SchlomoThaHomo said:

It's been out there for decades that they wrote the music to Mountains and Sometimes It Snows In April. I think Power Fantastic as well. It's not so far fetched, and Prince could have refuted it at any time.

They didn't write SISIA despite what they want to you to believe. In Prince's memoir it's mentioned in two endnotes that it was consider for For You.

In the endnote for pages 157-158, it says,

"As his debut album went from fantasy to reality, Prince took pleasure in imagining and sketching every facet of the record, from the cover art to the promotional credits to the track list, the last of which was ever evolving. Only three songs listed here (“For You,” “Soft and Wet,” and “Baby”) made it onto the final record. Another iteration of the For You track listing includes “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song that would reappear on his 1986 album Parade."


In the endnote for pages 161, it says,

"A doodle Prince made in his notebook of For You lyrics, circa 1976–77. The notebook also includes an early draft of “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song Prince wouldn’t release for another decade."

That's the same SISIA that reappears on Parade -- absolutely no way Wendy and Lisa helped write it. If he was considering it enough to be on a tentative tracklist, I'm sure it was formed enough as a song that there's probably an early version of the song somewhere in the Vault.

jone70 said:

absolutely no way Wendy and Lisa helped write it. If he was considering it enough to be on a tentative tracklist, I'm sure it was formed enough as a song that there's probably an early version of the song somewhere in the Vault.

One thing being true doesnt mean the other thing isn't true. There is an instrumental called Paisley Park that has no relation to the song Paisley Park, for example.

It doesn't really sound like For You...there's falsetto, but he's singng about Tracy, and there's Lisa's vocal intro stuff. The demo could sound real different. I hope it exists.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

It's been out there for decades that they wrote the music to Mountains and Sometimes It Snows In April. I think Power Fantastic as well. It's not so far fetched, and Prince could have refuted it at any time.

Exactly, but why should we let that in the way of a good old org bitchfest directed at W&L.

jone70 said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

It's been out there for decades that they wrote the music to Mountains and Sometimes It Snows In April. I think Power Fantastic as well. It's not so far fetched, and Prince could have refuted it at any time.

They didn't write SISIA despite what they want to you to believe. In Prince's memoir it's mentioned in two endnotes that it was consider for For You.

In the endnote for pages 157-158, it says,

"As his debut album went from fantasy to reality, Prince took pleasure in imagining and sketching every facet of the record, from the cover art to the promotional credits to the track list, the last of which was ever evolving. Only three songs listed here (“For You,” “Soft and Wet,” and “Baby”) made it onto the final record. Another iteration of the For You track listing includes “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song that would reappear on his 1986 album Parade."


In the endnote for pages 161, it says,

"A doodle Prince made in his notebook of For You lyrics, circa 1976–77. The notebook also includes an early draft of “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song Prince wouldn’t release for another decade."

That's the same SISIA that reappears on Parade -- absolutely no way Wendy and Lisa helped write it. If he was considering it enough to be on a tentative tracklist, I'm sure it was formed enough as a song that there's probably an early version of the song somewhere in the Vault.

Just because he had written a song with that title doesn't mean it was the same as the one he relased ten years later. It could have been completely re-written into an entirely different song. Look at The Max.

-

You read the most incredible unbelievable things here.

Where do people get it from ?

Or, why ?

Why on earth would professional collaborators lie ?

-

Just listen to Prince's music, and leave it with that.

Jees.

-

SchlomoThaHomo said:

jone70 said:

They didn't write SISIA despite what they want to you to believe. In Prince's memoir it's mentioned in two endnotes that it was consider for For You.

In the endnote for pages 157-158, it says,

"As his debut album went from fantasy to reality, Prince took pleasure in imagining and sketching every facet of the record, from the cover art to the promotional credits to the track list, the last of which was ever evolving. Only three songs listed here (“For You,” “Soft and Wet,” and “Baby”) made it onto the final record. Another iteration of the For You track listing includes “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song that would reappear on his 1986 album Parade."


In the endnote for pages 161, it says,

"A doodle Prince made in his notebook of For You lyrics, circa 1976–77. The notebook also includes an early draft of “Sometimes It Snows in April,” a song Prince wouldn’t release for another decade."

That's the same SISIA that reappears on Parade -- absolutely no way Wendy and Lisa helped write it. If he was considering it enough to be on a tentative tracklist, I'm sure it was formed enough as a song that there's probably an early version of the song somewhere in the Vault.

Just because he had written a song with that title doesn't mean it was the same as the one he relased ten years later. It could have been completely re-written into an entirely different song. Look at The Max.

And just because he wrote a song with that title doesn't mean it's not the same song (musically and mostly lyrically) he taught Wendy and Lisa how to play a decade later. The endnotes say it was an early draft of the song that reappeared on Parade. That implies the song is similiar enough identify it as the same song. For every example like The Max, there's an example like Bold Generation/New Power Generation. Like I said, I'm sure there's probably an early version of the song somewhere...

I don't understand why everyone is hellbent on believing what Wendy says is the gospel, when there's evidence casts doubt on that. But this thread is about Mountains so I'll stop trying to point out inconsistencies in her memory about SISIA.

laytonian said:

Y'all forget that Prince credited their contributions during the P&M concerts, especially "that's the entire song" on "Raspberry Beret".

"At one point, he gave recognition to Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman. Ya know… “Wendy?” “Yes, Lisa.” “Is the water warm enough?” “Yes, Lisa.” “Shall we begin?” “Yes, Lisa.” He told a funny story about first meeting Lisa and thinking how she wasn’t going to work out… until he heard her playing something… He told us how the beginnings of Raspberry Beret came about, giving her credit for her part in it."

https://medium.com/@Maia_...d67e02277b

Right. During Prince's first P&M show at PP before he began playing Raspberry Beret he stated he would often let Wendy and Lisa go into the studio and see what music they could come up with.

*

No doubt they did the inital music to Mountains. I'm sure Prince added to it as well - he always did. Look a the song Kiss - he kept the original temp that Mazarati created, and put his falsetto on it.

jone70 said:

The endnotes say it was an early draft of the song that reappeared on Parade. That implies the song is similiar enough identify it as the same song.

Still a lot of room where collaboration may have happened.

The title track For You has some similar flavor, but when you take a listen to the song So Blue, it puts it into perspective.

thank you for posting this Bart

PennyPurple said:

RJOrion said:

"...when John and Mattie were about to have their first child together, Me, Lisa, and Susan Rogers told the couple that they should name the boy Prince Rogers Nelson...when Prince heard this, he just fell out of Mattie's womb.." ~ Wendy Melvoin

Perfect! Wendy and Lisa are so fulla shit!

donnyenglish said:

Milty2 said:

As long as Wendy and Lisa are getting royalty cheques, our collective opinions really dont count. The song is great. One of Prince and the Revolution's best

He gave them songwriting credit, but that apparently is not enough. They have to make it clear (after he died and cannot set the record straight) about exactly how much they contributed to the song and how little he contributed, which makes it suspect. No one doubts that many of his bandmembers contributed to his work. In most cases, Prince always gave more credit than was due. The issue is when people try to marginalize his contribution by embellishing and exagerating about their input. I see a lot of that the last 4 years and it is disappointing, but maybe that is why Prince didn't roll with anyone from the 80's in the last several years of his life.

Fair enough but I'm not sure I agree. Reason being is that once the Revolution was out of the picture in '86 (specifically Wendy and Lisa) I think Prince's music and songwriting sounded vastly different in some areas going forward. It narrowed in my opinion and didn't encompass a lot of scope. He did introduce scope in certain songs like 3 Chains o' Gold and much of Graffitti Bridge but it didn't have the range outside of that. I'm not saying I didnt like that or those songs (I do!) but I believe that W&L had a lot more influence on him than many of us know of.

At the end of the day, only they and related people know. All we as fans have is the music to enjoy and I think that's enough.

Vannormal said:

-

You read the most incredible unbelievable things here.

Where do people get it from ?

Or, why ?

Why on earth would professional collaborators lie ?

-

Just listen to Prince's music, and leave it with that.

Jees.

-

co-sign.

One of my absolute fave Prince songs...has been since first listen.

I think its been pretty much a proven thing that W&L had a huge part in writing the music for this, April, and PF. Not sure why this is even being disputed. But whatev's its a great song. Leave it at that.

Poplife88 said:

Not sure why this is even being disputed.

.

There are famz who deny Prince used samples.

BartVanHemelen said:

Poplife88 said:

Not sure why this is even being disputed.

.

There are famz who deny Prince used samples.

There are even Famz that keep claiming Prince created the 777-9311 beat with Morris adding the hi-hat afterwards or some shit. Even though every owner of a LM-1 has that preset beat on their machine (the beat was made by Tower of Power's David Garibaldi for Roger Linn.)

JorisE73 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

There are famz who deny Prince used samples.

There are even Famz that keep claiming Prince created the 777-9311 beat with Morris adding the hi-hat afterwards or some shit. Even though every owner of a LM-1 has that preset beat on their machine (the beat was made by Tower of Power's David Garibaldi for Roger Linn.)

After all these years I just learned this. I heard Jimmy say Dave programmed the Linn for this song in their SirusXM show on the Prince channel, and I was like, "Huh?!" The way he worded it made it sound like he was a collaborator on the song, which is technically true, but not really.

I wonder what they were doing in London, there were no gigs in London around the time Mountains would have been written, not even one off award ceremonies AFAIK

flipper123 said:

I wonder what they were doing in London, there were no gigs in London around the time Mountains would have been written, not even one off award ceremonies AFAIK

They recorded there a lot during this time (filming for UTCM in France and recording and editing in London)

thebanishedone said:

Anybody who knows and recognise Prince modus operendi can realise that the only thing Wendy and alisa brought 2 the song is that G F C chord change in the verse.everything else including linn drum programing is pure Prince.and maybe Lisa did "did "compose Raspberry Berret but actualy Raspberry Berret is a Buzzcock song ripoff.check out my old thread about ripoffs in Prince music here : https://prince.org/msg/7/457632 [Edited 5/9/20 22:03pm]

Always love this one. A slight similarity in two very different songs, A TOTAL RIPOFF, EVERY NOTE IS UNORIGINAL. By the same logic Are Everything is a rip off of All Day and All of the Night by the Kinks or possibly 1977 by the Clash.

Good to see that I held the same opinion in the previous thread as well

[Edited 5/11/20 8:51am]

SchlomoThaHomo said:

JorisE73 said:

There are even Famz that keep claiming Prince created the 777-9311 beat with Morris adding the hi-hat afterwards or some shit. Even though every owner of a LM-1 has that preset beat on their machine (the beat was made by Tower of Power's David Garibaldi for Roger Linn.)

After all these years I just learned this. I heard Jimmy say Dave programmed the Linn for this song in their SirusXM show on the Prince channel, and I was like, "Huh?!" The way he worded it made it sound like he was a collaborator on the song, which is technically true, but not really.

You know, people keep saying this is a preset but, unless something has changed recently, no one has actually hauled out a LM-1, pressed play on the preset,and stuck the beat on youtube yet.

They're never specific on how much of the beat is the preset either considering there's a lot of stuff that comes in as the song goes along.

OperatingThetan said:

Gradually, they will have written the music to every Prince and the Revolution song and Prince will be reduced to a mere lyricist. I'm not doubting their contributions. Only the increased importance they accord themselves on every retelling. * [Edited 5/8/20 14:25pm] [Edited 5/8/20 14:26pm] [Edited 5/8/20 14:26pm]

I do agree..can't help but think they keep inching up their influence and contributions to his work. However, we've all heard this for years that Mountains, Sometimes It Snows etc were their songs that he added to. I don't doubt that Wendy and Lisa contributed a lot and if you agree, you have to respect that they hae stayed silent for decades and only now are shedding some light onto their actual input. It's not like they are saying that they taught Prince the guitar solo to Purple Rain!! Those of us that know his work know that he had new people around for inspiration. He drew a lot from these two ladies.

No one will ever confuse things and believe W&L were more important to Prince than he was to them. You just need to listen to any of their own albums to know that he was the x factor missing from their stuff. I include Fruit at the Bottom which was just superb.

Give the ladies a break...

donnyenglish said:

donnyenglish said:

I haven't heard Blackwell, Cassie, Renato, Mike Scott, Gouche, MonoNeon, etc. lying about writing songs.

Probably because nobody cares who wrote the music to N.E.W.S. or Everywhere off Rainbow Children. Most of them have stories of Prince telling them to just play or do what you do. They just can't point to his biggest songs because they were brought in as session players, and everyone knows it. Some of those names weren't major contributors to Prince's body of work, and one of them might not have recorded with Prince at all.

BalladofPeterParker said:

PennyPurple said:

Perfect! Wendy and Lisa are so fulla shit!

NOPE. Prince himself confirmed - at his first P&M show - that Wendy and Lisa would often write music in the studio for him.

lavendardrummachine said:

donnyenglish said:

I haven't heard Blackwell, Cassie, Renato, Mike Scott, Gouche, MonoNeon, etc. lying about writing songs.

Probably because nobody cares who wrote the music to N.E.W.S. or Everywhere off Rainbow Children. Most of them have stories of Prince telling them to just play or do what you do. They just can't point to his biggest songs because they were brought in as session players, and everyone knows it. Some of those names weren't major contributors to Prince's body of work, and one of them might not have recorded with Prince at all.

Wait....stop the presses!!! lavendardrummachine and I agree on something!!

Listening to Wendy and Lisa's Purple Playlist on Sirius XM. They are playing Mountains as their last song pick, and telling the story about first recording the music at the London studio with Susan Rogers. Lisa also confirmed that she had always played the same melody on the piano as a younger kid, and she decided to play it again for that recording.

*

So, Susan Rogers can confirm the event for any of those who don't believe them. Completely ridiculous that people would think they are lying about it though.

The best thing about Mountains is the lyrics, Prince vocals, and the breakdown near the end which Prince wrote anyway. The basis of the music is that driving groove which Prince could do in his sleep. As far as I'm concern he is the reason the song is great. Just listen to David Z and Mazarati's version of Kiss. The music is there but its dull and plodding without Prince's touch. You could say the same for Wendy and Lisa's version of Our Destiny. So much of what makes his music work is not about melody or chords, but about the energy and emotion he brings to his performance of them.

[Edited 5/11/20 16:37pm]

lrn36 said:

The best thing about Mountains is the lyrics, Prince vocals, and the breakdown near the end which Prince wrote anyway. The basis of the music is that driving groove which Prince could do in his sleep. As far as I'm concern he is the reason the song is great. Just listen to David Z and Mazarati's version of Kiss. The music is there but its dull and plodding without Prince's touch. You could say the same for Wendy and Lisa's version of Our Destiny. So much of what makes his music work is not about melody or chords, but about the energy and emotion he brings to his performance of them.

[Edited 5/11/20 16:37pm]

No question the lyrics of Mountains are an integral part of the song, but it's the entire band that makes the song - not just Prince. Very different than Kiss. Kiss was a Prince solo - except for Wendy's guitar lick. Remember too - everyone involved with Kiss has said Prince's original version was like a slow country song before he gave it to David Z and the Mazarati guys. They put the funk on that track. Then Prince stepped it up with his falsetto and minimizing the instrumental.