CAL3 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

. YES! A million times, YES! So glad to see a post like this. . The “vault” material — ALL of which is, by definition, UNFINISHED work due to the very nature of its unreleased status — has had (and will continue to have) a DIMINISHING effect on the carefully-crafted official canon of work Prince finished during his lifetime. . The tomb-raiders who have curated this mess of largely uninspired leftovers and works-in-progress are actively diluting the potency of Prince’s officially-released legacy. And the vultures swooping in to pick the leftovers apart only contribute to the indecency. . “Dig U Better Dead,” indeed. A mantra for the entitled, forever-carping fanbase, their appetite for every single scrap of unfinished music — every ultimately UNSANCTIONED (by the creator of the work, obviously) — impossible to satiate. Prince’s untimely passing and the subsequent opening of the floodgates — through which every boring, subpar recording (intermittently interesting, yes, though ALWAYS unfinished) could now flow - provided the “gift” that so many fans craved during Prince’s lifetime. Not that hours of “vault” material that has so far emerged been anywhere near enough to calm the vultures’ feeding frenzy. .

Yeah, this is total nonsense.

KoolEaze said:

CAL3 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

. YES! A million times, YES! So glad to see a post like this. . The “vault” material — ALL of which is, by definition, UNFINISHED work due to the very nature of its unreleased status — has had (and will continue to have) a DIMINISHING effect on the carefully-crafted official canon of work Prince finished during his lifetime. . The tomb-raiders who have curated this mess of largely uninspired leftovers and works-in-progress are actively diluting the potency of Prince’s officially-released legacy. And the vultures swooping in to pick the leftovers apart only contribute to the indecency. . “Dig U Better Dead,” indeed. A mantra for the entitled, forever-carping fanbase, their appetite for every single scrap of unfinished music — every ultimately UNSANCTIONED (by the creator of the work, obviously) — impossible to satiate. Prince’s untimely passing and the subsequent opening of the floodgates — through which every boring, subpar recording (intermittently interesting, yes, though ALWAYS unfinished) could now flow - provided the “gift” that so many fans craved during Prince’s lifetime. Not that hours of “vault” material that has so far emerged been anywhere near enough to calm the vultures’ feeding frenzy. .

This is a bit hyperbolic. Ultimately deluxe editions with demos, alternate songs, songs that didn't make the initial album sequencing, etc. from any famous artist ever is a normal thing. And Prince seemed to not mind that the Vault material would come out someday, so calling the Estate "tomb raiders" for giving fans what they want, is a bit odd to me with all due respect

CAL3 said:

Smokey80 said:

I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with all these posthumous releases. Yes, it's incredible how prolific he was, but honestly speaking, how many unreleased songs of his are really as great as the ones he put out? Not that many. We all have tons of them but I can count on one hand the ones that are truly great.

It all looks very impressive, elaborate boxsets with multiple discs of outtakes etc, but if the 1999 one is anything to go by, he definitely kept the cream of the crop for the albums themselves and there is a lot of mediocrity in his unreleased work. It feels a little quantity over quality with Prince's vault music, which is not too surprising, he was only human after all. One man can only contain so many inspired ideas.

. YES! A million times, YES! So glad to see a post like this. . The “vault” material — ALL of which is, by definition, UNFINISHED work due to the very nature of its unreleased status — has had (and will continue to have) a DIMINISHING effect on the carefully-crafted official canon of work Prince finished during his lifetime. . The tomb-raiders who have curated this mess of largely uninspired leftovers and works-in-progress are actively diluting the potency of Prince’s officially-released legacy. And the vultures swooping in to pick the leftovers apart only contribute to the indecency. . “Dig U Better Dead,” indeed. A mantra for the entitled, forever-carping fanbase, their appetite for every single scrap of unfinished music — every ultimately UNSANCTIONED (by the creator of the work, obviously) — impossible to satiate. Prince’s untimely passing and the subsequent opening of the floodgates — through which every boring, subpar recording (intermittently interesting, yes, though ALWAYS unfinished) could now flow - provided the “gift” that so many fans craved during Prince’s lifetime. Not that hours of “vault” material that has so far emerged been anywhere near enough to calm the vultures’ feeding frenzy. .

Yeah, I disagree with this as well, but first I want to compliment you on your writing, which is SO DAMN GOOD!! Every line was packed with great descriptive words. I kept thinking, is Camille Paglia on the org now?! Great job.

But, no. Every major artist has their vault raided in the end, usually to support their heirs, if not the label. As a listener, it's very easy to separate what came before from what came after, and there's no diminishing of canon. The release of a lukewarm 1999 era track doesn't change what 1999 was. Not in the least. It's finished paintings vs the sketches he made on the way. All relevant, though, and interesting to hear.

Yes, that's why I haven't bought any since the Purple Rain reissue. All artists record loads of tracks for an album, but they cut it down to about 10 of the best. Little Richard said of Prince, he should have released less material because, a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing.

No.

The vault is packed full of gems.

The recent releases had more amazing material than his last 10 releases when he was alive.

For context we need a good reference point. When is quantity at the expense of quality? Look at the following link. The 'top 3 albums ever' are uneven imo.
https://www.besteveralbum...hp?rank=10

Conversely, I can edit/reduce late 80s and early 90s Prince vault material (as yet unreleased) to smaller albums, about 5 in all, covering across 2 or 3 years of recording material each, so in the same time frame, and they clearly sound more consistent and better than Radiohead's OK Computer, Pink Floyd's DSOM, and Beatles' Abbey Road.

So either P is massively underrated by the masses and/or above named albums are overrated. Or I'm completely off. But nah . There's enough quality in the vault to come up with one brilliant album for every album he released.

I consider myself somewhat of a middle-of-the-road collector. I'm not Elite and I'm not a Newbie. Maybe closer to the super-collector side, but just as a point of reference.

Prior to the Purple Rain Deluxe, I had never even heard of Love And Sex, Katrina's Paper Dolls or Velvet Kitty Cat. And I didn't know there was a studio version of Electric Intercourse. Father's Song was also a surprise to hear in its entirety as a separate song. I'd also never heard that version of We Can Fuck. Granted, they were sourced from cassettes, but still.

Prior to 1999 Super Deluxe, I had never even heard of Rearrange, Vagina, Bold Generation, Money Don't Grow On Trees, or You're All I Want. I had only JUST heard of If It'll Make U Happy a year or so ago.

Although a Frankenstein mix, I'd never heard Prince's version of Nothing Compares 2 U.

Although mostly Frankenstein mixes, I'd only heard a few of the Originals tracks before.

The Deliverance EP (although not official) was also stuff I'd never heard.

I'd heard of most of the rest (Possessed, Wonderful Ass, Turn It Up, No Call U, Computer Blue Hallway Speech, etc.) in various stages of completion or quality.

So if I'd never heard ALL that stuff as a Prince fan, imagine how the general public feels? You could make 3 discs of all that stuff. And aside from maybe Colleen, I don't feel that any of the Vault stuff so far has been low quality as far as content (not talking sonic quality).

fortuneandserendipity said:

For context we need a good reference point. When is quantity at the expense of quality? Look at the following link. The 'top 3 albums ever' are uneven imo.
https://www.besteveralbum...hp?rank=10

Conversely, I can edit/reduce late 80s and early 90s Prince vault material (as yet unreleased) to smaller albums, about 5 in all, covering across 2 or 3 years of recording material each, so in the same time frame, and they clearly sound more consistent and better than Radiohead's OK Computer, Pink Floyd's DSOM, and Beatles' Abbey Road.

So either P is massively underrated by the masses and/or above named albums are overrated. Or I'm completely off. But nah . There's enough quality in the vault to come up with one brilliant album for every album he released.

You can tell from the Top 10 of that list that the writer is biased toward specifically Radiohead, The Beatles and Pink Floyd. The fact that 3 of Radiohead's albums are on there is a big red flag.

And I love Radiohead! The Bends is my favorite, although OK Computer is the one that they got the most critical love from.

DO I think there's another Purple Rain, 1999 or SOTT in the Vault? Hard to say. For someone who said that Albums Still Matter, Prince's last 2 releases were compilations.

Would Black Is The New Black have been Prince's Blackstar? A masterpiece to go out on? I don't know.

RJOrion said:

of the alleged "thousands of songs" in The Vault, if "Love & Sex", "Moonbeam Levels", "Vagina", "Lisa" and "Katrina's Paper Dolls" are the standouts, its CLEARLY quantity over quality... Love & Sex is the only real masterpiece to come out of the vault since P left

We CAN F^%K from Jan 1st, 1984 too... That one is a-mazing.

soladeo1 said:

RJOrion said:

soladeo1 said:

We CAN F^%K from Jan 1st, 1984 too... That one is a-mazing.

that one is great too... but we already heard Clinton's Grafitti Bridge version for years, so its not like that song was some unearthed hidden gem

They are significantly different versions though. The still-unreleased 86 version remains by far my favourite.

[Edited 7/8/20 1:23am]

Wolfie87 said:

Yes as to the pre 1996 vault. No as to the vault after 1996. We will end up getting collections of 1996-2016 material that are better than many of his studio releases. We gpt great vsult stuff from 1978-1996, but it wasn't better than what he released.

I want to know about that shelved Sheena Easton project in the vault - "Late Night Train". I also want to hear the recording of Sheena singing "Jaguar" - if it exists.

It says something when you can take the best 6 tracks off 1990 vault collection with best 6 tracks from 1991-92 collection and make an album as good as Revolver or Sgt. Pepper.

See these last 2 posters?

^^^Up there^^^

They get it

Just LOL

So called die hard fans, like the ones that permeate this board, have been collecting this shit with low tier sound and salivating for for decades for unreleased gems - often bitching about how the outtakes were SOOO much better than the official stuff - and, now that we're finally getting some of it (with decent sound for a change), are all *YAWN* - "just quantity over quality"

For 30 years now, all I've heard is WHEN WE DO WE GET TO HEAR THIS, combined with fans just GUSHING over stuff like "Empty Room"

Cool. cool. Ok then...

Tell you what. You guys skip it then.

I mean, sure, OK. SOme of this stuff was brushed aside, back burnered and set aside becuse Prince himself didn't think it was ready, fit an album, given to a protege or wasn't fully realized but who fucking cares? We aint getting any more NEW albums, folks.

I'll take it ALL. As fast as the Estate can release it. And I MUCH prefer the release of vault songs to remastered stuff I've heard a million times and beaten to absolute death since 1982.

I'll do the same comparison with Purple Rain as I did with 1999.

10/10:

Computer Blue (Hallway Speech)
Computer Blue
Noon Rendezvous
Let's Go Crazy
Father's Song
Erotic City
Electric Intercourse
The Beautiful Ones
The Dance Electric
When Doves Cry
17 Days
We Can Fuck
Purple Rain
Sex Shooter

9/10:

Wonderful Ass
100 MPH
Jungle Love
Another Lonely Christmas
Baby I'm a Star
Manic Monday
I Would Die 4 U
Love and Sex
Darling Nikki

8/10:

The Glamorous Life
God (Instrumental)
God
Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden

7/10:

Take Me With U
Katrina's Paper Dolls
Velvet Kitty Cat
Possessed '84

Again, the vault material is fairly competitive with the released material for me.

Certainly the fact that we have nearly 1000 unreleased original songs and alternate versions on bootlegs impacts our enthusiasm, not to mention the incredible amount of material Prince officially released in his lifetime. Just imagine if there had never been any bootleg, if all that stuff was completely new to us. Our perception of these collections would probably be very different. But how many songs have been released since Prince passed that were entirely unknown to us, in any version? 7 or 8, maybe? How many are there among the 45 SOTT outtakes? Maybe 3 or 4?

.

As one orger once said, it's unlikely there is anything in the vault that we haven't heard that's going to dramatically change our (or the world's) perception of Prince's music. Not after 42 years and thousands of songs released legally or otherwise. It's OK, we were there back then, Prince blew our minds back then.

.

Ironically, the most interesting unreleased material compilations won't probably be any covering Prince's "golden" years. It will probably be those featuring post 1995 material, for the simple reason that we haven't heard any of it. Again, there's probably nothing there that's going to be totally unexpected. But at least we may get whole CD's filled with songs we have never heard.

.

In the end, I'm always happy to get new material. Certainly I don't listen to these compilations of outtakes as much and as passionately as I would have 25 years ago, but it's still very cool to explore the corners of P's creativity.

.

Just don't expect anything extrardinary beyond the occasional entirely new song you'll fall in love with (or the outtake you'll rediscover thanks to improved sound quality). IDK if it's a case of quality over quantity. It's more a case of where your heart is

.

[Edited 7/8/20 20:04pm]

databank said:

.

As one orger once said, it's unlikely there is anything in the vault that we haven't heard that's going to dramatically change our (or the world's) perception of Prince's music. Not after 42 years and thousands of songs released legally or otherwise. It's OK, we were there back then, Prince blew our minds back then.

.

[Edited 7/8/20 20:04pm]

Nah, there's always new songs emerging across legal and illegal channels. I hear new tricks all the time, like the rockabilly-new wave hybrid songs on 1999 deluxe. And not all the songs can be prior bootlegs. What about 'We Can Fuck', was that a bootleg? Stuff on there, 3 slide notes followed by sick, out there chord changes. How, why can anyone hear that in their head? Totally original and mesmerizing.

fortuneandserendipity said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

databank said:

Certainly the fact that we have nearly 1000 unreleased original songs and alternate versions on bootlegs impacts our enthusiasm, not to mention the incredible amount of material Prince officially released in his lifetime. Just imagine if there had never been any bootleg, if all that stuff was completely new to us. Our perception of these collections would probably be very different. But how many songs have been released since Prince passed that were entirely unknown to us, in any version? 7 or 8, maybe? How many are there among the 45 SOTT outtakes? Maybe 3 or 4?

.

As one orger once said, it's unlikely there is anything in the vault that we haven't heard that's going to dramatically change our (or the world's) perception of Prince's music. Not after 42 years and thousands of songs released legally or otherwise. It's OK, we were there back then, Prince blew our minds back then.

.

Ironically, the most interesting unreleased material compilations won't probably be any covering Prince's "golden" years. It will probably be those featuring post 1995 material, for the simple reason that we haven't heard any of it. Again, there's probably nothing there that's going to be totally unexpected. But at least we may get whole CD's filled with songs we have never heard.

.

In the end, I'm always happy to get new material. Certainly I don't listen to these compilations of outtakes as much and as passionately as I would have 25 years ago, but it's still very cool to explore the corners of P's creativity.

.

Just don't expect anything extrardinary beyond the occasional entirely new song you'll fall in love with (or the outtake you'll rediscover thanks to improved sound quality). IDK if it's a case of quality over quantity. It's more a case of where your heart is

.

[Edited 7/8/20 20:04pm]

I would even say that when we old timers heard these boots when it mattered (in the late 80's and 90's when his career started to fade in the public perception after Batman) it kept his career going pretty strong. I really believe if it weren't for the boots and the stories and myths/legends of his vaults back then he would have a much smaller fan base then he has.
In my opinoin his early 90's outtakes are much stronger then most of the released stuff on Diamonds & Pearls, and Come album. But I still consider one of his top 5 records of his career.

databank said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Nah, there's always new songs emerging across legal and illegal channels. I hear new tricks all the time, like the rockabilly-new wave hybrid songs on 1999 deluxe. And not all the songs can be prior bootlegs. What about 'We Can Fuck', was that a bootleg? Stuff on there, 3 slide notes followed by sick, out there chord changes. How, why can anyone hear that in their head? Totally original and mesmerizing.

As a matter of fact between the released version and the bootlegs, including a snippet of this very version's most interesting part, there was very little to WCF that I hadn't heard before. I love to have it in full, with good sound quality, but it was hardly new to me.

I only had We Can Fuck from the early 00's from a mp3 boot newsgroup in really bad quality but it was an edit of the releasd version where the spoken part was removed.
That version was shared by 'Cymone1977' after 'Neversin' claimed on that group that We can Funk on Graffiti Bridge was the same as the '83 We Can Fuck but with updated vocals which no one believed because he didn't share it, and then that user came with a tape rip of it.
a decade later I heard a sample of that exact bad quality version he shared on a boot called Moral Mojority.

[Edited 7/9/20 1:53am]

THIS!!!!all day long.

herb4 said:

Just LOL

So called die hard fans, like the ones that permeate this board, have been collecting this shit with low tier sound and salivating for for decades for unreleased gems - often bitching about how the outtakes were SOOO much better than the official stuff - and, now that we're finally getting some of it (with decent sound for a change), are all *YAWN* - "just quantity over quality"

For 30 years now, all I've heard is WHEN WE DO WE GET TO HEAR THIS, combined with fans just GUSHING over stuff like "Empty Room"

Cool. cool. Ok then...

Tell you what. You guys skip it then.

I mean, sure, OK. SOme of this stuff was brushed aside, back burnered and set aside becuse Prince himself didn't think it was ready, fit an album, given to a protege or wasn't fully realized but who fucking cares? We aint getting any more NEW albums, folks.

I'll take it ALL. As fast as the Estate can release it. And I MUCH prefer the release of vault songs to remastered stuff I've heard a million times and beaten to absolute death since 1982.