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Reply #120 posted 05/12/20 5:30pm

lavendardrumma
chine

databank said:

Again, Wendy and Lisa are not making a CLAIM.

Agreed, even if my wording is imperfect we're saying the same thing.

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Reply #121 posted 05/12/20 7:02pm

violetcrush

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

*

Wendy and Lisa are by far the Prince associates who've had the most steady career and biggest accolades over the years.

*


lol So Sheila E. didn't have a steady career or accolades? What about Carmen Electra? Ok, maybe no accolades for Carmen, but you can't deny she's hasn't had a relatively steady career. smile

How many songs/albums has Sheila written and produced after leaving the Prince camp?? Yes, she's kept a steady career playing gigs with her E Train band, and occasional gigs with Prince in the 2000's, but certainly has not produced the music or done the amount of collaborating that W&L have done since leaving PP.

*

And I hope you're kidding about Carmen E?? confused She was a good lay for Prince, and that's about all there was to that situation.... playboy tonk

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Reply #122 posted 05/12/20 7:07pm

violetcrush

CherryMoon57 said:

PennyPurple said:

The Rev were only a band that he hired...just like all the other bands that he hired.

Why would Prince want his sound to stay the same? He liked to stay fresh, change things up.

Erm I think they were a lot more than that. Prince met the Rivkin brothers (ie Bobby Z and his brother David Z) around 1976 which was even before he had any contract with Warner, you could say they were his gateway to stardom as David (who was already a prolific sound engineer at Sound 80) helped Prince create his first demo that led to his first record contract with WB... Amongst many things Bobby Z was involved in Bob Dylan's re-recording of Blood on The Tracks... Also, the Revolution rose to international stardom at the same time as Prince did. No other 'hired' band shared that very special early connection the Revolution had with Prince. Wendy and Lisa went on to produce great music including one fantastic album (Wendy and Lisa) which I used to play on a loop when I was younger and which remains one of my favourite albums to date. They also wrote the beautiful 'Water to the Wave'... They are all highly talented people and it is not hard to see why Prince collaborated with them for the most crucial part of his career.

Right on, CherryMoon - and Vannormal laid out all of their music and collaborations with other great artists throughout the last 30 years (post 78).

*

I feel compelled to leave a lil' bit of In This Bed I Scream right here for the naysayers smile

*

To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
To these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day you went away
How did we ever lose communication?
How did we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if you wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down
Tell me, how're we gonna put this back together?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving together all the time
Living and loving
In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream
In this car I drive
I'm looking for the road that leads back to the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)
*
Clearly, Prince knew what they meant to him both as friends and collaborators nod yes
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Reply #123 posted 05/12/20 8:08pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

There are just people here that want to rip on W&L no matter what. Both of them are open about what they contributed, and they are also humble about it. Prince made a point of crediting them many times, including at his last shows. Get over it, ya'll.

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Reply #124 posted 05/12/20 11:54pm

Vannormal

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.

-

tbh

if he knew that, why playing licks in front of P ?

(everyone has some kind of agenda when working for Prince. certainly back in the days)

-

could he name some songs ?

if his licks were so good

where is he now?

(although i wish him all the best)

-

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #125 posted 05/13/20 2:55am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

Vannormal said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.

-

tbh

if he knew that, why playing licks in front of P ?

.

He stopped doing it, but then the job became unsatisfying.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #126 posted 05/13/20 5:13am

darlingnikkkki

Enjoyed listening to their Purple Playlist on The Prince Channel. I chuckled when Lisa talked about Prince showing the lyrics he made for Mountains and her reaction when she read the 17 mountains part. Also talked about the recording of the song.
"I want to be the only one you come for...."
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Reply #127 posted 05/13/20 5:25am

thebanishedone

For the first time i agree with Rorion .you guys are overrating Wendy and Lisa's impact on Prince.And they did say a lot of bullshit ,some of them "introducing Prince to jazz" and Wendy saying that she had introduce Prince to suspended chords (bflat sus2 Purple Rain) which is bullshit cause if you listen to I Feel 4 U you can hear suspended sus 2 and sus 4 chords. Regarding Mountains i believe only the verse change G F C is done by the girls.the rest is Prince
[Edited 5/13/20 11:21am]
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Reply #128 posted 05/13/20 9:10am

masaba

BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.

The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.
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Reply #129 posted 05/13/20 9:59am

JudasLChrist

avatar

masaba said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.

The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.

Is your mom a musician?

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Reply #130 posted 05/13/20 10:15am

RJOrion

masaba said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.

The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.



what a coincidence...your mom told me the same thing 😎
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Reply #131 posted 05/13/20 10:35am

lavendardrumma
chine

thebanishedone said:

Regarding Mountains i believe only the verse change G F C is done by the girls.the rest is Prince



Very possible, but that's not nothing.

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Reply #132 posted 05/13/20 10:44am

masaba

JudasLChrist said:



masaba said:


BartVanHemelen said:

Miko has repeatedly said that one of the main reasons he left was because he was tired of hering licks he came up with in rehearsal end up as songs and never getting credit.



The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.


Is your mom a musician?

Not even remotely. Lawyer, which pretty much explains her perspective lol.
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Reply #133 posted 05/13/20 10:45am

masaba

RJOrion said:

masaba said:

The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.



what a coincidence...your mom told me the same thing 😎
I know, I was there remember?
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Reply #134 posted 05/13/20 10:49am

RJOrion

masaba said:

RJOrion said:




what a coincidence...your mom told me the same thing 😎
I know, I was there remember?


LOL...you're a good sport 👍🏿
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Reply #135 posted 05/13/20 11:23am

thebanishedone

lavendardrummachine said:



thebanishedone said:


Regarding Mountains i believe only the verse change G F C is done by the girls.the rest is Prince



Very possible, but that's not nothing.


Its not much either.you cant pattern song based on chord progression
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Reply #136 posted 05/13/20 2:31pm

thebanishedone

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was.
[Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]
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Reply #137 posted 05/13/20 2:53pm

RJOrion

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was.
[Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]


yep..Lisa was nice on the keys no doubt...but Wendy was at best, an average rhythm guitar player...Miko Weaver, Levi Seacer, and Dez Dickerson were substantially better than her...its not even close or debateable...like you said, she was "competent"...while Miko was very underrated.
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Reply #138 posted 05/13/20 3:00pm

thebanishedone

RJOrion said:

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was.
[Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]


yep..Lisa was nice on the keys no doubt...but Wendy was at best, an average rhythm guitar player...Miko Weaver, Levi Seacer, and Dez Dickerson were substantially better than her...its not even close or debateable...like you said, she was "competent"...while Miko was very underrated.
o agree Miko was much better but he was getting 2 much attention from the ladies and Prince didn't like that
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Reply #139 posted 05/13/20 3:13pm

RJOrion

thebanishedone said:

RJOrion said:



yep..Lisa was nice on the keys no doubt...but Wendy was at best, an average rhythm guitar player...Miko Weaver, Levi Seacer, and Dez Dickerson were substantially better than her...its not even close or debateable...like you said, she was "competent"...while Miko was very underrated.
o agree Miko was much better but he was getting 2 much attention from the ladies and Prince didn't like that


i read somewhere that P had a falling out with Miko because he was dating underage girls...cant remember where i read it, but i clearly remember that.
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Reply #140 posted 05/13/20 4:13pm

JudasLChrist

avatar

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was. [Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]



Both of them are great. Miko is a harder funker than Wendy, but wendy Has air and chord imagination. No "Purple Rain" without Wendy's voicing. It would have been a country song, otherwise. That's not to say that Wendy couldn't funk, she defintely could and did.

I don't knaw why people here go so hard after W&L. I think theire's a touch of sexism. It doesn't didminish Prince in any way to acknowledge that folks in his band made contributions. That's what bands are about. They are collaborative. Prince was very open about how involved in songwriting they were, to the point that folks like Matt Fink lightly expressed being dissappointed that he was not as involved as they were in songwriting.

The orignial post here is Wendy detailing a story about how Mountains came to be. It shouldn't activate all this butthurt from so called fans. It's super cool when band members share info like this.

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Reply #141 posted 05/13/20 4:27pm

PennyPurple

avatar

JudasLChrist said:

thebanishedone said:

I think that for some people seems cool to downplay Prince as a musician .i also think that Prince used Wendy and lisa more in a "they are my muses" and maybe he thought it gives him certain kind of sophistication.while i do think that Lisa is a very good piano players ,i'm not so sure regarding Wendy's skills as a guitar player.ok she is a compentent rhythm guitar player but as a solo guitar player she was always bellow average.And i think that other musiciams hired them more because their association with Prince than their skills.what Wendy played on other people records is not something a half decent studio guitarist couldn't do better.Wendy did over estemate her influence on Prince.Noo Wendy didn't introduce Prince to jazz and she didn't introduce him to suspended chords.they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time.They got fired cause they started believing their own hype and after all it is proven thay Prince could go on with or without them.regarding Prince camp i find Jesse Johnson amd Morris Day much more talented than Wendy Melvoin.Morris did killer programing of yamaha dx7 on his first solo album and nobody gives him credit for that.And he was much better on his instrument than Wendy ever was. [Edited 5/13/20 14:32pm]



Both of them are great. Miko is a harder funker than Wendy, but wendy Has air and chord imagination. No "Purple Rain" without Wendy's voicing. It would have been a country song, otherwise. That's not to say that Wendy couldn't funk, she defintely could and did.

I don't knaw why people here go so hard after W&L. I think theire's a touch of sexism. It doesn't didminish Prince in any way to acknowledge that folks in his band made contributions. That's what bands are about. They are collaborative. Prince was very open about how involved in songwriting they were, to the point that folks like Matt Fink lightly expressed being dissappointed that he was not as involved as they were in songwriting.

The orignial post here is Wendy detailing a story about how Mountains came to be. It shouldn't activate all this butthurt from so called fans. It's super cool when band members share info like this.

It's not sexism. It's like Banished said, they and others are downplaying things that Prince himself accomplished. It's like the Rev thinks they are the greatest and only band Prince ever had. Prince didn't hire them as a whole, he hired them individually and HE created the The Rev.


We never hear anything out of 3rd Eye Girl, they don't downplay Prince at all. It's only the earlier associates who do. Mainly Wendy and Sheila E.


And the males that try to downplay Prince like Jesse, get the same flak that Wendy and Sheila get here on the Org.

Free Poppy's, Bombsquad, 13, Nero, Mdiver, shanti0608, RDhull. If Glamslam can get a 2nd chance, they should be able to also. 2020=CHANGE
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Reply #142 posted 05/13/20 5:11pm

lavendardrumma
chine

PennyPurple said:

he hired them individually and HE created the The Rev.


We never hear anything out of 3rd Eye Girl, they don't downplay Prince at all. It's only the earlier associates who do. Mainly Wendy and Sheila E.


And the males that try to downplay Prince like Jesse, get the same flak that Wendy and Sheila get here on the Org.


Which is why slighting them is slighting him.


3rd Eye weren't involved in hits or many if any classics, sorry to say. They also aren't talking much yet. Ida has said they jammed on what became songs without knowing it. Nobody is sweating that because they don't find them threatening.

I do think there's something else happening here. People are basically saying she was the Lesbian prop who couldn't play and now lies her ass off and takes credit for Prince's work and it threatens his entire legacy or something. It's laughable, and Jesse never experienced that.

The newest rabbit hole here about Wendy not having technical chops misses the entire point with a song like Mountains.

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Reply #143 posted 05/13/20 5:42pm

slyjackson

RJOrion said:

masaba said:
The first thing my mom told me when she found out that I enjoyed making music with my friends was never give away your ideas for free. Not to your friends not to anybody, even if you're just hanging out or brainstorming, because you never want to be on the losing end of the exact scenario Miko is describing. Only give away what you're willing to lose.
what a coincidence...your mom told me the same thing 😎

What coincidence your grandma told me the same.

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Reply #144 posted 05/13/20 6:45pm

RJOrion

"sexism"??..."lesbian prop"??...LOL


WTF?...good grief, it aint that deep...yall are really reaching now.

so youre just gonna ignore the obvious respect shown for Lisa?

is she not female?

is she not a lesbian?

Wendy's gender and/or sexual preference has nothing to do with anything...she just seems to have occasional delusions of grandeur...thats it and thats that... wtf is a "lesbian prop" and why would anyone (especially Prince) need one?...i suspect there may be some projecting going on...i could be wrong though, as "lesbian prop" is something im quite unfamiliar with
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Reply #145 posted 05/13/20 6:48pm

violetcrush

lavendardrummachine said:

PennyPurple said:

he hired them individually and HE created the The Rev.


We never hear anything out of 3rd Eye Girl, they don't downplay Prince at all. It's only the earlier associates who do. Mainly Wendy and Sheila E.


And the males that try to downplay Prince like Jesse, get the same flak that Wendy and Sheila get here on the Org.


Which is why slighting them is slighting him.


3rd Eye weren't involved in hits or many if any classics, sorry to say. They also aren't talking much yet. Ida has said they jammed on what became songs without knowing it. Nobody is sweating that because they don't find them threatening.

I do think there's something else happening here. People are basically saying she was the Lesbian prop who couldn't play and now lies her ass off and takes credit for Prince's work and it threatens his entire legacy or something. It's laughable, and Jesse never experienced that.

The newest rabbit hole here about Wendy not having technical chops misses the entire point with a song like Mountains.

Spot on lavendar. 3rd Eye girls are good players, but they were Prince's new "project" and less than half Prince's age. Prince had said for a long time that he always wanted an "all girl" band, so he scoured YT and found them. Comparing them to The Revolution is apples and oranges.

*

I also think Wendy's performance of Purple Rain at the tribute should finally shut up most of the naysayers about her not being able to play. She's a great player. You don't have to wail on the guitar to be a great player. I loved how she casually nailed all of the notes on that solo.

*

I agree on Mountains too. It was Wendy and Lisa playing and mixing it up and recording something that Prince loved and wanted to build upon, which became the beautiful Mountains.

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Reply #146 posted 05/13/20 6:56pm

violetcrush

RJOrion said:

"sexism"??..."lesbian prop"??...LOL WTF?...good grief, it aint that deep...yall are really reaching now. so youre just gonna ignore the obvious respect shown for Lisa? is she not female? is she not a lesbian? Wendy's gender and/or sexual preference has nothing to do with anything...she just seems to have occasional delusions of grandeur...thats it and thats that... wtf is a "lesbian prop" and why would anyone (especially Prince) need one?...i suspect there may be some projecting going on...i could be wrong though, as "lesbian prop" is something im quite unfamiliar with

Delusions of granduer?? Okay, sure. Interesting that Lisa is sitting right next to Wendy and contributing to the story of what became Mountains. It's not Wendy speaking and then Lisa shaking her head no and saying that's not how she remembers it.

*

One thing you don't seem to realize is that Wendy would never have been invited to join the band had Prince not believed she was a great player and could also bring something more to the table.

*

Interesting that in 1997 when Chris Rock asked Prince which players he would choose if he could have his "all time greatest band" and two on that list were Wendy and Lisa.

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Reply #147 posted 05/13/20 6:59pm

lavendardrumma
chine

RJOrion said:

"sexism"??..."lesbian prop"??...LOL WTF?...good grief, it aint that deep...yall are really reaching now. so youre just gonna ignore the obvious respect shown for Lisa? is she not female? is she not a lesbian? Wendy's gender and/or sexual preference has nothing to do with anything...she just seems to have occasional delusions of grandeur...thats it and thats that... wtf is a "lesbian prop" and why would anyone (especially Prince) need one?...i suspect there may be some projecting going on...i could be wrong though, as "lesbian prop" is something im quite unfamiliar with


I'm reacting to someone saying "they were too cool white girls who looked good as a part of the look Prince was going for at the time."


That answer your question? I thought you were sensitive to coded language.


I mean, Wendy is one of the only females who shared credits with Prince that fans can't realistically can't think about Prince banging. Far fetched? Okay.... just trying to stretch and help you out, because the reasons ya'll are going in on Wendy aren't holding up with every post.

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Reply #148 posted 05/13/20 7:00pm

RJOrion

violetcrush said:



RJOrion said:


"sexism"??..."lesbian prop"??...LOL WTF?...good grief, it aint that deep...yall are really reaching now. so youre just gonna ignore the obvious respect shown for Lisa? is she not female? is she not a lesbian? Wendy's gender and/or sexual preference has nothing to do with anything...she just seems to have occasional delusions of grandeur...thats it and thats that... wtf is a "lesbian prop" and why would anyone (especially Prince) need one?...i suspect there may be some projecting going on...i could be wrong though, as "lesbian prop" is something im quite unfamiliar with


Delusions of granduer?? Okay, sure. Interesting that Lisa is sitting right next to Wendy and contributing to the story of what became Mountains. It's not Wendy speaking and then Lisa shaking her head no and saying that's not how she remembers it.


*


One thing you don't seem to realize is that Wendy would never have been invited to join the band had Prince not believed she was a great player and could also bring something more to the table.


*


Interesting that in 1997 when Chris Rock asked Prince which players he would choose if he could have his "all time greatest band" and two on that list were Wendy and Lisa.




what difference does it make?...we're still a group, right?
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Reply #149 posted 05/13/20 9:04pm

databank

avatar

If nothing else, I find it quite depressing that after all these years, a relatively insignificant story shared by an associate about the genesis of a song would spark a 5 pages debate about said associate. Everybody's got on opinion about everything, right? Everybody's an expert, right? Everybody was there in P's kitchen to witness the events, right? I don't even know which side of the debate I should be on. I guess that's because I don't even understand why there's a debate in the first place. Would Prince have been Prince without W&L? Obviously. Are W&L respectable musicians regardless of their time with P? Obviously as well. W&L were there, did what they did; P was there, did what he did; who did what, particularly at that time, is OVERdocumented; and more importantly we all enjoyed the results of their collaborative efforts. What is there to argue about exactly? I don't know.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Wendy Melvoin on the origins of "Mountains"