callimnate said:

There needs to be a rule on this forum where the OP needs to state how old they are and what their favourite album is, before they post a ridculous comment like that.

Yes, everyone has their own opinions, but if the OP stated that they are in their 30's and their favourite album was Rave, then I'd totally get it, and would jump to the next topic without wasting any more time on it.

but they didn't though (?)

OK, I'll go first. I'm 53 and my favorite Prince album is 1999, followed by SoTT and then Exodus.

Is my opinion OK to have now or...?

Now you go and tell us what you like.

Also, I don't thinks it's fair or even necessary for a fan of Prince music (or ANY MUSIC for that matter) to have to "weigh in" with their credentials first, let alone having a RULE, and I'm not sure where you're coming from with that. It has a whiff of elitism and a "No True Fan would ever x, y, z" to it and while I suppose I could be reading you wrong, you come off a tad grouchy here though to my eyes.

I'm not planning on qualifying every thread I post with "HI, my name is Herb4. I am 53 years old, white, male, divorced, father of one and enjoy long walks on the beach, 70's Stevie Wonder, Paul's Boutique and shooting pool. I also own several Prince bootlegs" just so someone will deign to read my posts or take them seriously.

bonatoc said:

The fact that the OP can count « the truly great songs » from The Vault on one hand qualifies him as a troll. No need to see his credentials.

Smokey80 said:

databank said:

Quitting is the word indeed

I believe the problem with the people saying the vault material is disappointing is exactly the same problem as with those people who kept coming here and bitching about every new Prince release since the Org opened in 1998. They expect the new music to do to them what PR or SOTT did to them when they were 15 and Prince's music radically changed their life. Ain't gonna happen.

As someone who consistantly enjoyed Prince's new music over the years, I enjoy vault releases the same way. It's great to have new material, there are gems on every new release and anyone who says the contrary is a fool. But no one's ever gonna be 15 again...

It's not just that.... there is something a little hollow about posthumous releases in general. I sorely miss and feel the absence of Prince's touch on these releases. It's all just a collection of songs, some from the same era, some not. But try as I may, I can not bring myself to muster up the same enthusiasm for these Special Deluxe Editions as I could for an actual new Prince album, even when he was going through a creative lull, there was always the anticipation/hope that he would bounce back, which he usually did, even if it was just the odd song here and there.

That's exactly how I feel, and did throughout his career Smokey 80. It's just about opinions and what you like, and what you don't. I stuck with Prince til the end regarding his recorded material, much of which was ok. but a lot of which I wasn't fussed on. Regarding the releases, I wish they would get someone who was involved in someway, to put a collection of songs together in a structured album, rather than as Smokey put it, just a collection of songs bolted on to an album I already have, and have no intention of buying again

jdcxc said:

bonatoc said:

First, that's some serious bullshit. The "Thriller" outtakes are barely a dozen, and they all are shitty songs, inaudible eighties crap. Same goes for a ton of "expanded" editions of major artists.

Take U2's Achtung Baby, you would assume that a fine album like this would have fantastic outtakes, but no, they're sketches for what would become released songs.

Prince's outtakes are way, way more creative. Does The Vault contain some meh songs and failed experiments? Sure, but here's the catch: very, very few are actually boring, or without any kind of interest: There's a reason why Prince is a musicians' musician.
An average composition by Prince is a wet dream for every other pop song writer.

Penniman was full of bullshit on that quote.
"Whole lot of nothing"? He musta confused with his own career, in limbo for thirty years and counting.

You naysayers sound so self-entitled.
You're still playing "If I was Prince, I would have done it this way", when none of you bozos can pick an instrument or worked in the industry.

When are you going to grow up and letitgo?
The Man didn't owe you squat, never did,
and obviously never will. Give it up already, damn.

[Edited 7/12/20 17:11pm]

Well Put! Their entitlement screams out. If the world only had Prince’s vault material from the beginning, he would still b a creative artist. Why wud someone dismiss his work like that...sounds like a tabloid.

Just a quick reply, Prince was my favorite artist, I have pretty much everything he ever put out, saw him numerous times. I bought the next album, after not really liking the previous one. hoping that the next one would be more to my liking. Ask anyone who knows me, I was obsessed, my wife, god love her, knows as many prince lyrics as me, not really being a fan. I was at the record fares on a Saturday morning, the local market stalls. I didn't go to the Blenheim palace concert either, when cancelled. I subscribed to the Controversy magazine. I'll be going to The" New purple celebration " ( the best, and calling them a tribute act is a mistake) concert in Cardiff next year, as I have done for the previous 3 years. I'm not, by anyway dismissing the vault material, and other than playing a brass instrument as a kid, and learning to play the guitar over the last few years, am not very musical. But opinions are that, and those are my honest ones, it's what makes the world go around. Tabloid, yea right..........

bonatoc said:

The fact that the OP can count « the truly great songs » from The Vault on one hand qualifies him as a troll. No need to see his credentials.

Fair enough.

bonatoc said:

callimnate said:

There needs to be a rule on this forum where the OP needs to state how old they are and what their favourite album is, before they post a ridculous comment like that.

Yes, everyone has their own opinions, but if the OP stated that they are in their 30's and their favourite album was Rave, then I'd totally get it, and would jump to the next topic without wasting any more time on it.

I am in my 30s and my favourite album is Rave. I ain't even joking.

Not sure why that invalidates my opinion though?

Smokey80 said:

callimnate said:

There needs to be a rule on this forum where the OP needs to state how old they are and what their favourite album is, before they post a ridculous comment like that.

Yes, everyone has their own opinions, but if the OP stated that they are in their 30's and their favourite album was Rave, then I'd totally get it, and would jump to the next topic without wasting any more time on it.

I am in my 30s and my favourite album is Rave. I ain't even joking.

Not sure why that invalidates my opinion though?

https://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews-nme-1626-334116

fortuneandserendipity said:

Smokey80 said:

I am in my 30s and my favourite album is Rave. I ain't even joking.

Not sure why that invalidates my opinion though?

https://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews-nme-1626-334116

So because some two-bit, formerly relevant, now defunct music rag said it's no good, that's gospel, is it?

Smokey80 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

https://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews-nme-1626-334116

So because some two-bit, formerly relevant, now defunct music rag said it's no good, that's gospel, is it?

Well, at some point, vox populi my friend.
"Rave" is universally considered a low point.

While this in no way prevents you from considering it his best,
it explains how much your opinion is going against the grain, that's all.

It's kinda logical that if you like Rave's squeaky clean production, its FM calibrated compositions, you'll have a hard time appreciate the qualities of the live, raw sessions that constitute most of The Vault, or at least its most widely appreciated morsels.

Praising "Rave" seems like you love Prince smelling like soap,
while most of us are craving for his funky armpits.

It's OK to like a record.

God damn, people.

herb4 said:

49

Favorite album, between Parade and Lovesexy, oh go on then, Parade. The first album I owned by him, bought from the britania music club, if anyone can remember that. Girls and boys was the one that grabbed me.

Mikado said:

bonatoc said:

The fact that the OP can count « the truly great songs » from The Vault on one hand qualifies him as a troll. No need to see his credentials.

You seem really personally hurt by this thread.

I'm personally hurt by one-liner morons.
Every minute of every hour.

The world is a constant torture to me.
Ow Lawd, will it ever end?

The more I read this thread title,
the more I feel like kickin' butts.


It's the use of "legendary".
You can feel the disappointment.
"Oh, this is it?"


And the "Prince's".
It screams dude just got there
and probably spent two evenings
zapping through songs, before he could finally quench
his thirst of opening a thread and see who's up for a fight.


Am I right, Smokey and eighty mirrors?


"Prince's legendary vault".
As if we were on some turbine spare parts forum.
And then comes the lawyer/accountant part (how much? Did U give?).

"Case", followed by "quantity" and "quality".
Boy, someone needs maximum return on his time investment.


Hey, Cough-Cough, you really got the wrong forum,
it's not "Vault" as in "bank vault".

Here comes the subtitle y'all:
"Hey, I've wasted my time listening to this shit,
I want a refund!".



Forget "Rave", Fumes, let's give your impressionable ears a pass.
All things come in time to those willing to see beyond the gloss.
May it be the glass, Alice.

I'm afraid smoke got in your big ol' ears,
Young Padawan (you could be eighty, still registers).


Unless you guess the precise reason Prince gave up millions (quantity)
over freedom (quality), at his own expense — or on his own expenses if you will,
numbers seem to be of great matter here — you've got a long way 2 go.
But if figures: your favorite joint is Skipper forcing himself out of depression
by listening to the very last time to some corporation boss (with a pedigree).
There's a reason why none of "Rave"’s songs endured in Prince's set lists.


So if by any chance one of these months you spend more than a few hours skipping through whatever shit source you got your hands on, and by that I mean when you'll have spent years listening to Prince's musicality in every color on a high end system, the one that can distinguish Pink from Fuchsia, hey, come back around, I think most of us will agree that everyone's welcome aboard, the minute they know their shit a bit.

And "listening" means more than once or twice, headphones on and no distractions.
Yeah, right? "Who's got the time".
My point exactly, Clouds.

We did. Some of us were lucky that way.
Years of listening mostly to Prince, and I confess,
it's probably more years than what you think we had.
There's a few old timers round this parts
who can find their way into the purple swamps, some blindfolded.

You wouldn't stand still.
You ain't got the time.


So I guess you'll have to take it first,
before you come around with some firm intent to make us wiser.


Because your preposterous opening, which I rarely experienced on the org,
and I've been around for a while, would have us believe
that you know every page of Skipper's many sonic notebooks by heart.

Otherwise, on what grounds your opinion stands?
Oh, that's right, you didn't have the time to explain,
A small inflammatory paragraph and then you're done,
you're a busy man, banking and lawying and
counting the days it would really take.

bonatoc said:

The more I read this thread title,
the more I feel like kickin' butts.


It's the use of "legendary".
You can feel the disappointment.
"Oh, this is it?"


And the "Prince's".
It screams dude just got there
and probably spent two evenings
zapping through songs, before he could finally quench
his thirst of opening a thread and see who's up for a fight.


Am I right, Smokey and eighty mirrors?


"Prince's legendary vault".
As if we were on some turbine spare parts forum.
And then comes the lawyer/accountant part (how much? Did U give?).

"Case", followed by "quantity" and "quality".
Boy, someone needs maximum return on his time investment.


Hey, Cough-Cough, you really got the wrong forum,
it's not "Vault" as in "bank vault".

Here comes the subtitle y'all:
"Hey, I've wasted my time listening to this shit,
I want a refund!".



Forget "Rave", Fumes, let's give your impressionable ears a pass.
All things come in time to those willing to see beyond the gloss.
May it be the glass, Alice.

I'm afraid smoke got in your big ol' ears,
Young Padawan (you could be eighty, still registers).


Unless you guess the precise reason Prince gave up millions (quantity)
over freedom (quality), at his own expense — or on his own expenses if you will,
numbers seem to be of great matter here — you've got a long way 2 go.
But if figures: your favorite joint is Skipper forcing himself out of depression
by listening to the very last time to some corporation boss (with a pedigree).
There's a reason why none of "Rave"’s songs endured in Prince's set lists.


So if by any chance one of these months you spend more than a few hours skipping through whatever shit source you got your hands on, and by that I mean when you'll have spent years listening to Prince's musicality in every color on a high end system, the one that can distinguish Pink from Fuchsia, hey, come back around, I think most of us will agree that everyone's welcome aboard, the minute they know their shit a bit.

And "listening" means more than once or twice, headphones on and no distractions.
Yeah, right? "Who's got the time".
My point exactly, Clouds.

We did. Some of us were lucky that way.
Years of listening mostly to Prince, and I confess,
it's probably more years than what you think we had.
There's a few old timers round this parts
who can find their way into the purple swamps, some blindfolded.

You wouldn't stand still.
You ain't got the time.


So I guess you'll have to take it first,
before you come around with some firm intent to make us wiser.


Because your preposterous opening, which I rarely experienced on the org,
and I've been around for a while, would have us believe
that you know every page of Skipper's many sonic notebooks by heart.

Otherwise, on what grounds your opinion stands?
Oh, that's right, you didn't have the time to explain,
A small inflammatory paragraph and then you're done,
you're a busy man, banking and lawying and
counting the days it would really take.

bonatoc said:

The more I read this thread title,
the more I feel like kickin' butts.


It's the use of "legendary".
You can feel the disappointment.
"Oh, this is it?"


And the "Prince's".
It screams dude just got there
and probably spent two evenings
zapping through songs, before he could finally quench
his thirst of opening a thread and see who's up for a fight.


Am I right, Smokey and eighty mirrors?


"Prince's legendary vault".
As if we were on some turbine spare parts forum.
And then comes the lawyer/accountant part (how much? Did U give?).

"Case", followed by "quantity" and "quality".
Boy, someone needs maximum return on his time investment.


Hey, Cough-Cough, you really got the wrong forum,
it's not "Vault" as in "bank vault".

Here comes the subtitle y'all:
"Hey, I've wasted my time listening to this shit,
I want a refund!".



Forget "Rave", Fumes, let's give your impressionable ears a pass.
All things come in time to those willing to see beyond the gloss.
May it be the glass, Alice.

I'm afraid smoke got in your big ol' ears,
Young Padawan (you could be eighty, still registers).


Unless you guess the precise reason Prince gave up millions (quantity)
over freedom (quality), at his own expense — or on his own expenses if you will,
numbers seem to be of great matter here — you've got a long way 2 go.
But if figures: your favorite joint is Skipper forcing himself out of depression
by listening to the very last time to some corporation boss (with a pedigree).
There's a reason why none of "Rave"’s songs endured in Prince's set lists.


So if by any chance one of these months you spend more than a few hours skipping through whatever shit source you got your hands on, and by that I mean when you'll have spent years listening to Prince's musicality in every color on a high end system, the one that can distinguish Pink from Fuchsia, hey, come back around, I think most of us will agree that everyone's welcome aboard, the minute they know their shit a bit.

And "listening" means more than once or twice, headphones on and no distractions.
Yeah, right? "Who's got the time".
My point exactly, Clouds.

We did. Some of us were lucky that way.
Years of listening mostly to Prince, and I confess,
it's probably more years than what you think we had.
There's a few old timers round this parts
who can find their way into the purple swamps, some blindfolded.

You wouldn't stand still.
You ain't got the time.


So I guess you'll have to take it first,
before you come around with some firm intent to make us wiser.


Because your preposterous opening, which I rarely experienced on the org,
and I've been around for a while, would have us believe
that you know every page of Skipper's many sonic notebooks by heart.

Otherwise, on what grounds your opinion stands?
Oh, that's right, you didn't have the time to explain,
A small inflammatory paragraph and then you're done,
you're a busy man, banking and lawying and
counting the days it would really take.

Did you take your meds?

Most of the anti-Rave crowd is pro-Gold Experience anyway so...

Smokey80 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

https://www.nme.com/reviews/reviews-nme-1626-334116

So because some two-bit, formerly relevant, now defunct music rag said it's no good, that's gospel, is it?

And I actually read that review in the magazine on the day it came out. It kind of hurt that one of my artistic heroes was being used to disparage another my artistic heroes. But I'm pretty sure this was not a one star review at the time - I'll have to dig out the mag when I'm eventually back in my home country, but I think it may have been 4/10. Can anyone corroborate that memory.

Anyhow, the album got a lot of repeat listening from me. There's something about it that doesn't really hold together, but there's plenty of good, and occasionally excellent, stuff in there.

For balance -

https://www.classicpopmag...nd%20play.

JorisE73 said:

databank said:

Certainly the fact that we have nearly 1000 unreleased original songs and alternate versions on bootlegs impacts our enthusiasm, not to mention the incredible amount of material Prince officially released in his lifetime. Just imagine if there had never been any bootleg, if all that stuff was completely new to us. Our perception of these collections would probably be very different. But how many songs have been released since Prince passed that were entirely unknown to us, in any version? 7 or 8, maybe? How many are there among the 45 SOTT outtakes? Maybe 3 or 4?

.

As one orger once said, it's unlikely there is anything in the vault that we haven't heard that's going to dramatically change our (or the world's) perception of Prince's music. Not after 42 years and thousands of songs released legally or otherwise. It's OK, we were there back then, Prince blew our minds back then.

.

Ironically, the most interesting unreleased material compilations won't probably be any covering Prince's "golden" years. It will probably be those featuring post 1995 material, for the simple reason that we haven't heard any of it. Again, there's probably nothing there that's going to be totally unexpected. But at least we may get whole CD's filled with songs we have never heard.

.

In the end, I'm always happy to get new material. Certainly I don't listen to these compilations of outtakes as much and as passionately as I would have 25 years ago, but it's still very cool to explore the corners of P's creativity.

.

Just don't expect anything extrardinary beyond the occasional entirely new song you'll fall in love with (or the outtake you'll rediscover thanks to improved sound quality). IDK if it's a case of quality over quantity. It's more a case of where your heart is

.

[Edited 7/8/20 20:04pm]

I would even say that when we old timers heard these boots when it mattered (in the late 80's and 90's when his career started to fade in the public perception after Batman) it kept his career going pretty strong. I really believe if it weren't for the boots and the stories and myths/legends of his vaults back then he would have a much smaller fan base then he has.

I agree so much with you two guys.
I really believe that the bootlegs helped him a lot in our perception and the myth that was surrounding him. I still remember looking at him during a 1993 aftershow and i was thinking : this man has all these tunes in him that i heard on bootleg that i'm fond of and he maybe he will never ever play a note of it!
About the post 1995 material, i really want to hear it and discover things like the Deliverance EP. And i really want The Divine, Xenophobia studio version, Prince & The Band etc. Well, i think he can still surprised me...

leecaldon said:

Smokey80 said:

So because some two-bit, formerly relevant, now defunct music rag said it's no good, that's gospel, is it?

And I actually read that review in the magazine on the day it came out. It kind of hurt that one of my artistic heroes was being used to disparage another my artistic heroes. But I'm pretty sure this was not a one star review at the time - I'll have to dig out the mag when I'm eventually back in my home country, but I think it may have been 4/10. Can anyone corroborate that memory.

Anyhow, the album got a lot of repeat listening from me. There's something about it that doesn't really hold together, but there's plenty of good, and occasionally excellent, stuff in there.

For balance -

https://www.classicpopmag...nd%20play.

You're absolutely right. They did review it 4/10 when it came out and then downgraded it on rereview. Bear in mind, they also reviewed a Hootie and the Blowfish album back in late 90s and promptly gave it 0/10.

fortuneandserendipity said:

leecaldon said:

And I actually read that review in the magazine on the day it came out. It kind of hurt that one of my artistic heroes was being used to disparage another my artistic heroes. But I'm pretty sure this was not a one star review at the time - I'll have to dig out the mag when I'm eventually back in my home country, but I think it may have been 4/10. Can anyone corroborate that memory.

Anyhow, the album got a lot of repeat listening from me. There's something about it that doesn't really hold together, but there's plenty of good, and occasionally excellent, stuff in there.

For balance -

https://www.classicpopmag...nd%20play.

You're absolutely right. They did review it 4/10 when it came out and then downgraded it on rereview. Bear in mind, they also reviewed a Hootie and the Blowfish album back in late 90s and promptly gave it 0/10.

Glad my memory wasn't failing me!