JudasLChrist said:

rednblue said:

JudasLChrist noted "vile shit" upthread. I find him a thoughtful guy, and I'd much like to hear his elaborated thoughts. Are you still here, JudasLChrist?

I had wondered earlier if what Judas and others had in mind might include Prince comments that "MIGHT be interpreted as appreciation for people not having a choice as to which religion, or lack thereof, they outwardly express."

Which is (of course) different from "a record album with 'religious' themes that you dont agree with."

A side note: As an agnositic heathen, I find that religious people are SOMETIMES less distressed in addressing me than they are in addressing people of denominations/religions different from their own. Maybe it's 'cause lost causes like me aren't worth getting worked up over.

The thing about Muslim societies thing that he talked about in an interview that you are referring to is vile, but also his JW lite-jazz album where gets anti-semetic is also vile. I have no qualms calling that record out other than I don't want to get into it with 2000s-era die-hards here on the org again. Asking Wendy and Lisa to denounce Judaism, their homosexuality and convert to JW was vile. Total fallen hero shit in my eyes. The homophobic comments he had to have his publicist retract were vile. The way he treated Mayte when she wouldn't convert was vile. "A New Theocratic Order" was beyond vile. it went beyond "these are my religious beliefs" into awful politics that effect people. I was so shocked by it at the time that I actually stopped buying Prince records.

I won't support a theofascist, even it's Prince. Thankfully, he eventually calmed the fuck down on all that shit, even if he didn't exactly make good with the people he hurt in the process.

Thank you so much for your thoughts! Don't blame you in the least for not wanting to set in motion debate cycles traversed many times over.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

JudasLChrist said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

There was also the whole not getting mayte medical help she needed cos JW believe in letting nature take its course. Gotta respect peoples beliefs but isnt that maytes decision too?

It is, but this is that thing about power dynamics that people talk about. Prince pulled her from a crowd when she was 16 had a quasi-relationship with her till she was 18 and then was dating her until she was married and pregnant at 23. She went from financial independence at 16, where she had $100,000 in the bank from belly dancing, to being underpaid, broke, staffer on Prince’s payroll. Her life completely revolved around him and his work. He wasn’t someone who like to be said “no” to, either.

Co-sign

joyinrepetition said:

Prince knew that rap scene was coming on strong in the early 90's, so he tried to embrace it. The mistake I think he made was not collaborating with an established rapper like LL Cool J or somebody. It would have made his efforts more legit.

INTERVIEW * MAY 1997

THE ARTIST

SL: Do you feel that you successfully incorporated rap into your music. Sometimes it felt like it was just stuck on.

the Artist: I've gotten some criticism for the rap I've chosen to put in my past work. But there again, it came during my friction years. If you notice, not a lot of that stuff is incorporated into my sets now. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you hear the new remixes we are working on. On the rap tip though, it is an old style and I have always done it kind of differently -- half sung, you know, like "Irresistible Bitch" and some of the other things I use to do.

OldFriends4Sale said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

wilmer said:

Compared to Purple Rain, we would consider every subsequent Prince album as a commercial disappointment. It would make sense. But they weren't. They did sell in good numbers. They just weren't Purple Rain numbers. Far as I'm concerned, if they were in the Top 10, he did pretty good.

I said it before and I'll say it again, we all desperately wanted Prince to do well all the time. Some days he did better, some days he did not. Oh well.

heartpeacesheart said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

It didnt get much better. Just went from trying to do it in house and getting a gun mic and affecting macho BS to getting old rappers like Doug e fresh lol

HEY. Can someone please lock this thread? Seems like the more I log in to this site the more y'all wanna add to it but today you really got me going when you brought Dougie Fresh in the mix. Dougie Fresh is a God and y'all just seem upset that you didn't go to more shows and ya SHOULD be. There.

LOL...Dougie Fresh was no "God"...the brother made beats with his lips and plenty saliva...not exactly Divine skills at work right there

heartpeacesheart said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

It didnt get much better. Just went from trying to do it in house and getting a gun mic and affecting macho BS to getting old rappers like Doug e fresh lol

HEY. Can someone please lock this thread? Seems like the more I log in to this site the more y'all wanna add to it but today you really got me going when you brought Dougie Fresh in the mix. Dougie Fresh is a God and y'all just seem upset that you didn't go to more shows and ya SHOULD be. There.

I saw Dougie, live in 1984 or 85 I think it was a Fresh Fest II concert

but by the time 0+> hooked up with him... it's why 0+> hooked up with him

.

When 1980s NEW BREED Prince did 'rap' it was not the genre rap, it was 'rap' like Blondi and it was twisted to mesh with Purple Music. Even the transmississipi rap on IGBABN. was something only could have happened in that 1982-1986 company

Milty2 said:

Compared to Purple Rain, we would consider every subsequent Prince album as a commercial disappointment. It would make sense. But they weren't. They did sell in good numbers. They just weren't Purple Rain numbers. Far as I'm concerned, if they were in the Top 10, he did pretty good.

I said it before and I'll say it again, we all desperately wanted Prince to do well all the time. Some days he did better, some days he did not. Oh well.

I agree, We wanted our hero to to blow up everytime.
I still say 1986 could have been HUGE, but Prince thought Christopher and Tricky could hold it down

it should have been that after PR, he did not try to do another film.

but somehow he thought he was a film star lol.

even though PR was actually a terrible film in many ways.

but that dream of making it in hollywood was a real problem, and a sign of how he was over reaching. no UTCM, things might have run smoother at that point. but he was too ambitious/a workaholic, so...

heartpeacesheart said:

If I was at a computer right now I'd REALLY be commenting but I know I know, don't sigh too loudly or roll those eyes too hard yet. Guess we have to wait until I get my devices Without giving actual reference to the previous response, I shall go by memory and say one of y'all are confusing Dougie Fresh's style with the Fat Boys and another one of y'all are confusing the elevator rap styles of Dougie Fresh and Blondie. And it's all in the spirit of comic relief so I'm happy with it!

Weeeeeeeellllll since I brought up Blondie, I was comparing Prince's IB style rap with Blondie, not Dougie

prince just got doug e fresh in 1998 as by then he had decided that old school rap was now old enough to fit in with his nostalgia trip, so doug e was then presented as representing hip hop, alongside larry graham and chaka khan. but maybe better they didnt hook up in 1984 when doug was a star. id not have liked to have slick rick and doug on a remix of lets go crazy.

in 1998 -2003, if P was really serious about hiphop or even remotely knowledgable, he woouldve holla'd at people like JayZ or Nas or Camron or Busta Rhymes or Fat Joe or 50Cent.... his attempts at incorporating people llike Chuck D and DougE Fresh well after they were played out, made him look even more out of touch with urban black culture and hiphop

heartpeacesheart said:

I wish I was drinking what you lot are drinking. But it's fine. I'll let ya get back to your greatest ahow on earth and funny girl soundtracks.

what funkbabyandthebabysitters said is true, after the 80s he only 'rescued' or pulled in people whose success was faded. If you understand Prince during this period you know it to be true. Search your feelings...

CAL3 said:

First fallacy in this thread is the title itself. . Prince wasn’t an artist and he didn’t create art. He was a pop musician/performer who created entertainment. That’s not a slight or insult in ANY way, incidentally. . Reframe the whole topic from the correct perspective and it becomes clear that all entertainers who produce a product for mass consumption must inevitably “compromise” (i.e. make adjustments necessary to compete in the ever-changing marketplace) in order to remain successful. . And while Prince was not an artist, that’s not to say he didn’t issue anything with artistic aspirations. It’s certainly worth noting, however, that attempted art such as The Rainbow Children was met with a generally cold shoulder.

uh...wtf is this?

Pretty sure Prince considered himself an artist and referred to himself as such on multiple occasions

Prince didn't just create entertainment anymore than Motown or James Brown just created entertainment.

I guess if you have a strict policy on art, i.e. formal training by the academy and, i dunno, funded by a rich patron, then all of the above would fail.

Prince was certainly an artist. One of the best I've I've ever heard/seen/watched/read actually in his chosen medium of creating music, films and performing live.

The way he referred to his creations seem to support that view.

Not sure why this view might be considered controversial by anyone here but the org is gonna org I guess.

I've read a lot of Hot Takes here but, honestly, I think "The joke's on you! Prince was not an artist!" is one of the hottest.

But...well...maybe it's me and I've been wasting the last 40 years of my life following someone I only thought was an artist this whole entire time.

There's a wider conversation about low art or pop art I guess, I thought it had been settled but some people might still draw lines for whatever reason.

Speaking of studying art at a school, departments sometimes carry names like "visual art" and "performing art."

IMO, the involvement of someone other than the artist is implied by the term "performing art." And all forms of art are often thought about in terms of an audience. Prince expressed that he wanted to get his art out so that people could experience it. He seemed at times distressed when record companies tried to limit the speed for the album mechanism of getting his music to people's ears.

Partly thinking here about how to me, the term entertainer implies an audience other than oneself, though an audience certainly could consist of only oneself. : )

Anyway, I'd say in the case of most or all people who we call artists, their art is in some way shaped by various of their world's practical considerations: financial considerations, audience characteristics, characteristics of any empolyers/patrons/etc., access to material and equipment, etc.

herb4 said:

uh...wtf is this?

herb4 said:

NouveauDance said:

Prince was one of the greatest artists of our time. An American artist from the midwest who perfectly synthesized a bunch of different American popular music and outright valourized midwestern funk.

If Prince wasn't an artist, who is?