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Reply #510 posted 07/07/20 6:32am

RJOrion

Oaktree & Fishnet both got plenty audio and video airplay...whether they are "hits" is debateable...how about W&L?...any of their allegedly great songs or videos that were in rotation to debate about?
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Reply #511 posted 07/07/20 6:40am

jaawwnn

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Morris Days albums are remembered by and listened to no one except Prince fans.

Adam Ant album was a commercial failure (great album though), Cymone songs were not "moderate" hits at all (great songs though), at best regional hits.

Jesse Johnson had some moderate hits that are now forgotten (although they're great), I had forgotten his production work though i'll give you that, he has one whole song on a successful Paula Abdul album.

Wendy & Lisa had a minor hit with Waterfall over in UK/Europe, I still occasionally hear it out and about, it's had a bit of a long tail. They've also had lots of very successful composer work.

I'll leave you to it, it's clear to me that your "evidence" is based on nothing bar your own personal interpretation of success. I don't pretend W&L were a commercially successful pop act because they weren't, you can pretend that's a reflection on worthiness all you like.




[Edited 7/7/20 6:46am]

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Reply #512 posted 07/07/20 11:28am

ChocolateBox31
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RJOrion said:

jaawwnn said:

Morris Day has had as many solo hits as Wendy & Lisa. i.e. none. (Fishnet?? Gimme a break, didn't even make the top 20. No one knows it. it has scraped 100 thousand plays on Spotify, Waterfall by Wendy & Lisa has over a million)

Jesse Johnson is unknown outside of Prince obsessives. His very, very minor hits are long forgotten.

Andre Cymone has one album of importance to his name and it's by Jody Watley.


Now, personally I think all the above have a load of great albums but by your standards of success all they wrote was disposable...a couple listens, maybe a nice idea here and there but no songs that stuck, or had any lasting replay value.

[Edited 7/7/20 5:13am]

morris day first 2 albums reached #7 R& B charts jesse johnson has produced songs for janet jackson, paula abdul and cheryl lynn.."Crazay" was #2 R&B.."Lovestruck" was #4 R&B..lp jesse johnson revue #8 R&B... Andre Cymone produced songs for Jodi Watley and adam Ant, and Cymone had moderate hits with "Kellys Eyes", "What Are We Doing Here?" and "Survivin In The 80s"...W&L?... nothing ...still

Jesse Johnson also wrote a hit classic for the The Five Heartbeats soundtrack called "Nights Like This" that went ALL the way to Number#7 on the rnb charts and #24 on the Billboard Hot 100. It's easily my favorite by him. Jesse also wrote hit songs for Tamara & The Seen(Margie Cox) called Everybody Dance" went all the way to No 24 on the Billboard Hot 100 , No,3 on the R&B Singles chart , & No 17 on the Dance charts. Another hit single from the debut self titled classic album "Affection" went to No.19 on the RNB charts.

You're HIGHLY inderestimating Jesse's songwriting ability. Not to mention the funky "Undress me" he wrote for Vanity that's easily her best vocal performance that even her ex Prince(r.i.p.) couldn't get out of her.

"4 all of us, life is death without adventure,& adventure only comes 2 those who are willing 2 b daring & take chances."prince 1985
"eye feel that we're on the brink of something. It is going 2 B strict and wild and pretty" prince 1986
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Reply #513 posted 07/07/20 11:36am

RJOrion

jaawwnn said:

Morris Days albums are remembered by and listened to no one except Prince fans.

Adam Ant album was a commercial failure (great album though), Cymone songs were not "moderate" hits at all (great songs though), at best regional hits.

Jesse Johnson had some moderate hits that are now forgotten (although they're great), I had forgotten his production work though i'll give you that, he has one whole song on a successful Paula Abdul album.

Wendy & Lisa had a minor hit with Waterfall over in UK/Europe, I still occasionally hear it out and about, it's had a bit of a long tail. They've also had lots of very successful composer work.

I'll leave you to it, it's clear to me that your "evidence" is based on nothing bar your own personal interpretation of success. I don't pretend W&L were a commercially successful pop act because they weren't, you can pretend that's a reflection on worthiness all you like.





[Edited 7/7/20 6:46am]



youre not making sense and youre contradicting yourself...but ill let you finish... besides.. google Waterfall - song...and TLC pops up everywhere...LMAO...poor Wendy & Lisa....or maybe they secretly wrote that one too
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Reply #514 posted 07/07/20 11:39am

mediumdry

Yeah, Waterfall is still regularly played on the radio, I hear it every so often. Not nearly their best song though.

.

Sure, give me grief for my tastes, but I regularly play W&L music, especially the album Eroica, but at times Fruit At The Bottom and their later girlbros albums. I do also still listen to Jesse's music, especially his first album and Free World. His other stuff (apart from that Hendrix/Blues album he did) doesn't hold up much.

.

Morris's output was pretty bad at the time and hasn't aged well, although Oak Tree and Fishnet were minor hits. (I never hear those on the radio anymore)

.

Andre Cymone.... still don't know what to think. I like Survivin' In The 80s, although it's a bit of a guilty pleasure because of the cheesiness. His work is hit and miss mostly for me. It seems to try too hard, dunno, can't put my finger on it.

.

As far as staying power, W&L songs I sometimes hear, Jam&Lewis less (although I like some of their work, it gets very formulaic if you listen to much though, Change of Heart and Just Be Good To Me, for instance, two of their better tracks, are almost interchangeable). Jesse and other associates never got any radioplay to begin with, so that's a nonstarter.

.

I guess if you have made your mind up that they aren't good and their music isn't much, every time people keep mentioning songs, you just dismiss them based on sales numbers. As far as a career in the music industry goes, apart from Jam&Lewis, they had a much higher profile for longer than any of the other associates. Most had one or two albums on a major label and were dropped, W&L had three and were recording a fourth that they weren't happy with and they stepped away from it, as opposed to being paid to not record a second album, like TC Ellis. Even Sheila E's output (probably the highest profile associate) is much more obscure.

.

Some associates are fairly in-demand session players. If you look at the list of artists W&L have played for on albums, it's fairly high profile and extensive as well.

.

Then there's their tv and movie scoring...

.

Their career stands apart from any other associates. Try to deny it or belittle it all you want. They had a huge influence on Prince when they were with him (and contributed to a lot of tracks) and they had an impressive career after they split ways with Prince. Nothing you can say or do will detract from it.

.

As to Sheila E, I do feel she seems to be trying to increase her profile to be the defacto spokesperson for everything Prince. I tend to ignore that.

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #515 posted 07/07/20 11:46am

ChocolateBox31
21

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jaawwnn said:

Morris Days albums are remembered by and listened to no one except Prince fans.

Adam Ant album was a commercial failure (great album though), Cymone songs were not "moderate" hits at all (great songs though), at best regional hits.

Jesse Johnson had some moderate hits that are now forgotten (although they're great), I had forgotten his production work though i'll give you that, he has one whole song on a successful Paula Abdul album.

Wendy & Lisa had a minor hit with Waterfall over in UK/Europe, I still occasionally hear it out and about, it's had a bit of a long tail. They've also had lots of very successful composer work.

I'll leave you to it, it's clear to me that your "evidence" is based on nothing bar your own personal interpretation of success. I don't pretend W&L were a commercially successful pop act because they weren't, you can pretend that's a reflection on worthiness all you like.




[Edited 7/7/20 6:46am]

attachFull1710825

Snoop is not a Prince(r.i.p.) fan but a HUGE Morris fan and has produced his albums. In fact Morris Day & The Time have MANY fans that don't like Prince(r.i.p.) and have actually been shocked when found out that Prince(r.i.p.) was the brains behind ALL there hits & image.

"4 all of us, life is death without adventure,& adventure only comes 2 those who are willing 2 b daring & take chances."prince 1985
"eye feel that we're on the brink of something. It is going 2 B strict and wild and pretty" prince 1986
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Reply #516 posted 07/07/20 11:49am

RJOrion

youre denying facts if you say Jesse Johnson hardly got any airplay...Be Your Man, Crazay, and I Want My Girl ALL got regular radio airplay and club spins... R&B Stations Matter.
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Reply #517 posted 07/07/20 12:00pm

rednblue

RJOrion said:

Mountains is a great song. 17 page thread, and still no one has yet to produce proof of a great song by Wendy & Lisa, without Prince... not just a song a few of you W&L diehards like... but a widely accepted and respected great song...like, "Mountains"... thats because they have none...no hits...no underground hits...no club classics...no street classics...no radio songs, hits or otherwise...no sold out, or critically acclaimed tours... no production accolades from working with other artists...they had faded into musical oblivion until Prince died... because their music (and act/performance) without Prince is trash...not in the obscence, dumpster smelling sense of the word...but in the sense that W&L made music that was disposable...a couple listens, maybe a nice idea here and there but no songs that stuck, or had any lasting replay value... Andre Cymone had a few great songs without Prince Jimmy Jam & Terry lewis have produced 100s of great songs without Prince. Jesse Johnson had a few great songs without Prince Morris Day had a couple of good songs without Prince thats it...Wendy, Lisa and everyone else (excluding Larry Graham) that played with and for Prince, was easily replaceable and disposable, as were their musical and theatrical contributions...and they for the most part have been gracious and humble since Prince's passing....Wendy Melvoin and her militia, and Sheila E. have overstated their importance and continue to have delusions of grandeur [Edited 7/7/20 4:25am]

Just like I said way back near the start of this (as you note, 17-page) thread, some on here have a problem with Wendy Melvoin's personality.

I suggested, back then, that those people could start a thread on that.

It isn't news to anyone that people have different taste in music and personalities. You yourself were wondering, pages ago, why people can't just accept the obvious reality that people have different tastes, rather than get "all up on their feelings" about it.

Again, as said way back in those 17 pages, anyone's feeling ("too brash," "too much ego," "too loud," and on and on) about Wendy Melvoin's personality is not the topic of this "origins of 'Mountains' " thread.

People from across Prince eras (just one example starting in early 90's: stories from Rosie Gaines and Michael Bland) have shared experiences of collaboration in the origins and early development of songs.

Turning into a broken record here, but why don't fans who want to talk about personality start threads on that topic? It seems like they have a hard time coping with the idea that not everyone shares their opinions on a personality, so instead of starting such threads, they react by commenting here.

[Edited 7/7/20 12:06pm]


Editing to add:

I can't reply to this thread right now, but you responded to above comment by asking why don't I start a different thread?

Why would I need a different thread? I'm not the one crashing this "origins of 'Mountains'" thread with off-topic comments (on the subject of Wendy's personality, guitar chops, etc.) that need a different thread home.


An example is the bolded above. Will you stop now with the off-topic comments, to include those of the ilk of your (aside from"LOL... word") first comment? The one (way back on page 1 of this thread) where you mocked Wendy's personality this with this comment:

""...when John and Mattie were about to have their first child together, Me, Lisa, and Susan Rogers told the couple that they should name the boy Prince Rogers Nelson...when Prince heard this, he just fell out of Mattie's womb.."

~ Wendy Melvoin"

If you weren't having trouble coping with the fact that not everyone has the same taste in personality as you do, you wouldn't be posting these off-topic comments on personality. Will you stop now with the off-topic comments, like the above attempt to mock Wendy's personality? This thread isn't about personality or guitar chops.

[Edited 7/7/20 13:37pm]

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Reply #518 posted 07/07/20 12:10pm

RJOrion

rednblue said:



RJOrion said:


Mountains is a great song. 17 page thread, and still no one has yet to produce proof of a great song by Wendy & Lisa, without Prince... not just a song a few of you W&L diehards like... but a widely accepted and respected great song...like, "Mountains"... thats because they have none...no hits...no underground hits...no club classics...no street classics...no radio songs, hits or otherwise...no sold out, or critically acclaimed tours... no production accolades from working with other artists...they had faded into musical oblivion until Prince died... because their music (and act/performance) without Prince is trash...not in the obscence, dumpster smelling sense of the word...but in the sense that W&L made music that was disposable...a couple listens, maybe a nice idea here and there but no songs that stuck, or had any lasting replay value... Andre Cymone had a few great songs without Prince Jimmy Jam & Terry lewis have produced 100s of great songs without Prince. Jesse Johnson had a few great songs without Prince Morris Day had a couple of good songs without Prince thats it...Wendy, Lisa and everyone else (excluding Larry Graham) that played with and for Prince, was easily replaceable and disposable, as were their musical and theatrical contributions...and they for the most part have been gracious and humble since Prince's passing....Wendy Melvoin and her militia, and Sheila E. have overstated their importance and continue to have delusions of grandeur [Edited 7/7/20 4:25am]

Just like I said way back near the start of this (as you note, 17-page) thread, some on here have a problem with Wendy Melvoin's personality.

I suggested, back then, that those people could start a thread on that.

It isn't news to anyone that people have different taste in music and personalities. You yourself were wondering, pages ago, why people can't just accept the obvious reality that people have different tastes, rather than get "all up on their feelings" about it.

Again, as said way back in those 17 pages, anyone's feeling ("too brash," "too much ego," "too loud," and on and on) about Wendy Melvoin's personality is not the topic of this "origins of 'Mountains' " thread.

People from across Prince eras (e.g. Rosie Gaines and Michael Bland) have shared experiences of collaboration in the origins and early development of songs.

Turning into a broken record here, but why don't fans who want to talk about personality start threads on that topic? It seems like they have a hard time coping with the idea that not everyone shares their opinions on a personality, so instead of starting such threads, they react by commenting here.

[Edited 7/7/20 12:04pm]




im not interested in starting a thread about wendy or lisa...or their "personalities"...this thread was MORE than enough attention for them.. why dont you do it, if you feel someone really cares? ...
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Reply #519 posted 07/07/20 12:18pm

sexton

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RJOrion said:

Mountains is a great song.

17 page thread, and still no one has yet to produce proof of a great song by Wendy & Lisa, without Prince... not just a song a few of you W&L diehards like... but a widely accepted and respected great song...like, "Mountains"... thats because they have none...no hits...no underground hits...no club classics...no street classics...no radio songs, hits or otherwise...no sold out, or critically acclaimed tours... no production accolades from working with other artists...they had faded into musical oblivion until Prince died... because their music (and act/performance) without Prince is trash...not in the obscence, dumpster smelling sense of the word...but in the sense that W&L made music that was disposable...a couple listens, maybe a nice idea here and there but no songs that stuck, or had any lasting replay value...

Andre Cymone had a few great songs without Prince

Jimmy Jam & Terry lewis have produced 100s of great songs without Prince.

Jesse Johnson had a few great songs without Prince

Morris Day had a couple of good songs without Prince

thats it...Wendy, Lisa and everyone else (excluding Larry Graham) that played with and for Prince, was easily replaceable and disposable, as were their musical and theatrical contributions...and they for the most part have been gracious and humble since Prince's passing....Wendy Melvoin and her militia, and Sheila E. have overstated their importance and continue to have delusions of grandeur


The premise that chart hits and units moved are the ultimate barometers of what is good music is completely false of course. Success back in the 80s was in the hands of the artists' labels and resulted from how much those labels forced their artists onto radio stations and into stores. Wendy and Lisa's music didn't fit into any neat box their label could understand and that's a big reason why their hits and sales don't measure up to their contemporaries. When Wendy & Lisa worked outside that model later in their career, their music was rightfully acknowledged with awards.

And if you really want to talk about chart hits, "Waterfall" and "The Closing of the Year" were two moderate hits on the U.S. Hot 100 peaking in the top 60--much higher than any André Cymone song under his own name. And "Are You My Baby" was a top 30 hit on the R&B charts--again much higher than any André Cymone single not written by Prince.


[Edited 7/7/20 12:42pm]

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