.

.

Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".

.

And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.

.

The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:

.

.

1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.

.

2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.

.

.

It's really not that hard.

[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]

GaryMF said:

RJOrion said:

Its not Wendy & Lisa that people "hate"...i dont know them to hate them, personally...its the fact that people continuously overvalue their contributions to Prince's legacy...he was a star and a creative genius well before and long after them...they just happened to be there when he was at the top of his commercial success and visibility, and they appeared in his ground breaking and iconic film, so they got more mainstream public exposure than his other bands...but they were clearly his least talented band, musically and visually...that has nothing to do with how i feel about them personally...]

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.

.

Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".

.

And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.

.

The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:

.

.

1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.

.

2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.

.

.

It's really not that hard.

[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

BalladofPeterParker said:

GaryMF said:

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.

.

Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".

.

And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.

.

The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:

.

.

1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.

.

2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.

.

.

It's really not that hard.

[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Not going 2 happen.