I wonder if Prince could have benefitted from the insight of an artistic, respected producer?

I don't get the sense he worked w/enough peers.

A well designed album cover and marketing can go a long way too...

That any the payola for radio plays to get the song ingrained.

But he seemed like he didn't take the time to really produce carefully and with a bit of healthy insecurity except for the odd gem here and there.

I wonder how "High" would have done on the teen pop market. I know it's not popular here, but it is well produced and catchy, and without his Princely messaging or overtones.

Santana pulled off a hit album late in the game. His hit, "Smooth" w/ Rob Thomas was phenomenal.

I think Prince needed more 'fresh eyes' from peers, not proteges.

RJOrion said:

a "hit" isnt made by the artist alone...a "hit" record is a collaborative coordinated effort by artist, label, management, distribution, and media... Prince spent alot of years distancing himself from that process, and in turn burning those historical industry bridges...he paid dearly for it ... you cant draw SLAVE on your face and publicly bash the industry that has invested MILLIONS of dollars in you, and made you one of their poster boys and Golden Child...he bit the hand that fed him... that never works...thats why the hits stopped coming...it had little to do with the actual music...LOL at thinking good music alone will get you a "hit record"... you have to play the game...and its a VERY dirty game

^^^THIS.

sambluedolphin said:

Musicology the album was massive at the time, top 5 most counties.

Wasn't this directly due to bundling sales for the album / adding the album to the ticket purchase?
.
The tour was massive, not the album, certainly not the single or any singles from the album (poll a 100 non-Prince fans if they know any Musicology "hits"...).

.

And the tour was massive only because the public promo emphasis on pre-1995 hits (& didn't he add "for the last time"?)...

.

Fair amount of concert goers were giving away those bundled copies of Musicology before they hit the 2004 arena exit...

[Edited 1/27/21 19:00pm]

OperatingThetan said:

'Becha by Golly Wow!'reached number 11 on the UK chart and 'The Holy River' peaked at number 19, so Prince was still having hits in 96 in the UK and other parts of Europe. And lest we forget, his sole UK number one single was only two years prior in 94 with 'TMBGITW'. I think the issue from 1998 onwards was simply a lack of industry promotion, support and radio play, along with Prince's general resistance to perform singles on tv/produce promo videos before their release, in addition to some of the single choices themselves not being the most obvious commercial contenders on the respective albums. 'Black Sweat' is the one great puzzlement to me and certainly deserved commercial success, but if it had been selected as the lead single, rather than 'Te Amo Corazon' it may have had more impact. Likewise, 'So Far, So Pleased' was the obvious choice for lead single for the 'Rave' album.

The record companies from the duet partners blocked the duets as single releases from the Rave album. Part of the payback from highlighting the corruption of the music industry.

emesem said:

he really didnt care anymore

.

LOL. Dude cared tons about this.

kewlschool said:

OperatingThetan said:

'Becha by Golly Wow!'reached number 11 on the UK chart and 'The Holy River' peaked at number 19, so Prince was still having hits in 96 in the UK and other parts of Europe. And lest we forget, his sole UK number one single was only two years prior in 94 with 'TMBGITW'. I think the issue from 1998 onwards was simply a lack of industry promotion, support and radio play, along with Prince's general resistance to perform singles on tv/produce promo videos before their release, in addition to some of the single choices themselves not being the most obvious commercial contenders on the respective albums. 'Black Sweat' is the one great puzzlement to me and certainly deserved commercial success, but if it had been selected as the lead single, rather than 'Te Amo Corazon' it may have had more impact. Likewise, 'So Far, So Pleased' was the obvious choice for lead single for the 'Rave' album.

The record companies from the duet partners blocked the duets as single releases from the Rave album. Part of the payback from highlighting the corruption of the music industry.

Or rather; you couldn't tell they were duets unless you read the tracklist at the back. The only duet that worked was with Angie Stone. But the Rave "duets" basically camouflaged any aspect of the other artist ever taking part in making these songs. THAT was the problem.

skywalker said:

It had little to do with Prince's music and more to do with the promotion/selling of his music. Prince wasn't really "working" with WB anymore in this regard. He uncoupled himself from the machine. Thus, he didn't get all the perks that go with being one of WB darlings. Record companies didn't invest enormous amounts of $$$$$ into him like they used to, thus....no "hits". Prince stopped playing the game by the rules and so he wasn't rewarded accordingly.

Well, if you first sign a x-million dollar contract, boast about it and then in no time change your mind... then proceed to publicly vilify the company that offered him that contract, again; which he willingly signed, you position yourself as untrustworthy and a loose canon. Even with all that talent, nobody is going to be eager to offer him another contract or even work with him.

He won his case but it meant that form now on he was on his own and I'm sure he vastly underestimated the logistics around doing it all himself.

sambluedolphin said:

RODSERLING said:

RJOrion said:

a "hit" isnt made by the artist alone...a "hit" record is a collaborative coordinated effort by artist, label, management, distribution, and media... Prince spent alot of years distancing himself from that process, and in turn burning those historical industry bridges...he paid dearly for it ... you cant draw SLAVE on your face and publicly bash the industry that has invested MILLIONS of dollars in you, and made you one of their poster boys and Golden Child...he bit the hand that fed him... that never works...thats why the hits stopped coming...it had little to do with the actual music...LOL at thinking good music alone will get you a "hit record"... you have to play the game...and its a VERY dirty game

Yes. And a game that is dependent on trends and youth culture. In the history of Pop Music, How many artists have had major hits 17 years after their debut. A handful. A Prince did have multiple Top 5 Album releases after age 45...impressive.

Margot said:

Santana pulled off a hit album late in the game. His hit, "Smooth" w/ Rob Thomas was phenomenal.

I think Prince needed more 'fresh eyes' from peers, not proteges.

Songs written and produced by other people, when was Prince ever going to allow this?

SantanaMaitreya said:

He had a hit with Musicology, didn't he?

Technically no, but I do agree that if anything was a hit after 1995 it was Musicology. It hasn't really stuck around though, which is a pity.

Late Era Album Peaks...not bad

3121 #1

Lotus #2

Planet Earth #3

AOA #5

Gold Experience #6

3rd Eye Girl #8

ufoclub said:

MattyJam said:

This has always baffled me. Contrary to what some people say, I actually think he was still writing music which had huge chart potential. Songs like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do, Somebody's Somebody and Dance 4 Me could've been massive. And I don't buy that Prince didn't care about having a hit, when some of his music from 96-16 was very obviously tailor made to fit in with the contemporary music scene of the time. I don't buy that it's an age issue, because it didn't stop his 80s contemporaries. So what was it that stopped him from having another hit when MJ and Janet still managed a few in the 00s and Madonna continued to achieve an abudance of chart hits until the radios stopped playing her a few years back.

Well for starters, music is usually a young mans game. He and Michael Jackson weren't having hits like they used to. But also, he no longer had the machine of a record company behind him or promoting him as WB did. So there's that too. I know it's popular opinion on this "Prince was only good in the 80's" so called fan site that he didn't make good music after 1995 but he did. Just wasn't catching on, promoted well or "cutting edge" anymore as if that is the only litmus test for music being good lol

I NEVER seen a fansite downplay & criticize an artist success as much as this one. It's hard to believe this is a fansite. Usually artist are put on a pedestal when their gone. Not this one.

The thread title alone.

RJOrion said:

a "hit" isnt made by the artist alone...a "hit" record is a collaborative coordinated effort by artist, label, management, distribution, and media... Prince spent alot of years distancing himself from that process, and in turn burning those historical industry bridges...he paid dearly for it ... you cant draw SLAVE on your face and publicly bash the industry that has invested MILLIONS of dollars in you, and made you one of their poster boys and Golden Child...he bit the hand that fed him... that never works...thats why the hits stopped coming...it had little to do with the actual music...LOL at thinking good music alone will get you a "hit record"... you have to play the game...and its a VERY dirty game

well said good brother!

I feel like this question is always moot. We all wanted Prince to be EVERYTHING all the time: a hit maker, the greatest musican of all time, the best singer ever, etc. None of it really matters because Prince probably had the career he always wanted to have.

[Edited 1/28/21 6:56am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I NEVER seen a fansite downplay & criticize an artist success as much as this one. It's hard to believe this is a fansite. Usually artist are put on a pedestal when their gone. Not this one.

The thread title alone.

What's wrong with the thread title? It's just stating a fact.

MattyJam said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I NEVER seen a fansite downplay & criticize an artist success as much as this one. It's hard to believe this is a fansite. Usually artist are put on a pedestal when their gone. Not this one.

The thread title alone.

What's wrong with the thread title? It's just stating a fact.

Don't worry, CBOX has just never seen any other fansites. Imagine how dull it would be if we all just posted like it does?

[Edited 1/28/21 8:59am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I NEVER seen a fansite downplay & criticize an artist success as much as this one. It's hard to believe this is a fansite. Usually artist are put on a pedestal when their gone. Not this one.

The thread title alone.

Co-sign times a million. Many of us just can't let Prince be. The same question can be said about Stevie Wonder and Michael and Madonna and Paul McCartney and Public Enemy and George Michael and whoever else. The list of artists who timed out on "hits" could be never ending.

Margot said:

Santana pulled off a hit album late in the game. His hit, "Smooth" w/ Rob Thomas was phenomenal.

I think Prince needed more 'fresh eyes' from peers, not proteges.

He tried that move. He signed with Clive Davis and wanted that magic with the Rave Album.

cooldayla said:

Margot said:

Santana pulled off a hit album late in the game. His hit, "Smooth" w/ Rob Thomas was phenomenal.

I think Prince needed more 'fresh eyes' from peers, not proteges.

He tried that move. He signed with Clive Davis and wanted that magic with the Rave Album.

I don't care for Clive, but he had some insights that Prince ignored.

Margot said:

cooldayla said:

He tried that move. He signed with Clive Davis and wanted that magic with the Rave Album.

I don't care for Clive, but he had some insights that Prince ignored.

And Prince decided to open that attempt to get back in the charts with an 11 year old track which couldn't have sounded more 80s if it had been recorded on a Rubik's Cube. Even when he compromised, he couldn't really bring himself to compromise.

WhisperingDandelions said:

sambluedolphin said:

Musicology the album was massive at the time, top 5 most counties.

Wasn't this directly due to bundling sales for the album / adding the album to the ticket purchase?
.
The tour was massive, not the album, certainly not the single or any singles from the album (poll a 100 non-Prince fans if they know any Musicology "hits"...).

.

And the tour was massive only because the public promo emphasis on pre-1995 hits (& didn't he add "for the last time"?)...

.

Fair amount of concert goers were giving away those bundled copies of Musicology before they hit the 2004 arena exit...

[Edited 1/27/21 19:00pm]

Musicology debuted at number 3 in the US and would have even without the concert bundling. It opened with 191,000 copies in May of 2004, and only 12,600 of those were from the concert (the tour had just started). Even without those 12,600 copies it still would have been #3 that week. It was his first top ten album since The Gold Experience and after that 3121, Planet Earth, Lotusflow3r, Art Official Age, and PlectrumElectrum all debuted in the top 10 with no bundling.

Considering that Gwen Stefani and No Doubt were on top of the world back then, "So Far, So Pleased" probably would have been a big pop radio hit (and a MTV/VH-1 video).....I've read rumors that there was some talk about shooting a video for the song, but No Doubt's management weren't into the idea.