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Reply #150 posted 03/08/21 10:07am

herb4

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Every artist falls out of sync with the mass audience after a while Only way he could have regained it is is someone else wrote and produced him But we know that was never happening Prince had hit tours in later years. That's where he had hits. Also the idea that him being too rnb put off white ppl is wrong as princes issue was he could no longer cross back over that well (ie he was older) and the pop audience had moved on to more modern rnb artists. Which is what pop audiences always do. But he was never comfortable ageing, and just following his own path, not even in the 00s, as he was soon trying to write wannabe hits like fall in love 2nite. It's the curse of most artists who hit the big time. [Edited 2/24/21 21:53pm] [Edited 2/24/21 22:00pm]

People really forget this. Music is for the young - the pubescent and the sexually charged - and the charts are almost driven by what young people like. There are occasional exceptions but they're really rare. What was the last "hit" that Stevie Wonder, U2, Madonna, Sting, John Mellencamp, Bon Jovi or even the Rolling Stones have had? Phil Collins and Elton John broke through with the help of some movie soundtracks in the mid 90's.

Just for kicks, I went back and looked at 1994 when TMBGITW came out to look at some names and considered who might have been peers of Prince in the mid 80's. I see a few names there I recognize but also a whole lot of Ace of Base, Counting Crows, Toni Braxton and Stone Temple Pilots. Also, very few names on there that were scoring points around when Musicology or 3121 dropped a decade later.

I think at a certain stage, earlier than most, Prince started to understand as well that the real money wasn't to be made by selling "albums", per se. Most acts eventually become "Dad Rock" and "Mom Music" and NOTHING is less cool to a 17 year old than that shit. I was fortunate that my parents had pretty good and timeless taste in music, even though it leaned white and rock oriented, that mostly stood the test of time but a BIG part of being that age is listening to shit your parents hate and finding your own identity.

By 2016, when Prince died, it's all young bucks and sexy women

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2016/top-billboard-200-albums

look at this one from 2006, ten years earlier:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2006/top-billboard-200-albums








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Reply #151 posted 03/08/21 10:59am

SantanaMaitrey
a

Another thing to consider is Prince being so prolific. Acts like Madonna, Michael Jackson, U2, they only made an album every few years so they created a buzz, a big comeback! Everybody who liked them and hadn't paid attention all of a sudden was interested again. Prince couldn't make a comeback because he was always there. Diehard fans are the only ones who will buy a new album from their favourite artist for 15 years in a row.
If you take any of this seriously, you're a bigger fool than I am.
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Reply #152 posted 03/08/21 4:21pm

herb4

SantanaMaitreya said:

Another thing to consider is Prince being so prolific. Acts like Madonna, Michael Jackson, U2, they only made an album every few years so they created a buzz, a big comeback! Everybody who liked them and hadn't paid attention all of a sudden was interested again. Prince couldn't make a comeback because he was always there. Diehard fans are the only ones who will buy a new album from their favourite artist for 15 years in a row.


That's a good point too.

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Reply #153 posted 03/08/21 4:48pm

SoulAlive

SantanaMaitreya said:

Another thing to consider is Prince being so prolific. Acts like Madonna, Michael Jackson, U2, they only made an album every few years so they created a buzz, a big comeback! Everybody who liked them and hadn't paid attention all of a sudden was interested again. Prince couldn't make a comeback because he was always there. Diehard fans are the only ones who will
buy a new album from their favourite artist for 15 years in a row.


So true.Back then,I remember a magazine suggesting that Prince should hold back on his releases and leave more of a gap between his albums.”The release of a new Prince album should be an event,not a yawn”,they wrote.

Of course,Prince did it his way but I think he killed his chances of having that big “buzz” that usually came with major artist albums.
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Reply #154 posted 03/08/21 5:58pm

v10letblues

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skywalker said:

It had little to do with Prince's music and more to do with the promotion/selling of his music. Prince wasn't really "working" with WB anymore in this regard. He uncoupled himself from the machine. Thus, he didn't get all the perks that go with being one of WB darlings. Record companies didn't invest enormous amounts of $$$$$ into him like they used to, thus....no "hits". Prince stopped playing the game by the rules and so he wasn't rewarded accordingly.

no no no. it was absolutely about the music.

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Reply #155 posted 03/08/21 6:21pm

Germanegro

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Well, I'll just say that the theory about Prince's marketing placement with the record companies can be in dispute. I don't have direct access to such records to verify that idea, be it WB or any of the other subsequent labels that he had a one-off publishing and distribution arrangement.

>

All I can say to the effect of the comparative size of labels' R&B division budgets versus their Popular music budgets rests in this 2020 Rolling Stone article (https://www.rollingstone....p-1013534/) detailing the comparative histories of these two sales markets. R&B divisions, while their sponsored acts may be increasing in popularity and their influence upon the pop market, the write-up claims that they actually do maintain a much smaller share of monetary budget among other divisions within labels' promotions.

>

What others like herb4 and SoulAlive have said and I'll agree is that Prince as an ageing artist was struggling in a young-peoples race for the charts. That's just the relevancy battle of the veteran artist that I'll have to admit. As logical as that sounds, it still seems odd when music from a performer of an outside-era gets passed over in the hit parade for newer artists representing the current youth market--proving that I have older-trained ears, I guess. Prince also wasn't able to stem his wealth of new material to allow the labels to maximize their promotional capabilities to generate sales. There may have been a way to do this, but the lables could not maneuver in any novel way. These 2 things did do Prince a disservice in the hit parade.

>

One thing that can be said positively though--in a rail against this thread topic, actually--is that in trade for missing many "hit" opportunities on singles, Prince did figure out ways to make more money than he ever did while working under the record companies' contracts and make good market penetration in his post-95 publishing as an independent agent, especially when considering the limiting effects that would come from his parallel campain for artists' digital rights.

>

RODSERLING said:

WB never put Prince in the rnb département, that s BS. And if they did, that would have been a good move, since rnb was what it sold most in the US music industry at the time, and surely to this day. . WB wanted 7 to be the Lovesymbol lead single. That s more pop oriented than Sexy MF or MNIP, the lead singles Prince wanted. . When 7 was released, most of its airplay was in pop radio stations, since it was #3 in that format, and only #61 in rnb. . Moreover, what killed the Lovesymbol sales in the egg, was that the highly successfull (in Europe and Australia at least) , Sexy MF was released and played on the radio like 4 months (!) before the release of the album ; instead of the usually 3 weeks. That means Lovesymbol lost more than 3 months of sales and momentum. . So that was commercial suicide, and most people at the time may have thought Sexy MF was on D&P. The following single was The Morning Papers, which was also pop/rock oriented (#18 in pop, only #68 in rnb/hip hop) And the following single after that was Peach, also rock oriented. . So that rnb department thing that would have killed Prince sales is a fan invention to justify his declining sales, and is illogic at the same time, knowing that rnb was the best selling genre in the music industry [Edited 3/7/21 15:13pm] [Edited 3/7/21 15:19pm] [Edited 3/7/21 15:21pm]

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Reply #156 posted 03/08/21 6:49pm

laytonian

emesem said:

In the late 90s Prince was a 40/50 year old man who couldnt decide whether he wanted to appeal to teens and 20 year olds or people his own age.


Prince only turned 40 in the "late 90s" (ie, 1998).


But I think he was always trying to appeal to everyone regardless of race, age, socionomic status, nationality.

He remained more popular outside the US than here with our "canned" and pre-digested music.

Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #157 posted 03/08/21 11:50pm

RODSERLING

tab32792 said:



funkbabyandthebabysitters said:


Every artist falls out of sync with the mass audience after a while Only way he could have regained it is is someone else wrote and produced him But we know that was never happening Prince had hit tours in later years. That's where he had hits. Also the idea that him being too rnb put off white ppl is wrong as princes issue was he could no longer cross back over that well (ie he was older) and the pop audience had moved on to more modern rnb artists. Which is what pop audiences always do. But he was never comfortable ageing, and just following his own path, not even in the 00s, as he was soon trying to write wannabe hits like fall in love 2nite. It's the curse of most artists who hit the big time. [Edited 2/24/21 21:53pm] [Edited 2/24/21 22:00pm]

I partially agree. There's literally white people that think Adore is a bad song lol that tells me all i need to know. The blacker his bands got, the more he incorporated black musical styles (following trends or not), the more he spoke out on black issues the more he lost that crossover fanbase he gained in 84. They blame it on tony m, polished music, not doing snythesizer and guitar music, not having the revolution, etc but we know what it really is. and that's ok. Folks love a black artist long as they can see themselves in him. the band and the style of music he was making made him easily digestible...that didn't last forever clearly



Prince was always doing crossed-over music.
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Reply #158 posted 03/10/21 8:17am

Se7en

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The whole idea of having a "Hit" anymore is outdated. But as a few people above have said, that's a young person's game! And, the pop world moves pretty quickly.

For a long time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, Prince was a bit out of touch with the music world. The record label revolving door, creating some really sub-par music like Newpower Soul/NPG Power Pack, the aborted High project, doing a few jazz projects at the time . . . stuff that doesn't cry for a "hit".

Musicology was a minor hit, but nothing like The Most Beautiful Girl In The World.

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Reply #159 posted 03/10/21 9:03am

MickyDolenz

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Se7en said:

The whole idea of having a "Hit" anymore is outdated.

I don't know about that. Old hits are the songs that are more likely to be used in movies, TV shows, commercials, TikTok videos, video games, memes, reaction videos on Youtube, oldies/classic rock/retro radio stations etc. It's like performers continue to release Christmas albums with the same 20 or so songs like Jingle Bells or Silent Night. Take On Me by A-Ha has over a billion views on Youtube and has been restored as a 4K video. The record company wouldn't have spent money to do that if Take On Me was forgotten or just an album track. Pitbull sampled it too. There's the popular memes about Septemeber by Earth Wind & Fire and "It's gonna be me (May)" by *Nsync that pop up every year during those months. There's also the Michael Jackson gif from Thriller of him eating popcorn that is used a lot. If hits are outdated, then why is Cardi B everywhere in mainstream media? She wouldn't be if she wasn't currently having hits. Post Malone is being cast in movies and so is Cardi. Mainstream pop culture is still a thing and radio hits are a part of that. If not radio, then streaming hits. That's how Drake, Nicki Minaj, & Lil Wayne have more Hot 100 hits than anyone else in Billboard. There's documentaries about Justin Bieber, Billie Eilish, & Shawn Mendes. You think Wendy Williams would have a TV show if there was no pop culture to gossip about? lol

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #160 posted 03/10/21 9:22am

Germanegro

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I would disagree with you at the point of calling some of the output as bad music, but that is my quirk. It is annoying to me when people label music they don't like as "sub-par" where in truth it does not reflect one's taste--such as one man's treasure being another man's trash, if U will-- It is so typical on these boards! The same thing is reflective of the music labels management, not knowing what to do with a product that they are uneducated enough to handle.
>
But yeah, he was out of touch with his music's sound diverging from the standards of the day, before he really studied those new trends in sound and once again blended the styles in2 his tunes.

Se7en said:

The whole idea of having a "Hit" anymore is outdated. But as a few people above have said, that's a young person's game! And, the pop world moves pretty quickly.

For a long time in the late 1990s/early 2000s, Prince was a bit out of touch with the music world. The record label revolving door, creating some really sub-par music like Newpower Soul/NPG Power Pack, the aborted High project, doing a few jazz projects at the time . . . stuff that doesn't cry for a "hit".

Musicology was a minor hit, but nothing like The Most Beautiful Girl In The World.

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Reply #161 posted 03/10/21 12:24pm

herb4

I never much cared about "hits' -- with Prince or any other music and art I liked.

A TON of my favorite bands, musicians, books and movies were never, EVER chart busters and I think it's a poor way overall to measure the quality of art. This capitalistic approach to judging success has shown us over and over again that "more popular" doesn't always mean "better", especially with art.

By this measure, The Eagles: Greatest Hits is the BEST album of all time. It's a prefectly fine album but does anyone really believe that it's the best one ever made?

Just go peruse the Billboard top 100 year by year and have a look at what was popular, what's good and -- most importantly -- what's stood the test of time.

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Reply #162 posted 03/10/21 12:44pm

RODSERLING

herb4 said:

I never much cared about "hits' -- with Prince or any other music and art I liked.

A TON of my favorite bands, musicians, books and movies were never, EVER chart busters and I think it's a poor way overall to measure the quality of art. This capitalistic approach to judging success has shown us over and over again that "more popular" doesn't always mean "better", especially with art.

By this measure, The Eagles: Greatest Hits is the BEST album of all time. It's a prefectly fine album but does anyone really believe that it's the best one ever made?

Just go peruse the Billboard top 100 year by year and have a look at what was popular, what's good and -- most importantly -- what's stood the test of time.



Other albums sold more than Eagles Greatest hits. Not even taking into account its fake US certifications.
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Reply #163 posted 03/10/21 2:11pm

MickyDolenz

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herb4 said:

Just go peruse the Billboard top 100 year by year and have a look at what was popular, what's good and -- most importantly -- what's stood the test of time.

That pretty much is because certain songs/movies/TV are still promoted in some way. Disco Duck by Rick Dees is still popular today. The Beatles & Elvis Presley still get new audiences because they are often talked about in the music media. They have dolls, board games, video games, clothing, and other merchandise. Elvis has a lot of movies that are shown on TV all the time too. Can't say that about Little Richard or Jackie Wilson, many of their albums are out of print. They don't get the same amount of promotion as The Beatles. Marilyn Monroe is probably more more known as a symbol by many people today than have actually watched her movies. Oldies radio/classic rock only plays certain songs by artists like Freebird & Stairway To Heaven over & over. Disney remake their cartoon movies as live action. Superman was created in the 1930s and Spider-Man in the 1960s and they are still popular because movies/TV shows continue to get made for them. There's Time-Life infomercials selling CD sets of old hits.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #164 posted 03/10/21 4:56pm

Germanegro

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Hmm. The Prince Estate is working around the clock to keep that singular Minneapolis man in the running for relevancy and timeless icon status...to cheers and scorn in the universe of divided tastes! Hail 2 the king-makers.

>>>

MickyDolenz said:



herb4 said:


Just go peruse the Billboard top 100 year by year and have a look at what was popular, what's good and -- most importantly -- what's stood the test of time.



That pretty much is because certain songs/movies/TV are still promoted in some way. Disco Duck by Rick Dees is still popular today. The Beatles & Elvis Presley still get new audiences because they are often talked about in the music media. They have dolls, board games, video games, clothing, and other merchandise. Elvis has a lot of movies that are shown on TV all the time too. Can't say that about Little Richard or Jackie Wilson, many of their albums are out of print. They don't get the same amount of promotion as The Beatles. Marilyn Monroe is probably more more known as a symbol by many people today than have actually watched her movies. Oldies radio/classic rock only plays certain songs by artists like Freebird & Stairway To Heaven over & over. Disney remake their cartoon movies as live action. Superman was created in the 1930s and Spider-Man in the 1960s and they are still popular because movies/TV shows continue to get made for them. There's Time-Life infomercials selling CD sets of old hits.


pimp king pimp
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Reply #165 posted 03/10/21 11:15pm

RODSERLING

Prince succeeded in what most popular 80's artists failed to : have hits in the 90's.
I listened to Simple Minds, Hall and Oatesand Tears For Fears lately,When you think about it, they had big hits until 1989.
Then came the year 1990, and like magic they were all gonegone forever.
[Edited 3/10/21 23:15pm]
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Reply #166 posted 03/11/21 1:08am

ForbiddenFruit

The last hit he wrote for an related artist was Love ...Thy Will Be Done in 1991.

After that no hits for Carmen Electra, Mavis Staples, Rosie Gaines, Mayte, Chaka Khan, Bria Valente or Andy Allo. That has nothing to do with age or too many albums...

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Reply #167 posted 03/11/21 7:03am

Germanegro

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So what would you be trying to say, ForbiddenFruit?

>

*He had poor songwriting for those acts?

*The talent could not sing?

*The acts didn't hit the zeitgiet?

*The music market's radically shifting structure changed hit-makers ability in those post-95 years?

>

A variety of factors could come into play to cause Prince's absence of hits. Which ones would you choose as a reasoning for this? Otherwise you're only stating the obvious, lolz.

>

ForbiddenFruit said:

The last hit he wrote for an related artist was Love ...Thy Will Be Done in 1991.

After that no hits for Carmen Electra, Mavis Staples, Rosie Gaines, Mayte, Chaka Khan, Bria Valente or Andy Allo. That has nothing to do with age or too many albums...

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Reply #168 posted 03/11/21 7:23am

herb4

RODSERLING said:

herb4 said:

I never much cared about "hits' -- with Prince or any other music and art I liked.

A TON of my favorite bands, musicians, books and movies were never, EVER chart busters and I think it's a poor way overall to measure the quality of art. This capitalistic approach to judging success has shown us over and over again that "more popular" doesn't always mean "better", especially with art.

By this measure, The Eagles: Greatest Hits is the BEST album of all time. It's a prefectly fine album but does anyone really believe that it's the best one ever made?

Just go peruse the Billboard top 100 year by year and have a look at what was popular, what's good and -- most importantly -- what's stood the test of time.

Other albums sold more than Eagles Greatest hits. Not even taking into account its fake US certifications.


Yeah that was in the U.S. and it looks like Thriller overtook it again anyway so my information was dated and thanks for the correction, I suppose, but I still think it's relevant to my larger overall point regardless. Let's say The Eagles Greatest Hits was number 12 worldwide.

Is it the 12th best album ever made?

Is Avatar the second greatest movie of all time?

Do we rank Prince's singles and albums according to sales figures? Or his best shows based on attendence?

That's sort of what I was driving at, just to clarify a little.

We can get pedantic about it if we want but I think my overall point/opinion remains pretty obvious.

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Reply #169 posted 03/11/21 7:56am

RODSERLING

ForbiddenFruit said:


The last hit he wrote for an related artist was Love ...Thy Will Be Done in 1991.



After that no hits for Carmen Electra, Mavis Staples, Rosie Gaines, Mayte, Chaka Khan, Bria Valente or Andy Allo. That has nothing to do with age or too many albums...



ThaT s unfair.
After 1991 he was engaged to Mayte, so he couldn't "benefit" From his protegees like he used to.
He was also in feud with WB, and tried to sell his label with 1800 new funk, but that was garbage.


Alicia Keys had a minor hit with How Come U don't Call Me Anymore in 2002.

Prince himself had hits and number ones after 1991.
He was also sampled in the 2000's by the likes of Jay Z, Daft Punk, etc.
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Reply #170 posted 03/11/21 8:20am

tab32792

Good thing I don't gauge how good music is by if it's a hit or not lol

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Reply #171 posted 03/11/21 10:20am

Germanegro

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BINGO! Or by what other people's tastes are, those sheep.
I 'm so greatful that Prince did the musical things that he chose. Charts are for the commercial-focused, people who like to put music into boxes and bean counters. Not bad for them but it is totally not my bag.

tab32792 said:

Good thing I don't gauge how good music is by if it's a hit or not lol


sheep (baa!)
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Reply #172 posted 03/11/21 10:49am

herb4

Weird thing was, thinking on it, he maybe could have had MORE "hits" -- even before the 1995 time period.

It's been discussed a lot, but some of his choices for singles even from his more popular albums were sometimes questionable and odd. If I Was Your Girlfriend and Glam Slam come immediately to mind.

I never much cared about his chart position so long as I liked the songs.

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Reply #173 posted 03/11/21 10:58am

Germanegro

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It was his way of saying WELCOME TO PRINCE-WORLD lo-ellll!


herb4 said:

Weird thing was, thinking on it, he maybe could have had MORE "hits" -- even before the 1995 time period.

It's been discussed a lot, but some of his choices for singles even from his more popular albums were sometimes questionable and odd. If I Was Your Girlfriend and Glam Slam come immediately to mind.

I never much cared about his chart position so long as I liked the songs.


lol omfg flipped off
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Reply #174 posted 03/11/21 11:11am

MickyDolenz

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ForbiddenFruit said:

Mavis Staples

Mavis Staples never really had any hits in the first place outside of The Staple Singers and that was for a few years in the 1970s. The majority of their records before the 1970s were gospel. Gospel/spiritual songs and gospel artists rarely got Top 40 airplay to become hit singles. The gospel singers that did dropped gospel to do secular like Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Johnnie Taylor, Amy Grant, & Lou Rawls.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #175 posted 03/11/21 3:01pm

renfield

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RODSERLING said:

Prince succeeded in what most popular 80's artists failed to : have hits in the 90's. I listened to Simple Minds, Hall and Oatesand Tears For Fears lately,When you think about it, they had big hits until 1989. Then came the year 1990, and like magic they were all gonegone forever. [Edited 3/10/21 23:15pm]

That's not true, at least in the US. Hall & Oates reached #11 in the fall of 1990 with "So Close" (and its follow-up "Don't Hold Back Your Love" just missed the top 40 at #41 in 1991). Simple Minds made the top 40 with "See The Lights" in 1991 and Tears For Fears took the excellent "Break It Down Again" to #25 as late as 1993. They were definitely bigger in the 80s but they each had some lingering commercial power at Top 40 into the early 90s.

[Edited 3/11/21 15:02pm]

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Reply #176 posted 03/11/21 3:13pm

RODSERLING

renfield said:



RODSERLING said:


Prince succeeded in what most popular 80's artists failed to : have hits in the 90's. I listened to Simple Minds, Hall and Oatesand Tears For Fears lately,When you think about it, they had big hits until 1989. Then came the year 1990, and like magic they were all gonegone forever. [Edited 3/10/21 23:15pm]

That's not true, at least in the US. Hall & Oates reached #11 in the fall of 1990 with "So Close" (and its follow-up "Don't Hold Back Your Love" just missed the top 40 at #41 in 1991). Simple Minds made the top 40 with "See The Lights" in 1991 and Tears For Fears took the excellent "Break It Down Again" to #25 as late as 1993. They were definitely bigger in the 80s but they each had some lingering commercial power at Top 40 into the early 90s.

[Edited 3/11/21 15:02pm]



Big hits, like top ten or certified gold single.
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Reply #177 posted 03/11/21 4:58pm

ForbiddenFruit

Prince hasn't had a hit since 1995 because he hasn't written one. Sorry, but that's the truth.

[Edited 3/11/21 16:58pm]

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Reply #178 posted 03/11/21 5:02pm

herb4

Germanegro said:

It was his way of saying WELCOME TO PRINCE-WORLD lo-ellll! herb4 said:

Weird thing was, thinking on it, he maybe could have had MORE "hits" -- even before the 1995 time period.

It's been discussed a lot, but some of his choices for singles even from his more popular albums were sometimes questionable and odd. If I Was Your Girlfriend and Glam Slam come immediately to mind.

I never much cared about his chart position so long as I liked the songs.

lol omfg flipped off


They're fine tracks but not the best choices for singles if an artist is looking for a "hit", and I didn't think that was a controversial opinion.

Which is why I assume you're laughing at me and flipping me off with a no content post but you didn't really specify so I'm not entirely clear what that bullshit was all about. FWIW, I like the songs. Just bad singles. Which is the topic at hand.

IIWYG is a classic track but was a terrible choice for a single. Lovesexy had the title track sitting right there but we got Glam Slam. If you're gonna be a dick, at least explain yourself since, last I checked, neither of the songs I brought up exactly tore shit up and set album sales on fire.

Maybe I'm missing something but it's hard to tell when someone's only contribution is three (pretty offensive) emojis. I guess next time I have an opinion about something I'll just post emojis instead of complete coherent sentences explaining myself and the way I think.


If the mood strikes you, maybe delve into how much tremendous ass those songs I mentioned kicked ass and just crushed on the Hot 100 in ways that really drove album sales. Or not. I'll settle for whatever is locked and loaded on your phone that looks like a piece of poop or whatever.

Good post!

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Reply #179 posted 03/11/21 5:45pm

Germanegro

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No worries here. My intent was to graphically illustrate Prince's LIKELY attitude toward his choice of singles, particularly by way of the selection of emojis--welcome to HIS world and what he would like for your initial take of him to be, criticism be damned ( hence the defiance-symbolizing flipping smiley).
>
I sincerely did not mean to upset you or any other readers out there! Sorry to appear juvenile. I hope U can understand.
wink peace
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