Gooddoctor23 said:

Milty2 said:

In the book The Rise and Fall of Prince, (not to say that is fact but) it's Prince's relationship to Wendy and Lisa that exposes him to other kinds of music which leads him to employing brass and woodwinds going forward.

lol..........except Prince was listening 2 James Brown, Sly & the Ohio Players before he ever heard of Wendy & Lisa.

Stop it.

And so for the reactionary on here, again, I did say "not to say that is fact". Yes Prince definitely was already listening to other bands that had horns and so no W&L did not make him use horns but it's also widely held that W&L did musically influence him especially Lisa.

A little less reacting and a little more debating goes a long way.

LoveGalore said:

Milty2 said:

In the book The Rise and Fall of Prince, (not to say that is fact but) it's Prince's relationship to Wendy and Lisa that exposes him to other kinds of music which leads him to employing brass and woodwinds going forward.

We know this is bullshit and just a marketing thing that has taken on a life of its own.

100%

Milty2 said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

lol..........except Prince was listening 2 James Brown, Sly & the Ohio Players before he ever heard of Wendy & Lisa.

Stop it.

And so for the reactionary on here, again, I did say "not to say that is fact". Yes Prince definitely was already listening to other bands that had horns and so no W&L did not make him use horns but it's also widely held that W&L did musically influence him especially Lisa.

A little less reacting and a little more debating goes a long way.

I don't debate nonsense.

This is nothing against u, but the notion that W&L impacted Prince as it relates 2 horns is laughable.

Not sure where my comment may wander, but that Eric Leeds solo on "Hot Thing" is just awesome.

You can even hear Prince's approval "WOOOOO" in the extended version.

I saw him once here on tour with R.A.D. and told him he was the best sax player i ever witnessed

Gooddoctor23 said:

the notion that W&L impacted Prince as it relates 2 horns is laughable.

.

and the notion that working with W&L and meeting their families influenced him to explore other paths he wouldn't have done otherwise? And that that led to him adding different instruments to his music, including horns?

.

Seems laughable to try and dismiss that to me.

.

We don't have to go overboard and say that W&L invented Prince, but the fact that they impacted his music more than most people with him in the first 10 years of his career (apart from maybe Andre Cymone) is well established by now from interviews with everyone around in those days, including Prince himself.

.

Doesn't mean that Prince wasn't the one responsible for his music, but W&L did show him some cookbooks he hadn't experimented with in his kitchen. Seems like it led to him rereading the cookbooks he had already mastered to blend the new tastes with what he already knew and it led to some tasty morsels...

[Edited 6/24/22 11:48am]

there was a point when the horns really added something to his music, but after a certain point, they just *seemed* to become a staple, that were always there, regardless of whether they were always needed. i know he loved a lot of big 70s bands who had huge horn sections, but for me, it seemed to lead to a kind of predictability in his music. horns werent always needed. or maybe it was the use of the horns, not the fact he had horns.

as for W&L, its really just that whoever was in his band at the time, they would have some influence on what he was writing at the time. same way that dez had an influence on the new wavey/punky stuff prince was doing around 1980, W&L made prince consider some diff stuff he wouldnt have without them there. its a tricky thing to be able to pinpoint, but its def a common thing with any band/musical collaboration.

mediumdry said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

the notion that W&L impacted Prince as it relates 2 horns is laughable.

.

and the notion that working with W&L and meeting their families influenced him to explore other paths he wouldn't have done otherwise? And that that led to him adding different instruments to his music, including horns?

.

Seems laughable to try and dismiss that to me.

.

We don't have to go overboard and say that W&L invented Prince, but the fact that they impacted his music more than most people with him in the first 10 years of his career (apart from maybe Andre Cymone) is well established by now from interviews with everyone around in those days, including Prince himself.

.

Doesn't mean that Prince wasn't the one responsible for his music, but W&L did show him some cookbooks he hadn't experimented with in his kitchen. Seems like it led to him rereading the cookbooks he had already mastered to blend the new tastes with what he already knew and it led to some tasty morsels...

[Edited 6/24/22 11:48am]

Prince used keyboards in place of horns. This is just bullshit. Prince's dad was a jazz bandleader.

You don't think he already had varied musical influences in his blood.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

there was a point when the horns really added something to his music, but after a certain point, they just *seemed* to become a staple, that were always there, regardless of whether they were always needed. i know he loved a lot of big 70s bands who had huge horn sections, but for me, it seemed to lead to a kind of predictability in his music. horns werent always needed. or maybe it was the use of the horns, not the fact he had horns.

as for W&L, its really just that whoever was in his band at the time, they would have some influence on what he was writing at the time. same way that dez had an influence on the new wavey/punky stuff prince was doing around 1980, W&L made prince consider some diff stuff he wouldnt have without them there. its a tricky thing to be able to pinpoint, but its def a common thing with any band/musical collaboration.

While I loved what Eric and Atlanta brought to his music on record, I didn't like that their presense on tour meant that horns would be added to every song played live. For example, I hated the addition of horns to "When Doves Cried".

RJOrion said:

Prince wasnt potty trained until Wendy & Lisa joined his band.

Wendy and Lisa are (obviously) Prince's time traveling hermaphrodite parents. In another time they were Miles Davis (Wendy) and Dizzy Gillespie (Lisa)... their torrid love affair turned the jazz world on it's ear! Forced into seclusion they changed their identities to John L & Mattie and gave birth to our beloved Prince. History is incomplete on who he actually came out of but my money is on Wendy!

[Edited 6/25/22 9:57am]

[Edited 6/25/22 9:58am]

BalladofPeterParker said:

RJOrion said:

Prince wasnt potty trained until Wendy & Lisa joined his band.

Wendy and Lisa are (obviously) Prince's time traveling hermaphrodite parents. In another time they were Miles Davis (Wendy) and Dizzy Gillespie (Lisa)... their torrid love affair turned the jazz world on it's ear! Forced into seclusion they changed their identities to John L & Mattie and gave birth to our beloved Prince. History is incomplete on who he actually came out of but my money is on Wendy!

[Edited 6/25/22 9:57am]

[Edited 6/25/22 9:58am]

Additional studies hint that Wendy may also be Jimi Hendrix but it's unconfirmed at this time.

The immaturity on here is sad.

.

.

It's obvious W&L has SOME influence on him, not about horns but more on the directions he took on ATWIAD and Parade.

.

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Plus they were one of the only ones besides Eric he said "go take this tape and put something on it in the studio" without him.

.

.

But if anyone acknowledges these moderate facts, you have to go all "stop saying Prince is nothing without W&L!!!". No one is doing that. And it just looks pathetic.

GaryMF said:

RJOrion said:

GaryMF said:

The immaturity on here is sad.

.

.

It's obvious W&L has SOME influence on him, not about horns but more on the directions he took on ATWIAD and Parade.

.

.

Plus they were one of the only ones besides Eric he said "go take this tape and put something on it in the studio" without him.

.

.

But if anyone acknowledges these moderate facts, you have to go all "stop saying Prince is nothing without W&L!!!". No one is doing that. And it just looks pathetic.

"On the 7th Day, God ended his work and rested; while Wendy & Lisa created music...God sanctified them, and blessed them to find a Prince on Earth to perform their creations for future civilizations to embrace and enjoy." Book Of Susan 19:99-17

lol.......crazy.

W&L impacted prine's use of horns.........lolololololololo

RJOrion said:

Prince wasnt potty trained until Wendy & Lisa joined his band.

They probably influenced him 2 start playing Rock & Roll.

Gooddoctor23 said:

RJOrion said:

Prince wasnt potty trained until Wendy & Lisa joined his band.

They probably influenced him 2 start playing Rock & Roll.

Lisa convinced Prince to try pu$$y and he was hooked!!! Blame her!!!

GaryMF said:

The immaturity on here is sad.

.

.

It's obvious W&L has SOME influence on him, not about horns but more on the directions he took on ATWIAD and Parade.

.

.

Plus they were one of the only ones besides Eric he said "go take this tape and put something on it in the studio" without him.

.

.

But if anyone acknowledges these moderate facts, you have to go all "stop saying Prince is nothing without W&L!!!". No one is doing that. And it just looks pathetic.

It comes off as doing EXACTLY that.

BalladofPeterParker said:

And just like that, y'all proved my point. Grow up.

GaryMF said:

GaryMF said:

And just like that, y'all proved my point. Grow up.

lol........u dont have a point.

I think to suggest that Prince had a low awareness of horns in music pre 1984 is likely misguided. Perhaps it could be as simple as the notion that P didnt play horns himself and didnt really involve band members in studio recordings much early on.

Everytime he wanted that horn sound he reached for the synth and moved on...

[Edited 6/25/22 23:18pm]

its not that he had no awareness of horns.

he actively did not WANT them.

he knew big horn sections were popular in the late 70s, but he rejected horns on his first album purposely.

he did not want to have them.

end of.

as he wanted to expand his sound, and work in different styles and influences, he obviously changed his mind.

i dont anyone could say W&L contributed to him using horns - their influence was more about a different approach, more whimsy, more artsiness, influences outside his usual base, they connected on their shared joni mitchell fandom, they, in short, brought more influences from (white) rock, indie, avant-garde/progressive/alternative stuff. on a more tangible level, if you had no lisa, youd have no david coleman, and no arabic influences on ATWIAD or finger percussion on the early we can funk for example.

GaryMF said:

LoveGalore said:

GaryMF said:

And just like that, y'all proved my point. Grow up.

This topic has been done to death. Time to have a bit of fun with it. Besides, aren't you grateful Wendy wrote Soft & Wet? Or that Susannah introduced Prince to drum machines?

Everyone has taken my post in an entirely different direction and it's not fun anymore. Maybe I'm too cerebral on things. I was never going to get into W&L influence or whatever. I was trying to pinpoint the genesis of it, and how it changed Prince's pop sensibilities to himself and to the public.

Some of you really have extremely poor reading comprehension skills.

.

.

I clearly disputed the idea of W&L influencing Prince re: horns.

.

.

But as you soon as you hear "W&L" in any positive light, you start with the hyperbolic, childish reactions.

.

.

This will most likley go over your heads, but it reminds me of the Seinfeld quote, of Elaine telling George:

"You know, just admitting a man is good looking, doesn't necessarily make you gay!"

[Edited 6/26/22 12:27pm]

TrivialPursuit said:

GaryMF said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Even as long as most of us have been Prince fans and perhaps were fans from near the beginning of his career, it almost seems normal to think about sax in Prince's music. But in reality, his first six albums didn't have a saxophone on them.

Then before Around The World In A Day comes out, he's already added Eric Leeds to the band during certain songs. He's on stage by "Delirious," the second song in the set. I'd never heard him during that long not the precedes "Delirious," but with the new remaster, you can hear him. Now, it just seems to natural to hear a sax playing the hook to that song. But on the 1999 Tour, it wasn't there.

It's interesting since the songs he gave to others did have saxophone on them. The famous Larry Williams played the sax on "The Glamorous Life." A lot of whatshername's music had a sax built in, and was certainly played in her shows with Eddie M. at the helm. Then by the time the PR tour happens, there are two sax players on stage during "I Would Die 4 U," and "Baby I'm A Star."

So it definitely seems like the most obvious and natural progression in his music around this time. And a lot of that probably came from just wanting to stretch himself and his music more, open it up and explore new things, all which landed squarely in Around The World In A Day.

I don't know if it's him watching folks like James Brown, or Earth Wind & Fire have horns, or whatever, but you almost can't imagine a Prince song without some horns in it. (Obviously not every song, but you get it.)

In all honestly I think Prince just gave up the idea of doing himself. He knew it was time......and just added the real horns element.

I remember back in 84 having a conversation about this very topic and looked at my college roomate and said, "when the hell is Prince going 2 add a real damn brass section". Imagine my surprise on the very next album.