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Reply #90 posted 07/02/22 11:47am

BalladofPeterP
arker

Gooddoctor23 said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Not going 2 happen.

No ...don't think it will either.

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Reply #91 posted 07/02/22 11:57am

RJOrion

BalladofPeterParker said:



GaryMF said:




RJOrion said:


Its not Wendy & Lisa that people "hate"...i dont know them to hate them, personally...its the fact that people continuously overvalue their contributions to Prince's legacy...he was a star and a creative genius well before and long after them...they just happened to be there when he was at the top of his commercial success and visibility, and they appeared in his ground breaking and iconic film, so they got more mainstream public exposure than his other bands...but they were clearly his least talented band, musically and visually...that has nothing to do with how i feel about them personally...]

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.


.



Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".


.



And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.


.



The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:


.


.


1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.


.



2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.


.


.




It's really not that hard.


[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]



Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."



Word...when they refer to the names (and others) you mentioned, here's how members of a certain demographic respond:

"Sheila E is a liar"
"Brownmark is a liar"
"Morris was a drug addict"
"Jesse is bitter and dusgruntled"
"Cat Glover is an ignorant and profane liar and shes batshit crazy"
"Chazz Smith (P's cousin and original drummer in his first band) is a liar what does he know?.he wasnt there"
"Ida is a way better bass player than Andre"
"Josh Welton is a talentless hack...why did P let him help produce?..he was just hanging out at Paisley babysitting Donna and running errands"

Ive seen all of that stuff here, submitted by numerous org members, and it displays an ugly and eye opening recurring pattern.
[Edited 7/2/22 11:58am]
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Reply #92 posted 07/02/22 12:11pm

Gooddoctor23

RJOrion said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Word...when they refer to the names (and others) you mentioned, here's how members of a certain demographic respond: "Sheila E is a liar" "Brownmark is a liar" "Morris was a drug addict" "Jesse is bitter and dusgruntled" "Cat Glover is an ignorant and profane liar and shes batshit crazy" "Chazz Smith (P's cousin and original drummer in his first band) is a liar what does he know?.he wasnt there" "Ida is a way better bass player than Andre" "Josh Welton is a talentless hack...why did P let him help produce?..he was just hanging out at Paisley babysitting Donna and running errands" Ive seen all of that stuff here, submitted by numerous org members, and it displays an ugly and eye opening recurring pattern. [Edited 7/2/22 11:58am]

Receipts.......

99.9% of everything u have been taught, is 99.9% B.S.
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Reply #93 posted 07/02/22 12:13pm

BalladofPeterP
arker

RJOrion said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Word...when they refer to the names (and others) you mentioned, here's how members of a certain demographic respond: "Sheila E is a liar" "Brownmark is a liar" "Morris was a drug addict" "Jesse is bitter and dusgruntled" "Cat Glover is an ignorant and profane liar and shes batshit crazy" "Chazz Smith (P's cousin and original drummer in his first band) is a liar what does he know?.he wasnt there" "Ida is a way better bass player than Andre" "Josh Welton is a talentless hack...why did P let him help produce?..he was just hanging out at Paisley babysitting Donna and running errands" Ive seen all of that stuff here, submitted by numerous org members, and it displays an ugly and eye opening recurring pattern. [Edited 7/2/22 11:58am]

Yep I've seen it too. Anyone that doesn't fit the para-dig-me (paradigm) is invalid. It's a joke and nothing new (see Jimi Hendrix Experience vs the Band of Gypsy's haters). Anytime the "noble savage"becomes successful it's because of his "benefactors".

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Reply #94 posted 07/02/22 12:37pm

RJOrion

BalladofPeterParker said:



RJOrion said:


BalladofPeterParker said:


Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."



Word...when they refer to the names (and others) you mentioned, here's how members of a certain demographic respond: "Sheila E is a liar" "Brownmark is a liar" "Morris was a drug addict" "Jesse is bitter and dusgruntled" "Cat Glover is an ignorant and profane liar and shes batshit crazy" "Chazz Smith (P's cousin and original drummer in his first band) is a liar what does he know?.he wasnt there" "Ida is a way better bass player than Andre" "Josh Welton is a talentless hack...why did P let him help produce?..he was just hanging out at Paisley babysitting Donna and running errands" Ive seen all of that stuff here, submitted by numerous org members, and it displays an ugly and eye opening recurring pattern. [Edited 7/2/22 11:58am]

Yep I've seen it too. Anyone that doesn't fit the para-dig-me (paradigm) is invalid. It's a joke and nothing new (see Jimi Hendrix Experience vs the Band of Gypsy's haters). Anytime the "noble savage"becomes successful it's because of his "benefactors".



Wow...weird coincidence...ive been in my jimi hendrix bag all week...just got finished listening to "Message To Love" while cleaning the house...and that comparison (Experience vs Band Of Gypsys) is a perfect analogy for this thread...100%
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Reply #95 posted 07/02/22 1:16pm

BalladofPeterP
arker

RJOrion said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Yep I've seen it too. Anyone that doesn't fit the para-dig-me (paradigm) is invalid. It's a joke and nothing new (see Jimi Hendrix Experience vs the Band of Gypsy's haters). Anytime the "noble savage"becomes successful it's because of his "benefactors".

Wow...weird coincidence...ive been in my jimi hendrix bag all week...just got finished listening to "Message To Love" while cleaning the house...and that comparison (Experience vs Band Of Gypsys) is a perfect analogy for this thread...100%

I FEEL YA! The Band of Gypsys ended way too soon and many believe it wasn't by accident. Jimi easily out grew the experience band members, moved on to play with his buddies (Cox and Miles) and was talking to Miles Davis and others trying to take his music even further ....sound like anyone we know?

They would not be held back by fans that just wanted Purple Haze or Purple Rain.That's what makes them all time greats as opposed to overhyped sidemen (or sidewomen)

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Reply #96 posted 07/02/22 2:32pm

Milty2

BalladofPeterParker said:

GaryMF said:

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.

.

Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".

.

And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.

.

The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:

.

.

1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.

.

2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.

.

.

It's really not that hard.

[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.

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Reply #97 posted 07/02/22 3:35pm

GaryMF

avatar

BalladofPeterParker said:

GaryMF said:

First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.

.

Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".

.

And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.

.

The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:

.

.

1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.

.

2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.

.

.

It's really not that hard.

[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Look at my avatar! I'm a HUGE fan of Sheila and the others you mention! smile

rainbow
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Reply #98 posted 07/02/22 3:40pm

BalladofPeterP
arker

GaryMF said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

Look at my avatar! I'm a HUGE fan of Sheila and the others you mention! smile

I'll take you at your word, G. biggrin

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Reply #99 posted 07/02/22 3:54pm

BalladofPeterP
arker

Milty2 said:

BalladofPeterParker said:

Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."

No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.

"We know nothing."

WTF is this passive aggressive bullshit?? I'm out, Milton. Text me when W&L 6 CD + 2 Blu Ray Super Deluxe box set comes out on December 32nd.

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Reply #100 posted 07/02/22 4:37pm

Gooddoctor23

BalladofPeterParker said:

Milty2 said:

No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.

"We know nothing."

WTF is this passive aggressive bullshit?? I'm out, Milton. Text me when W&L 6 CD + 2 Blu Ray Super Deluxe box set comes out on December 32nd.

lol........

99.9% of everything u have been taught, is 99.9% B.S.
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Reply #101 posted 07/02/22 4:54pm

Milty2

BalladofPeterParker said:

Milty2 said:

No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.

"We know nothing."

WTF is this passive aggressive bullshit?? I'm out, Milton. Text me when W&L 6 CD + 2 Blu Ray Super Deluxe box set comes out on December 32nd.


Mate, you're the one actually being aggressive. Read your own posts.

[Edited 7/2/22 18:12pm]

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Reply #102 posted 07/02/22 7:18pm

RJOrion

BalladofPeterParker said:



Milty2 said:




BalladofPeterParker said:



Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."



No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.



"We know nothing."



WTF is this passive aggressive bullshit?? I'm out, Milton. Text me when W&L 6 CD + 2 Blu Ray Super Deluxe box set comes out on December 32nd.



December 32, 19ninety-never
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Reply #103 posted 07/03/22 7:33am

LoveGalore

Milty2 said:



BalladofPeterParker said:




GaryMF said:



First, maybe some people do, but it's more accurate to say that when people ACCURATELY describe their influence, for example, by stating facts like Prince sent them tapes and said "do something with it"..... people on here FREAK OUT at the merest hint that they had any influence on him.


.



Exhibit A is the statement in red. They by all accounts--including Prince himself--- did not "just happened to be there".


.



And the green statement is quite ironic, because your statement that they were "talented musically and visually" is EXACTLY how YOU feel about them. That is a subjective statement, since visual (especially) and musical talent are somewhat subjective.


.



The whole thing boils down to this: most of y'all find it hard to understand that multpile things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:


.


.


1. Prince was a musical genius before, during and after he worked with W&L.


.



2. W&L had SOME (repeat, SOME!) influence on his work between 83-87.


.


.




It's really not that hard.


[Edited 7/2/22 11:01am]



Fair enough,Gary. I hear you but let's make sure Sheila E. , Andre, Dez, Morris, Jesse, even Fink and others get the same respect. As you put it: "It's really not that hard."



No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.



We know nothing about what? Have you read the books on Prince? We know quite a bit.

We know Prince used to leave tapes for Dez to play and write on before W&L yet they always get touted as being the first folks so close.

We know Prince and Morris, Prince and Andre, and Prince and Levi wrote wrote and recorded together too - sometimes for way longer than he did W&L.

We know a lot which is why it's hilarious when certain people (mostly Revolution fans or just W&L fans or W&L&S&S themselves want to gobble up all the inspiration real estate in princes legacy.
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Reply #104 posted 07/03/22 7:45am

Milty2

LoveGalore said:

Milty2 said:

No one is denying those other band members anything. Plus and most importantly, no one on the Org knows anything to be honest. We all talk like we were in the writing room and the recording studio when this music was created. We know nothing.

We know nothing about what? Have you read the books on Prince? We know quite a bit. We know Prince used to leave tapes for Dez to play and write on before W&L yet they always get touted as being the first folks so close. We know Prince and Morris, Prince and Andre, and Prince and Levi wrote wrote and recorded together too - sometimes for way longer than he did W&L. We know a lot which is why it's hilarious when certain people (mostly Revolution fans or just W&L fans or W&L&S&S themselves want to gobble up all the inspiration real estate in princes legacy.


Lol well that's why way back in Reply #6 I said

"In the book The Rise and Fall of Prince, (not to say that is fact but) it's Prince's relationship to Wendy and Lisa that exposes him to other kinds of music which leads him to employing brass and woodwinds going forward."

After that, a few of you had an attack of the shits and jumped on here like those demon bats from Stranger Things.

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Reply #105 posted 07/03/22 7:55am

Gooddoctor23

Milty2 said:

LoveGalore said:

Milty2 said: We know nothing about what? Have you read the books on Prince? We know quite a bit. We know Prince used to leave tapes for Dez to play and write on before W&L yet they always get touted as being the first folks so close. We know Prince and Morris, Prince and Andre, and Prince and Levi wrote wrote and recorded together too - sometimes for way longer than he did W&L. We know a lot which is why it's hilarious when certain people (mostly Revolution fans or just W&L fans or W&L&S&S themselves want to gobble up all the inspiration real estate in princes legacy.


Lol well that's why way back in Reply #6 I said

"In the book The Rise and Fall of Prince, (not to say that is fact but) it's Prince's relationship to Wendy and Lisa that exposes him to other kinds of music which leads him to employing brass and woodwinds going forward."

After that, a few of you had an attack of the shits and jumped on here like those demon bats from Stranger Things.

Stop the nonsense. They are quite a few people on here that actually KNEW Prince.

99.9% of everything u have been taught, is 99.9% B.S.
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Reply #106 posted 07/03/22 8:37am

Milty2

Gooddoctor23 said:

Milty2 said:


Lol well that's why way back in Reply #6 I said

"In the book The Rise and Fall of Prince, (not to say that is fact but) it's Prince's relationship to Wendy and Lisa that exposes him to other kinds of music which leads him to employing brass and woodwinds going forward."

After that, a few of you had an attack of the shits and jumped on here like those demon bats from Stranger Things.

Stop the nonsense. They are quite a few people on here that actually KNEW Prince.


Lol I didn't, you obviously didn't. My guess, based on the responses to reply #6, is that no one on this thread did. I only know Prince through what I hear in his words and music. Other than that, it's all speculation but the SECOND one of his former band mates or associates says anything in any interview, y'all jump on them and rip them a new one. For the equal amount of hatred towards W&L there is an equal amount of hatred for Sheila E. and so and so on.

Hive mind? Definitely not. Stranger Things indeed.

[Edited 7/3/22 9:22am]

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Reply #107 posted 07/03/22 9:41am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

the problem is not that dez, or levi, or kirky j had a longer influence, or as important an influence, its that the period W&L had some influence was the period many people (fans, critics, whoever) regard as being his greatest period musically. so yes, levi worked with him a long time, josh welton obv had some influence, as did andre cymone or dez, but no one tends to say those periods are his greatest (id say the early 80s is close though). therefore, the battle to determine who was the most influential collaborator doesnt really gain much speed as the other periods arent thought of as being in competition.

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Reply #108 posted 07/03/22 10:52am

Milty2

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the problem is not that dez, or levi, or kirky j had a longer influence, or as important an influence, its that the period W&L had some influence was the period many people (fans, critics, whoever) regard as being his greatest period musically. so yes, levi worked with him a long time, josh welton obv had some influence, as did andre cymone or dez, but no one tends to say those periods are his greatest (id say the early 80s is close though). therefore, the battle to determine who was the most influential collaborator doesnt really gain much speed as the other periods arent thought of as being in competition.

I think that's agreeable. Prince was the ultimate driver of his music, I'm sure there is no dispute there. But to completely dump on this person or that person because they said in an interview that they worked on this song or that song with Prince is silly. None of us were there, we know nothing beyond the interviews and books we've all read. Prince didn't really talk about his writing and recording processes anyway and so the only ppl we can rely on for that are his bands, engineers and whoever else that was in the room. When he was alive, I don't recall many of these ppl talking about it (maybe out of fear or respect) but now they have license to do so. It's just so silly how we believe that Prince was 100% infallible.

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Reply #109 posted 07/03/22 4:13pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

I really enjoyed Eric Leeds in "Delirious" on the LIVE set.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #110 posted 07/03/22 7:18pm

Milty2

TrivialPursuit said:

I really enjoyed Eric Leeds in "Delirious" on the LIVE set.

Whatever Eric touches turns to gold in my view. Also, Kathy Jensen is no slouch either. I'm actually surprised that Prince didn't make her more of a personality like Candy or Eric.

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Reply #111 posted 07/03/22 7:40pm

LoveGalore

Milty2 said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


the problem is not that dez, or levi, or kirky j had a longer influence, or as important an influence, its that the period W&L had some influence was the period many people (fans, critics, whoever) regard as being his greatest period musically. so yes, levi worked with him a long time, josh welton obv had some influence, as did andre cymone or dez, but no one tends to say those periods are his greatest (id say the early 80s is close though). therefore, the battle to determine who was the most influential collaborator doesnt really gain much speed as the other periods arent thought of as being in competition.



I think that's agreeable. Prince was the ultimate driver of his music, I'm sure there is no dispute there. But to completely dump on this person or that person because they said in an interview that they worked on this song or that song with Prince is silly. None of us were there, we know nothing beyond the interviews and books we've all read. Prince didn't really talk about his writing and recording processes anyway and so the only ppl we can rely on for that are his bands, engineers and whoever else that was in the room. When he was alive, I don't recall many of these ppl talking about it (maybe out of fear or respect) but now they have license to do so. It's just so silly how we believe that Prince was 100% infallible.



Nobody says Prince was infallible.

People pushback when W&L stans (or W&L+ themselves) make wild claims that cannot possibly be true. Not that maybe aren't true. But would be impossible. And then the fans say "Prince wasn't infallible"? That was never the point.

And the commercial aspect of the Revolution isn't interesting to me. Folks keep moving the goalposts. So critics matter now? Sales matter now? Okay.
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Reply #112 posted 07/03/22 8:08pm

Milty2

LoveGalore said:

Milty2 said:

I think that's agreeable. Prince was the ultimate driver of his music, I'm sure there is no dispute there. But to completely dump on this person or that person because they said in an interview that they worked on this song or that song with Prince is silly. None of us were there, we know nothing beyond the interviews and books we've all read. Prince didn't really talk about his writing and recording processes anyway and so the only ppl we can rely on for that are his bands, engineers and whoever else that was in the room. When he was alive, I don't recall many of these ppl talking about it (maybe out of fear or respect) but now they have license to do so. It's just so silly how we believe that Prince was 100% infallible.

Nobody says Prince was infallible. People pushback when W&L stans (or W&L+ themselves) make wild claims that cannot possibly be true. Not that maybe aren't true. But would be impossible. And then the fans say "Prince wasn't infallible"? That was never the point. And the commercial aspect of the Revolution isn't interesting to me. Folks keep moving the goalposts. So critics matter now? Sales matter now? Okay.


Im not a W&L Stan. I don't know what claims they have made that has certain ppl up in arms. I'm certainly not moving any goalposts. I simply referenced something that was in a book (reply 6) and some ppl shat their pants over it.

I don't get the hate towards W&L or even Sheila for that matter. And yes, many ppl on here think that Prince was this infallible being.

Anyway, let's get back to the saxophone, shall we?

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