A previously unreleased 2010 Prince record arrives this month. His collaborators look back on the sessions and offer a glimpse into the icon’s private world: https://www.rollingstone....y-1192233/

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

could you eloborate in that a bit further to give Some insights?

Hilarious!

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

dualboot said:

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

could you eloborate in that a bit further to give Some insights?

They keep talking like they found this album at random but it's pretty clear that they searched for it so they could continue presenting Prince a certain way. Now I'm not denying that side of Prince but he also had a religious side. They're doing their best to suppress that part of him while amplifying the other part. And they're making the part they're amplifying less nuanced than he was in reality.
.
They found three disc but they're only giving us one. Oh boy, so we get the version of Stand Up And B Strong that leans heavy on the background singers instead of a rawer take with Prince's vocals. Or the 2007 version with Michael Bland and Sonny T.

.

It's not a completed album. Even in the Rolling Stone article, Morris Hayes talks about Prince wanted to add a guitar part to Check The Record but never got around to it. So why did the Estate choose this unfinished album to release now? Because they want to present Prince in a certain way. That's more important than the music to them. The same reason they picked the live show they did for this set.

.

They can do what they want, but I don't have to pay to support that. I'll just listen to the new tracks on Spotify or YouTube.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 11:02am]

Strive said:

dualboot said:

could you eloborate in that a bit further to give Some insights?

They keep talking like they found this album at random but it's pretty clear that they searched for it so they could continue presenting Prince a certain way. Now I'm not denying that side of Prince but he also had a religious side. They're doing their best to suppress that part of him while amplifying the other part. And they're making the part they're amplifying less nuanced than he was in reality.
.
They found three disc but they're only giving us one. Oh boy, so we get the version of Stand Up And B Strong that leans heavy on the background singers instead of a rawer take with Prince's vocals. Or the 2007 version with Michael Bland and Sonny T.

.

It's not a completed album. Even in the Rolling Stone article, Morris Hayes talks about Prince wanted to add a guitar part to Check The Record but never got around to it. So why did the Estate choose this unfinished album to release now? Because they want to present Prince in a certain way. That's more important than the music to them. The same reason they picked the live show they did for this set.

.

They can do what they want, but I don't have to pay to support that. I'll just listen to the new tracks on Spotify or YouTube.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 11:02am]

I think I mostly agree with this, although I wonder what the "certain way" is that you think they're trying to present Prince. But, especially given that some of the tracks are unfinished, and others we already heard, it is surprising they didn't provide more material. There's an audience for rough cuts and studio scraps, which could be more appealing than "Hot Summer" again.

Mintchip said:

I think I mostly agree with this, although I wonder what the "certain way" is that you think they're trying to present Prince. But, especially given that some of the tracks are unfinished, and others we already heard, it is surprising they didn't provide more material. There's an audience for rough cuts and studio scraps, which could be more appealing than "Hot Summer" again.

Well everybody gets in a fit whenever I mention it but giving Spike Lee Mary Don't You Weep for the credits of BlacKkKlansman, putting We March at the end of Anthology: 1995-2010, Vagina from 1999 SDE being mentioned as so progressive in press interviews, Daphne A. Brooks being on the booklet for Sign SDE and now the press release/press junket for Welcome 2 America.

.

I was kind of holding out hope for this one, that it was more than what they said it was, but Prince is being made a slave in death and any nuance he had is being stripped away.

.

This album was chosen so the Estate could go "look at how relevant this is and how woke Prince was" but A) he chose to shelf this album without completing it B) he barely played anything off this live C) when he did pull it out of the vault, he left all of those "relevant" songs on the cutting room floor D) trying to say that a statement Prince (privately) made in 2010 would have been the same statement Prince would make, if he was still alive, in 2021 is beyond stupid...Prince was all over the place and constantly evolving.

.

His thoughts didn't fit in any box and he drew from a wide/weird source of information. Even Van Jones said that when he said that Prince wasn't red or blue, he was purple.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 15:05pm]

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

Just be grateful the estate is still in probate, because, when the heirs and primary wave take over it will be a shitstorm.

rap said:

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

Just be grateful the estate is still in probate, because, when the heirs and primary wave take over it will be a shitstorm.

The Heirs and Primary Wave will not have any say in releases.

Strive said:

Mintchip said:

Thanks for explaining. I’d never thought of any of this before, and it’s an interesting take.

No problem. And I forgot Make Up from Originals. That was another one Howe was talking up in interviews.

Strive said:

dualboot said:

could you eloborate in that a bit further to give Some insights?

They keep talking like they found this album at random but it's pretty clear that they searched for it so they could continue presenting Prince a certain way. Now I'm not denying that side of Prince but he also had a religious side. They're doing their best to suppress that part of him while amplifying the other part. And they're making the part they're amplifying less nuanced than he was in reality.
.
They found three disc but they're only giving us one. Oh boy, so we get the version of Stand Up And B Strong that leans heavy on the background singers instead of a rawer take with Prince's vocals. Or the 2007 version with Michael Bland and Sonny T.

.

It's not a completed album. Even in the Rolling Stone article, Morris Hayes talks about Prince wanted to add a guitar part to Check The Record but never got around to it. So why did the Estate choose this unfinished album to release now? Because they want to present Prince in a certain way. That's more important than the music to them. The same reason they picked the live show they did for this set.

.

They can do what they want, but I don't have to pay to support that. I'll just listen to the new tracks on Spotify or YouTube.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 11:02am]

thank you for you insights. Much appreciated.

Strive said:

Strive said:

Mintchip said:

I think I mostly agree with this, although I wonder what the "certain way" is that you think they're trying to present Prince. But, especially given that some of the tracks are unfinished, and others we already heard, it is surprising they didn't provide more material. There's an audience for rough cuts and studio scraps, which could be more appealing than "Hot Summer" again.

Well everybody gets in a fit whenever I mention it but giving Spike Lee Mary Don't You Weep for the credits of BlacKkKlansman, putting We March at the end of Anthology: 1995-2010, Vagina from 1999 SDE being mentioned as so progressive in press interviews, Daphne A. Brooks being on the booklet for Sign SDE and now the press release/press junket for Welcome 2 America.

.

I was kind of holding out hope for this one, that it was more than what they said it was, but Prince is being made a slave in death and any nuance he had is being stripped away.

.

This album was chosen so the Estate could go "look at how relevant this is and how woke Prince was" but A) he chose to shelf this album without completing it B) he barely played anything off this live C) when he did pull it out of the vault, he left all of those "relevant" songs on the cutting room floor D) trying to say that a statement Prince (privately) made in 2010 would have been the same statement Prince would make, if he was still alive, in 2021 is beyond stupid...Prince was all over the place and constantly evolving.

.

His thoughts didn't fit in any box and he drew from a wide/weird source of information. Even Van Jones said that when he said that Prince wasn't red or blue, he was purple.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 15:05pm]

So you're fed up with the Estate because they're supposely trying to market an album full of political statements as political? It is what it is. Prince was always a progressive and political artist: from the sexual liberation of his early 80s stuff to the more political and racial subjects from Sign O The Times onwards.

You sound like a reactionary person.

fernandomachado said:

Strive said:

Well everybody gets in a fit whenever I mention it but giving Spike Lee Mary Don't You Weep for the credits of BlacKkKlansman, putting We March at the end of Anthology: 1995-2010, Vagina from 1999 SDE being mentioned as so progressive in press interviews, Daphne A. Brooks being on the booklet for Sign SDE and now the press release/press junket for Welcome 2 America.

.

I was kind of holding out hope for this one, that it was more than what they said it was, but Prince is being made a slave in death and any nuance he had is being stripped away.

.

This album was chosen so the Estate could go "look at how relevant this is and how woke Prince was" but A) he chose to shelf this album without completing it B) he barely played anything off this live C) when he did pull it out of the vault, he left all of those "relevant" songs on the cutting room floor D) trying to say that a statement Prince (privately) made in 2010 would have been the same statement Prince would make, if he was still alive, in 2021 is beyond stupid...Prince was all over the place and constantly evolving.

.

His thoughts didn't fit in any box and he drew from a wide/weird source of information. Even Van Jones said that when he said that Prince wasn't red or blue, he was purple.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 15:05pm]

So you're fed up with the Estate because they're supposely trying to market an album full of political statements as political? It is what it is. Prince was always a progressive and political artist: from the sexual liberation of his early 80s stuff to the more political and racial subjects from Sign O The Times onwards.

You sound like a reactionary person.

Way to make it personal, Fernando!

FWIW, I like Strive's take b/c it seems to be about taking old songs and clumsily applying them to modern-day events, then saying "See? This is what Prince would think!", all done in the name of selling a product to benefit I-can't-remember-who. I think you're oversimplifying it by implying that "politcs" circa ten, twenty, or thirty years ago = politics circa 2021. It gets sloppy, quick: take the song "Welcome to America", in which Prince forcefully rallies against iphones — which, not even touching the role that smartphones play in creating the footage we see to spark the protests we make — is still a pretty limp way to respond to the violence in Minneapolis. It's particularly off-putting when you consider how Prince would have responded; unknowably, directly, forcefully, maddeningly, and probably not by playing "Welcome to America."

Painting Prince as one political ideology or another is a losing game; you can't say "always a progressive" and account for the last 16 years of his life. If you want to hear what "reactionary" sounds like, you can do worse than listening to The Rainbow Children or Musicology.

SantanaMaitreya said:

To be fair, Prince also wrote Baltimore and at an award show said: "like books and black lives, albums matter." So it's certainly not strange that the Estate wants to show that side of him. Whether you like that or not is a different matter. Anyway, it says nothing about the music and I'm not going to let the Estate's decisions influence how I listen to the music.

This is very true, and probably the best takeaway.

SantanaMaitreya said:

To be fair, Prince also wrote Baltimore and at an award show said: "like books and black lives, albums matter." So it's certainly not strange that the Estate wants to show that side of him. Whether you like that or not is a different matter. Anyway, it says nothing about the music and I'm not going to let the Estate's decisions influence how I listen to the music.

Baltimore is a good example. Imagine if Prince was dead in 2015 and the Estate re-released We March thinking that's what he would have wanted in that climate. They wouldn't even have been close because we know that Baltimore the song was way more mature and refined than Prince in 1994 with We March.

.

Prince also said "When I come back [to Balitmore], I want to stay in a hotel you own" during his Dance Rally 4 Peace concert and talked to Donatella Versace about teaming up because he thought what happened to Travon Martin was a fashion issue and made "Yes, We Code" because he wanted to change the public perception of a black kid in a hoodie. That people would see him and think he was a tech guy like Mark Zuckerberg instead of a thug.
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So to try to put Prince in any box is a bad idea. He had some bizarre, but interesting, ideas. And trying to attribute everything he ever did to that (currently trendy) box is an even worse idea. Because the people you are attracting don't care about the music or the man. The second it's no longer convenient to co-opt him, they are going to throw him right out of the plane. Then what are you left with?
.

edit: to expand on that

“After the Trayvon Martin verdict I [Van Jones] was talking to Prince and he said, ‘You know, every time people see a young black man wearing a hoodie, they think, he’s a thug. But if they see a young white guy wearing a hoodie they think, oh that might be Mark Zuckerberg. That might be a dot-com billionaire.’”

“I said, ‘Well, yeah, Prince that’s true but that’s because of racism.’ And he said, ‘No, it’s because we have not produced enough black Mark Zuckerbergs. That’s on us. That’s on us. To deal with what we’re not doing to get our young people prepared to be a part of this new information economy.’”

[Edited 7/20/21 10:44am]

Prince was always political in his own way, from at least Controversy on.

But much like when other people cover Prince's songs, conveying that person's mind is really alien and weird to people who consume so much of it like diehard fans do. So while I think Strive can be a bit much with his political opinions in general, I don't think he's wrong here at all.

Trying to get in Prince's head and build a narrative around something with so much editorializing comes across as insincere and bizarre to anyone who actually listened to his music much and doesn't have a payday coming to them with one of these projects.

I do think P would've given Black KKKlansmen a song (probably not THAT one, duh), but as far as making mildly political albums seem like they were Bob Dylan protest anthems is a bit much.

Welcome 2 America isn't really political anyway. Listen to the baby-brained lyrics. That was an intelligent man who wrote some of the best songs to ever be put down on wax and this album is NOT a shining example of that.

Strive said:

I don't like the direction the estate is going in

Same here, I don't like it either and I especially dislike the certain way they are trying to portray him as to pacify the woke mob, I really hope its a blink and its gone moment but Im afraid it wont be

Strive said:

dualboot said:

could you eloborate in that a bit further to give Some insights?

They keep talking like they found this album at random but it's pretty clear that they searched for it so they could continue presenting Prince a certain way. Now I'm not denying that side of Prince but he also had a religious side. They're doing their best to suppress that part of him while amplifying the other part. And they're making the part they're amplifying less nuanced than he was in reality.
.
They found three disc but they're only giving us one. Oh boy, so we get the version of Stand Up And B Strong that leans heavy on the background singers instead of a rawer take with Prince's vocals. Or the 2007 version with Michael Bland and Sonny T.

.

It's not a completed album. Even in the Rolling Stone article, Morris Hayes talks about Prince wanted to add a guitar part to Check The Record but never got around to it. So why did the Estate choose this unfinished album to release now? Because they want to present Prince in a certain way. That's more important than the music to them. The same reason they picked the live show they did for this set.

.

They can do what they want, but I don't have to pay to support that. I'll just listen to the new tracks on Spotify or YouTube.

.

[Edited 7/18/21 11:02am]

Why not just make the music more important than whatever the estate is or isn't doing? Regardless of what is complete, omitted, changed, etc, you are getting a nice group of songs to enjoy that Prince created. I would think that has to supercede anything. The only important thing is how you percieve Prince, who cares what picture they are painting, your picture is all that matters. I am happy to buy it, Prince didn't finish a few things, that I alright, it is what it is, and surely way better than not having it at all.

[Edited 7/21/21 3:52am]

leadline said:

Why not just make the music more important than whatever the estate is or isn't doing? Regardless of what is complete, omitted, changed, etc, you are getting a nice group of songs to enjoy that Prince created. I would think that has to supercede anything. The only important thing is how you percieve Prince, who cares what picture they are painting, your picture is all that matters. I am happy to buy it, Prince didn't finish a few things, that I alright, it is what it is, and surely way better than not having it at all.

I agree, that's why I'm still going to listen to the album. There's still Spotify and YouTube.

7 of the 12 tracks are already known. Running Game doesn't seem like it will be my jam. My enthusiasm for Stand Up And B Strong was killed when I heard it leans on the other singers. Which leaves 1010 (Rin Tin Tin), Yes and One Day We Will All B Free. 1010 has a chance of being a dark horse like The Dance from 3121, Yes is a complete unknown and I'm really curious if One Day We Will All B Free is really just a cover of the Donny Hathaway song (that seems like a Prince thing to do, changing the lyric to a definite statement)

.

Maybe it's just me but having a certain track order makes for a more pleasant listening experience but it doesn't elevate the individual songs.

[Edited 7/21/21 7:32am]

Prince was always evolving, yes, but he was always striving to present from a supposed distinguished "woke" state even when he was probably asleep dreaming in a bed of misinformation. And he was always trying to preach to "wake" people up to his perspective on issues and culture. From "Stauros" to veganism to critiquing a "two party system" to "chemtrails" (shudder) to "We March" to "Baltimore" to "Planet Earth". He saw himself as confidently owning a certain wisdom and insight and then tried to sometimes teach it through his songs and performance.

But even with the childlike simplicity in "Dear Mr Man" he painted being "woke" as part of his persona. (ozone layer).

He did certainly sometimes walk backward from his early queer days of thematics, to his latter hetero norm persona that didn't "cuss". That would never be considered "woke" by what "woke" means today.

It amazes me that some fans on here deny that Prince was trying to be some sort of woke, and also gambled on being vaguely "woke" as part of his pop image.

Remember when he kept everyone standing at the Soul Train awards?:

"When it's your game, you make the rules, everything comes easy. All your friends are in key positions, so when you decide you don't want to play anymore you never leave empty-handed. Can somebody say "golden parachute"? Well it's not your game, you didn't make the rules, so everything comes hard."

"A select few of us will do well. The majority will not. So as a people, we will be considered a minority. But let's stop and take a moment to look at yourself. There is nothing minor about you. You are a blessed people. You're the most talented on earth and you are still grateful. That is why upon winning in their game, you always think God. Tonight, I would like to ask one favor of you. Imagine what it would be like in our own game. Peace and love for one another."



He had a song called "Slave to the System".

Slave 2 the system here before I was born
Slave 2 the master,
workin' me till I'm worn
The only penthouse I can count on's a big black ball and chain
Slave 2 the system, the future's all arranged
Oh, U better fetch that water, boy
Slave 2 the system

Remember, Prince's friends/peers were the likes of Van Jones, Spike Lee, and he did play a private concert at the White House for the Obamas and friends.



___________________

Also "woke" intelligent people I know critiquing Obama as evil (for warcrimes), grind Trump or the GOP even lower in the ground than shit, like they are not even human. These people are superwoke. They are not more "red", don't get that wrong. (it's hilarious to me that red which was the slang I'd associate with communist ("Red Dawn") is now the true brand color of the GOP and the trump hats, a far cry from simple graphics during elections).

Strive said:

.
They found three disc but they're only giving us one.

.
Most probably it was 3 CD-ROMs (or DVD-ROMs) with the vinyl-masters (one disc for each side) in 24bit-96kHz format.

Strive said:

Cancelled my preorder. I don't like the direction the estate is going in

-

It is not going to help future physical releases though.

Anwyays.

But i do understand your remarks and concernes.

I even agree to most of it.

-

Prince, like you said, he had fantastic ideas and opinions, certainly original.

Not all of them were valuable or meaningful (to me).

hese days, more than ever, it's about time for all these platforms concerrning all contemporary matters and problems worldwide.

It's never too much or too late to talk about racism for example.

Knowing that Prince was such a high prolific workaholic, It makes me wonder if he ever had the time to really discuss with equals, or other people than those around him.

The second part of his life he got most of his knowledge from the bible and jehova classes

Barely approached objectively concerning the discussing of todays topics, i believe.

Mind this is my own opinion, and I'm european. We often somehow have a different approach of thinking or dealing with these issues.

To me, whatever Prince preached or told in his songs, it didn't matter that much to be honest.

The message often went by. Although I didn't like the jehova shit preachings.

I think Prince was absolutely utmost intelligent for sure.

I believe he did not always had the right people around him.

He was surrounded mostly by yes-sayers. People that adored him. Found im a true genius.

While he just was a normal guy with normal questions in life, trying to find answers, thought he might find them in religion etc.

Stardom and having everyone thinking you're a genius is some weight on your shoulders.

It is clear (to me) that he struggled throughout his whole life with all these matters.

I might be wrong though, like i often say here.

But this is how I feel about the guy in general concerning his lyrics, and what we know of him told in interviews.

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[Edited 7/22/21 5:26am]