OldFriends4Sale said:

JudasLChrist said:

His worst era. Most definitely.

This was the 20Ten album period ?

He started saying vile shit around Rainbow Children. I think it was all over by 20Ten.

JudasLChrist said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I think prince never stopped competing with purple rain Not just cos he wanted the fame and success but because he knew it would give him clout that lesser sales didnt Also the paisley Bill's which were a million or so a month (!) So in the 90s, all these things conspired against him Once he left warners he had to start anew each time he signed with a new label But ultimately he released what he wanted [Edited 10/29/20 13:35pm]

Maybe after 'Around the World in a Day'

JudasLChrist said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It's hard for people to reconcile by Prince's father was very conservative and Prince was very much like him. in the last 15yrs of his life he was very much so.

The interview about him liking Muslim societies because the way of things is plain for everyone and some other things showed a lot of his conservative side.

His worst era. Most definitely.

I think 0F4S was looking for a time frame for this. Prince said something similar in the Guardian in 2011. Is that the interview you meant?


https://www.theguardian.c...e-internet

RJOrion said:

JudasLChrist said:

He started saying vile shit around Rainbow Children. I think it was all over by 20Ten.

whats an example of vile shit?

So, I really should let JudasLChrist speak on this, since the question was to him.

But one example alluded to earlier could be interpreted as appreciation for people not having a choice as to which religion, or lack thereof, they outwardly express. I think some would say that's vile.

Margot said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I think prince never stopped competing with purple rain Not just cos he wanted the fame and success but because he knew it would give him clout that lesser sales didnt Also the paisley Bill's which were a million or so a month (!) So in the 90s, all these things conspired against him Once he left warners he had to start anew each time he signed with a new label But ultimately he released what he wanted [Edited 10/29/20 13:35pm]

Maybe after 'Around the World in a Day'

Love Around the World in a Day! Supposedly, the classic hope for entertainment companies with a blockbuster on their hands is to get a sequel, Blockbuster 2...which in this case would be Purple Rain 2.

Even understanding this, I think it's sad that when Prince brought his group to introduce Warners to ATWIAD music, Warners was underwhelmed. That's assuming what I've read about the Warners immediate reaction is accurate.

IMO, Around the World's new and different (to Purple Rain's) music is out of this world.

By that point in time, Warners knew that Prince would bring the great unexpected. How could some of those company people not recognize that the music was so cool?

Oh, well. At least it got out to everyone. That's what's important.

RJOrion said:

JudasLChrist said:

He started saying vile shit around Rainbow Children. I think it was all over by 20Ten.

whats an example of vile shit?

Yeah what is the defintion of this? It's a bit extreme.

rednblue said:

Margot said:

Maybe after 'Around the World in a Day'

Love Around the World in a Day! Supposedly, the classic hope for entertainment companies with a blockbuster on their hands is to get a sequel, Blockbuster 2...which in this case would be Purple Rain 2.

Even understanding this, I think it's sad that when Prince brought his group to introduce Warners to ATWIAD music, Warners was underwhelmed. That's assuming what I've read about the Warners immediate reaction is accurate.

IMO, Around the World's new and different (to Purple Rain's) music is out of this world.

By that point in time, Warners knew that Prince would bring the great unexpected. How could some of those company people not recognize that the music was so cool?

Oh, well. At least it got out to everyone. That's what's important.

I'm not wild about the album but releasing ATWIAD on the heels of Purple Rain was one of the smartest things he ever did from an artistic standpoint. Almost the opposite of compromise.

JudasLChrist said:

herb4 said:

rednblue said:

Love Around the World in a Day! Supposedly, the classic hope for entertainment companies with a blockbuster on their hands is to get a sequel, Blockbuster 2...which in this case would be Purple Rain 2.

Even understanding this, I think it's sad that when Prince brought his group to introduce Warners to ATWIAD music, Warners was underwhelmed. That's assuming what I've read about the Warners immediate reaction is accurate.

IMO, Around the World's new and different (to Purple Rain's) music is out of this world.

By that point in time, Warners knew that Prince would bring the great unexpected. How could some of those company people not recognize that the music was so cool?

Oh, well. At least it got out to everyone. That's what's important.

I'm not wild about the album but releasing ATWIAD on the heels of Purple Rain was one of the smartest things he ever did from an artistic standpoint. Almost the opposite of compromise.

Completely agree about compromise and artistry! I THINK that might relate to Margot's point. That is, that Prince was fully embracing a contrast when it came to looking to Purple Rain at time of ATWIAD. And with a different attitude toward any sort of competition with PR than that he may have had at other times. But I should stop trying to speak for people.

If you don't mind my asking, were you relatively more enthusiastic when Parade came along?

To clarify my point; he put artistry ahead of $$ with 'Around the World...', but IMO, money was a prioity most of the time as well.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He put artistry ahead of other concerns but he never quite got why that wouldnt be as well received He always thought everything should be a hit

I think he likely knew that some of the 'artistry' was not up to speed.

The definition of "compromise" can be very broad but I don't think he compromised anything the more I think about it. Well, no more or less than any other major idiosyncratic artist like Bob Dylan or David Bowie. I think when he wanted a hit, he would write a hit or something "mainstream" if it suited him. TMBGITW is a perfect example. He had something to prove to the world and WB and so he wrote a hit song. Same goes for Diamonds & Pearls. When he wanted to go left field, he did so. ATWIAD is the best example. Purple Rain was such a success that I bet he thought he could afford to pivot to something left field (but it was still a hit album anyway).

As for the later years (maybe post Warners), he now had nothing to prove. He may have tried to be mainstream or be more adventurous but I think Prince was now doing whatever he wanted. I mean RAVE wasn't exactly a hit even though it had a lot of mainstream elements but he followed it up with The Rainbow Children which was full of his religious outlooks and was a hard listen for a lot of people. But I love that album.

Maybe he did compromise and I suppose every artist in the music business does at some point. We now know that he acquiesed to WB when they asked him to whittle down Crystall Ball but at the end of the day, we will NEVER really know.

Margot said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Margot said:

I think he likely knew that some of the 'artistry' was not up to speed.

Well yeah. In the 90s especially Tbh I like the early to mid 90s albums But they are not really artistically challenging or interesting anymore, they're just good fun, (and ok fairly dumb at times too) entertainment. More of a fuller band sound. Just honest to goodness prince (with various cringe moments too). So I evaluate it on those terms. The artistic goals were very meagre. [Edited 10/31/20 3:21am]

I know we could talk individual songs for a LONG time. Can't resist bringing up at least one. : )

I love 7. Its originality (at least to me) and the way of Prince's layered vocals are just a couple of examples of things I love about the song. Is 7 an interesting song to you?

Oh...and as it turns out, gotta make it four. To bring out a few others dear to me, how about Solo (do realize lyrics not by Prince), Dark, and She Spoke To Me?

Do understand you may not want to comment on all these. Just curious what people think. : )

[Edited 10/31/20 7:02am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I find 7 a very leaden song. It never really goes anywhere for me. It's a bit like slave (1996). Just sort of sits in one level for the whole time. She spoke to me I love. Dark I like a lot too. But neither are really innovative or inventive exactly, they're just good. If every track on gold or come was as strong as these I wouĺdnt complain though. More experimental tracks like solo would be cool too. That's another good one. So I'm not saying the 90s were bad, far from it, merely that the goal (to be an artist) wasn't there anymore, it was more about being a great musician or bandleader and just playing honest to goodness music and putting on a show. Entertaining. Basically not trying as hard.

Appreciate your thoughts, and great to meet a fellow She Spoke 2 Me lover.

I'm not a musician, so can only offer clunky descriptions of some musical things. For example, this song has a

"trailing Da Da Da Da Da Dum"

that I really love and strikes me as unusual. But who knows, as like I said, I'm not a musician.

It's like "...she spoke to me Da Da Da Da Da Dum..."

I also dig Prince talking about "diggin' the scene" amidst all the instrumental stuff toward the end. : )

And adore the vocals/sounds through this passage:

"I'll take it all with open arms, U see?
U think I won't?
Cuz like a track under a subway train
She could roll all over me and I'd still b the same
Cuz 2day is the day she spoke 2 me"



Thanks again for your thoughts.


Edited To Add: two Da's.
Been humming the song and counting five (vs. four) Da's before the Dum.

[Edited 10/31/20 10:12am]

CAL3 said:

JudasLChrist said:

Prince became a full on social conservative for a minute. And he used to give large amounts of money to Minnesota's Republican Senator back in the 90s.

. Also if it hadn’t been mentioned as a reminder yet, Prince openly supported censorship. Of all the people in the world to advocate for censorship, hearing Prince call for it was a true heartbreaker.

Not as I recall, assuming you're talking about the PMRC Darling Nikki thing. Prince just didn't have a particular problem with putting parental warning lable stickers on albums was all. He was fine with it and said it was a good thing that parents were able to know more about the music their kids were hearing. SHit, for all I know he - like a lot of other artists - welcomed the warning sticker because he knew it would help move records.

Maybe you're talking though about some of the Rainbow Children era shit he started talking that was much more rigid and very disappointing to me.

Milty2 said:

The definition of "compromise" can be very broad but I don't think he compromised anything the more I think about it. Well, no more or less than any other major idiosyncratic artist like Bob Dylan or David Bowie. I think when he wanted a hit, he would write a hit or something "mainstream" if it suited him. TMBGITW is a perfect example. He had something to prove to the world and WB and so he wrote a hit song. Same goes for Diamonds & Pearls. When he wanted to go left field, he did so. ATWIAD is the best example. Purple Rain was such a success that I bet he thought he could afford to pivot to something left field (but it was still a hit album anyway).

As for the later years (maybe post Warners), he now had nothing to prove. He may have tried to be mainstream or be more adventurous but I think Prince was now doing whatever he wanted. I mean RAVE wasn't exactly a hit even though it had a lot of mainstream elements but he followed it up with The Rainbow Children which was full of his religious outlooks and was a hard listen for a lot of people. But I love that album.

Maybe he did compromise and I suppose every artist in the music business does at some point. We now know that he acquiesed to WB when they asked him to whittle down Crystall Ball but at the end of the day, we will NEVER really know.

Where does Batman fit in?

herb4 said:

CAL3 said:

JudasLChrist said: . Also if it hadn’t been mentioned as a reminder yet, Prince openly supported censorship. Of all the people in the world to advocate for censorship, hearing Prince call for it was a true heartbreaker.

Not as I recall, assuming you're talking about the PMRC Darling Nikki thing. Prince just didn't have a particular problem with putting parental warning lable stickers on albums was all. He was fine with it and said it was a good thing that parents were able to know more about the music their kids were hearing. SHit, for all I know he - like a lot of other artists - welcomed the warning sticker because he knew it would help move records.

Maybe you're talking though about some of the Rainbow Children era shit he started talking that was much more rigid and very disappointing to me.

I guess, for a time, Prince needed and wanted certainty. JW doctrine and more...

As he healed, much or most of that rigidity fell away.

just because someone makes a record album with 'religious' themes that you dont agree with, doesnt make it "vile"...that an extreme and misplaced adjective.

JudasLChrist noted "vile shit" upthread. I find him a thoughtful guy, and I'd much like to hear his elaborated thoughts. Are you still here, JudasLChrist?

I had wondered earlier if what Judas and others had in mind might include Prince comments that "MIGHT be interpreted as appreciation for people not having a choice as to which religion, or lack thereof, they outwardly express."

Which is (of course) different from "a record album with 'religious' themes that you dont agree with."

A side note: As an agnositic heathen, I find that religious people are SOMETIMES less distressed in addressing me than they are in addressing people of denominations/religions different from their own. Maybe it's 'cause lost causes like me aren't worth getting worked up over.

herb4 said:

Milty2 said:

The definition of "compromise" can be very broad but I don't think he compromised anything the more I think about it. Well, no more or less than any other major idiosyncratic artist like Bob Dylan or David Bowie. I think when he wanted a hit, he would write a hit or something "mainstream" if it suited him. TMBGITW is a perfect example. He had something to prove to the world and WB and so he wrote a hit song. Same goes for Diamonds & Pearls. When he wanted to go left field, he did so. ATWIAD is the best example. Purple Rain was such a success that I bet he thought he could afford to pivot to something left field (but it was still a hit album anyway).

As for the later years (maybe post Warners), he now had nothing to prove. He may have tried to be mainstream or be more adventurous but I think Prince was now doing whatever he wanted. I mean RAVE wasn't exactly a hit even though it had a lot of mainstream elements but he followed it up with The Rainbow Children which was full of his religious outlooks and was a hard listen for a lot of people. But I love that album.

Maybe he did compromise and I suppose every artist in the music business does at some point. We now know that he acquiesed to WB when they asked him to whittle down Crystall Ball but at the end of the day, we will NEVER really know.

Where does Batman fit in?

I don't know but I figure he might have wanted to be attached to something that was going to be successful. Does that mean he compromised? I don't think it does. Unless Prince said something about "never compromising" before Batman came along, then yeah maybe - MAYBE. Like I said, the word "compromise" can have a broad definition and just because he went mainstream in sound or hits or whatever anyone defines it as, it does not mean he was or wasn't tuned in when it came to making "art".

herb4 said:

CAL3 said:

JudasLChrist said: . Also if it hadn’t been mentioned as a reminder yet, Prince openly supported censorship. Of all the people in the world to advocate for censorship, hearing Prince call for it was a true heartbreaker.

Not as I recall, assuming you're talking about the PMRC Darling Nikki thing. Prince just didn't have a particular problem with putting parental warning lable stickers on albums was all. He was fine with it and said it was a good thing that parents were able to know more about the music their kids were hearing. SHit, for all I know he - like a lot of other artists - welcomed the warning sticker because he knew it would help move records.

Maybe you're talking though about some of the Rainbow Children era shit he started talking that was much more rigid and very disappointing to me.

Is anybody who noted censorship thinking of Prince "censoring" himself?

Morris Hayes said Prince asked him to work on redoing audio to take out curse words in songs. Morris said (paraphrasing, so may not be getting the idea quite right) he told Prince that Prince's past ways with songs were (of course) part of Prince's past self, and that you can't really erase the past. Plus, what a person did in the past is part of what shapes who a person is in the present.

Enjoyed hearing Prince (at times, in a couple of interviews) express sentiments similar to what Morris had to say.

Milty2 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Milty2 said:

I don't know but I figure he might have wanted to be attached to something that was going to be successful. Does that mean he compromised? I don't think it does. Unless Prince said something about "never compromising" before Batman came along, then yeah maybe - MAYBE. Like I said, the word "compromise" can have a broad definition and just because he went mainstream in sound or hits or whatever anyone defines it as, it does not mean he was or wasn't tuned in when it came to making "art".

Nothing wrong with doing a film soundtrack, esp for a film better than his own But he didnt really do a great job Sounds like he knocked it out very quickly

Yes I agree that there was nothing wrong with doing a film soundtrack but I beg to differ on whether he did a good job. I also bet that Batman was one of those unexpected projects that just happened to come along and he decided to take it on. According to Prince Vault, it looks like he went straight into recording the album for about 6 weeks after the Lovesexy Tour wrapped. That is a very quick turnaround for a major artist but other albums by other artists have been recorded in even shorter time frames - case in point, Bruce Springsteen's new album.

He probably also had to meet a deadline set by the studio in order to coincide with the film's release and so he banged out this album which I happen to think is a good album. For all the "rebelness" that we think Prince possessed, I also believe he had the ability to work with the people who ran the music business and be a team player.

rednblue said:

JudasLChrist noted "vile shit" upthread. I find him a thoughtful guy, and I'd much like to hear his elaborated thoughts. Are you still here, JudasLChrist?

I had wondered earlier if what Judas and others had in mind might include Prince comments that "MIGHT be interpreted as appreciation for people not having a choice as to which religion, or lack thereof, they outwardly express."

Which is (of course) different from "a record album with 'religious' themes that you dont agree with."

A side note: As an agnositic heathen, I find that religious people are SOMETIMES less distressed in addressing me than they are in addressing people of denominations/religions different from their own. Maybe it's 'cause lost causes like me aren't worth getting worked up over.

The thing about Muslim societies thing that he talked about in an interview that you are referring to is vile, but also his JW lite-jazz album where gets anti-semetic is also vile. I have no qualms calling that record out other than I don't want to get into it with 2000s-era die-hards here on the org again. Asking Wendy and Lisa to denounce Judaism, their homosexuality and convert to JW was vile. Total fallen hero shit in my eyes. The homophobic comments he had to have his publicist retract were vile. The way he treated Mayte when she wouldn't convert was vile. "A New Theocratic Order" was beyond vile. it went beyond "these are my religious beliefs" into awful politics that effect people. I was so shocked by it at the time that I actually stopped buying Prince records.

I won't support a theofascist, even it's Prince. Thankfully, he eventually calmed the fuck down on all that shit, even if he didn't exactly make good with the people he hurt in the process.