Milty2 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I NEVER seen a fansite downplay & criticize an artist success as much as this one. It's hard to believe this is a fansite. Usually artist are put on a pedestal when their gone. Not this one.

The thread title alone.

Co-sign times a million. Many of us just can't let Prince be. The same question can be said about Stevie Wonder and Michael and Madonna and Paul McCartney and Public Enemy and George Michael and whoever else. The list of artists who timed out on "hits" could be never ending.

It's not because you're a fan that you need to chuck your opinions and thoughts about an artist out the window. On the contrary; the fact that people have different opinions and feelings on what an artist does or did shows they care and are involved in what he does. If we were all just Purple worshippers praising all Prince did without a second thought, this would be the most boring website ever.

RODSERLING said:

The problem with So far, so pleased, was that you can't hear neither Prince nor Gwen Stefani distinctly. The same mistake he did with releasing Take Me With You instead of the Beautiful Ones. So it would have flopped, anyway. [Edited 1/28/21 20:10pm]

Indeed, that's what I tried to mention on another post. If you didn't know or read that there were "collaborations" on this album you wouldn't spot them with a magnifying glass. I'm quite sure they convinced him to do these collaborations but in the end he pollished it to what he wanted, mostly taking out what would identify the presence of another artist.

Black Sweat was a hit (2006)

MattyJam said:

Vannormal said:

-

Compare those mediocre four songs you mentioned and comppare them with the real hits he had earlier on on the top of his game.

There's your answer.

-

Anther more complex answer is a mixture of all this :

-

1. I believe he was desperate for a hit, up until he started to move into the instrumental and jazz directions, towards the end of the nineties.

-

2. Also keep in mind the moniker he named himself with his dispute, the preaching, the complaining about the record industry & money after he signed one of the biggest contracts back then, and a lot of other things that were treated exactly with disinterest, or were just bad choices...

-

3. / 4. / 5. / etc... plus; Prince's über control freakishness, his constant change of mind,

the different labels, bad choices for protégés, and badly maintained great protégés,

uninspired band changes, and not to forget ...

the Larry thing, the jehove thing, the ban of curse words and nastyness, the bad business of Paisley Park, his marriages and the death of his child, the keeping up appearances about that horrifying event of his dead child during the interview with Oprah (poor Mayte), the routine sounding tours later on in his life where he basically lived on only playing hits, barely ever promoting a new album by playing theses songs live, ...

-

9. His relationship with the press in general; first he avoided them, then when things went slow, he all of sa sudden started to do nothing but press and TV, but actually had very little (interesting) to say.

-

10. His hidden drug addiction (not to forget), which probably/possibly had a big influence on all this. Though I'm not an expert.

-

You don't sound like a fan, at all. Just sayin.

-

I'm a music lover, not a fantic fan.

Wanna see my huge collection of Prince music? ?

I've never talked Prince in my life, and don't know him personally, that's true.

I only know him like most of us, through the media and his self-induced bizarre situations, performances, shows and releases.

So I can only give an opinion on the info that is available.

And frankly, being a fan is actually something that you do outgrow a bit as you get older, wiser.

I've never worn t-shirts, or jewelry, don't want a mug or rubber duck that resembles Prince, or any other unnecessary paraphernalia.

I don't want to be that kind of fan.

But I have respect for those who do.

Just sayin'.

-

Margot said:

I wonder if Prince could have benefitted from the insight of an artistic, respected producer?

I don't get the sense he worked w/enough peers.

-

The fact that he was so utterly competitive, is enough to understand that.

NOt to mention he was kind of a show off on most things,

and a very bad comunicator.

Sometimes I get the impression that he was relatively bigoted, on many levels.

Maybe even a little selfish, by fooling so many women at the same time, among other things. Or is that a condition associated with stardom? I remember when a band member from The Revoltuion once said (I think it was Lisa) that from the moment Prince showed up with a bodyguard it all started to change drastically.

But i'm also convinced he had a good heart and was aware how emathy works.

ufoclub said:

A well designed album cover and marketing can go a long way too...

That any the payola for radio plays to get the song ingrained.

But he seemed like he didn't take the time to really produce carefully and with a bit of healthy insecurity except for the odd gem here and there.

I wonder how "High" would have done on the teen pop market. I know it's not popular here, but it is well produced and catchy, and without his Princely messaging or overtones.

-

Still think the album cover is great and one of its very best.
And indeed, radio didn't seem that interested, only I don't know good or great the promotion campaign around this album was (in the USA).

Here in Europe there was (certainly) quite a lot of promotion on all levels.
Prince grew very quickly in his own musical styles and possibilities, and first and foremost wanted his message to be told (and understood).
The Lovesexy album is not for teenagers at all in my opinion, or at least aimed at teenagers.
Also not to foget was his work ethic, he rolled out his music at an enormous speed.

Was therefore probably easily bored.

He just had too many ideas and certainly didn't want to give in to anyone.

He almost always preferred to flee ahead.

-

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

zobilamouche said:

RODSERLING said:

The problem with So far, so pleased, was that you can't hear neither Prince nor Gwen Stefani distinctly. The same mistake he did with releasing Take Me With You instead of the Beautiful Ones. So it would have flopped, anyway. [Edited 1/28/21 20:10pm]

Indeed, that's what I tried to mention on another post. If you didn't know or read that there were "collaborations" on this album you wouldn't spot them with a magnifying glass. I'm quite sure they convinced him to do these collaborations but in the end he pollished it to what he wanted, mostly taking out what would identify the presence of another artist.

Look there are things that Prince did that I didn't like and there are things that I wish Prince would have done but in the end, none of it matters. Like I said before, Prince probably had the career he wanted. I'm sure he would have wanted a hit or two after 1995 (which he did - I can't even believe that needs to be said). I think he also understood where his place was in the pop world in terms of history and legacy and to be honest, it was all his own design. I'm willing to bet that he was content with how things were.

I do however believe that the last two or three albums were a transition period for him. I feel like he may have been looking for a new sound but he hadn't got there yet hence 3rdeyegirl, Piano and a Microphone, the Hit n Run 1 electro sound then the organic sound of Hit n Run 2 and then Black Is The New Black. Or he was just trying new stuff that appealed to him at the time. We'll actually never ever know.

Racism definitely played a factor in the 90s. The more "black" his music sounded, the less (non R&B) pop stations played it.

Meanwhile, his "white" rock stuff was sounding increasingly dated.

[Edited 1/29/21 9:05am]

MendesCity said:

Racism definitely played a factor in the 90s. The more "black" his music sounded, the less (non R&B) pop stations played it.

Meanwhile, his "white" rock stuff was sounding increasingly dated.

[Edited 1/29/21 9:05am]

he didnt make much rnb that would attract a younger pop audience as the 90s wore on, sad to say. look at emancipation - those singles were not for younger listeners.

also, he was old.

why would pop stations play it?

[Edited 1/29/21 9:29am]

LoveGalore said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Never mind a hit, who cares. Was more disappointing that he never made a genuinely memorable or significant album after 2001

Lotus flower is one of his best albums.

sure, if you like half-assed retro, sub santana 70s rock.

he had the chops, but not the songs.

the only redeeming quality about Lotusflower is the beautiful LP cover...the music was completely forgettable...

lotus is the kind of album he could have turned out in his sleep.

compare it to the undertaker album and its no contest.

Vannormal said:

MattyJam said:

This has always baffled me. Contrary to what some people say, I actually think he was still writing music which had huge chart potential. Songs like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do, Somebody's Somebody and Dance 4 Me could've been massive. And I don't buy that Prince didn't care about having a hit, when some of his music from 96-16 was very obviously tailor made to fit in with the contemporary music scene of the time. I don't buy that it's an age issue, because it didn't stop his 80s contemporaries. So what was it that stopped him from having another hit when MJ and Janet still managed a few in the 00s and Madonna continued to achieve an abudance of chart hits until the radios stopped playing her a few years back.

-

Compare those mediocre four songs you mentioned and comppare them with the real hits he had earlier on on the top of his game.

There's your answer.

-

Anther more complex answer is a mixture of all this :

-

1. I believe he was desperate for a hit, up until he started to move into the instrumental and jazz directions, towards the end of the nineties.

-

2. Also keep in mind the moniker he named himself with his dispute, the preaching, the complaining about the record industry & money after he signed one of the biggest contracts back then, and a lot of other things that were treated exactly with disinterest, or were just bad choices...

-

3. / 4. / 5. / etc... plus; Prince's über control freakishness, his constant change of mind,

the different labels, bad choices for protégés, and badly maintained great protégés,

uninspired band changes, and not to forget ...

the Larry thing, the jehove thing, the ban of curse words and nastyness, the bad business of Paisley Park, his marriages and the death of his child, the keeping up appearances about that horrifying event of his dead child during the interview with Oprah (poor Mayte), the routine sounding tours later on in his life where he basically lived on only playing hits, barely ever promoting a new album by playing theses songs live, ...

-

9. His relationship with the press in general; first he avoided them, then when things went slow, he all of sa sudden started to do nothing but press and TV, but actually had very little (interesting) to say.

-

10. His hidden drug addiction (not to forget), which probably/possibly had a big influence on all this. Though I'm not an expert.

-

1. Desperate is a reach. If you're in the music world, who wouldn't want a hit? It wasn't that he was desperate. He started noticing a lot of people having hits but didn't feel as if they were talented and didn't play. To each his/her own.

2. You clearly didn't understand what he was doing or why. If you did you wouldn't have said this. It wasn't about the money. He clearly didn't read properly what he was signing, etc. It was about owning your work and doing what you want when and how you want regardless of oversaturation, etc.

3/4/5. A lot of people here are beyond judgemental and holier than though. He was getting older. Exploring religion. So natural progression is change. He didn't wanna curse anymore and he didn't wanna be old as hell doing ridiculous shit for attention anymore. That's fair and fine. It's like yall want people to stay the same...do the same thing, play the same kind of music, play with the same band, etc.

9 i agree here to an extent.

10. It wasn't an actual long term addiction. It was more recent than anything with the hip situation. So using that is not only not fair it don't make sense

No wonder P hated this place. It's like you're either an obsessive fanatic or you're beyond hyper critical. Rarely any inbetween. Extremely negative literally ALL the time

tab 32792 says

3/4/5. A lot of people here are beyond judgemental and holier than though. He was getting older. Exploring religion. So natural progression is change. He didn't wanna curse anymore and he didn't wanna be old as hell doing ridiculous shit for attention anymore. That's fair and fine. It's like yall want people to stay the same...do the same thing, play the same kind of music, play with the same band, etc.

--------------------

WORD...how people keep overlooking this fundamental fact of real life, is way beyond my understanding...

RJOrion said:

the only redeeming quality about Lotusflower is the beautiful LP cover...the music was completely forgettable...

I believe 100% opposite. But then again I dont buy music because of the covers. LotusFlower has some of his best late career songs: Wall Of Berlin (a great lyric analogy and that solo at the end - whew!), Colonized Mind and Dreamer (two new live classics). You should give it another spin.

Milty2 said:

RJOrion said:

the only redeeming quality about Lotusflower is the beautiful LP cover...the music was completely forgettable...

I believe 100% opposite. But then again I dont buy music because of the covers. LotusFlower has some of his best late career songs: Wall Of Berlin (a great lyric analogy and that solo at the end - whew!), Colonized Mind and Dreamer (two new live classics). You should give it another spin.

ive tried several times... i just cant..."Wall Of Berlin", "Colonized Mind" and "$", are OK, but the rest is kinda bland to me and those 3 good songs dont move me enough to keep coming back to it.

MendesCity said:

Racism definitely played a factor in the 90s. The more "black" his music sounded, the less (non R&B) pop stations played it.

Meanwhile, his "white" rock stuff was sounding increasingly dated.

[Edited 1/29/21 9:05am]

More like the rest of music caught up with his rock stuff, and synths were getting dumped or replaced by samplers.

It's not like BET or Black radio really played Prince in the 90's all that much after Love Symbol or Most Beautiful Girl, either.

The brand of R&B he was playing just didn't crossover the same, but it's not like white people got scared of Prince. A lot of his audience found Maceo, Rosie, Larry to be boring, and too adult contemporary. Even if you liked Betcha By Golly Wow, or Holy River, it wasn't the stuff to make you run out and buy records, but the same year you had big hits from R. Kelly, Usher, Toni Braxton, Faith Evans, Monica, Keith Sweat, Bone Thugs, Ginuwine, Aaliya, Erykah Badu, Warren G.

[Edited 1/29/21 17:32pm]

It was different where I lived. From the mid to the late 90's, his (then current) singles were still played on the top R&B stations in my area.....and his ballads (from many of his 90's albums) were in rotation on the late night "quiet storm" shows....His "outside the box" rock songs (from "T.G.E", "C&D" and some of the 80's albums) were also played on the alternative FM rock stations.

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

95-00 the name change damaged his rep. It was cool to laugh at P. Then as someone said the religious focus. Post religious focus,, World has become darker, look at the type of people enjoying success. P was a warm and wholesome presence. Its no longer cool to get joy from a song. The industry is increasingly soulless and bad forces are at play. For all his eccentricities, P was good. He didn't fit. He knew what was going on. Just my feeling. [Edited 1/29/21 21:11pm]

A side note to your last point: Prince's music, though generally optimistic, always had a bid of an black/naughty edge to it that gave a song tension. As from the religous peak years that edged disappeared and the music turned more sacharine and especially more preachy.

It made his music less realistic or mature because it lacked a dimension it had before. By now his fanbase is all grown up as well and probably got more demanding at the same time as he drifted further into largely making teen pop or preachy pseudo philosophical songs in the 2010s. Luckily there are exceptions.

But he reached a point where he was no longer appealing to young people and his music was out of sync with what most adults tune into. Most albums still had great songs but for me it became less and less interisting to the point that HNR1 and 3rdeyegirl are simply not played.

No matter how talented an artis may be, new generations have their own music they listen to and it's unavoidable that even such a talent as Prince moves out of the hot spot to make room for new talent and then gets celebrated for his past more than his current output. The wealth and quality of his output did ensure that his fanbase spans multiple generations.

Milty2 said:

zobilamouche said:

Indeed, that's what I tried to mention on another post. If you didn't know or read that there were "collaborations" on this album you wouldn't spot them with a magnifying glass. I'm quite sure they convinced him to do these collaborations but in the end he pollished it to what he wanted, mostly taking out what would identify the presence of another artist.

Look there are things that Prince did that I didn't like and there are things that I wish Prince would have done but in the end, none of it matters. Like I said before, Prince probably had the career he wanted. I'm sure he would have wanted a hit or two after 1995 (which he did - I can't even believe that needs to be said). I think he also understood where his place was in the pop world in terms of history and legacy and to be honest, it was all his own design. I'm willing to bet that he was content with how things were.

I do however believe that the last two or three albums were a transition period for him. I feel like he may have been looking for a new sound but he hadn't got there yet hence 3rdeyegirl, Piano and a Microphone, the Hit n Run 1 electro sound then the organic sound of Hit n Run 2 and then Black Is The New Black. Or he was just trying new stuff that appealed to him at the time. We'll actually never ever know.

Well, I don't think he liked it when, dispate all his efforts, he was clearly being moved out of the top spot of the music world. But all attempts and decisions to try to do so were his choice so, yes, I guess he knew what he was doing but wasn't necessarilly happy with the outcome each time.

But as of Musicology he seemed to realise, and be happy, with taking in another position in the music world and business. He clearly enjoyed being that hero from the 80s/90s, he optimized his income withe the give-away albums and linked concerts.

And eventually became more of a support and coach for young talent like 3rdeyegirl.
His piano and microphone was really getting back to the beginning of it all. The passing of Vanity probably brought him even closer to that vantage point.

As Alan Leeds said in the podcast; Maybe he just did all he felt he needed to do.

I was so happy when on February 10 2008, Prince(r.i.p.) won the Grammy Award for "Best Male R&B Vocal Performance" for his rnb hit "Future Baby Mama", It was in constant radio play on radio here. It was one of my favorites off of the platinum shipped "Planet Earth".

It's a mix of reasons isn't. A part of it is the self-sabotage in the 90s. Not just the name change and war on WB, but actively not promoting records. Poor single choices in general, cutting projects short and moving on to the next one only to repeat the same mistakes. The industry being in a different place for an established artist is also just a 'normal' part of a pop artists trajectory. All that together and more.

.

Imagine Come being properly promoted, TV performances and promo videos and having a couple more really strong songs from that era (Interactive, Endorphinemachine etc, take your pick). Same for the Gold Experience, who's singles didn't fair that badly considering, but as an album it had much more to offer and was commercial enough to perform similar to D&P imo. Emancipation too had some good single cuts on it, but it got cut short or wasn't promoted right. Somebody's Somebody? Awesome, commercial, pop and R&B. The Holy River? No, uh-uh.