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Reply #90 posted 08/27/20 8:53pm

LoveGalore

HamsterHuey said:

The 'new' people moaning about Cosmic Day's ''Tralalala'' made me think how Prince uses lalala a LOT in songs, but The Estate's focus on Susannah Melvoin in their promotional material for Forever In My Life made me think; are the ''ladadadadada's'' in Forever linked to the ''oh me la di da's'' on Wally? hmmm



Well in the podcast they (W&L) talk about influencing prince with childlike motifs and la da das.
[Edited 8/27/20 20:54pm]
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Reply #91 posted 08/27/20 9:16pm

JoeyCococo

I think it's just Michael Howe making up shit as it comes, trying to excite hardcore fans (and achieving the exact opposite effect) by using whichever knowledge he has of bootlegs and Prince history to make it sound more appealing. Like calling Rebirth "original outro" just to make a point of the fact that this is not the one we have on bootlegs, and this one probably because of the story revealed by Per Nilsen (thru Susan) about how the background vocals were originally supposed to be in synch, etc.

To be honest it sounds very amateurish to me, precisely like bootleg titles. As if any hardcore fan would think "naw, I'm not gonna buy this", then think "oh, no, wait, it's the original outro version of ROTF, dude, I didn't know, take my 200 bucks then!!". Like, seriously Michael? rolleyes

.

On the other hand the sensible thing to do with P&AM83 would have been to title it Intimate Moments in homage to the old bootleg but it didn't appear to have crossed their mind. I mean seriously, the day they finally release Small Club, would you like them to title it "Live at The Hague, August 19, 1988"? Fuck it, it's the legendary Small Club, call it that way!!

I will never understand the negative comments on Mike Howe. This guy is sitting listening to all this and finds a fantastic gem and there are complaints about what it's been titled? I will bet, this is what was written on the tape...I doubt highly Mike named it 'early vocal run through'...

Come on, give the guy a break. The Super Deluxe of 1999 was INCREDIBLE and this one is shaping up to be better.

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Reply #92 posted 08/27/20 9:17pm

mediumdry

Can't wait for the next podcasts. Somehow everything seems better than the 1999 deluxe project. I'm still stunned by this version of Forever. It's like a totally new song, even though the instrumentation that was ultimately used is in this version too. (different effects/reverbs though)

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #93 posted 08/27/20 11:28pm

Xpertlover

avatar

deebee said:

The sort of nugget that gives a fascinating insight into the creative process. The song starts life as this cute, twangy little number, in which a somewhat busy track rather crowds out the interesting juxtaposition of the drum machine and the acoustic guitar during the song section; and the instrumentation is warmer, but less distinctive, and more conventional - dare I say, a tad corny? I wondered if his blithe and bluesy way of hitting the 'la-da-da' bits was him straining to avoid it all getting too saccharine. Still, it's packed with feel in the latter half, thanks to the gorgeous acoustic guitar work.

Then, somewhere along the way, he revisits it, pares it right down, leaving with just the sparse rhythm track offset against a beautifully sincere, rich and heartfelt vocal. I wonder whether that decision came before the vocal session that birthed the off-kilter backgrounds, or if the 'happy accident' with the tape was the butterfly that flapped its wings to initiate a reworking of the whole track. It's remarkable how he goes all-in with the new feel, anyway, stripping out all but the coolly delivered under-layers of the vocal arrangements and pushing these up in the mix, to add these odd textures in the space between the rhythm and the words. Then the acoustic guitar, so integral to the original track, is all but silenced, and just used sparely in the coda. It's so distinctive - and what extraordinary discipline and artistic assuredness to realise it.

And, to give the whole story a happy ending, the warmer and more earthy blues/gospel feel finds a new home in the live version, where the song gets transformed from an intimate proposal to something more outgoing and impassioned, with the whole choir of kooks belting it out in harmony.

I tell you, you don't get that GOAT mantle easily. heart

yeahthat

"How embarrasing to be human!"
- Kurt Vonnegut, 'Hocus Pocus'
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Reply #94 posted 08/28/20 12:22am

JorisE73

As much as I love the original, this one is awesome!
Great to finally hear how the back vocals should be mixed with the lead vocals thumbs up!

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Reply #95 posted 08/28/20 1:22am

TraSoul82

LoveGalore said:

HamsterHuey said:

The 'new' people moaning about Cosmic Day's ''Tralalala'' made me think how Prince uses lalala a LOT in songs, but The Estate's focus on Susannah Melvoin in their promotional material for Forever In My Life made me think; are the ''ladadadadada's'' in Forever linked to the ''oh me la di da's'' on Wally? hmmm



Well in the podcast they (W&L) talk about influencing prince with childlike motifs and la da das.
[Edited 8/27/20 20:54pm]


Don't talk if it's against the rules,
Just walk away and be a fool.
That's what they want you to do...
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Reply #96 posted 08/28/20 1:54am

Nightcrawler

Everything is there and yet it sounds like a different song. Although I much prefer the version on SOTT, this is super interesting and amazing.
Just like the sun, the rainbow children rise...
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Reply #97 posted 08/28/20 3:05am

databank

avatar

JoeyCococo said:



I think it's just Michael Howe making up shit as it comes, trying to excite hardcore fans (and achieving the exact opposite effect) by using whichever knowledge he has of bootlegs and Prince history to make it sound more appealing. Like calling Rebirth "original outro" just to make a point of the fact that this is not the one we have on bootlegs, and this one probably because of the story revealed by Per Nilsen (thru Susan) about how the background vocals were originally supposed to be in synch, etc.


To be honest it sounds very amateurish to me, precisely like bootleg titles. As if any hardcore fan would think "naw, I'm not gonna buy this", then think "oh, no, wait, it's the original outro version of ROTF, dude, I didn't know, take my 200 bucks then!!". Like, seriously Michael? rolleyes


.


On the other hand the sensible thing to do with P&AM83 would have been to title it Intimate Moments in homage to the old bootleg but it didn't appear to have crossed their mind. I mean seriously, the day they finally release Small Club, would you like them to title it "Live at The Hague, August 19, 1988"? Fuck it, it's the legendary Small Club, call it that way!!





I will never understand the negative comments on Mike Howe. This guy is sitting listening to all this and finds a fantastic gem and there are complaints about what it's been titled? I will bet, this is what was written on the tape...I doubt highly Mike named it 'early vocal run through'...



Come on, give the guy a break. The Super Deluxe of 1999 was INCREDIBLE and this one is shaping up to be better.


Bro have you been living under a rock? Of course the titles don't matter. You wanna talk about all the other problems? We're giving Mke shit because Mike fucked up too many times already.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #98 posted 08/28/20 3:31am

Marco81

databank said:

JoeyCococo said:

I will never understand the negative comments on Mike Howe. This guy is sitting listening to all this and finds a fantastic gem and there are complaints about what it's been titled? I will bet, this is what was written on the tape...I doubt highly Mike named it 'early vocal run through'...

Come on, give the guy a break. The Super Deluxe of 1999 was INCREDIBLE and this one is shaping up to be better.

Bro have you been living under a rock? Of course the titles don't matter. You wanna talk about all the other problems? We're giving Mke shit because Mike fucked up too many times already.

Your obsession with Michael Howe, Niko Bolas and Frankenstein mixes is getting more and more amusing by the day.

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Reply #99 posted 08/28/20 4:27am

glamlife2

Love hearing this version. Like most folks, I still prefer the album version. But the second half is so awesome that I will Frankenstein the hell out of this and make a fake 12" mix using the album version... there's a really obvious point where the two could be joined together. I don't care if it's sacrelige I'll just enjoy it myself. wink

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Reply #100 posted 08/28/20 4:59am

deebee

avatar

glamlife2 said:

Love hearing this version. Like most folks, I still prefer the album version. But the second half is so awesome that I will Frankenstein the hell out of this and make a fake 12" mix using the album version... there's a really obvious point where the two could be joined together. I don't care if it's sacrelige I'll just enjoy it myself. wink

Tricky, you've just given me a brilliant idea!

(Well, ok, it's the same idea, but still......) biggrin

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #101 posted 08/28/20 5:31am

JoeyCococo

databank said:

JoeyCococo said:

I will never understand the negative comments on Mike Howe. This guy is sitting listening to all this and finds a fantastic gem and there are complaints about what it's been titled? I will bet, this is what was written on the tape...I doubt highly Mike named it 'early vocal run through'...

Come on, give the guy a break. The Super Deluxe of 1999 was INCREDIBLE and this one is shaping up to be better.

Bro have you been living under a rock? Of course the titles don't matter. You wanna talk about all the other problems? We're giving Mke shit because Mike fucked up too many times already.

No need to get all aggressive...I agree, some releases have been...questionable. I never understood leading with Piano and Mic 1983. I love it and it is interesting but was not a good 'lead' release. The Purple Rain Deluxe was in hindsight, not good. I love the vault stuff we got....but like many, I suspect it was cassette sourced...not master tape. The sound on a lot of it is bad especially when compared to 1999 (and now SOTT) vault tracks. However, I don't think the PR Deluxe was on Mike's watch. I might be wrong. If it is, I'm guessing he did not have enough time to find the masters at the point of PR Deluxe's release.

Overall, I'm loving what he is finding. Sure, there is other stuff and other ways to group the material but I'm liking the current format of a remaster, vault discs, a live audio and video. I would suggest to the estate that they move a bit faster as 1 a year is going to take decades to get through all his material.

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Reply #102 posted 08/28/20 6:12am

Milty2

ON IG yesterday, Susannah said that she remembers Prince letting her hear this song for the first time. I wonder if it was this version or the released version.

"He had been up all night and he came upstairs. It was like 7:00 in the morning and he grabbed my hand and said ‘follow me’, and so I followed him downstairs," Susannah recalls. "The sun was coming through the stained glass windows and he pressed play, and that song came on and I looked at him and I got teary-eyed. And that was it. He didn’t have to say anything."

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Reply #103 posted 08/28/20 7:13am

controversy99

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This is AWESOME! I like how the foundation of the live version comes out toward the end. And the additional instrumentation and different vocal delivery in the main part of the song give it a different kind of tenderness than the album version. The album version is one of my favorites on SotT, and it's hard for me to know how I would've reacted to this at the time if it was on the album instead. I wonder if this could make the radio today, with a little bit of promotion. I heard Manic Monday on the radio earlier this year, and I can imagine this making it as well.

"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
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Reply #104 posted 08/28/20 7:50am

TKO

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I like it better than official

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Reply #105 posted 08/28/20 7:58am

rebelenterpris
e

I had to come back for this one...Damn. When it hits 3:04, it turns into the Funkiest shit in the world. Loving it.
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Reply #106 posted 08/28/20 8:14am

RJOrion

rebelenterprise said:

I had to come back for this one...Damn. When it hits 3:04, it turns into the Funkiest shit in the world. Loving it.

word?...i gave up on it way too early then...i didnt hear any funk....im gonna have to be more patient next time i listen to it

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Reply #107 posted 08/28/20 8:23am

rebelenterpris
e

RJOrion said:



rebelenterprise said:


I had to come back for this one...Damn. When it hits 3:04, it turns into the Funkiest shit in the world. Loving it.




word?...i gave up on it way too early then...i didnt hear any funk....im gonna have to be more patient next time i listen to it



Definitely...You gotta let it ride out! It's what I always imagined happened when the original LP version faded out. Just got Funkier by the minute. 3 minutes of it to be exact.
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Reply #108 posted 08/28/20 9:56am

GirlBrother

avatar

This needs radio airplay. It needs to chart.

It's the first of the previews that I'm going to purchase.

It's amazing. It's very nearly "Islands In The Stream" by Kenny & Dolly. I'm obsessed with this version.
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Reply #109 posted 08/28/20 11:13am

JoeyCococo

someone mentioned this not being a Nik Bolas mix...I would say, it's not a Prince mix! It sounds too damn good!

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Reply #110 posted 08/28/20 11:17am

GirlBrother

avatar

misiu said:

...sounds a lot like everyday people ... still very nice...



I kind of hear the chant from Sing A Simple Song when he sings, "forrrrr ever in my life" in the extended portion.
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Reply #111 posted 08/28/20 11:38am

lavendardrumma
chine

glamlife2 said:

But the second half is so awesome that I will Frankenstein the hell out of this and make a fake 12" mix using the album version... there's a really obvious point where the two could be joined together. I don't care if it's sacrelige I'll just enjoy it myself. wink

The album version also has that guitar in the fade out that makes me wonder if Prince didn't try it himself and it evolved that way.
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Reply #112 posted 08/28/20 12:01pm

GirlBrother

avatar

lavendardrummachine said:

glamlife2 said:

But the second half is so awesome that I will Frankenstein the hell out of this and make a fake 12" mix using the album version... there's a really obvious point where the two could be joined together. I don't care if it's sacrelige I'll just enjoy it myself. wink



The album version also has that guitar in the fade out that makes me wonder if Prince didn't try it himself and it evolved that way.


It will be so easy to create an extended mix from the two versions.

You only really need to put the "bum bum bum-bum" drum machine beat, on a loop, under the last part of this demo - then splice into the album version.

It's so obviously possible.
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Reply #113 posted 08/28/20 12:11pm

lavendardrumma
chine

Milty2 said:

ON IG yesterday, Susannah said that she remembers Prince letting her hear this song for the first time. I wonder if it was this version or the released version.

"He had been up all night and he came upstairs. It was like 7:00 in the morning and he grabbed my hand and said ‘follow me’, and so I followed him downstairs," Susannah recalls. "The sun was coming through the stained glass windows and he pressed play, and that song came on and I looked at him and I got teary-eyed. And that was it. He didn’t have to say anything."


Thank you for posting that...

I haven't seen her give that story before (maybe I just missed it), but it kills me to think that had they not released this version she might have taken that intimate story to her grave and we might never have known that backstory we all kinda assumed. Could also be why they break up when the vows don't stick anyway and how we end up with the somber drum machine dirge version.

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Reply #114 posted 08/28/20 1:11pm

lavendardrumma
chine

GirlBrother said:

lavendardrummachine said:

The album version also has that guitar in the fade out that makes me wonder if Prince didn't try it himself and it evolved that way.
It will be so easy to create an extended mix from the two versions. You only really need to put the "bum bum bum-bum" drum machine beat, on a loop, under the last part of this demo - then splice into the album version. It's so obviously possible.


Yeah but try it with the drum machine at the top too.

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Reply #115 posted 08/28/20 1:21pm

slyjackson

I wish he had gone full gospel in this version.

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Reply #116 posted 08/28/20 1:27pm

Prog5000

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A really decent take.
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Reply #117 posted 08/28/20 2:51pm

Rimshottbob

I listened to the early take of I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man when it was released, but I haven't listened to anything else since.... not really interested at the moment and haven't listened to any Prince in months.... will hear it all when I have the vinyl in my hands. I can wait.

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Reply #118 posted 08/28/20 3:20pm

v10letblues

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Very pretty. Nice to have to play for certain moods. Towards the end it has a lot of the elements that ended up on the concert film version. The version on the SOTT concert film is amazing. My all time favorite.

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Reply #119 posted 08/28/20 10:41pm

Superstition

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This isn’t a bad song in itself, but the opening “la da da” vocals caught me off guard!

It gets better as it goes on. The finished version has a more industrial sound, and is one of my favorite and most played tracks of any artist in my library.

This could have easily went several different routes sound-wise. It borders on country-tinged.

I’m loving these releases.
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