Concerning the W&L thing, and what he apparently also did to The Time members...

That's what you get when someone like Prince finds it so hard, impossible even to just simply communicate through words in confrontation.

He once even said that all he had to say was in his songs (that were more riddles than anything else). And it is always one side of the story.

He hated chatting in interviews, even threatened to walk away if anyone came too close.

To me, his flee into religion seemed a reality to avoid confrontation with himself.

I always had it hard with religion in general.

People who believe often seek shelter in a group to be able to be outspoken against whatever - a as if they need a backup for unsolved matters.

It's no wonder to me that Prince sort of hid himself in recording and performing, which is known.

Almost autistic, with a strong tendecy for dictatorship. I know, i'll be bashed for stating this...

Don't get me wrong, never met the guy, all this is all assumption of the highest level of course.

I often wonder if Prince actually loved himself enough in addition to (t)his egoistic behaviour.

Being gay as I am (too) rather puts you in a position to confront life or stay behind.

There basiclaly is no hiding once you're 'out'.

And I'm happy and out since my early teens. Never had any diffcuties in my life being gay.

I wonder if Prince had staff around him at PP that were openly gay, or people with strong other believes for instance.

Yes, he was able to appreciate people first and foremost for their talents, that is undoubtedly known.

So at least he had the ability to rely on that.

But isn't that what makes Prince again so fucking interesting ?

As he faught to be taken serious as a normal human being, to me, he remained that reclusive front stage rock star, anxiously trying to hide his persona to all costs in private.

Indeed so sad we didn't get the chance to get to know the real Prince through his unfinished memoires.

And then again, I think he did not wanted to show us who he really was.

It seemed as he had a new story to tell, some new 'truth', some conviction, some enlightment maybe, in development...

Prince could be cheap.. he had abandonment issues, he didn't want to pay people because they should stay because they loved him. At the same time, he was very generous, yes, contradicting. Also, he borrowed heavily from gay culture in the beginning of his career, in part just to stir controversy. He wanted people to talk about him and wonder about him. At the same time, he did have some issues with gay people, but mostly gay women, it seemed. Prince did mention to W&L they should change their lifestyle. (around Rainbow Children era, iirc) He also always played Bambi (a song telling a gay women it's better straight) whenever the gay sister from the band Lois Lane was in the audience, as some kind of message to her.

.

And then there is one of his last released songs. Da Bourgeoisie, calling out a bi-sexual lover for going out with a woman again "the dirty world".

.

So... from the start of his career with Bambi until the end with Da Bourgeoisie he had "anti" gay songs. I guess he didn't mind men doing it with other men, as he wasn't into them anyway. (still not sure what to make of the vague hints Morris Day gave in his book though) But women with other women where he couldn't take part as well... that wasn't cool. We did get some great songs out of it though!

TrivialPursuit said:

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said: They're right though. Prince wasn't anywhere near ball culture. Wouldn't even know what one is until that movie and by then he was making his moves toward more masculine presentation.

I never said he was.

You also never told me you had grape jam all over your fingers right now, but I know what I know.

DotsofU said:

Paris is Burning is my favorite movie of all time... even more than PR and UTCM....

Paisley Park will be screening it on January 15th

I think this is VERY COOL...

BUT.......

Even though I excuse him (and I shouldn't) = I don't think Prince liked gay people very much.. at least later Prince didn't .....

I actually love that it is a little bit of a F*ck You to him after gay people supported and more importantly = stuck by him even in the lean years...

Anyone else think it is an 'interesting' choice?

Yeah Prince would not have used Paisley Park to show this documentary

I don't think his spot should be used as a FUCK YOU to him.

YOU ARE CORRECT PRINCE WOULD NOT SHOW THIS GARBAGE AT PP

P DIDNT HATE ANYONE BUT HE KNEW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG

P WOULD NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE WOKE GARBAGE GOING ON TODAY.

TruthBomb said:

I know one thing, he def used our community trends to his own personality weather it was Dirty Mind clothing, sensual dancing with NPG members during the D&P era or his heavy make up he wore when no other men except our community was doing that.

[Edited 12/7/21 9:32am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

DotsofU said:

Paris is Burning is my favorite movie of all time... even more than PR and UTCM....

Paisley Park will be screening it on January 15th

I think this is VERY COOL...

BUT.......

Even though I excuse him (and I shouldn't) = I don't think Prince liked gay people very much.. at least later Prince didn't .....

I actually love that it is a little bit of a F*ck You to him after gay people supported and more importantly = stuck by him even in the lean years...

Anyone else think it is an 'interesting' choice?

Yeah Prince would not have used Paisley Park to show this documentary

I don't think his spot should be used as a FUCK YOU to him.

I see it less as a "FUCK YOU" to Prince altogether and more of a "FUCK YOU" to his narrow-minded homophobic leanings, and I see no issue with Paisley Park being an openly inclusive place to modern day people. Leave that bigotry bullshit in the past where it belongs.

mbdtyler said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah Prince would not have used Paisley Park to show this documentary

I don't think his spot should be used as a FUCK YOU to him.

I see it less as a "FUCK YOU" to Prince altogether and more of a "FUCK YOU" to his narrow-minded homophobic leanings, and I see no issue with Paisley Park being an openly inclusive place to modern day people. Leave that bigotry bullshit in the past where it belongs.

It's still his place though

It's like when fans were upset at having Jesse Johnson perform at PP after the things he said which was like a F You to Prince

It's Prince and his place, his opinions beliefs etc

You cannot turn his place into something he never intended for it to be

LoveGalore said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I never said he was.

You also never told me you had grape jam all over your fingers right now, but I know what I know.

It's homemade strawberry preserves, thankyouverymuch.

TruthBomb said:

YOU ARE CORRECT PRINCE WOULD NOT SHOW THIS GARBAGE AT PP

P DIDNT HATE ANYONE BUT HE KNEW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG

P WOULD NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE WOKE GARBAGE GOING ON TODAY.

So gay and trans people and drag culture is garbage. Okay then.

And I get messages or snips from mods about going overboard for calling folks out for being racist or homophobic, but THIS is okay.

GOT IT.

OldFriends4Sale said:

mbdtyler said:

I see it less as a "FUCK YOU" to Prince altogether and more of a "FUCK YOU" to his narrow-minded homophobic leanings, and I see no issue with Paisley Park being an openly inclusive place to modern day people. Leave that bigotry bullshit in the past where it belongs.

It's still his place though

It's like when fans were upset at having Jesse Johnson perform at PP after the things he said which was like a F You to Prince

It's Prince and his place, his opinions beliefs etc

You cannot turn his place into something he never intended for it to be

Sure they can, he passed away and didn't leave a will with explicit instructions as to what could or couldn't be done with the place. I don't really give a shit about his thinly veiled homophobia that he passed off as "moral values" or whatever. He was more than happy to use LGBTQ imagery/culture and collaborate with gay musicians when it benefitted him and his career, so I think it's fair game for the current owners of Paisley Park to show a movie celebrating that kind of culture in current times. Anyone who doesn't like it isn't obligated to participate.

mbdtyler said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It's still his place though

It's like when fans were upset at having Jesse Johnson perform at PP after the things he said which was like a F You to Prince

It's Prince and his place, his opinions beliefs etc

You cannot turn his place into something he never intended for it to be

Sure they can, he passed away and didn't leave a will with explicit instructions as to what could or couldn't be done with the place. I don't really give a shit about his thinly veiled homophobia that he passed off as "moral values" or whatever. He was more than happy to use LGBTQ imagery/culture and collaborate with gay musicians when it benefitted him and his career, so I think it's fair game for the current owners of Paisley Park to show a movie celebrating that kind of culture in current times. Anyone who doesn't like it isn't obligated to participate.

No they cannot, if they want PP to be what it was. Prince still said what he wanted PP to be, that is enough.

There are so many other places to play the PIS documentary(which I enjoy).

Have they played SOTT or Under the Cherry Moon at Paisley Park yet? How about any released Prince concerts?

That's what should be shown at Paisley Park and then release them on DVD/for purchase.

A listening party before Deluxe is released etc

It's a F you to Prince

I didn't even like when associates:band members used Prince/Purple/Minneapolis to push a vote.

Who cares?

Prince aint around anymore to complain about it and, for a good while, many MANY people complained about shit that he did (Darling Nikki, assless pants, Sister, TRC/Jehovah stuff, etc.) so...?

I mean, in the grand scheme of things it hardly matters if they show a semi provacitive movie at Paisley Park. At least to me.

If he wanted things a certain way after his death and Rules Put in Place, perhaps a will would have been in order? But knowing him, he would have "left it up to God" anyway so Paris is Burning @ Paisley Park it is! It's God's will.

I don't worry much about what Prince may or may not have wanted/hated beyond seeing his music turn up in fast food or car commercials. And, again, that could have easily been straightened out with a simple living will. The Beastie Boys have a contract where their music can never be used for ads, for instance and Led Zeppelin is hardcore about what can and can not be done with thier catalog.

PJMcGee said:

I prefer to remember him for replying to Oprah, when she said that some people might think he's gay, with "Whatever floats their boat." Also, when Chris Rock tried to get him to say that the feminine stuff was an act, and Prince double-downed, saying it was just a part of who he was. (And Chris looked like he wished he never brought it up.) That's the Prince I love. (I think I got the details right.)

Yes, he comes across pretty well in that interview and he's still talking about faith/spiritualism in terms inclusiveness and a non-judgemental God. There’s nothing there to suggest that he was a zealot or moralist at all, at that time at least (what was he, 39, 40? That's a fair chunk of life to work these things out). I stopped following Prince closely as the 90s wore on, so I'm unsure to what extent he changed and I completely missed the whole JW thing. I was always puzzled, given how independently minded he was in many other ways, why he clung to faith at all, but it was always more of an interesting curiosity than anything that bothered me as an atheist.

TruthBomb said:

YOU ARE CORRECT PRINCE WOULD NOT SHOW THIS GARBAGE AT PP

P DIDNT HATE ANYONE BUT HE KNEW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG

P WOULD NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE WOKE GARBAGE GOING ON TODAY.

Wow, so much animosity/bigotry in your post. You're entitled to YOUR truth but don't tell me I'm WRONG because I'm gay. Y'all wanna cling to your religious beliefs but ponder this- homosexuality has been around since the dawn of mankind, long before organized religion made it something sinful.

TrivialPursuit said:

TruthBomb said:

YOU ARE CORRECT PRINCE WOULD NOT SHOW THIS GARBAGE AT PP

P DIDNT HATE ANYONE BUT HE KNEW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG

P WOULD NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE WOKE GARBAGE GOING ON TODAY.

So gay and trans people and drag culture is garbage. Okay then.

And I get messages or snips from mods about going overboard for calling folks out for being racist or homophobic, but THIS is okay.

GOT IT.

Exactly- say something wrong about a certain obnoxious member that likes to chastice folks for asking questions and the thread gets closed but posts like TruthBomb's go unchecked.....

kingricefan said:

TrivialPursuit said:

So gay and trans people and drag culture is garbage. Okay then.

And I get messages or snips from mods about going overboard for calling folks out for being racist or homophobic, but THIS is okay.

GOT IT.

Exactly- say something wrong about a certain obnoxious member that likes to chastice folks for asking questions and the thread gets closed but posts like TruthBomb's go unchecked.....

Preeeetty much.

DotsofU said:

laytonian said:

Vannormal said:

PJMcGee said:

tab32792 said:

Lmao 😂 why do y’all think Prince had to do so much?

I pretty well explained it in the thread.

TruthBomb said:

YOU ARE CORRECT PRINCE WOULD NOT SHOW THIS GARBAGE AT PP

P DIDNT HATE ANYONE BUT HE KNEW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG

P WOULD NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE WOKE GARBAGE GOING ON TODAY.

There, there...

First of all it's is not 'garbage', it is much respected documentary, and it is a great plus knowing that Paisley Park is ready to show more recognition and a much more needed positive appraoch towards equality and human acceptance.

Far more than Prince would've dar to admit during his lesser religous influenced and ucertain era.

Concerning this issue he was more than often wrong (too). He wasn't a saint. He was mere human, thankfully.

And fyi, Prince was more 'woke' before the term was even invented.

Although he swinged 'between the difference of right and wrong', as it suited him.

Also, very human imho.

Peace though.

tab32792 said:

PJMcGee said:

I prefer to remember him for replying to Oprah, when she said that some people might think he's gay, with "Whatever floats their boat." Also, when Chris Rock tried to get him to say that the feminine stuff was an act, and Prince double-downed, saying it was just a part of who he was. (And Chris looked like he wished he never brought it up.) That's the Prince I love. (I think I got the details right.)

The one you made up in your head?

PJMcGee said:

The one I saw on television in the '90s.

And the one who had no issue with the Game Boyz grinding on him in a homoerotic fashion while he wore arseless pants during the MTV Get Off performance. Prince was hetrosexual, but he frequently presented an image of gender non-conformity and sexual liberalism in his work. We didn't imagine it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

mbdtyler said:

Sure they can, he passed away and didn't leave a will with explicit instructions as to what could or couldn't be done with the place. I don't really give a shit about his thinly veiled homophobia that he passed off as "moral values" or whatever. He was more than happy to use LGBTQ imagery/culture and collaborate with gay musicians when it benefitted him and his career, so I think it's fair game for the current owners of Paisley Park to show a movie celebrating that kind of culture in current times. Anyone who doesn't like it isn't obligated to participate.

No they cannot, if they want PP to be what it was. Prince still said what he wanted PP to be, that is enough.

There are so many other places to play the PIS documentary(which I enjoy).
Have they played SOTT or Under the Cherry Moon at Paisley Park yet? How about any released Prince concerts?

That's what should be shown at Paisley Park and then release them on DVD/for purchase.

A listening party before Deluxe is released etc

It's a F you to Prince

I didn't even like when associates:band members used Prince/Purple/Minneapolis to push a vote.

On past November 20th, the showed UTCM movie for a 35th aniversary celbration at Paisley Park.

And often during tours, they show an assembled video with various known and unseen Prince concert snippets.

St Paul Peterson showed some on his instagram page while hosting a tour there recently.

tab32792 said:

Vannormal said:

Still, i can't seem to understand why he did such an aweful thing to them, honestly ?

Paying for a hotel and flight for Pricne was peanuts, right ?

What did he actually mean with doing tsoemthing like this ?

Or did he have a bad bank account himself (at the time), we don't know of ?

Lmao 😂 why do y’all think Prince had to do so much?

It was his call. His invitation.

And he did this 'joke' for some an unknown reason.

He did not hesitate paying for other invited occasions before apparently.

He also could've send the songs to LA so W&L could work on 'm in their own studio or at Sunset Sound for instance - imho or course.

Vannormal said: