jaawwnn said:

jaawwnn said:

thebanishedone said:

Bang A Gong by T Rex?

People always say that, and while it may be an influence I think it's oversold, Get it On is a standard boogie rocker that was already a throwback in that it quotes Chuck Berry itself, I'm inclined to think Prince was going for that Addicted to Love money with the big production on a simple rocknroll song, expensive video with sexy women dancing in it, and THIS IS A HIT SINGLE YOU IDIOTS stamped all over it.

[Edited 10/19/20 6:34am]

...AND his sexy self dancing in it.

How about a "THIS IS A HIT SINGLE YOU IDIOTS stamped all over songs" thread?

[Edited 10/19/20 7:31am]

CynicKill said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Insecurity Second guessing himself Competitiveness and needing to get a hit both for his ego and to pay the paisley park Bill's Not selling as much as in 84. He kept trying to get back to that. But also, prince has always been a pop artist. Hes always thinking commercially. Left field indie artistry was never going to be fir him. He wanted to be popular, not underground or obscure. He needed that. All that happened was that in the 90s he stopped caring about art and just wanted to be an entertainer. Still in his own way but he didnt want to expand his music or risk very much anymore. He didnt have that confidence with his sales down.

I disagree with this statement, and if it's true he didn't try that hard.

It seems he did everything the dismantle and distance himself from the success of 1984.

Maybe he tried to recapture it in the 90's, but with the material he was releasing, as opposed to what he knew people wanted from him?

he wanted it both ways

wanted the 1984 popularity and couldnt understand why his subsequent albums werent hitting that peak

at the same time, he didnt want that pressure, and all that came with it, and how it meant you have to compare yourself to that over and over and try and repeat it

i guess to reach that kind of commercial peak is a blessing and a curse

Vannormal said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Where do you lot get this nonsense about Prince loving to perform live? There are entire years where he barely got on a stage.

.

In an era where artists tour an album for two years and actually play all over the world, Prince's tours often were short and limited. How many of his European tours consist of him visiting barely a handful of countries? How many American tours consist of him visiting barely a dozen cities? How often has Prince performed in South America? In Asia? In Eastern Europe? His "21 nights" residency in LA only reaches that number if you include a TV performance.

.

For comparison: The Ramones played 2263 concerts in their career, on average more than 100/year. Grateful Dead performed 2318 concerts. Roger Waters did 219 concerts in 2010-13 performing The Wall. Metallica played 170+ concerts on their Wherever We May Roam Tour in 1991-92 and they have several other equally lengthy tours: https://en.wikipedia.org/...cert_tours . Ed Sheeran did almost 260 concerts in 2017-2019 on a single tour.

.

http://www.princevault.co...l_Concerts Look at 2005, 2008 or 2009 for examples of particularly meager years. Or even 1987, where the SOTT Tour lasted barely two months.

-

From the very beginning it was clear that Prince wasn't the kind to do 2318 concerts with the release of any album he did.

It became clear that he was far to creative for that - which got in his way if you will.

He just consumed time to the utmost possible, super demanding, didn't want anyone in the way, and kept that pace even beyond his most prolific peak.

Not to forget he became kind of a spoiled brat if you will after PR.

I truly believe he somehow got alienated from the world and the music scene later in his career, but that's another story.

-

Don't forget that he rehearsed exhaustively for each tour. Even so annoying that most of his band members hated it, that's what I read somewhere.

That's on of the reasons why he prefered super skilled musicians instead of creative ones, or those who were able to bring in something he did nog know.

He wasn't the kind to keep a long interest span on whatever too - it's clearly being documented by others.

He wanted it all and fast, and being super competitive on top of all that.

He just couldn't think things over and obviously resulted in the choices he made through his lifetime.

You can agree with that or you can be against it. (I also did not always agreed upon his made decisions.)

-

one thing i didnt understand is why he didnt downsize his bands in the 90s and 00s more

yes he did it in the last few years, with 3e girl and the PM tour, but before that, it wasnt always necessary to have a whole horn section, dancers, the whole nine.

would have saved him quite abit, as well as just been more interesting tbh - in the late 80s the horns were exciting. later, as he got to having more than just 2 players like he had EL and AB, they just became routine, not always necessary.

MattyJam said:

rednblue said:

Since people are talking D and P, how about Thunder? I love it, though I get the sense that there's plenty of fans that find it cheesy and don't like it at all.

Whether people are into the song or not, does that song contribute to the idea that D and P was about going more mainstream for commercial success? Maybe it should be obvious, but I live under enough of a rock to often have no clue of where mainstream is, or isn't.

Thunder is one of those "tacky" Prince songs, that I would put in a category with Arms of Orion, My Name Is Prince, Graffiti Bridge and New Power Generation. Gold very narrowly escapes falling into this category, but gets a pass as its a much better song than the others I mentioned. But in general, his songwriting definitely became markedly less sophisticated after Lovesexy. [Edited 10/19/20 0:21am]

Thank you for response, and for your reaction to Lovesexy as a bit of an end of an era for you. Thanks also for the song examples!

Guess it just shows my bad taste, because I enjoy Thunder and My Name Is Prince a LOT more than Gold.

Haven't learned to like Gold. Of bolded songs, I don't really like any aside from loving My Name Is Prince. On second thought, New Power Generation can be OK sometimes.

Have heard a rumor that before talks broke down, My Name Is Prince was set to be heard on the Simpsons as "My Name Is Bart." Anyone know if there's truth to that?

There is a set of Prince songs that for me are SUPER campy. They're "We Da Best" type songs, and some of them (probably because they are IMO so campy, and IMO have a tongue-in-cheek vibe) are really fun. If there was zero sense of tongue in cheek, they'd be insufferable.

But as they are, these songs are a GREAT experience for listening. The other song that comes to mind right now, along with My Name Is Prince, is Laydown. These songs are great for singing in the shower, housemates be damned.

rednblue said:

haha i like my name is prince and his campier songs too.

but do i think theyre masterpieces up there with computer blue? no.

OperatingThetan said:

tab32792 said:

tab32792 said:

OperatingThetan said:

Prince updated his sound, had one of his most bestselling albums and gained a new generation of fans. I frankly don't percieve any compromise of his art at all. Is Morris Day truly deeper than Tony M or is it merely a matter of taste? The rap style of the early 90s dated quickly, but lyrically much of Tony M's material on the 'Gold Nigga' album for example, is much more socially conscious than anything by The Time. It's just a matter of preferences and production.

This. All of this

Interesting. Should have realized, when saw this comment upthread, to go listen to Gold Nigga.

The Time was BIG in Prince's early-80's world. Compromise implies that something was lost later, as time went on. As an aside, logic doesn't rule out things also gained, but IMO the thread title does put the focus on something lost to compromise.

To state the obvious, The Time was full of amazing musicians. Also, clearly, I love fun songs, even what some might find too over-the-top silly fun songs, and I love a few Time songs. Love them because they are fun.

What (if anything) does Prince's work with the Time in the 80's, vs. his later songs with rap elements, say about there having been a compromise (or not)?

[Edited 10/19/20 12:42pm]

tab32792 said:

I’m starting to wonder if a lot of people like Prince at all lol compromising sound is a lazy ass reaction. Nothing on the radio sounded like Gett Off or Sexy MF; whether you liked it or not

Yes. That was my thought about Get Off and Sexy MF. Even Thunder (and sorry to mention in same breath , but I like it a lot; maybe I've just got cheesy taste). All sounded like nothing I was hearing on the radio.

Maybe I was listening to the wrong radio, but they sure weren't just imitations of what was to be found on the airwaves round my town.

[Edited 10/19/20 13:43pm]

With the whole rap thing, which I didn't like, because I thought it was one of the few things that Prince just wasn't good at ....I just thought he was trying to keep up with the time, and what was getting big, that people were in to. I don't think he comprimised anything, nor do I think he dumb down anything either.

In before the lock!

Vannormal said:

If you see the pictures from the investigation, and how Paisley Park looked like in the end...

to me it all looked very badly maintained. He lived there in the end...

Although I'm not an expert, I could be completely wrong on his financial part.

.

It was also hinted at in several post-death articles, e.g. the big NYT article where they discussed how they found a lot of costumes etc. It is never stated explicitely, but there is a strong subtext that suggests PP was in a bad state. Hence the urgency to start tours of the complex: they needed funds for the upkeep. The articles of journalists visiting PP in the latter years for interviews also describe a barebones crew; IMHO you cannot maintain and operate such a place with just a handful of people. The "cash on hand" that was reported in the investigation was also pretty meager. There had been several articles over the years of him failing to pay his taxes (and this often involved missing several payments), and IIRC at one time his lawyers sued him for not paying them. There was an article recently where it was reported that Prince had brought in an engineer to fix both of the recording studios in PP because they had falen in disrepair (mid-2000s IIRC).

RJOrion said:

the "real" Prince was his first 2 lps...if anything he compromised/sacrificed that sound to become a superstar...then when he got to the mountaintop, he didnt like the view, and spent the rest of his career/life trying to find himself again...WB wanted him to be the overthetop promiscuous gender bending racially ambiguous act he became, and in return they gave him the world...when he realized he was just a pawn in WB's bigger agenda, he realized he was just a slave...it wasnt just about lp releases and creative control over projects like Crystal Ball...the lyrics of "U Know" is telling u how the entertainment industry can enslave you through tactics like blackmail...lyrically and sonically, AOA was the least compromised Prince lp ever... he giving alot of inside info in tbis lp, even if u have to read between some lines at times

I agree that first two albums was Prince at the time.But i dont think

WB wanted him to be overthetop promiscuous gender bending racially

ambiguous act ,and i will explain why.

If you make an album Dirty Mind,you can't really expect that those songs will be played on the radio.

Actually i bet that WB suits were baffled with what Prince start doing from

1980,but Mo Ostin did say "i believe in this kid" so Prince had a go. WB

wanted hit machine and Prince managed to pack pop hooks with a music that was not so pop in its nature.

looby said:

BartVanHemelen said:

To suggest Prince compromised his music by introducing rap into it is like saying Prince compromised his art by using drums in his music. It's kind of moot.

Milty2 said:

MattyJam said:

rednblue said:

Thank you for response, and for your reaction to Lovesexy as a bit of an end of an era for you. Thanks also for the song examples!

Guess it just shows my bad taste, because I enjoy Thunder and My Name Is Prince a LOT more than Gold.

Haven't learned to like Gold. Of bolded songs, I don't really like any aside from loving My Name Is Prince. On second thought, New Power Generation can be OK sometimes.

Have heard a rumor that before talks broke down, My Name Is Prince was set to be heard on the Simpsons as "My Name Is Bart." Anyone know if there's truth to that?

There is a set of Prince songs that for me are SUPER campy. They're "We Da Best" type songs, and some of them (probably because they are IMO so campy, and IMO have a tongue-in-cheek vibe) are really fun. If there was zero sense of tongue in cheek, they'd be insufferable.

But as they are, these songs are a GREAT experience for listening. The other song that comes to mind right now, along with My Name Is Prince, is Laydown. These songs are great for singing in the shower, housemates be damned.

Yeah, tbh, I still enjoy some of these songs, they just feel a bit tacky or dumbed down compared to his 80s work. As a long time fan, I've come to grow fond of all aspects of the man's work, the good, the bad and the ugly.

Just remembered that the origins of one of these songs (Graffitti Bridge) goes back to at least 1982. As I understand it the Graffitti Bridge album has multiple songs (e.g. Tick Tick Bang) with versions going back some years.

Someone mentioned The Time in connection with looking at Prince's music across the years. How do you see The Time music relating (or not) to the OP.

Love the variety in Prince's work. These days, I listen to a LOT of Prince music. Don't think I'd be drawn to listen to so incredibly much music connected to many other artists, and I think it has a lot to do with how Prince was so incredibly prolific, versatile, and talented.

[Edited 10/19/20 16:09pm]

Milty2 said:

To suggest Prince compromised his music by introducing rap into it is like saying Prince compromised his art by using drums in his music. It's kind of moot.

I never said that.But i have a feeling that Prince never really liked hip hop(If it ain't Chuck D,
Or Jam Master Jay,
Know what?
They're losin ) so he added rap cause he wanted to be more street,it was a calculation. Prince didn't make 1999 album replacing acoustic drums with Linn LM1 because he was thinking about making hits.

He did it because he wanted to push all the bounderies in music.

In the previous posts it was said that maybe Prince wanted

to show that he is a regular normal dude who can make a Philly soul

conventional music with some hip hop cause kids like that?

And a funny thing is without rap Diamods And Pearls album would still be a hit album.

I have a feeling that Prince wasn't comfortable in his skin until 2004

when it became cool again to like Prince.

He realised that people like him for who he was ,not because he adds some modern sounds .

The only time Prince regein his weirdess and being wild and experimental with getting final product

as a masterpiece is The Rainbow Children.I like electro funk 1999 era Prince

the best but i can't deny

how amazing The Rainbow Children is.No matter the lyrical content,every single note is amazing,even The Wedding Fest.that song was a mock opera and it wasn't meant to be serious.

It was just a transition from the serious and bit heavy dogmatic and political topics to a different subject (love,death,meaning of life,integrity...)

[Edited 10/19/20 15:57pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

haha i like my name is prince and his campier songs too.

but do i think theyre masterpieces up there with computer blue? no.

No argument here! Computer Blue (extended hallway speech version) is my favorite of all the Purple Rain album songs/song variants.

Do you have thoughts on where The Time music fits (or not) with the OP's contrast of Prince's 80's music with music from D+P on out?

thebanishedone said:

Milty2 said:

To suggest Prince compromised his music by introducing rap into it is like saying Prince compromised his art by using drums in his music. It's kind of moot.

I never said that.But i have a feeling that Prince never really liked hip hop(If it ain't Chuck D,
Or Jam Master Jay,
Know what?
They're losin ) so he added rap cause he wanted to be more street,it was a calculation. Prince didn't make 1999 album replacing acoustic drums with Linn LM1 because he was thinking about making hits.

He did it because he wanted to push all the bounderies in music.

In the previous posts it was said that maybe Prince wanted

to show that he is a regular normal dude who can make a Philly soul

conventional music with some hip hop cause kids like that?

And a funny thing is without rap Diamods And Pearls album would still be a hit album.

I have a feeling that Prince wasn't comfortable in his skin until 2004

when it became cool again to like Prince.

He realised that people like him for who he was ,not because he adds some modern sounds .

The only time Prince regein his weirdess and being wild and experimental with getting final product

as a masterpiece is The Rainbow Children.I like electro funk 1999 era Prince

the best but i can't deny

how amazing The Rainbow Children is.No matter the lyrical content,every single note is amazing,even The Wedding Fest.that song was a mock opera and it wasn't meant to be serious.

It was just a transition from the serious and bit heavy dogmatic and political topics to a different subject (love,death,meaning of life,integrity...)

[Edited 10/19/20 15:57pm]

I don't find Prince pursuing or forging only one or two paths in the 1990s. Do you agree that Prince made a huge variety of music during that time? Not meaning to imply that you said his scope was narrower, just curious what you think. : )

[Edited 10/19/20 17:38pm]

prince never quite understood hip hop. or dance music.

but prince being prince, that never stopped him trying to make either.

he always thought he could do anything in music lol.

kudos to him for trying everything but its quite clear what he was genuinely great at and what he wasnt.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

prince never quite understood hip hop. or dance music.

but prince being prince, that never stopped him trying to make either.

he always thought he could do anything in music lol.

kudos to him for trying everything but its quite clear what he was genuinely great at and what he wasnt.

Maybe it's a question of what's meant by dance music, but didn't Prince have music beloved and in good rotation at dance places?

BartVanHemelen said:

Vannormal said:

If you see the pictures from the investigation, and how Paisley Park looked like in the end...

to me it all looked very badly maintained. He lived there in the end...

Although I'm not an expert, I could be completely wrong on his financial part.

.

It was also hinted at in several post-death articles, e.g. the big NYT article where they discussed how they found a lot of costumes etc. It is never stated explicitely, but there is a strong subtext that suggests PP was in a bad state. Hence the urgency to start tours of the complex: they needed funds for the upkeep. The articles of journalists visiting PP in the latter years for interviews also describe a barebones crew; IMHO you cannot maintain and operate such a place with just a handful of people. The "cash on hand" that was reported in the investigation was also pretty meager. There had been several articles over the years of him failing to pay his taxes (and this often involved missing several payments), and IIRC at one time his lawyers sued him for not paying them. There was an article recently where it was reported that Prince had brought in an engineer to fix both of the recording studios in PP because they had falen in disrepair (mid-2000s IIRC).

-

I was aware there were financial problems in his carreer, but not so much in detail. Thanks.

-
His lifestyle was pretty flamboyant and over the top, that was clear. For a while the focus was no longer on the creative artist Prince, but rather on his routine live concerts, which were quite okay at times, but certainly not always.

A good writer, journalist should try and create a good article or book around these financial insights and facts.

All these tidbits of information give a much wider and clearer view on all things Prince.

His financial situation throughout his life undoubtedly influenced his creativity.

At least, that's what I'm starting to notice and it is becoming more clear tbh.

The keeping up appearances is becomming more and more obvious.

The sloppiness of all this will become even more apparent once the best years of SDE and re-releases are over, and idolatry goes by. It will take some time to get to that, or not.

I've been to all his tours in 90's and 00's, saw several shows multiple times.

But somehow they sounded and looked uninspired, even a bit bored, at least to me.

I honestly felt that he did not enjoyed it very much. When I look back at those tours, of course there were fantastic and great moments, but he started to live on his popularity and autopilot, no one can really deny that.

But hey, again, that's why we are constantly here, trying to figure it all out.

-

[Edited 10/20/20 0:54am]

it was partly intentional : in updating his sound to incorporate his version of what was prevelent

he had simply finished his hot streak and the muse changed ..which happens to most all musicians ..he didnt hear in his head the same quality of material he used to..he got older and the access to the veil is much harder and more sporadic

he withdrew from some of the people who may have stimulated him creatively

the entire frame changed and it seems like his paintings werent the fit they were previously..art is usually bound to society ..and is only relevent while that remains

think he was at points genuinely serious about starting a family ..that requires some energy shift in the balance of the ego ..

imho