paraded said:

Vannormal said:

-

Seriously not what I agree with.

I considder Prince campy in the slightest and the highest - very unique though.

There is a lot laughable about most of his looks and some performances too - still very unique, but often utter camp.

Less when he got older. Still he remained a bit off track with moonboots, prints of his own image on his clothings everywhere, large jewelry, glitter and see through clothing, female haircuts. (His afro was the best though imho.)

Yes he did over-the-top work, wrote over-the-top songs and did over-the-top movies and video's, silly and not necessarely unserious - again, still very unique in whatever he did.

No he did not meant every word he said or sang.

Why else change his language later on in his live performances and records, etc.

He was a guy full of doubt and (too much switching) believes, just very human in fact. Thankfully.

But I do agree he was a romantic, maybe even more than the sex driven dirty mind macho something he wanted us all to believe so strongly. Rape? Incest? Lust U Always?

Probably in his mind, and that led to hundreds of fantastic songs ! The drive for all kinds of sex had his strongest outcome in many of his songs i believe.

Never heard any of his bed partners talking in details about his sexlife.

From what we all need to believe he had so many women and so much sex (yes there was time in the early days, maybe).

Once if i recall correct, I think it was Mayté who said he was more of a gentleman and a romancer in bed. (correct me if i'm wrong, it could be another girl)

He was a hero in what he dare to do and how to dress etc.

And a poet? He sometimes was a poet, not quite often enough to my likes.

But he damn sure wrote fantastic songs and wonderful lyrics sometimes.

Compare him with Leonard Cohen, lyrical... and see for yourself.

Yes he was overal a tremendous unique & full campy genderfluent hetero sexual guy way before anyone else (maybe Little Richard and some sis it before him). He brought the whole camp style to another level. That's true.

All my personal opinion of coure.

Peace though.

-

Totally respect your views on him. Perhaps my definition of camp is a little too subtle, as I see a difference between camp and kitsch, which many would say there isn't. To me kitsch is more three dimensional and ambiguous, whereas camp is straightforward and flatter in its iconography. And by "poet" I didn't mean lyrically always, more that his entire spirit was that of a great knight in medieval times out on a quest.

-

I got you. You're right. Intersting...

There is a difference between camp and kitch.

Like you said from what you read that camp "comes off as spectacularly ridiculous"

This definition is what makes me understand your point of view.

And I agree on the view of 'Poet' ("more that his entire spirit was that of a great knight in medieval times out on a quest").

Although when you say that Prince to you "sings his heart out, it's so often coming from a human, deeply conflicted, vulnerable place, even when he's triumphant and swaggerin", is something I do not always agree with. Yes he does in his emotional songs.

Just like in the song "Sometimes It Snows in April" he sings as he acts to a story which fits the movie.

He sings it with an emotional tone, but to me it doesn't come from the heart and soul. And there are other songs too. Anyway, the example may not be clear, but i hope you understand what i mean. I'm not always sure if his intentions are pure, to put it that way. There's sits the thin level of acting / kitsch / camp / etc.

Don't forget, Prince had a (great) portion of what he wanted us to believe in him. It's typical for most artist i believe.

((Let's not forget this is my personal super subjective interpretation. )

Surely he knew exactly how to fuse whatever art(s) he touched.

I always found it a pitty that he did not had a bigger influence by Susannah...

It seemed that hi life was solely absorbed by music only, and sometimes some films.

If he only had been more open to other forms of art it could've give him more input for a longer period of time.

I found his lyrical content of the last decade quite uninspiring. As if he locked himself out of a lot in the world. Religioun also might've had a big influence for that matter. Who knows. Anyways.

You also sayd that "Kitsch to me is not a criticism per sé", and you're right.

Think John Waters and Devine and Liberace, just to name a few.

I love early honest kitsch used to give another view on society and life.

-

[Edited 4/26/21 4:19am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

What about when old Hollywood movies like Douglas Sirk melodramas are reclaimed as camp texts? That's def about the audience. Kitsch I will admit I'm less familiar with other than as something cutesy and pastichey [Edited 4/24/21 7:41am]

-

In his looks - certainly in his early years and eighties - there was a great portion of pastich and copypaste &nd the gendermix style.

Lateron, it became an assemblage of kitsch and uniqueness, with his recognizable portions of theatricality, and less gendermix.

The 'cute-sy' part was carried by his rare smile.

In the last decade of his life, he left the kitsch and pastich.

imho of course.

-

In his music, I find him first and foremost unique in his blend of recognizable use of styles.

His Lyrics were basically always authentic and typical Prince.

-

He could definitely camp it up with the best of them. But he did so in a way that let you know it was part of his act.

Poom Poom = John Waters level camp. And I'm here for it.

Vannormal said:

LoveGalore said:

steakfinger said: Not necessarily true. Plenty people just are that eccentric and it's campy. If you're of the same beliefs as Susan Sontag (who wrote a definitive book on the subject 50 yrs ago), then unintentionally camp people are more endearing/satisfying. I'd say Prince was somewhere in the middle. Sometimes, he was intentional with his camp. Sometimes, he couldn't help it (think of his attempts at swagger or machismo).

-

Oh Yes!

That book as a total recommendation for all men.

Also Camila Pagial's 'Sexual Mask'.

...and so many other great books written mostly by women concerning men and society, behaviour and power.

-

Sexual Persona? I wouldn't reccomend Paglia to anyone at this point. Her stuff has proven it's irrelavence by how the Alt Right uses her work for talking points. Entire rightwing podcast grifts have come into existence on her deas almost exclusively. I'm embarassed I ever took her seriously.

Sontag? Sure, ok.