During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes

without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.

But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound

and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree

that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.

Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?

Was it being disillusion with his own vision?

Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?

Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

Prince knew that rap scene was coming on strong in the early 90's, so he tried to embrace it. The mistake I think he made was not collaborating with an established rapper like LL Cool J or somebody. It would have made his efforts more legit.

I understand the point you're try to make, but I don't go along with the premise that rap dumbed down his sound and made it safe. I didn't feel that way when I first heard Gett Off or Sexy Motherfucker. They sounded fresh and exciting to me and everyone else I knew back then.

I didn't like the Diamonds and Pearls album, but it wasn't the rap that particularly bothered me. It was the whole approach to the production. But it worked. He pulled in the money he needed. I was disappointed, but plenty of people loved it.

It kind of pisses me off when people say he should have used established rappers. I don't get it. Why would anyone want him to sound like everything else that was out there? People didn't say he should have made his rock sound like Van Halen or his soul like Marvin Gaye. Prince was Prince.

I don't think he dumbed down his music.

IMO, he was too removed from the streets and was ambivalent about rap but knew it was popular.

The Zeitgeist had changed, as it does, and likely messed with his confidence.

wilmer said:

maybe there was even pressure from the label to put out something that re-established him as a commercially successful artist.

.

Prince's contract was up for renewal, he wanted the biggest ever (being deeply jealous of the types Madonna and MJ were getting) and thus he focused on delivering a highly commercial album and promoting it via an actual world tour and interviews etc., showing WBR that he could be worth their while. And then he got a huge contract (and HE inflated it in press releases etc.), and then he got pissed when he returned to business as usual and discovered that half-assing it doesn't result in selling five million copies (which TBH was not that great a result considering the investment), and then started blaming WBR for "not doing their job" and then discovered that he had negociated a mediocre deal (which his entourage had told him but which he had ignored) and then the whole "boohoo I'm a slave" bullshit happened.

thebanishedone said:

During the whole decade of the 80's Prince was redefining musical landscapes

without any fear he was pushing the enveloupe.

But starting with the 1991 Diamonds And Pearls Prince incorporated rap into his sound

and overall dumbed his sound to make it safe.I think we can agree

that Diamonds And Pearls is Prince at his safest ,a far cry from the 1980-1988 daring artist.

Why Prince start with compromises when it comes to his music?

Was it being disillusion with his own vision?

Getting scared from the new sounds coming from the streets that he couldn't relate to?

Financial loss from commercial flops of his projects or something else?

I never really saw Diamonds and Pearls as dumbed down harmonically, just different and incorporating different sounds. Bringing the New Jack Swing into it all

Prince definitely threw a lot of "contractual obligation" quality songs into the '90s and a lot of times seemingly out of spite rather than "this is all I have to say creatively". But I never got the impression like the was dissilusioned, scared, any of those things. Just in a different musical head space and wanting to try out many of the new sonic toys the new decade had to offer

airth said:

joyinrepetition said:

Prince knew that rap scene was coming on strong in the early 90's, so he tried to embrace it. The mistake I think he made was not collaborating with an established rapper like LL Cool J or somebody. It would have made his efforts more legit.

Big Daddy Kane was on a Batdance remix but WB didn't want to release it.

thebanishedone said:

Strive said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

strange album to ask that question. Gett Off wan't reinventing himself and pusing the envelope? Strollin, Willing and Able (I love, love the video version of this), Walk Don't Walk, Money don't matter tonight was following trends?

And 2 albums later Come certainly wasn't following trends.

First(only?) time I ever thought he was trying too hard to manufacture a hit was Rave. From the way I heard it at the time, he had an album, then record label asked for changes. Every change I heard about I htought made the album worse.

alandail said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Margot said:

Is compromise just a different way of saying 'sell out'? I don't know about you guys but I would rather have the delight in buying a new Prince album at the 'wrecka sto' than to see him end up playing a guitar panhandling on the streets of Minneapolis. So what if he compromised. Many artists have done the same thing. IIRC Dolly Parton got a lot of flack for singing 9 to 5 and 'crossing over/selling out' back in the day. The Stones were villified for doing Miss You. The group Kiss was lambasted for releasing Beth which became one of their biggest hits. Taylor Swift was frowned upon when she released her first non-country album. Garth Brooks created an alter ego and released a rock album. Pat Boone released a rock album to revive his career but that bombed. Linda Rondstat released a punk rock album. Artists need to change with the times and stretch their musical abilities or they are left behind and forgotten. Where are all of the 'glam rock' groups today? Artists need to pay bills just like the rest of us do. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Prince evolved.

Next question.

RJOrion said:

the "real" Prince was his first 2 lps...if anything he compromised/sacrificed that sound to become a superstar...then when he got to the mountaintop, he didnt like the view, and spent the rest of his career/life trying to find himself again...WB wanted him to be the overthetop promiscuous gender bending racially ambiguous act he became, and in return they gave him the world...when he realized he was just a pawn in WB's bigger agenda, he realized he was just a slave...it wasnt just about lp releases and creative control over projects like Crystal Ball...the lyrics of "U Know" is telling u how the entertainment industry can enslave you through tactics like blackmail...lyrically and sonically, AOA was the least compromised Prince lp ever... he giving alot of inside info in tbis lp, even if u have to read between some lines at times

Totally agree that even though Lenny and Mo may have been a little out of the mold, the record business was a toxic place for artists. Just like other parts of the entertainment industry, it surely would have LOVED to see a Purple Rain II. You note "WB wanted him to be the overthetop promiscuous gender bending racially ambiguous act he became." If this is what people found in Purple Rain, then surely a record company would want more, more, more of those (and all other) parts of the Purple Rain stuff.

But what about earlier? Though I'm way more ignorant of the community where Prince grew up than I should be, I've tried to learn a little, and I get that "gender bending racially ambiguous act" was NOT associated with what was going on in that community.

As an aside, when I first heard and saw Prince, my mind didn't go anywhere "racially ambiguous." Not at all. That said, I wasn't reading anything music-related at the time, so I was only going by music, album covers, radio, etc. Nothing would have brought that concept to mind in any serious (as in maybe part of a gaining power for larger reach/distribution strategy) form before I did start reading a while later, and that was post-Dirty Mind.

The lyrics of Controversy struck me, rightly or wrongly, as having obvious answers. As in, Prince was black, was attracted to women, and was a believer (in God). Maybe it was wrong to have assumed theses things based on music and visuals, but that's what I did.

Anyway, about Dirty Mind...if that was a gender bending album cover, wasn't that Prince's initiative, and not at all initially a concept of Warners? Never thought what's sometimes called "gender bending" stuff had anything to do with what Warners was pushing. I thought it was Prince's initiative and push. Is that not correct?

Not trying to suggest what Prince's purpose was with any of that stuff.

With the first two albums, I thought that, despite the jaw-dropping autonomy he demanded and received, Prince said that a decent amount of his real self was pushed aside to "a different way." Is that also untrue?

I have the impression that after the Prince album, Warners wasn't expecting or hoping for a Dirty Mind, and that the prospect of Dirty Mind had Warners a little concerned/nervous.

I have the same impression about the time when Warners was introduced to Around the World in a Day.

In both cases, it seemed like Warners was hoping for something closer to what came before (Prince, Purple Rain) than what Prince brought next (Dirty Mind, ATWIAD).

With AOA, would love to read more about what you hear between the lines. Even I (with my lack of cultural, etc. sophistication) thought I heard some "stuff between the lines." It was stuff that IMO was mostly ambiguous and open to multiple interpretations, but if Prince still had me and others wondering at his mystery, I'd venture to guess he'd have been pleased. Do love AOA. To me, it's a wondrous mix of touching, fun, dirty, ethereal, otherworldly, etc. Not to mention the word play that's there from the start with that title. Guessing you're a fan for entirely different characteristics, but glad I've got good taste, whatever the reasons. : )

[Edited 10/18/20 16:42pm]

OperatingThetan said:

SantanaMaitreya said:

Same thing as every other artist really. Money, plain and simple.

It's always a fine line between artistic integrity and economic reality. Most artists who've never "sold out" have never truly been asked to in my experience.

Batman was the first time I got a real whiff of it from Prince and then, D&P, while maybe not a "sell out" was obviously aimed at commercial success.

All artists are forced to compromise their vision at some point.

OperatingThetan said: