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Reply #180 posted 05/14/20 2:03pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

lrn36 said:

JudasLChrist said:


The idea that people wig the fuck out cause they suspect racism when praise or credit is given to Prince's most lauded white bandmembers such as W&L is so embedded and old in these discussions that I forgot about it.

I don't believe that Wendy ever claimed to have introduced Prince to Jazz, but I sure as hell bet her and Lisa introduced him to some of the heavy 70s shit. In fact I know they did. The comment about intuition, as I remember, was in response to a question about P releationship to music theory, and I think it was actually about Mountains (or life can be so nice), and how he pulled a complcated change out of out of the air. I have read the thing about not wanting the Rev to turn into an R+B/funk review, and I never got that because that would fucking rule, and Parade was such rad period for that band.

America is a fucked up, racist shitshow, and I don't fault anyone for suspecting racism around every corner.

To be fair, Wendy also credited Prince as her biggest influence on guitar. She was floored when Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones seemingly out of nowhere. She said he was running on all cylinders. There is obviously a tremendous love and respect W & L have for Prince. I get the impression they thought the Revolution could be the next Beatles and Prince just wasn't commited to that idea. Maybe that disappointment still festers in some way.


Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!

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Reply #181 posted 05/14/20 2:07pm

bonatoc

avatar

JudasLChrist said:


Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!



Easy, dude. You gonna make a vein pop.
And no, they weren't.


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #182 posted 05/14/20 2:10pm

lavendardrumma
chine

lrn36 said:

I would say his early demos and first two albums were more musically complex than the Purple Rain to Parade era.



Prince was dabling in more minimal musicality, so knocking him for not sounding like earlier work, a lot of which was standad issue soul and funk, is counter to the rest of your post. It's also hard to agree with.Maybe you could name a song or two, but ....

And intution is a compliment. He was born with it. You can't buy intution at Berkelee School of Music. It's not technical chops that leads to dropping the bass from When Doves Cry, it's intuition.

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Reply #183 posted 05/14/20 2:11pm

JudasLChrist

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bonatoc said:

JudasLChrist said:


Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!



Easy, dude. You gonna make a vein pop.
And no, they weren't.



Oh yes they were. Obviously this is subjective, but I strongly identify with the music and the cultural meanings of The Revolution as a band way more. And besides, even John Lennon was like "Fuck the Beatles".

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Reply #184 posted 05/14/20 2:21pm

lavendardrumma
chine

RJOrion said:

in fact all of you are whining for 6 pages because i dont like W&L's music...that continues to humor me, as if you cant tell by now...ive tried to explain clearly and eloquently how and why i feel the way i do, but some of you are so stuck in your feelings that you wont let it go...if im "whining" so much and it hurts you so much, why do you keep addressing me?..


Maybe give the dimissiveness and the you against the Org world thing a rest? People are looking for things to discuss, and toss around, and that isn't because you or anyone here marely has a difference of opinion. Not sure why anyone actively on this forum wouldn't encourage fertile discussion and there's a lot of on topic, good discussion so what's the point of trying to crap on that or take focus? Doesn't seem very tolerant of the OP's post or the rest of us.

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Reply #185 posted 05/14/20 2:26pm

lavendardrumma
chine

RJOrion said:

i dont expect to reach an understanding or even an agreeable compromise with the opposite race while discussing matters of race, and how it applies to art, politics, entertainment or any other human endeavor...blacks and whites have NEVER agreed on how racism and prejudice is employed and acted out,


Which is valid, but refusing to give the same consideration over gender and sexuality is suspect as hell in light of that.

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Reply #186 posted 05/14/20 2:27pm

RJOrion

"Fuck the Beatles. The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!"

-----


LOLOL...The Revolution themselves wouldnt even form their lips and tongues to dare say something so outlandish out of their very own mouths...what metrics do you employ to come to this conclusion?..or is that merely your own opinion, which is fine...but the "fuck the beatles" and the "so many levels" parts need further elaboration and justification...or else you are dare i say, "pissing in the wind"😎
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Reply #187 posted 05/14/20 2:28pm

lavendardrumma
chine

JudasLChrist said:

And besides, even John Lennon was like "Fuck the Beatles".


Lennon was no Tony M, that's for sure.

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Reply #188 posted 05/14/20 2:31pm

dodger

RJOrion said:

"Fuck the Beatles. The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!"

-----


LOLOL...The Revolution themselves wouldnt even form their lips and tongues to dare say something so outlandish out of their very own mouths...what metrics do you employ to come to this conclusion?..or is that merely your own opinion, which is fine...but the "fuck the beatles" and the "so many levels" parts need further elaboration and justification...or else you are dare i say, "pissing in the wind"😎


Glad you said it. Couldn’t let my fellow scousers (people from Liverpool) be ripped like that 😏
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Reply #189 posted 05/14/20 2:33pm

RJOrion

lavendardrummachine said:



RJOrion said:


i dont expect to reach an understanding or even an agreeable compromise with the opposite race while discussing matters of race, and how it applies to art, politics, entertainment or any other human endeavor...blacks and whites have NEVER agreed on how racism and prejudice is employed and acted out,


Which is valid, but refusing to give the same consideration over gender and sexuality is suspect as hell in light of that.




the gender and sexuality was never my issue which is/was made quite clear...i specifically singled out Wendy's "delusions of grandeur", and W&Ls post revolution music (which i didnt like),. and the disrespect shown to P's black and brown bandmates...i love women (especially talented female musicians) and even lesbian women as well, as ive displayed at this very site, so im confident thats not directed at me, nor should it be.
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Reply #190 posted 05/14/20 2:46pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

RJOrion said:

"Fuck the Beatles. The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!" ----------- LOLOL...The Revolution themselves wouldnt even form their lips and tongues to dare say something so outlandish out of their very own mouths...what metrics do you employ to come to this conclusion?..or is that merely your own opinion, which is fine...but the "fuck the beatles" and the "so many levels" parts need further elaboration and justification...or else you are dare i say, "pissing in the wind"😎


It actually needs no elaboration. The Beatles mean (next to) nothing to me. I like Abbey Road, but it's no Around the World in a Day. Hell, the poster that came with Purple Rain is better than every note the Beatles ever recorded.

Sorry to derail this thread.

[Edited 5/14/20 14:47pm]

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Reply #191 posted 05/14/20 3:26pm

bonatoc

avatar

RJOrion said:

i dont expect to reach an understanding or even an agreeable compromise with the opposite race while discussing matters of race, and how it applies to art, politics, entertainment or any other human endeavor...
blacks and whites have NEVER agreed on how racism and prejudice is employed and acted out, and we never will..

its the human condition that rears its head in every aspect of life and it will never change as long as different races of people walk the earth...so to say im "pissing against the wind" is not my concern nor should you even care...

Brown people live in a perpetual state of conflict against the anglo saxon peoples and their followers, and this site is a microcosm of that condition...so trying to convince me otherwise is an effort in futility...no one said The Revoltion sucked either...so now, words are being twisted and accusations are being made recklessly, but as usual that is par for the course



Luckily for you and me, there could be as many views and opinions
on what the "human condition" is as there are humans,
regardless of what their gender or race is.

I have a hard time figuring out you being the authority on how "Brown people" live.
Reducing a skin color to a monolithic, single-minded entity is racist from the start.
Your personal experiences doesn't make them universal rules,
I know it's hard to swallow, we all have to face the music.

Because you believe in a "perpetual state of conflict" doesn't mean we all are,
or believe in it and live accordingly to it.

We move alone into the world, according to our personal inner beliefs.
They define our loves, friendships and what we believe in.
And they're oh so stained by the environment where we grow in.
They're just inner beliefs, and how comfortable it would be
if they could pop out of our head and become the undisputable truth to all.
The world is a more complex place.

The fact that humans aggregates around behaviours,
right or wrong (everyone is persuaded he adheres to the right, right),
is simply because loneliness is unbearable to most, if not all,
and its instinctive rejection common to most, if not all.

We join and behave as grouped entities because having to deal
with billions of free spirits and wills would be utter chaos,
another unbearable fear of the human condition.

The mind is lazy and likes the two antagonist camps concept,
it's so much more convenient to resume the world like this,
"anglo-saxons and their followers" against whatever Brown Camp
you'd like to be the spokesperson of.



As for reducing the entire Org to a single "condition",
that's some pretty high opinion you have of your opinion.



Luckily, this place is full of "conditions"
as varied as Prince's œuvre.




[Edited 5/14/20 15:31pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #192 posted 05/14/20 3:58pm

PennyPurple

avatar

JudasLChrist said:

lrn36 said:

To be fair, Wendy also credited Prince as her biggest influence on guitar. She was floored when Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones seemingly out of nowhere. She said he was running on all cylinders. There is obviously a tremendous love and respect W & L have for Prince. I get the impression they thought the Revolution could be the next Beatles and Prince just wasn't commited to that idea. Maybe that disappointment still festers in some way.


Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!

OMG, The Rev was not better than the Beatles. falloff

Next thing ya know, you all will be saying The Rev can walk on water.

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #193 posted 05/14/20 4:11pm

PennyPurple

avatar

JudasLChrist said:


The idea that people wig the fuck out cause they suspect racism when praise or credit is given to Prince's most lauded white bandmembers such as W&L is so embedded and old in these discussions that I forgot about it.

I don't believe that Wendy ever claimed to have introduced Prince to Jazz, but I sure as hell bet her and Lisa introduced him to some of the heavy 70s shit. In fact I know they did. The comment about intuition, as I remember, was in response to a question about P releationship to music theory, and I think it was actually about Mountains (or life can be so nice), and how he pulled a complcated change out of out of the air. I have read the thing about not wanting the Rev to turn into an R+B/funk review, and I never got that because that would fucking rule, and Parade was such rad period for that band.

America is a fucked up, racist shitshow, and I don't fault anyone for suspecting racism around every corner.

Yes she did claim that.

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #194 posted 05/14/20 4:41pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

PennyPurple said:

JudasLChrist said:


Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!

OMG, The Rev was not better than the Beatles. falloff

Next thing ya know, you all will be saying The Rev can walk on water.



OMG nowadays org sucks.

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Reply #195 posted 05/14/20 4:58pm

rednblue

JudasLChrist said:



PennyPurple said:




JudasLChrist said:




Fuck the Beatles! The Revolution was so much better than the Beatles! ON SO MANY LEVELS!



OMG, The Rev was not better than the Beatles. falloff


Next thing ya know, you all will be saying The Rev can walk on water.





OMG nowadays org sucks.



So, I choose to listen to way, way more purple music (Mountains and tons of other songs, with plenty of songs from all the purple decades) than I do Beatles music. I think that’s just me being me. Each one of us is a unique individual. : )
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Reply #196 posted 05/14/20 5:45pm

gandorb

JudasLChrist said:

jone70 said:


Right, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact he liked Susannah. /s She brough Susannah to the table. lol Wendy is a good musician, I don't think anyone on this thread is disputing that. People are simply pointing out that she has shown a repeated propensity (particulary since 4/21/16) for embellishing her, Lisa, and the Revolution's contributions and influence on Prince,


No, she has not. Wendy has been very careful to explain what their contribution was. Too carefeul, imo. She shouldn't have to be so careful.

nod Good point. On probably a lesser note, my first association with seeing your name is film critic Judith Crist and only later some type of religious reference. She was inspirational lol !

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Reply #197 posted 05/14/20 6:34pm

bonatoc

avatar

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was. [Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]


Syracuse’s "When Doves Cry" just came on,
and good luck coming with such fierceness and musicianship
when you're barely 20 year old and have to step into the shoes of
one of the best rock guitarists ever to grace the planet.

On your first tour, a mammoth production with full arenas
filled with tens of thousand screaming like English girls
making a pool in front of the Fab Four, night after night for four months.
And you better get some sleep, we have early soundcheck tomorrow.

Who's downplaying who, exactly?

[Edited 5/14/20 18:39pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #198 posted 05/14/20 7:42pm

violetcrush

PennyPurple said:

JudasLChrist said:


The idea that people wig the fuck out cause they suspect racism when praise or credit is given to Prince's most lauded white bandmembers such as W&L is so embedded and old in these discussions that I forgot about it.

I don't believe that Wendy ever claimed to have introduced Prince to Jazz, but I sure as hell bet her and Lisa introduced him to some of the heavy 70s shit. In fact I know they did. The comment about intuition, as I remember, was in response to a question about P releationship to music theory, and I think it was actually about Mountains (or life can be so nice), and how he pulled a complcated change out of out of the air. I have read the thing about not wanting the Rev to turn into an R+B/funk review, and I never got that because that would fucking rule, and Parade was such rad period for that band.

America is a fucked up, racist shitshow, and I don't fault anyone for suspecting racism around every corner.

Yes she did claim that.

No, Wendy DID NOT state that she introduced Prince to Jazz music. Lisa actually stated that during her interview with Questlove, and Susannah mentioned it duirng her first interview with Toure.

*

And Prince, duirng his first P&M show at PP, talked about how Lisa told him her favorite musician was Bill Evans, and then he paused and said, "I know, right?? to the audience - as in, I didn't know who he was either.

*

So, I have no doubt both Wendy and Lisa introduced Prince to music that he hadn't listened to before. Their Fathers had been in the business for 20-30 years prior to them meeting Prince. Suannah recently posted a pic of her and Wendy in a London recording studio at age 13 singing on their first backround vocal. So, yeah, they'd been around the musical block.

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Reply #199 posted 05/14/20 7:43pm

violetcrush

lavendardrummachine said:

lrn36 said:

I would say his early demos and first two albums were more musically complex than the Purple Rain to Parade era.



Prince was dabling in more minimal musicality, so knocking him for not sounding like earlier work, a lot of which was standad issue soul and funk, is counter to the rest of your post. It's also hard to agree with.Maybe you could name a song or two, but ....

And intution is a compliment. He was born with it. You can't buy intution at Berkelee School of Music. It's not technical chops that leads to dropping the bass from When Doves Cry, it's intuition.

Yes. Susan Rogers stated she felt that a big part of Prince's genius was hearing and understanding what would be a "pop" hit. She said he had that innate ability, and he was a master at melody.

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Reply #200 posted 05/14/20 7:49pm

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was. [Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]


Syracuse’s "When Doves Cry" just came on,
and good luck coming with such fierceness and musicianship
when you're barely 20 year old and have to step into the shoes of
one of the best rock guitarists ever to grace the planet.

On your first tour, a mammoth production with full arenas
filled with tens of thousand screaming like English girls
making a pool in front of the Fab Four, night after night for four months.
And you better get some sleep, we have early soundcheck tomorrow.

Who's downplaying who, exactly?

[Edited 5/14/20 18:39pm]

YES!!! And over a year before Syracuse as a 19 yr old on stage at a "busting at the seams" First Avenue debuting as the new guitarist in the band, and playiing the first chords of Purple Rain for a seemingly endless stretch of time while your leader slowly saunters around you on stage....

*

Prince @ 1st Avenue 8.3.1983 Benefit Concert

*

Sorry, but I would say she's underrated - NOT overrated...

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Reply #201 posted 05/14/20 7:57pm

donnyenglish

violetcrush said:

bonatoc said:


Syracuse’s "When Doves Cry" just came on,
and good luck coming with such fierceness and musicianship
when you're barely 20 year old and have to step into the shoes of
one of the best rock guitarists ever to grace the planet.

On your first tour, a mammoth production with full arenas
filled with tens of thousand screaming like English girls
making a pool in front of the Fab Four, night after night for four months.
And you better get some sleep, we have early soundcheck tomorrow.

Who's downplaying who, exactly?

[Edited 5/14/20 18:39pm]

YES!!! And over a year before Syracuse as a 19 yr old on stage at a "busting at the seams" First Avenue debuting as the new guitarist in the band, and playiing the first chords of Purple Rain for a seemingly endless stretch of time while your leader slowly saunters around you on stage....

*

Prince @ 1st Avenue 8.3.1983 Benefit Concert

*

Sorry, but I would say she's underrated - NOT overrated...

She butchered the intro and he had to overdub it.

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Reply #202 posted 05/14/20 8:01pm

violetcrush

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

One thing you don't seem to realize is that Wendy would never have been invited to join the band had Prince not believed she was a great player and could also bring something more to the table.


Right, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact he liked Susannah. /s She brough Susannah to the table. lol Wendy is a good musician, I don't think anyone on this thread is disputing that. People are simply pointing out that she has shown a repeated propensity (particulary since 4/21/16) for embellishing her, Lisa, and the Revolution's contributions and influence on Prince,

WOW. What an insult to Prince and his music to say/think that the only reason Prince would bring a new player in to his band was solely for the purpose of shagging her Sister. That's got to be about the dumbest comment I've seen here so far.

*

Sorry, but the fact that they are FINALLY able to freely discuss the details of their time with Prince in no way translates to them "embellishing" their contributions.

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Reply #203 posted 05/14/20 8:01pm

AvocadosMax

I think Prince brought the best out of people. Wendy & Lisa taught Prince some things and Prince taught them a whole lot as well. When they came together, it made for some of the most awesome music ever.

Wendy & Lisa on their own are ok. They still are talented but they lack the spark that they showed they could have with Prince.

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Reply #204 posted 05/14/20 8:05pm

AvocadosMax

Prince HAD to go in a different direction after 87. It just had to have been done. Why would Prince rid on the idea of being "the next BEATLES"?? That's just dumb. And NOT Prince. Prince was always moving forward and staying young. If he continued on the Purple Rain or Parade or Dream Factory state for so long, it would have been hella stale. He knew that. He saw the big picture.

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Reply #205 posted 05/14/20 8:07pm

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

RJOrion said:

What's also funny and VERY revealing is the same people who cape up for Wendy & Lisa, will remorselessly bash, disrespect and ridicule Prince collaborators like Larry Graham (who is WAY more accomplished and legendary than the entire Revolution combined), or Tony M. who was featured on Prince songs much longer than W&L were. But where is that same energy when the anti Larry Graham and Tony M rhetoric starts running rampant?...some of you just cant help but show your true colors...and i love it...so keep going..😎



Dear RJOrion, it seems like for you, it's either sales, duration,
or a "legendary" status that defines greatness,
because apparently "greatness" is what you crave for.

Except it ain't what Rock'n'Roll is all about.
In Rock'n'Roll, it happens because of stars alignment,
because a group of pals hit it off.

You'd probably wouldn't be pissing so hard against the wind
if Wendy & Lisa made a Top 10 with "Waterfall" or "Strung Out".
Hey, you want legendary, turns out
they're offspring to precisely that.

You seem to defend Prince on the basis he was so great
he deserved so much better than these "no-musicians",
but there's a contradiction here.

Either Prince is great, or he's so bad he can't pick musicians.
Next thing you'll argue that Prince wanted to appear so great
that he surrounded himself with poor musicianship on purpose.
Atta fan.

Databank sent you over the ring, and you declared forfeit,
before coming back with some missing teeth and keep on spitting
on women that made a name for themselves, actually the only ones
in the whole Prince menagerie.

For someone "legendary", Larry Graham has sure become confidential
to the public as Wendy & Lisa are. His music isn't played anymore,
and it wasn't that interesting in the first place. And frankly,
I frown upon anyone who calls himself the inventor of something.
There is a tradition of slapping bass since the 1920s.

This guy is so full of himself, of course he's despicable.
And slap bass, ahhh, the infamous slap bass, let's see,
when was the last time I heard that horrid
giant spring mattress sound on a hit
(since it's all that matters, right)?

Oh yes. Or maybe this? That?
Slap bass. Mph.
"Legendary" my ass.
No one wants to hear
the aforementioned anymore.

Like surf guitar, very fine on a Tarantino soundtrack,
maybe once a year, and then it goes back on the shelf,
because honestly, who wants to hear that? It's aural mould.

Steven Tyler took the gun from Janie's hands
and nailed the style's coffin with a Korg M1, of all basses.
That's exactly what it deserved.
Rest in peace, fad.



Prince is precisely great because,
like he said so himself, The Revolution was his Rock'n'Roll Mount Rushmore,
(and with much more finesse and fun than Deep Purple, another band
no one wants to listen anymore to except Rolling Stone subscribers).

Maybe you don't grasp exactly what Rock'n'Roll is about.
You start in a garage (a basement, a yard) and then
you stick together and make it to the top. Prince did not want
just a solo career. He wanted some "Prince and The Band".

Rock'n'Roll goes like this (the fourth, the fifth):
You start with friends who can hold an instrument.
Then, if you get lucky, some chemistry operates (you certainly don't need
"legendary" abilities — Larry Graham sure can slap quarter notes on the beat,
but as a solo baryton, he sucks like few male voices,
and I've listened to some, trust me),
and something unexpected, awkward yet magical can happen.
A combination of souls expressing a common intention.

The Ramones, The Bangles, The Stooges, The Clash, U2,
Hole, The Velvet Underground, The Beatles, The Stones,
Elvis, Scotty and Bill crossing Sun Studio’s doorway to make a demo for Ma,
say no more, say no more.


What makes these bands unique and alive is the sum of their parts,
and it doesn't matter if the drummer or the guitarist is as "good" as Ringo.

Ringo is a genius in his own way. It's intention that lasts in art,
not execution. Perfection in execution is mental masturbation,
and we discussed Prince’s speed in the studio enough to know
he was right, the draft matters and is often much purer
than something worked to "perfection" (God how this version sucks).

Whereas with session musicians, you can never go wrong.
There will never be danger. But there will never be soul either,
the Wrecking Crew, the Funk Brothers, Sly and Robbie
being rare exceptions (turns out they were friends outside the studio).

If you're looking for Steely Dan laser-like precision,
stick to the late nineties and over Prince, post Sonny & Michael.

It doesn't matter if Wendy & Lisa composed just a few songs.
So did George Harrison, and Eric Clapton he ain't.
What matters is that this group of pals making music (finally some slap with meaning!)
ignited in Prince’s mind a decade worth of songs in just two years,
all astounding, masterpieces on which he based
his entire following career once The Revolution was no more.

That doesn't take away his genius from him,
but after this purely incredible burst of studio creativity,
with released work qualified unanimously as stainless,
all he did was refining, simplifying, take some other
approach on ideas that were born from this original excitement
of having close friends and soulmates around, no matter their technical skills.

He climbed to the top with his friends,
not with some guys who get paid a fortune and spend
a day in the studio doing twenty "perfect" takes and then take off.

That ain't funky at all.


[Edited 5/14/20 14:05pm]

yeahthat

*

And this - beautiful lyrics from Prince to Wendy, Lisa, and Susannah:

*

To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day you went away
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down
Yeah
In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of you
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put you through
Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time

[Edited 5/14/20 20:09pm]

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Reply #206 posted 05/14/20 8:19pm

bonatoc

avatar

AvocadosMax said:

Prince HAD to go in a different direction after 87. It just had to have been done. Why would Prince rid on the idea of being "the next BEATLES"?? That's just dumb. And NOT Prince. Prince was always moving forward and staying young. If he continued on the Purple Rain or Parade or Dream Factory state for so long, it would have been hella stale. He knew that. He saw the big picture.


You would have us believe it was all a preconceived plan.

Not quite. He wrote historical songs because the Melvoins were around,
and shortly thereafter (breakups always bring great songs to great artists).
From "Play In The Sunshine" to "It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night",
the scent of the Melvoins sisters is all over Sign O’ The Times : "Starfish & Coffee",
"Forever In My Life", "If I Was Your Girlfriend", "Strange Relationship".
Whether their contributions were actual or an inspiration,
they shaped the end result.

Then he had a breakdown, and then a religious epiphany.
And then a difficult five years, bordeline blank page, and it took the WB wars,
legal twists and public ridicule, and almost a bankruptcy to give him true inventive rage again.

The Big Picture he saw at the time was an anonymous record
with a smiley on the sleeve, to put out simultaneously
with a triple album worth of fabulous material,
and when WB said no, it became this half-assed of an album
that is still a masterpiece, well, because that's what Prince
recorded all of 1985 and 1986, masterpieces.

Prince was so pissed he made them print and burn
thousands of copies of a gloomy and bleak

album with no name at all, no visuals whatsoever,
with references to mindless sex, drugs, gangs, porn and sado-masochism.

If WB had acted like Columbia, and just let Prince
put out Camille and The Dream Factory, everyone's career
would have been much different.


You're right, Prince was always going forward.
That doesn't mean it was by choice.

Graffiti Bridge is not only forced, it's also a statement
that inspiration was missing, and that old songs
had to come to the rescue.

Diamonds and Pearls remains his most blatant attempt
to put fame before artistic integrity, even though
the great songs overshadow the lukewarm ones.

Prince made his career as he went on.


[Edited 5/14/20 20:52pm]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #207 posted 05/14/20 8:24pm

violetcrush

Just found this old article about the 1983 First Ave concert from a 2010 thread posted by OF4S, which I think describes Wendy and her chemistry with Prince very well:

*

The 1983 concert took place at First Avenue in Minneapolis. A year later when the club was featured in Purple Rain (the movie), the venue would be changed forever. In 1983 however, it was perfect for hosting a newly minted Prince & The Revolution. Prince had been performing with some of the band members for a while, but the show was the debut of guitarist Wendy Melvoin who would continue with the band until their dissolution in 1986.
But back on track – the 1983 show (August 3rd, to be more exact) was the first public live performance of Prince & The Revolution. The concert was a benefit for the Minnesota Dance Theater Company. It was also the first time the band would perform several of what would become their signature tracks, most importantly Purple Rain.
Everyone knows the song. Play the first few chords and you’ll have everyone around you singing along. But in 1983 that wasn’t the case. Instead you had a capacity crowd silenced by the song’s first performance. This is one of only a handful of bootlegs of this track that does not have the crowd going nuts; instead they listen to the song and literally see history in the making. Obviously they can’t sing along, the song is new. So instead they listen; Seeing Prince at his absolute rawest in a tiny club with bad sound, sweating his ass off for the Minnesota Dance Theater Company. And melting off faces with one of his best guitar solos.
This live show made up the basis for several Purple Rain tracks, including the title track, I Would Die 4 U and Baby I’m A Star. Prince’s vocals are spot on with how you know them – because they were recorded from a mobile truck outside of First Avenue. Add in a few overdubs and there you have it, one of the best selling albums of the 80s.
Regardless of how you view Prince now, back then one thing was clear – his name was Prince, his favorite color was purple, and he was a bad motherfucker.
*
Wendy Melvoin is fresh from high school. She is a wearing a V-necked sleeveless top, and patterned shorts. She is playing the first chords of a new song on her purple guitar, opening chords that she wrote, a circular motif with a chorus effect. Wendy is eighteen nineteen and she has the high cheekbones and diffident confidence of a Hollywood upbringing. She half-smiles at the faces that crowd close to the low club stage. This is Wendy’s first gig with the new band, and the song she is playing is Purple Rain, and nobody in the audience has ever heard Purple Rain before because this is the night that Prince and the Revolution record the song.

Maybe Wendy is half-smiling because she is thinking about the time when she was thirteen years old and she snuck out of the house with her twin sister, Susannah, to hang out at a club called Starwood. The sisters danced, and then the DJ played a piece of bubblegum funk with a coy gushing lyric about the Soft and Wet qualities of a lover. The song made Wendy stop dead. She ran up to the DJ booth and asked, who is that girl singing, and the DJ told her it was not a girl but a boy called Prince. I think that half-smile of hers is in appreciation of the irony that she was once a fan of the man she now shares the stage with.
We hear Prince, his harsh guitar cutting across Wendy’s. We don’t see him yet. Purple Rain has a long introduction. The sound guy keeps scuttling around in the stage front. Wendy sees someone in the audience and smiles full beam. Her hair tumbles over one eye in a quiff, and there is a sheen on her breastbone from the heat in the club. It’s August and nearly ninety degrees in there; when Prince appears behind her, she regains her cool.

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Reply #208 posted 05/14/20 8:26pm

violetcrush

bonatoc said:

AvocadosMax said:

Prince HAD to go in a different direction after 87. It just had to have been done. Why would Prince rid on the idea of being "the next BEATLES"?? That's just dumb. And NOT Prince. Prince was always moving forward and staying young. If he continued on the Purple Rain or Parade or Dream Factory state for so long, it would have been hella stale. He knew that. He saw the big picture.


Not exactly. He wrote fabulous songs because they were around, and shortly thereafter (breakups always bring great songs to great artists).

Then he had a breakdown and a religious epiphany.
And then a difficult five years, and it took the WB wars
to give him true inventive rage again.

The Big Picture he saw at the time was an anonymous record
with a smiley on the sleeve, and when WB said no, he said
I have a triple album worth of fabulous material,
and when WB said no, it became this half-assed of an album
that is still a masterpiece, well, because that's what Prince
recorded all of 1985 and 1986, masterpieces.

He was so pissed he made them print and burn
thousands of copies of an album with no name at all.

If WB had acted like Columbia, and just let Prince
put out Camille and The Dream Factory, everyone's career
would have been much different.

[Edited 5/14/20 20:20pm]

yeahthat AGAIN biggrin

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Reply #209 posted 05/14/20 8:50pm

PennyPurple

avatar

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes she did claim that.

No, Wendy DID NOT state that she introduced Prince to Jazz music. Lisa actually stated that during her interview with Questlove, and Susannah mentioned it duirng her first interview with Toure.

*

And Prince, duirng his first P&M show at PP, talked about how Lisa told him her favorite musician was Bill Evans, and then he paused and said, "I know, right?? to the audience - as in, I didn't know who he was either.

*

So, I have no doubt both Wendy and Lisa introduced Prince to music that he hadn't listened to before. Their Fathers had been in the business for 20-30 years prior to them meeting Prince. Suannah recently posted a pic of her and Wendy in a London recording studio at age 13 singing on their first backround vocal. So, yeah, they'd been around the musical block.

P's father had been in the business for years also....

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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