Wolfie87 said:

Now you record and produce on your own, now you dance like a god in High Heels, now you use your voice from low to high only matched by Mariah Carey, now you pull out a blistering guitar solo while spinning, now you record Sign "O" The Times on your own, now you Lay down harmonies on Adore, now you move music forward without following trends, now you dip into any genre fearless. I can move on. What is your problem? Bait click topic and Troll topic at the same time. [Edited 4/4/21 16:51pm]

Wolfie87 said:

thebanishedone said:

Let me put it this way Prince didn't have music vocabulary for some of the genres he tried to play like fusion jazz,jazz,classical.Yet some people think Prince as a musician can do it sll.

It's too early to judge. One of his bandmates from the 80s said they'd recorded stuff far more in the vein of jazz than what was commercially released. Maybe it was Madhouse 24, but it was around that time.

Personally I find NEWS 9/10, and it's definitely fusion sounding in places. Kamasutra is more ballet than classical, but I acknowledge even to call it ballet is stretching it a bit. Still he's thought to have composed a piano concerto in the 80s, symphony in the 90s, and 'something with flutes' more recently.

Plenty of Jazz Greats loved Prince...Herbie, Miles, George Bensen. They know how difficult it is to do what Prince does...genius songcraft.

From Article...Madhouse has become celebrated among jazz players. “Roy Hargrove told me he loved that [first] album. Branford Marsalis was a big Prince fan and got into my shit because of Madhouse. When Kenny Garrett was in Miles’ band, he had a cassette of his group playing Madhouse songs.

https://jazztimes.com/fea...adhouse-8/

thebanishedone said:

RighteousOne said:

Well, what did you expect. Some kind of reasoned response? You do know you put this question up on a Prince fan site, right? To people who spend much of their lives here. It was never going to be objective was it? They don’t do objective here.

At least you got my point.I love Prince but on facebook,org and utub i have seen unrealistic adoration coming from fans .under the comment section of 1977 Instrumental Jazz Funk recording of Prince somebody wrote :i wonder how Prince would sound playing with Herbie Hancock.on the org there was a thread "The night Prince changed world of guitar" implaying that Prince changed the world of rock guitar solo with his playing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps.So all those Prince is amazing on the instruments he plays.He was very good ,maybe amazing at the way he presented himself but was he amazing on any instrument ?

I have found Orgers to be the most knowlegeable and objective fans of Prince which is why I shy away from other sites. There is nothing worse than fans over-idealizing him which prevents objective conversation.

I do seem to remember, though, that you thought that Prince's rendition of 'While MyGuitar...'

was very good.

Margot said:

thebanishedone said:

I was one of the most annoying orgers making countless threads about how great Prince is on guitar.I thought those who don't share my view just don't get it.but things change and as i started paying more attention to some more proficient musicians i came to a realisation that Prince as a musician is way too overrated.i see people saying :imagine Prince and Herbie Hancock playing together or i see a topic here "the day Prince changed the world of electric guitar.Prince did push the envelope in the realm of pop music but every attempt he did outside of pop wss far from good.Prince's jazz projects are like kindergarden jazx compared to Mahavishnu Orchestra or Return To Forever.Prince is a good rhythm guitar player but as a soloist his playing is average or even bellow.his piano playing is overhyped and in reality i"ve seen him playing live piano parts that wete under rehearsed.I love Prince and his music but it's hard for me to pretend that he is amazing on guitar bass piano and drums when he is just average even to pop music standards. [Edited 4/3/21 17:23pm]

.

Prince's limitations in making music are pretty obvious. He was however a pop musician, his works outside of this field can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I don't even think he was a virtuoso on any particular instrument. Its main advantage was its effectiveness: beyond the quality it could have in a single instrument, it was extremely effective in the overall work and in the arrangement.

RighteousOne said:

ufoclub said:

Tecknically there are better players, of course. But I am not into players that play hundred notes per second. Prince is highly respected as a guitar player, not only in his fanbase. A great guitar solo moves the listener. A good example is the ending solo of "Comfortably numb". Moving, not tecnically advanced. Prince had ability to play like that, he had soul in his playing, thats enough for me.

-

By all means he was and still remains unique.

By far more interesting then 90% of most pop and rock artists ever (so far).

-

And I agree, no he was not the best on everything he did.

-

Overall, he was more than avarage with whatever he did or invented.

reason is simply because he 'did it', no matter what was told, thought or not accepted, or well received by the industry or cosumers.

As a musician, he literally did it basically every time of the day and night.

In that alone, he is the only one.

The.

Only.

One.

I know (so far).

Yes he made mistakes in whatever kind of choices he made.

But he chose to do it, as if there was no other way.

It was in fact a drive that he had to live with, and was in no way able to share it.

So he had to do it basically alone.

If he would've been a one instrument player only, he probably would've been the best on a few instruments of choice.

imho of course

-

Listen to REAL Jazz Musicians talk about Prince's unique genius...instead of fratboy anaylsis

https://www.allaboutjazz....?width=768

U cannot compare genres!!!!!
Aretha

Stevie

Marvin

PRINCE

All GENIUSes but not jazz musicians (even though they all dabbled in Jazz and were influenced by Jazz elements)

Miles, Brandon Marsalis, Keith Jarrett, Jazz Guitarist Lionel Loueke, George Benson, Herbie Hancock, Marcus Miller have all talked of Prince's brilliance. They realize he's not trained in Jazz harmonics and improvisation. They cud not do Prince's music like Prince.
They know more than U!

This is click bait and here we all are...

I hear the likes of Eric Clapton and Miles Davis, much less the countless other musicians and fans worldwide who all have ears and can form their own opinions. They ALL are in agreement that he was an extraordinary musician. There is no debate.

As for you being a thread starter...well that is just showing what kind of an idiot you likely are. Enjoy your thread.

4anothertime said:

This is click bait and here we all are...

I hear the likes of Eric Clapton and Miles Davis, much less the countless other musicians and fans worldwide who all have ears and can form their own opinions. They ALL are in agreement that he was an extraordinary musician. There is no debate.

As for you being a thread starter...well that is just showing what kind of an idiot you likely are. Enjoy your thread.

😂 😂 😂

The most mentioned people in the Miles Davis Autobiography

https://www.reddit.com/r/...les_davis/

.

Prince is 24th. I don't know what it means, but it certainly means something.

olb99 said:

The most mentioned people in the Miles Davis Autobiography

https://www.reddit.com/r/...les_davis/

.

Prince is 24th. I don't know what it means, but it certainly means something.

Think of it this way...Miles has made revolutionary music with Coltrane, Bird, Gil Evans, Mingus. And he has compared Prince to Duke Ellington. Enough Said.

langebleu said:

Have they moved April Fool's day this year?

Then again, I'm sure that, several years after the crucifixion, there was also the occasional Palestinian saying - 'T'hat Jesus, he was a great crowd pleaser but, when it came to conjuring tricks, I'd give him a 4 out of 10 at best. Compared to some of the latest street healers .... he had a lot to learn".

In fact, only last week I was chatting with a couple of scientist friends and we were pretty much agreed that, as much as Einstein was a lovely guy who had an idea or two, when it came to truly DEEP thinking, he only merited a C- on a good day.

Bighead said:

thebanishedone said:

ufoclub said:

For example Prince is amazing at present certain vibes coming out of his guitar.His technique on guitar was much better and more interesting than Eric Clapton for example but Eric had more nuances in his tone,more refined.Prince was a great rock guitar player but not as good as some other people who choose to spend more time with the instrument.I'm not saying Prince sucks but i wanna say that we did overrate him as a musician.He didn't bring nothing new as a guitar and keyboard player.Yes he played better than most of people who were presenting themself as multi instrumentalists(George Michael,Lenny Kravitz,Paul Mccartney) but what he played was constricred by the rules of popular music.

Yeah,no. Prince was not better than Paul Mccartney, or Clapton. Not by a long shot. On guitar or piano. Not by a very long shot. He was good, but not one of the best.

Hey...that wasn't anything I said up above... FAKE NEWS!

PS, I'm a huge McCartney nut, and have been listening to his entire catalog lately... and yes, Prince could definitely have challenged him on piano or guitar. Come on!

Guys it's not a click bait.it's not nothing like that.Prince is and

will always be oe of my favourite guitar players in top 5 for me.

Prince was amazing and a Legend with big L with lots of balls and testosterone in what he did

but when i read stuff like "Wonder what Prince would sound with Herbie Hancock or threads ,clips saying that Prince is the most underrated guitar player,that he was amazing at jazz fusion,that he changed the world of guitar during the rnr hall of ceremony i just don't feel honest to comfirm that.

And that article of course jazz musicians ain't gonna go harsh on Prince,but i've read in some of those articles one jazz guy saying that Prince was an intimidating figure in the world of music but not intimidating as a musician at all.And you know what i can totally see Prince's appeal to jazz musicians

in terms of some of his song melodies being very nice base for jazz improvisations and i do find that some of the songs Prince compose could be reworked and become jazz standards.Strollin,Damn U,She Spoke To Me,Te Amo Corazon,that Madhouse jam i forgot the name ,but he always mixed it with Ballad Of Dorothy Parker.

Before i used to think Prince don't need to learn how to read music,Hendrix,Mccartney and bunch of others didn't know but if Prince did learn to read only sky would be the limit for such a creative guy.

You know for those of you who think this is a click bait i wanna say that i just wanted an honest disscusion about my observation,and at least something is going on in this thred it's not like i made "I miss Prince " thread .

I don't understand people who can't accept what i wrote at least as opinion.Why people see it as a personal attack or anything negative.

For those who don't know i always loved Prince and his music,if he didn't exist the world of music would have a big empty spot.He came shocked everybody,popularised a music tool that was supposed to be used just a time keeping machine for excercising instrument at home (Linn Lm1) ,he was 1 of the first to put drums in the center of the mix.One of the first to have ridiculously sparse sounding number 1 hits,he was singing about topics you can't even dare to think about.beside being a complete musician he was also an athlete on stage doing crazy acrobatic moves ,he was a creator of new genre of music a number 1 performer so nobody is disputing or taking any of that from him.Those who bothered to read what i wrote,they understand where i'm coming from.

thebanishedone said:

Wolfie87 said:

Now you record and produce on your own, now you dance like a god in High Heels, now you use your voice from low to high only matched by Mariah Carey, now you pull out a blistering guitar solo while spinning, now you record Sign "O" The Times on your own, now you Lay down harmonies on Adore, now you move music forward without following trends, now you dip into any genre fearless. I can move on. What is your problem? Bait click topic and Troll topic at the same time. [Edited 4/4/21 16:51pm]

My problem are people like you who totally misunderstood what i wrote so far.Nobody takes away that from Prince.Nobody didn't say he was not a 1 man band producer arranger,great singer,lyricist,acrobat on stage.Nobody said he was not great but he was not amazing in music theory,he was terrible in attempts of making classical and he was like kindergarden in jazz fusion

Prince could not have made classical music without a time machine. The classical period extended from (approximately) 1730 to 1820.

jdcxc said:

U cannot compare genres!!!!!
Aretha

Stevie

Marvin

PRINCE

All GENIUSes but not jazz musicians (even though they all dabbled in Jazz and were influenced by Jazz elements)

Miles, Brandon Marsalis, Keith Jarrett, Jazz Guitarist Lionel Loueke, George Benson, Herbie Hancock, Marcus Miller have all talked of Prince's brilliance. They realize he's not trained in Jazz harmonics and improvisation. They cud not do Prince's music like Prince.
They know more than U!

Stevie was not a jazz musician ,but he could be if he wanted and he was very good in doing jazz,jazz fusion check this out

this is a serious fusion composition by Stevie Wonder and it's a jazz fusion on a much higher level than anything Prince ever did in that genre,here it is : https://www.youtube.com/w...&t=74s

or check this 1 from Secret Life Of Plants ,this is some killer jazz here

https://www.youtube.com/w...tuNzEinwGg

You also have videos of Stevie Wonder killing it on Giant Steps and a video of him playing with Chic Corea Spain and it's shocking that Stevie was not any worse than Chic on Piano.

I'm sorry but noby can touch Stevie in popular music not even Prince

thebanishedone said:

jdcxc said:

U cannot compare genres!!!!!
Aretha

Stevie

Marvin

PRINCE

All GENIUSes but not jazz musicians (even though they all dabbled in Jazz and were influenced by Jazz elements)

Miles, Brandon Marsalis, Keith Jarrett, Jazz Guitarist Lionel Loueke, George Benson, Herbie Hancock, Marcus Miller have all talked of Prince's brilliance. They realize he's not trained in Jazz harmonics and improvisation. They cud not do Prince's music like Prince.
They know more than U!

Stevie was not a jazz musician ,but he could be if he wanted and he was very good in doing jazz,jazz fusion check this out

this is a serious fusion composition by Stevie Wonder and it's a jazz fusion on a much higher level than anything Prince ever did in that genre,here it is : https://www.youtube.com/w...&t=74s

or check this 1 from Secret Life Of Plants ,this is some killer jazz here

https://www.youtube.com/w...tuNzEinwGg

You also have videos of Stevie Wonder killing it on Giant Steps and a video of him playing with Chic Corea Spain and it's shocking that Stevie was not any worse than Chic on Piano.

I'm sorry but noby can touch Stevie in popular music not even Prince

They are both complex geniuses. There are things that Prince can do that Stevie cant and vice/versa. Stevie only dabbled in "Jazz", but that does not take away from his overall musicality and genius.

thebanishedone said:

jdcxc said:

U cannot compare genres!!!!!
Aretha

Stevie

Marvin

PRINCE

All GENIUSes but not jazz musicians (even though they all dabbled in Jazz and were influenced by Jazz elements)

Miles, Brandon Marsalis, Keith Jarrett, Jazz Guitarist Lionel Loueke, George Benson, Herbie Hancock, Marcus Miller have all talked of Prince's brilliance. They realize he's not trained in Jazz harmonics and improvisation. They cud not do Prince's music like Prince.
They know more than U!

Stevie was not a jazz musician ,but he could be if he wanted and he was very good in doing jazz,jazz fusion check this out

this is a serious fusion composition by Stevie Wonder and it's a jazz fusion on a much higher level than anything Prince ever did in that genre,here it is : https://www.youtube.com/w...&t=74s

or check this 1 from Secret Life Of Plants ,this is some killer jazz here

https://www.youtube.com/w...tuNzEinwGg

You also have videos of Stevie Wonder killing it on Giant Steps and a video of him playing with Chic Corea Spain and it's shocking that Stevie was not any worse than Chic on Piano.

I'm sorry but noby can touch Stevie in popular music not even Prince

On the other hand, Stevie Wonder can't make a working website. Go ahead - try to access steviewonder.net on a computer. All you get is a screen that says, "Please rotate your device to portrait."

Every few months one of these threads...

>

I have my own private opinion on the subject, which is most important of course, but I'm glad people are sharing on here.

>

It's funny how Prince's peers can state point-by-point the ways in which they appricate what is special and unparalleled about his musical approach, and someone will always approach a crowd with the aim to debunk Prince's "excellence myth."

>

I guess I'll add to this thread that on the whole Prince was no technical perfectionist but brilliant in so many ways on the whole and IMHO could definiteley handle a stage with any popular performer you could mention.

olb99 said:

The most mentioned people in the Miles Davis Autobiography

https://www.reddit.com/r/...les_davis/

.

Prince is 24th. I don't know what it means, but it certainly means something.

remember Miles was getting older and Prince was the sound of new.I think Miles liked innovation when it comes to Prince.Miles was a fan of 1999 album.I doubt Miles was impressed with Prince as a player of any instrument.yes i know Miles said that Prince plays piano like an average 60s jazz piano player

but ever since Miles played on a rock festival and witnessed Sly And The Family Stone and crowd reaction Miles wanted some of that.Jazz crowd at the time was shrinking ,thats why jazz cats started incorporating sounds from the street rock and funk .Chic Corea and his Return To Forever were counting on rock crowd.Miles as well .So Miles wanted to be more hip to the younger music lovers,thats why he was intrigued by Prince,same way he was with Jimi Hendrix after seeing Montrey pop festival 1967 documentary in theatre with John Mclaughlin.

thats why last Miles album was a mix of hip hop and jazz,cause Miles was always listening to the sounds of the street.

thebanishedone said:

Stevie was not a jazz musician ,but he could be if he wanted and he was very good in doing jazz,jazz fusion check this out

this is a serious fusion composition by Stevie Wonder and it's a jazz fusion on a much higher level than anything Prince ever did in that genre,here it is : https://www.youtube.com/w...&t=74s

or check this 1 from Secret Life Of Plants ,this is some killer jazz here

https://www.youtube.com/w...tuNzEinwGg

You also have videos of Stevie Wonder killing it on Giant Steps and a video of him playing with Chic Corea Spain and it's shocking that Stevie was not any worse than Chic on Piano.

I'm sorry but noby can touch Stevie in popular music not even Prince

I'm sorry but that Venus' Flytrap and bug thingy is rubbish. It's not even jazz. A lot of notes fall on the beat. Elevator music gone wrong. And that Contusion track sounds like Frank Zappa with his most commercial take on jazz. It's 3/5 music and not groundbreaking at all.

If you want to hear quality fusion music, Zappa's The Grand Wazoo would be the best place to start. A lot of the music there is superior to contusion and more complex to boot. A lot of people go to Miles for their fusion but I'm not nearly familiar enough with that period. Bitches' Brew is the iconic album from that period.